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(h/t Heather)

The first (and likely only) debate between Barbara Boxer and Carly Fiorina took place tonight. From the first question to the last closing statements, Boxer was fully in control. Despite a format that was difficult -- timed responses and rebuttals -- Fiorina could not escape her past record at the helm of Hewlett-Packard, or her tired Republican ideas. One of the finest moments came with the first question to Fiorina about opposition to the small business jobs bill and teachers bill. Here it is:

How do you justify immediate help for the wealthiest Americans but not for average Californians who might be out of a job and listening to this debate tonight?

Fiorina's response is predictable and rambly. The one thing she did well all night was deflect the actual question asked of her.

FIORINA: Well, you know I think first we need to start by describing what the 2001/2003 tax cuts really were -- tax cuts that are going to expire in January. The vast majority of that tax relief went to middle class Americans and in fact, if those tax cuts are not extended, the average California family will pay up to $1600 more in taxes. It's also true that small business owners in particular are struggling under the weight of businesses.

Senator Boxer has voted against small business tax relief each and every time. The death tax will skyrocket to 55% on January 1st. We have 88,000 farms in this great state, most of them family-owned.

And here comes the Fiorina zingy special....

To create jobs, we need to make sure that in particular, our small businesses, our family-owned businesses, our innovators and our entrepreneurs are freed from strangling regulation and freed from taxation.

Then the gloomy-doomy description of our lives. So miserable...she did this all night.

I think in the middle of a terrible recession...this is the worst economic crisis since 1979 and since 1929 in this state. Just think about it. We have 12 metropolitan areas with unemployment above 15%. We have 23 counties with unemployment above 15%. And meanwhile in the last 20 months, the federal government spending has increased 10% each year, and federal government employees have increased 14.5% over the last 2 years.

At this point, I'm thinking to myself, thank GOD Federal spending has increased 10%. It wasn't nearly enough, for sure, but if it hadn't, California unemployment rates would likely have been closer to 20%. Then Boxer responds. While I'm not certain where she comes out of the gate with the teachers' bill, it did drive home her point.

BOXER: I'd like to go back to the question, because it's very important. We had 16,500 teachers plus get pink slips in the mail. They were not going to be in the classroom when our children are there. What's more important than our children? You know, I'm a product of public schools, 95% of our people go to public schools -- the kids go to public schools.

This was a bill that was paid for. Do you know that my opponent actually called that bill -- this bill where we saved these teacher jobs -- she called the bill a disgrace. She called it disgraceful. Now I'll tell you why I don't think she likes it, because we paid for that bill...

[zinger coming up]

...it was deficit neutral because we paid for it by stopping some tax breaks for companies who ship jobs overseas. So every time you really get past the surface, you see my opponent fighting for the billionaires, the millionaires, for the companies who ship jobs overseas. She even opposes the small business legislation that most everybody supports that would give tax breaks to small business.

And so it went, for the entire debate. Fiorina could not escape the fact that she laid off 30,000 employees while at HP's helm and sent those jobs to China. Not only couldn't she escape it, she actually tried to make a point from it about how the US should be more like China, by giving giant tax incentives and preferences to corporations. At one point, I observed that Carly Fiorina wants the US to be China.

And they say it's Democrats who are commie pinkos.

Other highlights from the debate: Carly Fiorina believes Roe v. Wade should be overturned because it's a states' rights issue, but Prop8 was the act of an activist judge and should become a federal issue. She would not take a position on Prop 23, the oil company collective effort to turn back California's greenhouse gas bill, except to adopt the Republican talking points about it being a job-killing bill. Boxer hit back hard on that last one, saying that if Fiorina couldn't find a way to take a position on Prop 23, she really didn't have any business representing California, since Prop 23 would undo the green industries beginning to take hold in California.

Overall, Boxer had control from start to finish, even when the questions were stupid. Both received a couple of those, hand-picked from video uploads by the debate moderators.

It really just comes to this: Carly Fiorina mismanaged HP, and while she was at the helm, their product quality and corporate reputation went from sterling to mediocre at best. She had no problem sending 30,000 jobs overseas in one of the largest layoffs in the history of California, and as Boxer pointed out, she still walked away with a $22 million golden parachute after driving the value of HP stock down to less than 50% of what it was when she stepped in.

Barbara Boxer should run away with this election. She's been a faithful and responsive representative for Californians. No matter how much Fiorina outspends her, there's no reason to elect someone who wants to take us back to the middle of the last century and beyond.

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45 Comments
thx11380's picture

What are the poll numbers looking like. Haven't seen anything lately but last one I saw showed Boxer slightly ahead which is a good thing for an encumbent in this environment.

karoli's picture

...but I think they're back to being even again.

Pete the Liberal's picture

How bout some real debates?

Where they have discussions with each other? They dont even look at each other. I want them to engage each other and talk to each other. She didnt even bring up the HP sending 30,000 jobs to china. This blog brought it up.

Real debates would bring out the real man forward. People can see bullshit. Actually tea party tards live in some fantasy land so they cant.

