CNN Sacrifices 20-year Employee to Right-Wing Noise
After 20 years working for CNN, Senior Mideast Affairs editor Octavia Nasr is leaving. Why? Because she dared to express sadness at the passing of Hezbollah leader Sayyed Mohammed Hussein Fadlallah, stirring all sorts of anger from the right.
Evidently, if you're CNN, it's perfectly fine to hire commentators who refer to a US Supreme Court justice as a "goat f@$king child molester", but God forbid an emotional, somewhat easily misinterpreted tweet should be granted similar mercy.
CNN's internal memo (according to Mediaite) dismisses her with this terse explanation:
I had a conversation with Octavia this morning and I want to share with you that we have decided that she will be leaving the company. As you know, her tweet over the weekend created a wide reaction. As she has stated in her blog on CNN.com, she fully accepts that she should not have made such a simplistic comment without any context whatsoever. However, at this point, we believe that her credibility in her position as senior editor for Middle Eastern affairs has been compromised going forward.
In other words, she didn't carry the requisite press bias toward Israel?
Her original tweet (now apparently deleted) was this:
“Sad to hear of the passing of Sayyed Mohammed Hussein Fadlallah… One of Hezbollah’s giants I respect a lot.”
Yesterday she posted a clarification on her blog.
Here's what I should have conveyed more fully:
I used the words "respect" and "sad" because to me as a Middle Eastern woman, Fadlallah took a contrarian and pioneering stand among Shia clerics on woman's rights. He called for the abolition of the tribal system of "honor killing." He called the practice primitive and non-productive. He warned Muslim men that abuse of women was against Islam.
She also clarified her position with regard to his other activities with regard to Hezbollah; in fact, she made it clear that acts of Hezbollah had killed members of her own family:
It is no secret that Sayyed Mohammad Hussein Fadlallah hated with a vengeance the United States government and Israel. He regularly praised the terror attacks that killed Israeli citizens. And as recently as 2008, he said the numbers of Jews killed in the Holocaust were wildly inflated.
But it was his commitment to Hezbollah's original mission - resisting Israel's occupation of Lebanon - that made him popular and respected among many Lebanese, not just people of his own sect.
In 1983, as Fadlallah found his voice as a spiritual leader, Islamic Jihad - soon to morph into Hezbollah - bombed the U.S. Marine barracks in Beirut, killing 299 American and French peacekeepers. I lost family members in that terror attack.
At the same time, she notes that he ultimately emerged as a more moderate voice against the harsher, more powerful Iranian clerics.
In later years, Hezbollah's leadership apparently did not like Fadlallah's vocal criticism of Hezbollah's allegiance to Iran. Nor did they like his assertions that Hezbollah's leaders had been distracted from resistance to Israeli occupation of portions of Lebanon and had turned weapons against their own people.
At first, he was simply pushed to the side, but later wasn't even referred to as a Hezbollah member. Rather, he was referred to as the scholar - the expert on Islam - but nothing more. During the 2006 war between Hezbollah and Israel, his honorary title "Sayyed" - indicating that he's a descendant of the prophet - was dropped any time he was mentioned on Hezbollah's Al-Manar TV and other Hezbollah media outlets.
The only thing this proves is that when it comes to Israel and the Middle East, emotions run so high and so hot that I doubt anything resembling peace can ever come to pass. There is a centuries-old rift that gets scratched open by the softest fabrics brushing thin skin. It doesn't matter what side the US takes, or what side Nasr takes on these issues. I'm certain Nasr's position at CNN -- even though she is a Lebanese Christian -- has long been a bone of contention among the pro-Israel press.
I will miss her. She was one of the few journalists on Twitter who quoted Pablo Neruda and shared the sheer joy of her travel and her job. She loved that job. I'm sure she's heartbroken.
I agree with the sentiments of her Twitter fan, Bashar Hamad:
I wonder if all these people so quick to jump on @octavianasrCNN comment Re: Fadlallah's passing be so quick to jump on real hate speech
Not only wouldn't they, they're the ones who routinely step up and use it. Whether it's racist comments about our President or libeling Supreme Court justices, they not only don't jump on it, they embrace it in the name of the First Amendment.




CNN's senior editor on middle eastern affairs would have more credibility if he/she had no idea who Sayyed Mohammed Hussein Fadlallah was, as long as he/she knows to always follow "Hezbollah" with "evil terrorist murderers".
When they hired Glen Beck. They have no credibility.
I like him. I'll like him even more after he leaves CNN.
Wow, how'd I miss that? He's the only decent one left. He's not always, but when it comes to natural disasters, he's one of the best. Always good with the people stories.
Ditto :)
Study the symptoms not the virus...
Looks like it's based on rumor at this point. But I'll be watching... :)
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ynews/20100702/bs_yne...
Ya, the line that divides those people that Cooper can and
cannot "keep honest" are obvious and laughable.
I'm sure he wanted to keep president Bush and Cheney honest,
but CNN had him go after Acorn and things of that nature.
"Government by organized money is just as dangerous as Government by organized mob"
-= Franklin Delano Roosevelt =-
Even Jack Cafferty is moving to the right with his biases. And Wolf Blitzer is pathetic.
Beck, Hannity, Rove and other asswipes continue to spew their venom with no repercussions whatsoever. What a world we live in. And it only gets worse after the mid term elections.
I check the CNN link only if there is a breaking story that might have video worth looking at.
There are reasons why it has gone from my number one news site on cable a decade ago the an unused news link on the internet (I have not TV any more).
Sadly instead of competeing with the Republican news channel that seem pathetically desparate to join it.
to hold a job. It's all about hate and hate politics. It's pretty simple really, even though Democrats hold majorities, Democrats do not hold "majorities" among the media. It doesn't matter what is said in the papers or on television because republicans rule the "media" hell they own it! Check out a local paper and all you read about is how badly the Democrats will lose this election cycle, facts are irrevelent and reality is ignored. It's all republicans all the time and sorry bout your luck. "Liberal Media" is a phrase used by the real elite to confuse the gullible. Media is controlled by billionaires that have fired the real journalitsd for speaking truth to power, namely themselves so convenientaly.
