Dennis Prager: Equality Is NOT An American Value
By Nicole Belle Thursday Oct 30, 2008 9:45am(24 minute video--critical quote at 6:00)
Self-dubbed "The Three Tenors" of talk radio (a bad analogy, as the actual Three Tenors were talented and at the top of their field, and these jokers are...well, you know, hacks), Dennis Prager, Hugh Hewitt and Michael Medved went to Minnesota to stump for the trio of Michelle Bachmann, Norm Coleman and Erik Paulsen. Prager apparently has a rather different reading of the Constitution than most people:
Prager, who calls Bachmann a “wonderful, wonderful extraordinary human being,” addressed the brouhaha by telling how he would’ve dealt with MSNBC’s Chris Matthews — by asking Matthews if he believes there are “American values” in the first place; if Matthews agrees, then “logic 1.1″ dictates that some people must hold anti-American values.
He added that both parties once upheld the “American value system” — the Democrats in the era of Kennedy and Truman — but the “Sixties Generation, the radicals, have taken over one of our two parties. They must be stopped!” People who “vote blue,” he added, “don’t know they’re voting radical.”
No fan of the Enlightenment, Prager added, “Equality, which is the primary value of the left, is a European value, not an American value.”
Wow. So I guess that Congress was being oh so continental when they wrote this:
Amendment XIV
Section 1. All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the state wherein they reside. No state shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any state deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.
Remind me again who hates American values?
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.....that all men are created equal."
I guess that doesn't ring a bell with Prager.
Thomas Jefferson clearly must have been a European sympathizer.
Well, it was, after all, the Continental Congress.
heard this on a radio talk show that we were listening to in the car and she said on her own, "no, that's wrong" and proceeded to recite the Declaration of Independence including this phrase. I couldn't have been more proud.
The most disturbing thing about this is that people are actually applauding the twit. Unbelievable. What ever happened to my country?
Prager actually cited the Declaration of Independence and said he agreed with Human equality and equality under the law or god.
He was referring to economic equality.
Go listen again. He's referring to Michelle Bachmann's comment about Anti-American values, which he mentions right before launching into what European values are --- it has NOTHING to do with economic Equality or Inequality.
By the way, The founders of our country were all too aware of the governmental systems that oppressed other people and tried their best to thread the needle and not repeat other countries' mistakes.
In fact, in the writing of the Declaration of Independence, Adams wanted Jefferson to write: "life, liberty, property" -- but Jefferson changed it back, because that would have led to exactly to what some people still want today.. with Property holders only having a say in government.
Advocate123,
You keep posting this, including your link to a video claiming Prager is being libeled.
I know what he meant. I know he meant economic equality. But come on. Obama is not "spreading the wealth" in order to achieve "economic equality." And the kind of "economic equality" Prager is talking about is hardly a "French value."
For all of conservatives' talk about "equal rights" and "equal opportunity," they essentially misconstrue the American left's understanding of liberty and equality. Most on the left do not seek to flatly equalize everyone's economic status at the expense of so much liberty. We feel that liberty and equality are linked. That we are all entitled to Equal Liberty.
And we feel that equal liberty is not sustained by laissez faire economics. Instead, if too much economic power is concentrated in the hands of a few, those few control the lives of so many other people. Government is not the only threat to liberty. Indeed, at times, government must intervene in the market to protect liberty.
While I understand that orthodox Libertarians and some conservatives would disagree, please don't claim we're straw-manning Prager when he says, "Equality is not an American value," and then says, "Oh, but I mean economic equality." These are complicated issues, and he's straw-manning us by telling everyone that when we speak of equality, we're basically a bunch of communists who seek to take away all liberty to enforce purely equal economic status.
I wish I said that!
Holy Dogshit! Frist!
DOH!
How quickly Medved forgets his own heritage.
He is correct in that America wasn't really about equality in the beginning when it comes to land owners vs. blacks, natives and women. Maybe he has a vision to take America back to that time when he could own people and not have to listen to their dissent?
Only Caucasian White Males were labeled as "human" in that era.
.
Very European of John Hancock… eh Dennis?