My point is, if she was permitted to really go at her, instead of this censored debate people could see through the bs.

nodrama's picture

Boxer was totally in control, the best I've seen her. Sometimes she's a little shrill, but she devastated Fiorina by putting Fiorina's terrible record at HP in perspective. She was kind enough not to mention that Fiorina teed off the the board and got fired.

Go Barbara!!!!

Pete the Liberal's picture

Thats the problem with democrats. They are all p$@#$#@

Republicans arent kind enough.

Do you remember,
Death panels
Death tax
NYC Mosque
Immigration
Shirley Shirod
Acorn
Whatever else they have made a big deal of this year.

How bout democrats show some balls. They wouldnt get there asses kicked as much.

yellowdogD's picture

If memory serves me, she's lucky she didn't land her ass in jail. A little matter of illegally wiretapping board members or company execs. How she can even be close in polls is beyond me.

thx11380's picture

Usually it's about the creme rising to the top but in Fiorina's case it's the shit floating to the surface.

Liberal AND Proud's picture

I see no discernible difference between the candidates. Their contributors are the same. They're motivations are the same.

Fiorina is simply a political amateur, that's why she'll lose.


"Anyone that makes less than $150K in this country, has no business voting Republican."

ron's picture

that you have at least a little bit of a positive attitude.

Liberal AND Proud's picture

Oh, in elections where a political novice is going against an incumbent pro, unless the incumbent is SO weakened (Boxer was not....Harry Reid IS), it's no contest.


"Anyone that makes less than $150K in this country, has no business voting Republican."

Liberal AND Proud's picture

Your precious Boxer will win, and proceed to do exactly what she needs to do...go back to sucking corporate dick...to keep the money flowing.


"Anyone that makes less than $150K in this country, has no business voting Republican."

ron's picture

in her election so she really isn't precious to me.

roxsteady's picture

Because the only good Republican is the one who DOESN'T get elected!

thx11380's picture

One wants the shifter in D, the other in R. Big difference!!!!!!!!!

Liberal AND Proud's picture

Unfortunately, the Democrats keep it in "N".


"Anyone that makes less than $150K in this country, has no business voting Republican."

Geronimo.'s picture

You could almost say the same for Boxer and her other friends in the Democratic Party:

"She fights for billionaires and corporations that outsource jobs"

Boxer also fights for torturers right not to be prosecuted, the shielding of the Bush administration from inquiry, the wars, the Patriot Act, Election Fraud, etc.

She is no good and needs to be replaced in my opinion, but she is a lot better than Fiorina!!!


"Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people." ~ Eleanor Roosevelt

ysbaddaden's picture
)O(

May the Source Be With You...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3FdFf7_yUVc


Diabolus est Deus Inversus

MountainMan23's picture

The war between the People and the Corporations is Global.


Democracy is too important to be entrusted to politicians.
Rise Up!
Protest!

moraltrumpslegal's picture
roxsteady's picture

I'd still rather stick a pencil in my than EVER vote for a Republican!

thx11380's picture

I would if they were moderate enough and had resonable ideas. In other words, I would NEVER vote for a Republican.

Liberal AND Proud's picture

I voted for John Anderson in 1980, and there was no way I was voting for Reagan.

I liked Jimmy Carter and still do, but he and his team were very much like the present field of Democrats. Far too pragmatic, to the point of weakness.

Mondale/Ferraro was even worse, but I held my nose and voted since there was no viable third party candidate.

Now...I just go to the movies.


"Anyone that makes less than $150K in this country, has no business voting Republican."

NavSpecWarVet's picture

In the San Diego Union there are a lot of letters to the editor from former HP employees excoriating Fiorina. A lot of them are self identified republicans that say they will vote for Boxer. They say that they were middle class working folks who lost their jobs and a lot more thanks to Fiorina's idiocy. Meg Whitman is another one in the same mold - paid to go away after wrecking the company. I'd be interested to know if Fiorina has been like Whitman, a nonvoter, disinterested up unitl now.

Tax the Rich's picture

That's just what we need according to tea baggers; a government run like a company by CEO's. You know, like CEO's Bush and Cheney.

I told them that the country was - and is, being run like a company. Everyone is unemployed or struggling to survive on less, while the CEO's who ran the company into the ground after stealing everything that wasn't bolted down walked away 10,000 times richer.

Isn't it great when a country is run like a corporation?


Rush Limbaugh is what a smart person thinks a stupid bigot sounds like.

roxsteady's picture

Anyone who votes for a Republican is an idiot! Whatever you think about the Dems, the Republicans don't give a damn about you unless you're wealthy. Fiorina should get her ass crushed in California. The last thing any of us needs in the Senate is another solid NO VOTE on anything that can improve the lives of others. It's that simple. Ever Dem voter should get their ass out and vote in November if for no other reason than to see the "Beltway Wisdom" shoved back down the throats of the idiots who keep telling us that the Dems are doomed! Don't you want to see the media with that same look on it's face that the audience had on theirs in the original mover "The Producers" when the Springtime for Hitler number was performed? I know I do!