The love you take is equal to the love you make. John Lennon Paul Mc Cartney
when ariel sharon goes belly-up will cnn have the same reaction if/when a cnn employee expresses 'respect' and 'sadness'?
cnn blows
American propaganda demands a pro Israeli bias.
You will have a hard time getting even the most rabidly zionistic commentator to admit to having even a little bias.
and maybe goatse, too, for all anyone knows.
Programmed out so I can't even accidentally cross its path, and a letter has been sent.
Getting down to mighty slim pickings on the cable news front.
If CNN doesn't go back to full disclosure screen splashes i won't
be able to trust them any longer, and then they will become
much worse than useless as information source. I have September pencilled in for my cancellation of CNN, and all the live global
coverage that comes with it.
The right wing bull that comes with the global coverage
is too much, too harmful to experience any longer.
The right wing and their pundits have been a terrible influence on
the CNN family.
I feel like they are casualties of the right wing, just not strong
willed enough to resist their "special interest" in cable NEWS lies.
"Government by organized money is just as dangerous as Government by organized mob"
-= Franklin Delano Roosevelt =-
New technologies are mainly introduced to meet corporate needs, and those of recent years have permitted media firms to shrink staff even as they achieve greater outputs, and they have made possible global distribution systems that reduce the number of media entities. The audience “interaction” facilitated by advancing interactive capabilities mainly help audience members to shop, but they also allow media firms to collect detailed information on their audiences, and thus to fine-tune program features and ads to individual characteristics as well as to sell by a click during programs. Along with reducing privacy, this should intensify commercialization.
In short, the changes in politics and communication over the past dozen years have tended on balance to enhance the applicability of the propaganda model. The increase in corporate power and global reach, the mergers and further centralization of the media, and the decline of public broadcasting, have made bottom-line considerations more influential both in the United States and abroad. The competition for advertising has become more intense and the boundaries between editorial and advertising departments have weakened further. Newsrooms have been more thoroughly incorporated into transnational corporate empires, with budget cuts and a further diminution of management enthusiasm for investigative journalism that would challenge the structures of power.
Study the symptoms not the virus...
Crooks and Liars has officially jumped the shark.
First, pointing out Fadlallah support for women's rights is like praising the German government of the 1930s for building the autobahn. Parton the reducto ad hitlerum, but this clearly needs to be put in a way that people can easily understand. Indeed, the analogy is incomplete mostly because the Nazi's commitment to infrastructure was unquestioned, while Fadlallah was anti-choice, advocated the "different roles" bullshit every feminist dreads, and demands that women cover all but their face with no similar restrictions for men.
By contrast, has Nasr or indeed Crooks and Liars ever praised Israel's commitment to women's rights, one that is unquestionably more sincere? This is an honest, non-rhetorical question.
Second, one can say Hezbollah's original goal was to "resisting Israel's occupation of Lebanon" just as easily as one can say Franco's original goal was to beat communism. The final objective of Hezbollah was then and is now the destruction of Jewish independence followed by second-class citizenship for any survivors. Even a brief glance at Hezbollah's propaghanda belies the claim of this "journalist."
Third, saying she was fired for not being "bias toward Israel" is just insane. If one praises a loyalist paramilitary leader in Northern Ireland, any sane news agency would kick them far away from that field as possible. S/he would not be fired for being "bias toward Republicans," but because s/he PRAISED A FUCKING LOYALIST PARAMILITARY LEADER! I apologize for the immature use of caps lock, but clearly extra measures are required.
By all means, critique Israel in the same exact way you criticize any other nation facing comparable threats.* But when you praise the leader of a homophobic, antisemitic, militaristic, genocidal, group of war criminals that is recognized by all sane people as a terrorist organization, that clearly does not make one simply not biased toward Israel.
Claiming that dumbass comments from the right somehow negate this is immature, to be generous.
*I have yet to see this done in Crooks and Liars. I've taken this language from Alan Dershowitz's challange to name one nation, facing comparable threats, that has had a better human rights record than Israel. I extend that challange to this blog and its readers.
"By contrast, has Nasr or indeed Crooks and Liars ever praised Israel's commitment to women's rights, one that is unquestionably more sincere? This is an honest, non-rhetorical question."
I Am Not Sitting at the Back of the Bus: by Naomi Ragen (published in the Jewish Chronicle on 23 February 2007)
Study the symptoms not the virus...
1) Even mainstream mosques segregate based on sex. Hezbollah-controlled mosques are no different. 2) The buses were voluntary. both male and female non-Hasidim were not required to ride them. 3) Your article is way out of date. The Supreme Court had a huge ruling on this topic that occured before you bookmarked the article. 4) Egged serves a very small area of the entire nation. It would be like comparing Amish country to New York City. 5) My question is still unanswered. Remember that the bar for praising someone for their commitment to women's rights has just been lowered by a lot.
in regards to dershowitz's question about israel's 'human rights record', do you count palestinians as humans?
Israel has turned the Gaza Strip into a prison for Palestinians where life is "intolerable, appalling, tragic" and appears to have thrown away the key, a United Nations human rights envoy said on Tuesday.
http://www.haaretz.com/news/un-human-rights-e...
You refused to answer the question and attempted a dispicable race card play, but I'll reply against my better judgement.
First, what kind of article mentions international law and the breaking of it without listing any laws? Second, the UN is not a reliable source. It's Human Rights Council condemns Israel more than any other government in the entire world. Can you honestly look around the world and see no government worse than Israel? Third, the economic situation in both the Strip and the West Bank has been impoved by Israel. The government build wells, roads, and all the territory's universities. They immunized the population, gave women the right to vote, allowed Palestinians to get jobs in Israel, and (during the first few decades) oversaw one of the fastest growing GDPs in the world.
The situation took a turn for the worse only because of the first Indifadah. Where has this ever been mentioned.
sorry, in your zionistic orgasm i failed to see whether or not you think palestinians are human. i honestly can't tell.