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he quoted the Constitution and Dec. of Ind, to differentiate that type of human equality from economic equality!!!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u9WRVd1oTjI
he showed me what an idiot, a lying idiot, prager is. i thought he very carefully explained why your economic equality theory is stupid. not sure why you think this bolsters your arguement. it's the same arguement republics use all the time: i didn't mean anything by that, you misunderstood my words. If that is the case, what the hell are you doing in a profession that words and intent are very important. Otherwise, it's a third grade excuse.
Wow! So much stupid in one room! You can almost hear the whistling of the wind through so many empty heads.
Wow! So much stupid in one room! You can almost hear the whistling of the wind through so many empty heads.
Couldn't have said it better. Well done.
If 'merka was the country these scumbags wanted it to be none of them would be here because their parents would have taken one look at them and smothered them at birth.
Much like the Spartans and other warrior cultures did with defective infants.
these guys really have a serious problem,
but this is what happens when your balls
are all the brains you have and they get
in the way with every step you take.
As long as you're a republican, wear a flag pin, and have a "support the troops" bumper sticker, you're a good American. Everyone else is un-American filth.
Dennis Prager, Hugh Hewitt and Michael Medved can suck a bushel of dicks....I'd say Bachmann, too, but she already does (and wipes her chin clean with a Jesus embroidered hanky).
I hate to say but he is right.
Americans don't beleive in big gov't, the fend for yourself I don't want to pay taxes etc. This is evidenced by no healthcare, privatization of just about everything in gov't
The Declaration of Independence is the source of All Men are created Equal.
Of course the Founding Fathers DID limit the voting franchise to property owning whites.
Of course the Founding Fathers DID limit the voting franchise to property owning
whitesWHITE MALES.There, corrected.
They believe privilege is justified. They don't like public schools because they think the quality of one's education should be determined by your ability to pay for it. Environmental protection is for rich people's Summer homes, not places where regular folks actually live and work. It goes on and on. Equal protection under the Law? You get the Justice you can afford!
Finally. A neocon has publicly admitted what they really stand for. Now can we make it legal to beat these simpering idiots with sticks?
i really think they would prefer
if we used out dicks. you know
they all miss larry craig's personal attention.
Introducing the amerikan taliban.
. . . in just four words.
The sort of talk that Prager spouts and the how-dare-you-question-it attitude are purely an American manifestation of Taliban-think.
more equal than others.....
Does this vampire really beleive this sh*t?
would be non-American values, not anti-American values. He's sawing the old Bush saw, "You're either for us or agin' us." And I do mean Bush the uniter not the divider.
That's a good point and exactly right. Somehow I don't think that logic is one of Pragers strong points.
I know that ideology runs in cycles, but ya know...I am just so tired of this stuff.
The damage that bullshit like this has caused the country is beyond measure.
I really do want these people to just GO AWAY.
They want to embarrass themselves...that's fine. They want to wallow in their ignorance...that's fine.
Just stop making our whole nation look like a collection of morons.
What's happened to our dennis
Or as I prefer to call him, penis?
Penis is a part of a man, and that guy IS NO MAN.
Gotta find another word!
The 3 BVDeviants is more like it.
Doesn't Ted Nugent tour with these toolbags as well?
Finally. A neocon has publicly admitted what they really stand for. Now can we make it legal to beat these simpering idiots with sticks?
Actually, I'd like to beat Hugh Hewitt with Dennis Prager.
Isn't what he stands for.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u9WRVd1oTjI
Sorry. Too much to ask....especially at lunch time.
Is it OK to call them Nazi yet?
http://www.oldamericancentury.org/promos/fasc...
Why is it everytime a Repug opens his mouth, disgusting, mean spirited, bigoted remarks come out of it. Whether it's Bachman, Dole or this idiot, They never have anything nice or productive to say. More than depressing. And people vote for these cretins. It makes me wonder about the IQ of my fellow Americans.
that most people are average.
Of course, Prager's "Logic 1.1" is anything but. The presence of a concept does not guarantee its antithesis.