Liberal AND Proud's picture

Debates are boring. Put the candidates in the Octagon.


"Anyone that makes less than $150K in this country, has no business voting Republican."

MM1717's picture

This is what passes for debate these days. Does Fiorina actually expect anyone to believe that "The vast majority of that (2001-2003) tax relief went to middle class Americans? I mean, do these people have no shame? They just get up there, on camera and straight up lie about who benefited from the Bush tax cuts?


Mateo

Liberal AND Proud's picture

The media don't fact check. The public is ignorant.

That's why American politics is a joke.


"Anyone that makes less than $150K in this country, has no business voting Republican."

AK23's picture

and Carly got pissed when Boxer brought up how Carly got fired from HP and shipped off jobs. Carly said that she would vote to overturn Roe v Wade if given the opportunity and I was like, "hell no" that was another confirmation for me that she should be nowhere near the Senate. I never knew that she was such a far right-winger til she ran for office, wow.

Part of me hopes that all of these tea-baggers actually win so that the sheep that voted for them have to suffer and deal with the consequences of being screwed over by their fellow "patriots". But then again, we are all in it together so we would all be effected unfortunately.

Liberal AND Proud's picture

Carly Fiorina was the Treasurer for the Rebel/MooseMom GOP ticket.

That alone should have told you something.


"Anyone that makes less than $150K in this country, has no business voting Republican."

Shadowgm's picture

You mean corrupt and wallowing in graft and kickbacks?

Liberal AND Proud's picture

I think she means...manufacturing electronics and other goods at slave wages, but your answer fits too.


"Anyone that makes less than $150K in this country, has no business voting Republican."

Rich H's picture

this nation in innovation, if Whitman and Fiorina win we can kiss that all goodbye. It'll be bad news for CA and the rest of the country.

Mugsy's picture

That response of Fiorina's: "majority of tax cuts went to the middle class", "family farms affected by the Estate (Death) Tax" and "the worst economy since 1979"???

I was expecting Boxer to blast her for all that nonsense, but instead focused on "teachers"? :(


* There are two types of Republicans: millionaires and suckers.
"Mugsy's Rap Sheet": Recording history for those who seek to rewrite it.

Liberal AND Proud's picture

Barbara must be careful not to enrage her corporate masters.


"Anyone that makes less than $150K in this country, has no business voting Republican."

It must be some Republican talking point, but on every website where Democratic candidates are discussed, especially where one is clearly outstanding in his or her record, like Boxer, there's always some schlemiel who paints both with the 'they're for the corporations' brush.

Anyone who hadn't had to deal with corporations in the climate brought on by Reagan wouldn't even be in Washington. Boxer has despite this persisted in supported good programs and ideas, especially on energy.

Do we really want more failed CEOs who can't get another corporate job because they screwed theirs up so badly trying run our states and federal government? Why aren't the Bobbsie twins, Carly and Meg still on the corporate ladder raking in the money? Well Fiorina was fired, and Whitman wasn't the best at her job.

So they think of governing as a lesser job with lesser people for their constituency?


MyMy

ghostrider's picture

I think Senator Boxer will take this one easy. The real question is will the teabag nominees Miller, Paul, Engle and Rubio win. I think it's possible that the Dems can pick up some seats in the Senate even losing Arkansas and Delaware.

walt kovacs's picture

most farms are corporately owned....and she knows that

her hp tenure is enough for people not to vote for her

FreeDUMB's picture

She tries to exude this air of confidence but it is all a ruse. It is nothing but the same invalidated conventional right wing talking points.

FreeDUMB's picture

Lie FASTER than you can be corrected.

mudshark's picture

I think people need to check On the Issues.org or ,com or whatever it is. Under Boxer. Then check Fiorina out. I posted a link to a poll that was dated aug 24th 2010 yesterday. Fiorina-44. Boxer-49. +5 for Boxer.
I'd post the links, but I'm not on my computer.
adios folks.


What is your conceptual, continuity?

Winski's picture

So is the Swag-Hag charging $10,000 a head for her "How to avoid any questions from anybody" seminar??? Did Carly pay her own way to Wasilla??

WHAT clowns....

mnich13's picture

"From the first question to the last closing statements, Boxer was fully in control."

That's strange. I was tuned in to the SF Bay Area's Uber-Reich-Wing station, KSFO, for a few moments this morning, and heard Brian Sussman characterize the debate in a completely different manner.

He said that during the debate, Fiorina was offering real solutions to solve California's woes (or something along those lines) while Boxer did nothing but come up with the same old tired, left-wing rhetoric.

I wonder what really happened. I guess I'll never know.

bamboozled's picture

That they are happy to promote the outsourcing of American jobs to increase profits, regardless of the treatment of those employees (read about Tom Delay and the Mariana Islands).

Isn't it ironic that Carly talks about helping average people and small businesses, but nothing hurts jobs, small businesses and local economies more than sending jobs abroad.

Economics 101: When people are paid well at home, more money gets spent at home.

merkin's picture

The old "lose the family farm death tax" line...

Ok, whatever

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