That's nothing compared to the attempted loaded question you're offering.
if asking you whether or not palestinians are human is a 'loaded question' then i think i have my answer.
wow
The point is, did her reporting reflect bias? I haven't been able to find any anti-Israel bias over that 20 year period. Did her remark really render her ineffective? Well, I suppose not by CNN standards as long as they continue to put Erick Erickson on the air after he called Justice Souter what he did.
This wasn't especially an invitation to fight the conflict between Israel and Palestine in the comments. It was more a reflection on a media outlet who, even when context and clarification was added and published, chose to let a 20-year employee go rather than simply allow the dust to blow over.
I honestly think it does, yes. To return to my example, if a Northern Irish reporter whose beat was the Troubles said that she morned the death of a loyalist terrorist leader then she would and should be, at the very least, moved to another beat.
n/m
Of course I think Palestinians are human. If I didn't I would support nations other than Israel. I would support Jordan, who were responsible for the deaths of more Palestinian civilians in two months the total number of Palestinians, civilian and combatant, killed by the IDF in a decade. I would support Kuwait, who kicked out all Palestinians after the PLO supported Saddam, while 20% of Israelis are Palestinian. I would support Hamas, who murders Palestinians every day because of their political beliefs or sexuual orientation, who illegally uses Palestinian kids as human shields, who beat unveiled Palestinian women and Palestinian guys who play music or drink, who illegally use Palestinian kids as child soldiers, who steal aid for Palestinian kids to buy illegal guns, who steal food and ambulances (paid for by US and Israeli taxpayers) from poor Palestinian. I would support Arafat, who stole millions from the Palestinian people.
If the pain of Palestinians was what got me through the day, all these groups and nations would be bigger friends to me than the most fanatic Kach or JDL member.
Do you think Jews are human? I would ask nobody else this question.
however, you make assumptions that aren't verifiable. UN is not a reliable source? Sez you. That's an opinion, not a fact in which to build an argument.
Secondly, you would have a much better argument if the HRC DIDN'T find cause to condemn Israel. The "but that guy is worse" card...well it just sucks, OK. Yep, there are countries where human rights are violated to a greater degree than that of Israel. Being less guilty is still being guilty.
Again, I'm not taking sides in the argument, but you used some debate tactics in that last post that a reasonably well-versed fellow wouldn't utilize.
Just sayin.
"Better." It's what we should ask of ourselves and of our leaders.
I apologize ahead of time if this sounds like semantics, because I honestly do not intent it to. The United Nations is not a reliable source BY ITSELF. We should all be too jaded from the Goldstone report to accept anything the UN says regarding this topic at face value.
Let me put it this way. If a cop clearly indicates that he's biased against one guy who has commited, at worse, some misdemenors and spends the majority of his time investigating that one guy while ax murderers and crack dealers exist in other parts of the community, then yes, that cop, by himself, is not a reliable source.
does not make said country guilty of anything
A wild Israel apologist appears. It used anti-semitism defense. It's super effective.
Hey Ian, FUCK ISRAEL! OK?
If you have selfish, ignorant citizens, you're gonna get selfish, ignorant leaders.
George Carlin
Don't fuck Israel, fuck zionists like Ian.
Just saying!
Bite my shiny metal ass.
http://www.startalkradio.net/
I hear ya, Alerta, and stand corrected!
If you have selfish, ignorant citizens, you're gonna get selfish, ignorant leaders.
George Carlin
Hey, Gene. Fuck simplistic, macho, pointless, cap locked replies that waste everyone's time and do not even attempt to answer any challenging questions! OK?
libya
big joke
surprised you quote him as credible. Israel's record on human rights is dismal, not be excused because of "threats". The threats are hardly from the Palestinians, except in their population growth, which Israel greatly fears. And all the other threats from Arab countries would certainly diminish if Israel gave up its apartheid practices toward Palestinians. The challenge I extend to you is to educate yourself as to how Israel REALLY treats the Palestinians whose land they stole, and whose houses they continue to bulldoze.
"The threats are hardly from the Palestinians, except in their population growth, which Israel greatly fears."
A growth which has been fuled by the improved living conditions under Israeli rule. See my response to Samson.
Bulldozing is almost totally used either as punishment for supporting terrorism or to destroy weapon-smuggling tunnels (which are illegal and the PA's responsiblilty to destroy under the Oslo Accords. If the Palestinians don't want any more demilitions, all they need do is enforce their agreements.) If you think the worst human rights abuse currently occuring is the destruction of bricks, then I suggest you visit the sites of human rights groups more often.
Why will you not answer the challange?
So you're saying that the extent to which a nation should respect human rights is inversely proportional to the "threats" it perceives against itself? Sounds like a convenient way to justify the kind of heavy-handed brutality that Israel and the U.S. love to engage in, with "Terrorism" as the excuse.
"So you're saying that the extent to which a nation should respect human rights is inversely proportional to the 'threats' it perceives against itself?"
Not in the least. I'm simply taking into account what most people already realize; that a nation like Switzerland is going to have less of an opportunity to abuse human rights then, say, the Allies of World War II. Clearly Switzerland had the much better human rights record in the 1940s (no atomic bombs, no mass rape of German women, no mass deportation of ethnic Germans, no Dresden, no Tokyo firebombings, no Japanese-American internment, etc).
But a fair comparison cannot be made between the Allies and Switzerland. The later faced no threat from any enemy (or, at the very least, had others face its threat for it). The former battled Japanese Imperialism and Nazisim, ideologies one can say without engaging in hyperbole are two of the biggest threats to human rights and world peace man has ever faced.
Similarly, it would not be fair to compare the human rights record of, say, Monaco to that of Israel. This does not mean that one can't criticize Israel (or the Allies, for that matter) when it does wrong. It simply means that that criticism must take into account the threats it faces.