Also, doesn't Prager have it backwards? The European concept of freedom was very much influenced by the Americans. Generally, weren't European societies feudal? Kingdoms don't generally encourage equality among the people. The 3 estates were also not equal....
These are the same deep thinkers who think that being Governor of a state that produces 1% of the world's oil makes Bible Spice the country's foremost authority on energy.
Why are so many of my fellow Americans so incredibly stupid about Europe? We're treated like adults in most of Europe (the UK can be abit nannyish at times...) When I was in The Netherlands, I was free to smoke as much pot as I wanted and bought it legally. Now, I don't even care for smoking pot, but the fact that I as an adult, can toke up without fears of reprisals is quite nice. Same with sex. Obviously, as I am a woman, I was not interested in going to brothels, but sex in Europe is a lot more than brothels. See, they discuss sex like rational human beings there. The Netherlands and the Scandanavian countries have the lowest teen pregnancy rates in the world. I can watch adult tv from 9 pm here. The news is for grownups as well. People also tend to mind their own goddamn business here, which is why gay marriage isn't that big of deal. (The UK, once again is iffy, but civil marriage is absolutely fine.)
Is it difficult for them to be heard through the white hoods?
I hope the DNC uses this in commercials every 1/2 hour from now until election day. If there are any undecideds out there, this should help them make up their minds.
It would appear that Republicans and their supporters from god do not care about equality, because it would cause them to lose their power. The American preachers sure do give religion a very bad name.
Those words are carved into marble as you enter the United States Supreme Court.
Dennis Pregnant is just retaining water on his brain.
Is it difficult for them to be heard through the white hoods?
Well, when you consider that their vocabulary is limited to screaming "White Power"...I guess its not too much of a problem.
at Focus on the Family recently. Dobson then devoted two days of air time to the "talk" . He had a few loaded gems there as well.
More here
I have been listening to this joker for some time now. Believe me when I say this man is no friend to Democracy. He's very good at tearing this country apart. He represents everything that is wrong with this great land. He hates and hates and hates! He thinks the only people that should be able to vote in the United States are those of us who pay taxes. That would eliminate students, grandparents, the poor and God only knows who else. Trust me when I tell you this guy is a total Whack Job!
because many states have sales taxes.
Reminds me of Orwell's Aninmal Farm "All animals are created equal" is amended by the Pigs to say "All animals are created equal, but some animals are more than others. Truly biziarre argument for a 'Real American' to make.
that bothers me. What bothers me is what He knows to be true that just ain't so'.
What Prager overlooked is that Matthews was asking Bachman about members of congress or the senate that were Unamerican.
I can't remember what that's all about, but it seems to me it has something to to with America, and "American Values".
And I'm pretty sure something about all men being created equal immediately follows that.
But what do I know. Those guys are the experts.
At least one time the reich showed more finesse. They would argue that we're guaranteed equal opportunities not equal outcomes.
I can understand why people don't like the idea of gay marriage, but if you read Amendment XIV, I don't know how *anyone* can justify opposing it under our constitution. Since when did literal interpretations of our constitution become "left-wing fanaticism"?
Ever since the inmates cheated and took over and started running the Asytlum.
started imposing their sky fairy myths as law.
http://www.thewag.net/graphics/bob.jpg
Several monthes ago I acutally heard Chirs Matthews agree with himself that being anti-homosexual or anti-gay marriage was not bigotry. Of course it is. Just substitute the words african-american (or negro or any of its dirivatives (sp?)) there for gay. In 40 yrs we will all look back on this with embaressment just like we look back on Jim Crow laws and the Mann act etc etc..... I'm conviced that homosexuals will have their equal rights protected under the contitution just like everyone else, but it will just take a little more time for the next generation to assume power and all the small minded bigots to see the error of their ways or die off from old age.
'nuff said.
the crowd goes nuts...
Do we need anymore proof that the Republican party is turning into the Nazi Party 2.0?
And this is an example of why Bush, Dick and the other responsible need to be impeached and/or prosecuted for initiating a war of aggression.