Thus, the challange is still on.
all other nations
while the world was screaming about the flotilla, turkey was indiscriminately killing and arresting kurds....many under the age of 18
the world said nothing
and the close to 10000 rockets and mortars that have been fired from gaza since 2005 (when israel pulled out) and continue to be fired up till today
those arent "threats"
progressives still dont understand what apartheid is...do they
give me a call when an arab is arrested and whipped for having sex with an israeli....ok?
cuz that is what goldstone upheld in his court...in south africa
a true apartheid state
"progressives still dont understand what apartheid is...do they"
Yes they do you fecking shite! You are the one that doesn't understand. The Palistines that are the one that are under the apartheid regime.
Bite my shiny metal ass.
http://www.startalkradio.net/
I am guessing you are a big Fox News fan. Anyone with any awareness of history would know that ANY progress in the Middle East for woman rights is progress. This is a society that essentially makes a tiny change once every couple of centuries (so really the "perfect" conservatives except for that whole Muslim thing) so yes for a woman to give a hat tip to a guy that even moved the needle there a little bit is deserved. The needle moving a little is better than the needle not moving at all which has been the case for woman there for millenium now.
To me this action has several lessons. One is CNN listens to conservatives way more then it should. They have made more then a few actions over the last year or so that has been driven by the conservative hate machine. They care about credibility but letitng outside forces with their own agenda's drive their decision making does absolutely nothing to increase that credibilty. Especially considering the vocal minority doing most of the attacking. CNN could become a virtual clone of Fox News and it still would be labled a liberal station by that bunch. You can't win with them so don't bother playing.
The second lesson, and most important if a CNN employee is close your twitter account. If an employee of CNN, to take the risk that a tweet might cost you a job. Especially if going to tweet something that might offend poor evil vs good sensibilibities that most Americans (especially the right) depend on to keep their bubble in place. Considering the infinite supply of anger and fear the right survive on, its pretty much impossible to avoid that outrage and not become a target with a tweet. Since CNN clearly only knows how to tuck tail and run, just easier to not tweet, facebook, etc at all.
Give me one reason I should to continue to read your reply after this sad, inaccurate assumption.
The truth is anathema to you Israel loving fucks, so reading that might make your eyes hurt.
too late. you Godwinned at the outset. You can't walk that back, not w/ a misspelled "Pardon me."
Zionist Fail.
me-oww!
Pardon moi...
Diabolus est Deus Inversus
Pardonnez moi, s'il vous plait!
When will government of the people, by the politicians, for the corporations perish from this Earth?
Not soon enough!
Thank you for nailing the issue perfectly Ian7. Once you rule Hezbollah into the circle of legitimacy you've aligned yourself with an organization that is dedicated to genocide and destruction.
I don't know whether one tweet is enough to fire a person. I think you can praise an evil person for moderating his evil, even if he fails to repent of it. On the other hand, in a time of war, such as exists between Hizbollah and Israel and the U.S., we do get into a "which side are you on" sort of situation.
If someone really stands up and praises the "relative moderation" of a figure like Nasr, whose fundamental commitments to genocidal war are unchanged, and fails to bracket or qualify that praise as she delivers it, she is at the very least foolish. At the least. But it may be more than that. It may be about legitimizing the man and the organization. And at that point a news organization has to decide whether it wants such a person in its employ. Based on what I've read, I can see why she had to go.
As for Karoli, well thanks for clarifying where you stand on Hezbollah... firmly in the pro-genocide left, apparently. I mean seriously, Hezbollah is no joke, as an ideological matter or as a political force. If you don't oppose this organization with everything you've got, you've got no claim to being on the side of peace, love or understanding.
It's about suppressing someone's freedom of speech. It seems to be just fine for conservatives to call the President Hitler or a nazi or whatever, and for all muslims to be characterized as terrorists, because black and white are all there is. Never grey.
She acknowledged the evil he did. She clearly stated her family even fell victim to it. This isn't about Israel. It isn't about Hezbollah. It's about one person expressing regret at the death of a man who made tiny inroads for women in Arab culture.
It wasn't the smartest thing to try and say in 140 characters. It certainly lacked nuance.
But for you to ascertain that I somehow endorse terrorism or the like because I object to someone making a statement, clarifying it and losing their job over it is really a stretch.
I grant you that the case for firing her is debatable, given that she clarified what she meant... although a bit too late ...
But even if we agree that the firing is a debatable point, the approach to Hezbollah in your post suggests that HER explanation is somehow within reason. In fact, I'd argue that it adopts the tones of reason, but contains a very different message.
"she notes that he ultimately emerged as a more moderate voice against the harsher, more powerful Iranian clerics."
She does in fact say that, but praising someone as "more moderate" when their basic position is extreme is a kind of exoneration that takes with one hand, but gives with the other.
That she is able to grant this partial exoneration even though the man killed some of her own family could be said to reflect a largeness of spirit, and more power to her, when it is her own family. Others may be forgiven if they feel considerably less forgiving toward the man and his organization.
I think I should not have said in my post that you have placed yourself "firmly in the pro-genocide left." You have not done that and I apologize for those over-heated words. If I was on CNN perhaps I should be fired for them. But I think that in supporting and endorsing her position of moral ambiguity, you are making the same error that she is making in her post-tweet explanation.
It's just not acceptable for a first response to the death of a truly violent person to be praise of his moderation.
he talked about it...thats all
i suggest you do some research on hezbollah and shariah law
nope
the constitution only protects ones speech from being suppressed by the government
doesnt protect someone from being terminated by a private company
I would be more comfortable condeming Nadr if praised Israeli leaders by the same standards (in which case, she'd be tweating at the passing of every Israeli politician who isn't a Kahane fan.) I'm hoping she did, but I won't hold my breath.
Comparing Hezbollah to Hitler's Third Reich is singularly appropriate.
Hitler's Germany was occupied by Jewish settlers just like Palestine.
Right?
When will government of the people, by the politicians, for the corporations perish from this Earth?
Not soon enough!
What part of southern Lebanon is currently occupied by "Jewish settlers"? Is the presence of Jews in an area enough to justify violence? Are you just as offended by the presense of gentiles in lands they took from other gentiles (e.g. Americans living in the Southwest, British living in Northern Ireland, Arabs living anywhere outside the Arabian Peninsula, etc.)? Are you offended by the existence of Arab-Israelis?
He used a hyperbole to show how idiotic your comment was.
Bite my shiny metal ass.
http://www.startalkradio.net/
With apologies to Dave Barry:
"This is known, in legal circles, as 'the [hyperbole] defense.' My reply is: okay, maybe it's a [hyperbole], but it's a really stupid [hyperbole]."
He said nothing of substance, and now you have contributed an equal amount as he. He still has questions to answer and no amount of hyperbole will make him look like less of a coward if he refuses. You may relieve him of this burden if you wish.
"It's better to keep your mouth shut and be thought a fool than to open it and remove all doubt."
Bite my shiny metal ass.
http://www.startalkradio.net/
Israel keeps bombing it.
me-oww!
I want you to explain to me why you think that is.
Because Israel needs some parking space?
Bite my shiny metal ass.
http://www.startalkradio.net/
I'm glad somebody here can find humor the in the traedy of war. Most people think it is a horrible thing that destroys lives and tramatizes survivors, but not you. Your wit is clearly at Dennis Miller levels.
Or you could be using bad humor to cover up the fact that you hold positions no sane, inteligent person with any bit of decency holds. Who knows?
While I'm sure miss_kitty appreciates your wit, I'd prefer if she answered the question.
Well, i'm sorry, not your kind of humour?. That doesn't mean i do not take the case seriously. Dispite what you might think. Should i say that Hamas need some parking space?
"While I'm sure miss_kitty appreciates your wit," Don't be sure!
Bite my shiny metal ass.
http://www.startalkradio.net/
look it up.
Oh Why do they bomb it? Because they're paranoid. Because they keep trespassing on Southern Lebanon with troops and the Lebanese don't like it and react. Right?
And yes, I do appreciate Alerta_Alerta's humour. Funny how an apologist for over-reaction, US financed aggression and violence by the IDF is concerned about the "tragedy of war" all of the sudden, Funny strange, not funny haha.
me-oww!
"Because they keep trespassing on Southern Lebanon with troops and the Lebanese don't like it and react."
1) When a nation is under attack by a paramilitary organization inside the boundaries of another nation, the former is allowed, under international law and under common sense, to react. Said reaction is not "trespassing", but self-defense, which every nation (yes, even the Jewish ones) is entitled to. Every single war along the northern border was the result of Arab aggression.
2) Summing up the conflicts in the north with the phrase "the Lebanese don't like it and react", is obscenely simplistic to put it mildly. During the 1970s, the PLO took over vast streatches of southern Lebanon. In these areas, they massacred Maronites on a massive scale. Lebanese human rights groups estimated that 100,000 were killed by the PLO between 1975 and 1981 alone. Many women were raped, some had their breasts cut off, and children were found with their eyes cut out. Maronites welcomed the IDF as liberators. Look these survivors in the eyes and then call ME an apologist.
3) You still didn't answer the question. You dismissed conserns about missles and terrorist raids from the PLO and Hezbollah as paranoia, but failed to explain why this fear is misplaced.
"And yes, I do appreciate Alerta_Alerta's humour."
Tell me what it's like when you join the real world. How about getting me a call when you need to console someone with PTSD, watch rockets fly over your head, or look your kids right in the eye and lie to them when you say these men with the AKs aren't going to hurt them?
"Funny how an apologist for over-reaction, US financed aggression and violence by the IDF is concerned about the 'tragedy of war' all of the sudden"
As I explained, and as every reasonably bright school kid knows, the aggression was Arab and Soviet financed and Arab ran. Your side started the war, not mine. We are the peace advocates, not you. [Deleted-Sitemonitor]
your fables are not worth the read, mate. Hope you enjoyed typing it.
me-oww!
Why the fuck should miss_kitty get of this site? Because you disagree? "Get the fuck off a liberal site" That's bloody funny comming from you! A two finger salute m8!
Bite my shiny metal ass.
http://www.startalkradio.net/
What about you joining the real world isntead of being such of a wanker. There are two wrongs in this case. But you know, Israel is the biggest wanker here. Not only a wanker but a complete tw@tface! You are blind and stupid! But hee, go on and call me a racist! I love it!
Bite my shiny metal ass.
http://www.startalkradio.net/
Such a lost art.
Saying "there are two wrongs in this case" is like saying there were two wrongs during World War 2.
The Allies commited many wrongs. Such as atomic bombs, mass rape of German women, mass deportation of ethnic Germans, Dresden, Tokyo firebombings, Japanese-American internment, etc. However, nobody outside Holocaust deniers and far-right Japanese thinks there were "two wrongs" or that the Allies were "the biggest wanker" (oh if the ancient Greek rhetoric masters could read this).
In this case, every sane military expert belies your assertion that Israel is any kind of "wanker", much les the "biggest". Trever Dupuy, Paul Martell, and Richard Gabriel (who have more knowlegde of military ethics in their left pinky nail then anyone in this message board combined) have all praised Israel's operation in the '80s. The latter two said they "can think of no war in which greater military advantages were gained in combat in densely populated areas at such a small cost in civilian lives lost [...]"
Prove them wrong or shut up.
In the more recent conflict, Richard Kemp, the head Briton in Afghanistan, said "the Israeli [sic] Defense Forces did more to safeguard the rights of civilians in the combat zones than any other army in the history of warfare." This implicitly includes your country and the country of most of those in this site. Our army cares more about innocent people than yours.
Prove him wrong or shut up.
Brilliant, using a lot of words for saying absolutely nothing.
BTW: Thank you for thinking that i'm British. :)
Bite my shiny metal ass.
http://www.startalkradio.net/
...militants on either side of the Israel vs Hezbollah/Hamas conflict are doing. You're ramping up the personal attacks to what you see as personal attacks. Have the cooler head. Be the Israeli Labor Party, not Likud.