It is intolerable, not the least for coming generations of Americans that not only did an American president get away with the same crimes that the Nazis were hanged for after the Nuremberg trials, but because the case was never pursued, demagogues like this Prager prick can forever get away with claiming they did nothing wrong.
Justice is blind, Truth is not.
Nah...not gonna' happen. I figure it won't be too long until Bush PARDONS himself, Cheney, Rummy, Wolfie e al
I suspect that upon a McCain victory they will spearhead a repeal of the 13th and 14th Amendments and turn back the clock on all Civil Rights progress.
"My sight is failing," she said finally. "Even when I was young I could not have read what was written there. But it appears to me that that wall looks different. Are the Seven Commandments the same as they used to be, Benjamin?"
For once Benjamin consented to break his rule, and he read out to her what was written on the wall. There was nothing there now except a single Commandment. It ran:
ALL ANIMALS ARE EQUAL
BUT SOME ANIMALS ARE MORE EQUAL THAN OTHERS
After that it did not seem strange when next day the pigs who were supervising the work of the farm all carried whips in their trotters. It did not seem strange to learn that the pigs had bought themselves a wireless set, were arranging to install a telephone, and had taken out subscriptions to John Bull, TitBits, and the Daily Mirror. It did not seem strange when Napoleon was seen strolling in the farmhouse garden with a pipe in his mouth-no, not even when the pigs took Mr. Jones's clothes out of the wardrobes and put them on, Napoleon himself appearing in a black coat, ratcatcher breeches, and leather leggings, while his favourite sow appeared in the watered silk dress which Mrs. Jones had been used to wear on Sundays.
Thanks a_protohominid for the context.-- Dram5780
It's refreshing to hear him actually come out and say it.
Animal Farm is very appropriate.
Dennis Prager sounds like he is very comfortable with poverty in America. It's people like him that scream "Get a job" at working Americans who are living in poverty when we stand together against fascism, greed, and oppression. It's people like Barack Obama who stand together with us (the poor, and middle class) who will revitalize our democracy. Because all Americans deserve a fair opportunity to realize the American dream, not just the Dennis Pragers out there.
Wraiths on wings!
I swear to god, the lengths these people will go to to justify their petty conceits. It's like they spend all their time trying to perfect a formula in which day becomes night, and when they've finally succeeded in perverting and corrupting every basic bit of humanity in themselves, they triumphally celebrate among their peers, flaunting their degradation with the mandate of their superiority complex. I can smell the stench of Michael Medved's caustic, blinking, pasted-on death mask from here. Ugh.
So if there are American values, there must be 'anti-American' values?
That's not logic 1.1 (which should be 101, to denote an introductory class ... 1.1 infers a newer version than 1.0) ... it's a syllogism.
It also infers that those values which are anti-American must be excised, but this cannot be done without forsaking the anti-American values of dictators and tyrants, so ferreting out anti-American values is inherently anti-American.
For Prager's next act, he will prove that black = white, and then promptly get killed at a nearby zebra crossing.
You didn't state why what I said isn't true.
Take any American value..."Freedom of Speech" that Congress can make no law abridging. If you believe Congress should pass laws abridging freedom of speech, you hold anti-american views.
Fill in the blank with any American value; if you hold the opposite, you hold anti-American views.
Any of our rights end where they interfere with another's.
I don't know that "your American values" are, but I would hope they are human values. Human values shouldn't need to be defined, as such, because we hold them in our hearts: they are common to all. As the USA currently TORTURES people, with approval from many, I am suspect on any "so-called American values>"
Is torture an American value Advocate123?
This is a common meme among those on the theocratic fascist right: Not all those who are citizens of the United States should be afforded the same rights as others.
Case in point, Proposition 102 here in Arizona and Proposition 8 in California and every other anti-gay initiative that has been or will be proposed in this nation. Millions are spent to deny "equal protection under the law" to millions of American citizens because the theocratic fascist right doesn't want to share.
Too fucking bad! It is time that these morons wake up to the fact that the Constitution is supposed to protect everyone, not just those who agree with their warped point of views.
Unreal. Simply unreal. Do these people even begin to understand how stupid and uninformed they really look?