Don't try to confuse the issue with half-truths and gorilla dust.
Not you Andy! I like you m8. And i hate to do this.....but....YOU ARE FUCKING WRONG!
I'm QQ here m8!
Bite my shiny metal ass.
http://www.startalkradio.net/
he's being a peacemaker. Let's just piss off out of this thread...
me-oww!
Maybe i should. But hee, it's my birthday and i should cry if i want to, right?
I'm 31 years old now! :P
Bite my shiny metal ass.
http://www.startalkradio.net/
damn. I'd love to be 31 again...
me-oww!
Thank you kitty cat. In my mind you are 31 years old. ;)
Bite my shiny metal ass.
http://www.startalkradio.net/
Resisting urge....So hard....
Don't try to confuse the issue with half-truths and gorilla dust.
Please make the joke because i have no idea what you are talking about.
Bite my shiny metal ass.
http://www.startalkradio.net/
And, yeah, I'm playing peacemaker because I think Ian7 started in here with the best of intentions, but instead of anyone trying to have anything like a serious conversation with him, everyone jumped on him as if his handle is Bibi N.
Thing is, I'm not seeing that. The fact of the matter is that in any other context, liberal progressives would view Hamas and Hezbollah in even worse a light than American Christian fundamentalists who blow up abortion clinics. We aren't talking about Gandhi or King here. There's a peaceful solution to be found, and, imo, it's up to the Palestinians- since they're the group looking to change the status quo- to go all passive resistance, and actually occupy the moral high ground that they now only claim to have.
Don't try to confuse the issue with half-truths and gorilla dust.
"and, imo, it's up to the Palestinians"
And that is not even wrong, it's so fucking wrong that i have no words for it!
The Israelians with there tanks, helicopters and there fucking American tools supress a bunch of guys with ak47 and bottle rockets.
If you cant see the injustice or that you just do not want to see it. It's bollocks.
And as i said before, i like you, but on this you are shite!
Bite my shiny metal ass.
http://www.startalkradio.net/
Just saying that the best way to overcome that injustice is through passive resistance. Don't use the AK47s and bottle rockets. Don't give anyone reasons to use the helicopters and tanks.
It worked in India. It worked for African-Americans striving for equal rights. It worked in South Africa. There's no reason it can't work for Palestinians.
Don't try to confuse the issue with half-truths and gorilla dust.
Yes, but the thing is not only hamas but also the hardcore (orthodox) jews. And they'll never want peace.
And if you look at it that way there's never going to be peace.
Never!
Bite my shiny metal ass.
http://www.startalkradio.net/
There are still white racists all over the US and South Africa. They lost, they weren't executed. Same thing should happen to the Orthodox Jews. They'll just become irrelevant. Just like Hamas and Hezbollah.
Don't try to confuse the issue with half-truths and gorilla dust.
seriously. Because they are just another outlet for pro Israel propaganda. Like all the MSM.
I thought her explanation was thorough and insightful--too high quality for the CNN flacks. Their level of "journalism" is dog shit I scrape off my shoe.
Sorry, but she's got some serious Stockholm-esque issues. Do these fundy Muslims have to molest kids before "bleeding hearts except when they're Jewish" question their values?
Not a Muslim, and certainly not fundy Muslim. It may come as a surprise to learn that many in that region are not Muslim.
why I didn't comment about her. The issue here is abbout CNN and the right wing media. The most trusted cable news network? By whom?
they ARE all terrorists, right? You see, I was watching teevee...
"Better." It's what we should ask of ourselves and of our leaders.
unpopular opinion = unemployment?
i would be curious to hear how a tequila-led newsroom would handle dissent.
for inciting violence, hate speech, and racial slurs, I'll be more inclined to agree with your statement.
Unfortunately, for those things, they get bigger contracts and more listeners, so your argument doesn't hold weight.
mumbling, bumbling imus was canned from his radio and msnbc gig
if you are talking about fox...that is something different
but they cater to racists
cnn should not be catering to holocaust deniers, terrorists and those that think it is a good thing for a gunman to walk into a yeshiva in jerusalem and gun down students
and this website shouldnt either
I blame this one on Bill Clinton also. He handed the reactionairies on the right control of the megaphone such that they have and will continue to use it to push anyone not in their mold off the air. But here's a question for the president at CNN, since CNN no longer has any credibility, well, on any issues, why don't you remove yourself from your position, since that is the criteria you are using to determine who stays and goes. Oh, and why I'm at it, you might wanna sell that bullshit explanation of yours to someone who is stupid enough to believe you. Bill Bennett, the gambling hypocrite, was not relieved from his job of morality preaching. Richard Quest, caught in Central Park in a compromising position, to say the least, is still on air. And don't get me started on Eric Ericcson, the right winger who threatened to shoot census workers.
You and your kind underline why the so-called mainstream media is in the crapper. You wonder why you rate lower than this pathetic congress we have; well you've just proven why. Thanks to Clinton's handing the media over to the right by relaxing media ownership rules and allowing conservatives and corporations (often one in the same) to buy up the media, we now have to suffer through this dribble you people call news.I don't care if you call out Democrats or Republicans, progressives or conservatives, or libertarians out for their lies, I only care that you actually do it. "We report, you decide" is a cowards way of cowtowing to the right under the guise of what Arrianna Huffington calls a false impartiality. The truth is neither left or right, but you are journalists, so you should do your damned jobs or get the hell out of the way and let someone with guts actually do it for you.
Since 1990, a wave of massive deals and rapid globalization have left the media industries further centralized in nine transnational conglomerates—Disney, AOL Time Warner, Viacom (owner of CBS), News Corporation, Bertelsmann, General Electric (owner of NBC), Sony, AT&T—Liberty Media, and Vivendi Universal. These giants own all the world's major film studios, TV networks, and music companies, and a sizable fraction of the most important cable channels, cable systems, magazines, major-market TV stations, and book publishers.
The largest, the recently merged AOL Time Warner, has integrated the leading Internet portal into the traditional media system. Another fifteen firms round out the system, meaning that two dozen firms control nearly the entirety of media experienced by most U.S. citizens. Bagdikian concludes that “it is the overwhelming collective power of these firms, with their corporate interlocks and unified cultural and political values, that raises troubling questions about the individual's role in the American democracy."5
Of the nine giants that now dominate the media universe, all but General Electric have extensively conglomerated within the media, and are important in both producing content and distributing it. Four of them—Disney, AOL Time Warner, Viacom, and News Corporation produce movies, books, magazines, newspapers, TV programs, music, videos, toys, and theme parks, among other things; and they have extensive distribution facilities via broadcasting and cable ownership, retail stores, and movie-theater chains. --Manufacturing Consent: The Political Economy of the Mass Media
Study the symptoms not the virus...
So somebody does watch what they say on CNN and chokes the chain
whenever anybody barks the truth to truthfully.
That is expected, but it raises the question, how does all the
Thuglican lying, misleading, misdirection, and false narrative get
though CNNs choke chain?
They seem to be pulling the chain at the exact wrong moments.
It's time to take a cold hard look at who's pulling our chains at
CNN!
OK, CNN is on a knife edge. But more truth is always better
than less. And this sounds like less truth coming from CNN.
How about more "full - disclosure" statements.
One day CNN even posted all afilliations for each guest pundit. Did
that stop>?
Make it start again!!
"Government by organized money is just as dangerous as Government by organized mob"
-= Franklin Delano Roosevelt =-
A discussion we've been having on the DMN about a letter quoting FDR about a Nation is judged by how we treat the weakest. Conservatives have glommed on to it, as you might expect, about the states having all power not listed as Congresses, in Article I, Section 8.
Here's my responses:
People who argue that the Federal government has no concern over the hardship of the people, often due to government policy working against their favor, they totally ignore in this case the fact that both the IX and X amendments refer to the rights of the people, who can vote for certain economic packages if they so choose, and they have the franchise.
They ignore the enumerated powers that in effect made certain powers EXCLUSIVE to the Feds that the States once excercised under the old Articles of Confederation such as taxation, minting, raising their own armies etc. The States under the the old articles could even ignore federal laws, so federal troops would have to sometimes be called in to have to force the states to pay the revenue they agreed to for a war, sometimes splitting troops between battlefields and acting like collection officers.
They also ignores the Tax and Spend clause in Article I, Section 8, Clause 1 that in general give Congress the power of taxation and the power to decide how to spend that tax.
And they then have the Article VI and the XIV Amendment giving them Federal Supremacy power over the States.
Then when they structure the new system they do so according to the State, so that two programs, federal and state are mingled together, or if the state has no such program, becomes the day-to-day administrator of the federal program, that in either case sends financing for State agencies to disperse according to their own rules.
That's why we end up with systems like the Texas Unemployment Insurance dispensing lower amounts than say New York or California, who also set their own standards.
I found the case I was looking for, in Edwards v California, 314 U.S. 16 (1941), the Supreme Court overturned a California indigency law, which could actually forbid someone from one State to move to another State to hunt for a job, if they didn't already have a job waiting for them.
So it was actually States, in this case California, interfering with Interstate Commerce and interstate traffic, a power reserved to Congress under Article I, Sec 8, cl 3. The distinguishing factor was this was a case of a jobless person trying to enter California to get a job, not their welfare.
According to http://www.law.umkc.edu/faculty/projects/ftri...
"In Justice Court a complaint was filed against appellant under Section 2615 of the Welfare and Institutions Code of California, St.1937, which provides: 'Every person, firm or corporation, or officer or agent thereof that brings or assists in bringing into the State any indigent person who is not a resident of the State, knowing him to be an indigent person, is guilty of a misdemeanor.' On demurrer to the complaint, appellant urged that the Section violated several provisions of the Federal Constitution.... "
______________________________________________________________
However, if no job was found soon, they would continue to be considered indigent. Once this case became the law of the land, it would be unfair for the Federal Government to tell the State, tough, you still have to support the guy until he finds a job, so the Federal government, on both the will of the People through the ballot and the States, got involved in picking up the slack, so it wouldn't become in effect an Unfunded Mandate.
__________________________________________________________________
I should also point out in case it wasn't clear that welfare programs are paid for from tax revenue, and unemployment insurance is like an insurance policy which is paid for in large extent from employees deductibles from their pay cheques, like any other insurance policy, with some funds coming from businesses, for which they work, for what they pay into the insurance program, with some funds from the government.
This also discourages employers from arbitrarily discharging the employee, because that raises their part of the insurance, like a car owner who has his rates increased, with the more accidents he has, and files on his insurance.
This also discourages employers from arbitrarily discharging the employee, because that raises their part of the insurance, like a car owner who has his rates increased, with the more accidents he has, and files on his insurance.
________________________________________________________________
I'm holding off on the XIV Amendment argument that we're citizens of the US, not our individual states, until I need it.
My tongue may be a little twisted since I'm already a little buzzed.
Diabolus est Deus Inversus
LOL it wasn't the "conservatives" who made her lose her job, it was the the far left, rabidly pro-Israel and anti-Islamic ADL. The Jewish extremist group, the Anti-Defamation League of B'nai B'rith decides who works in the media and who doesn't, based on what THEY deem politically correct.
http://www.adl.org/media_watch/tv/CNN_Editor_...
Are you sure it wasn't these folks?
Study the symptoms not the virus...
I can always count on Crooks and Liars for mindless equivocation by spastic, frothing commenters. It's highly entertaining.
You people live in a magical little world.
That you visit.
And yes, it is entertaining sometimes.
"Government by organized money is just as dangerous as Government by organized mob"
-= Franklin Delano Roosevelt =-
May your stash have seeds and stems to pop in your face...
Diabolus est Deus Inversus
But you could have always added and may it be compressed and from a Mexican ditch.
Or is that over the top?
"Better." It's what we should ask of ourselves and of our leaders.
Study the symptoms not the virus...
Hee, we have bloody unicorns, WTF do you have? My little ponies? Bugger off if you don't like it here.
Frostmourne will cut your face off. (Well, in my magical little world anyways)
Bite my shiny metal ass.
http://www.startalkradio.net/
The Audacity of Fascism
..as a journalist, Israel and the U.S. military.
Therefore, anything positive about Hezbollah (which literally kicked Israel's ass in 2008) or anything positive about America's "enemies" (Iran, Venezuela, Taliban, etc..) or something negative about either subject will cause a journalist to seek employment outside the mainstream media.
Helen Thomas was the shot across the bow of the mainstream media, she was burned at the stake as a warning.
Radix Omnium Malorum Avaritia
They pretty much run the White House and it's subsidiaries.
Hell O Hell O Hell O
because CNN is a subsidiary of the White House? LOL, not so much.
I have to say that i did not read any comments but you Isrealy firsters can suck it.
Edit: and CNN sucks!
Bite my shiny metal ass.
http://www.startalkradio.net/
and then maybe we can take you seriously
you take that comment seriously. You know it.
BTW. Proper spelling includes a capital 'I.' Just sayin'
me-oww!
Feck off Uncle joe mccarthy. I spell it the way i want. What the hell are you? A bloody spelling Nazi?
That makes bloody sense, and a two finger salute to you m8!
Bite my shiny metal ass.
http://www.startalkradio.net/
as you meant israel first....you are questionting israel supporters loyalty to america
which makes you pretty much a bigot
and that is why i dont take you seriously
based on your own rigid parameters. No capital 'I,' no proper spelling. Sorry. Proper spelling includes the proper case for a word. Those are the Grammar Stasi Rules
me-oww!
You idiot, get with the programm and call me an anti semite. Do i have to read the IDF handbook for you?
Bite my shiny metal ass.
http://www.startalkradio.net/
you are questioning american's loyalty to america
how are you any different than beck, loofa boy or el druggo?
there has become a very thin line between the far right and the far left...and it is very scary
He misspells 'Israel' consistently. trufax, m8. ;)
me-oww!
and i choose to type without caps
and i dont know why you are getting in the middle of this
That's you Joe!
Bite my shiny metal ass.
http://www.startalkradio.net/
Your Fuckin A Right I do.
If israel is such a loyal allie to the US, why do they spy on us? Huh? Answer that Joe?
What is your conceptual, continuity?
and they spied on us
you are ignorant
Ummm, After WW2 they were pretty much enemies.
The US does not fund Russia .
ignorant? really?
Well, now that you've brought it up, yes, you are.
What is your conceptual, continuity?
russia is currently an ally...since the end of the cold war
and i guess you missed the big news this past week about the russian spy network here in the states
too busy figuring out new ways to hate israel and allude that supporters are disloyal to america
Hey Joe, when did you stop beating your dog?
I would hardly call Russia an allie.
Some diplomatic ties? Yes, allie,no.
Plus we don't FUND Russia.
Israel on the other hand gets funding from the US.
You know that. You intentionally dodged that.
There you go again with that hate Israel bullshit.
How many times do I have to tell you it's the Israeli govt people are upset with.It's the right wingers that run that country. But now that I think of it, You don't see many protests coming out of Israel that are against the govt there. I know that there are some Israeli's that disagree with the Israeli govt's position and actions regarding Palestine.
But that discussion is for another time.
To summarize: You are full of shit Joe.
Israel spies on us. Explain why Israel spies on us?
As for the Russian spy story? Yeah, I saw it.
I also notice that Israel is partially lifting it's embargo/block aide of Gaza. It appears that public out cry has made BiBi soften his stance on the Gaza blockaide. Even Bibi is less far right than you now Joe.
What is your conceptual, continuity?
"no....i called you a bigot"
yeah, i got that. But why should i take you seriously as you do not capitilize and do not punctuate?
Bite my shiny metal ass.
http://www.startalkradio.net/
are you questioning the loyalty of americans?
if you are...then you are no different than beck, loofa boy or el druggo...and you are on the wrong blog
i suggest you spend more time hanging out at redstate
And neither are you Joe.
Take a good long look in the mirror. You support terrorism. Just as long as it's not towards israel. Dood, you're all fucked up.
What is your conceptual, continuity?
Dude, I don't think you have the authority to invite posters to leave.
me-oww!
WTF did i question? The loyalty of fuck who?
Bite my shiny metal ass.
http://www.startalkradio.net/
BWAAAHAhahahahahahahahahahahahahaha!
Joe must have been bounced from a few other sites! BWAAAHAHAHAHAHAhahahahahahahahahahaha!
What is your conceptual, continuity?
When they got nuthin else. They call you a bigot or a racist.
Of course, there are exceptions to this rule.
When the asshat is actually a bigot or a racist.
Not in this case. Just so you know.:)
On the other hand. Joe is.
Allah Aqbar mother f*cker!
:)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=woLQI8X2R6Y
What is your conceptual, continuity?
based on their religious beliefs...what do you call it?
Courage!
Right?
Bite my shiny metal ass.
http://www.startalkradio.net/
Try this one.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=igOQclFxHAc
What is your conceptual, continuity?
dont be obtuse
Yah, well, i'm sure you feel a lot better at redstate. More of the reigh wing attitude you displays.
Right? And a lot less of that fecking thing called "wit".
Bite my shiny metal ass.
http://www.startalkradio.net/
i think you mean reichwing
and im not the one questioning american's loyalty to america
WTF is that thing with loyalty to America thing?
And you are going to lecture me about spelling? Bloody hell, the irony!
Bite my shiny metal ass.
http://www.startalkradio.net/
are questioning those person's loyalty
do not deny that
and point out one word that i have misspelled
i choose not to use caps....its the net
Sure, in your bloody mind!
Oh and use fecking punctuation you tw@tface!
Bite my shiny metal ass.
http://www.startalkradio.net/
You honestly can't tell that he deliberately misspelled that?
And you actually pounced on that?
Allah Aqbar Joe!
What is your conceptual, continuity?
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