There's a cancer at the center of the Republican party. And it's grown so big that it's taken over the host.
Don't worry, it'll all be over in a few days.
Here is a video of his own words. He is not talking about Human equality or inalienable rights. He is talking about economic equality.
Watch and respond.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u9WRVd1oTjI
Say whatever you want, Bachman was not referring to economic equality, she was talking about some being American, and some not being American.
Crawl back in your hole pal.
IF there ARE American values at all...then anyone can hold anti-American values.
Otherwise, there are no American values.
That's non causae, post hoc ergo propter talk, as well as false-dilemma. One can have a different view without their patriotism being questioned.
You are not my teacher. Don't tell me what I need to understand. I heard Bachman; that's all that matters here.
You folks really need to understand what he said!!!!!!!!!!!!
Prager WAS not specific ... therefore, we have to presume that it is correct to accept what he said, how he said it, SPECIFICALLY word for word, implication by implication, and intention by intention.
The video you linked tried to explain away what he said unconvincingly. The truth is, what Prager said needs no explanation as it was very very clear.
Further, it is disingenuous to imply that Obama wants to 'spread the wealth' any more than Bush wanted to spread the wealth by giving tax breaks to corporations and the wealthy. In fact, the implication is further proof that when it comes to economic issues, the right is so out of touch with main stream America that they will lose. This is after all a country of the people, by the people, and for the people, not one of the corporations, by the corporations, and for the corporations.
It slays me that the rights trickle down theory expects us to believe that by making corporations richer, it will benefit us. Corporations by their nature and by law operate on a bottom line perspective ... not on what is good for America. This explains why they move jobs offshore whenever possible as they can make more money, and they don't give a damn nor should they as they are lawfully prohibited from considering anything other than their shareholders. This is why regulation is important ... it is up to the government to enact and enforce laws to protect the American workforce. This has been terribly neglected by all facets of government for years, and if America is going to survive, the government MUST step in to insure that we get a fair shake. Taxes are just one way of doing that ... a fair tax structure is imperative, as is honest, well thought out regulation, i.e. laws.
He should be ashamed of himself, and his audience shows their ignorance by applauding his insanity and imhumanity.
Accepting that he meant human equality. In fact, listen to Prager in his own words. He cites the Declaration of Ind. and Constitution and says that is not the type of equality he is talking about.
This guy is just a racist. Simple at that.
[Quit spamming this thread with the same link. And quit calling other posters names-Sitemonitor]
Don't like people being taken out of context and called a racist. Especially when Prager made his own qualifying statement that he's not referring to human equality or inalienable rights.
Prager: ... addressed the brouhaha by telling how he would’ve dealt with MSNBC’s Chris Matthews
Yeah, but you weren't there Prager, you weren't, so STFU.
She opened her giant maw, and now America hates her. Basically she proposed a witchhunt to see which members of Congress are American, and which are un-American.
All the neo Nazis are crawling out of the woodwork this week.
Well, the rabid re-Thuglic reich-wing is openly validating this poison that is being spewed on a national level. These hate-filled human aberrations understand that currently, there is a unique climate that coddles and legitimizes their vitriolic verbal diarrhea.
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He is so cake and eating it too. I want my husband to listen to me more, but I don't want change. Nothing is wrong with my husband, except he doesn't listen to me? Sounds like Dennis might be in an abusive relationship? How can you have change without change? Be some weird republican I guess. Oh yeah, up is down, left is right, and some Americans are only 3/5ths or less of an American, the founders were right. The constitution was perfect till they started "changing" it. Stupid 1st, 2nd, so on amendments.
change New
Thu, 10/30/2008 - 14:17 — Monorail
He is so cake and eating it too
He's eating himself?
How kinky
And supple.
recognizes that someone is not allowed to cry fire in a crowded theatre, cannot foment unrest by inciting a crowd, cannot slander, nor render opinions in direct contradiction of fact, particularly when it can lead to any of the above.
I also like how after he says christians aren't secretly trying to take over the govenment you hear a loud amen.
Ecomonic inequality is bad for any economy. Wealth does not create jobs by itself, DEMAND CREATES JOBS. The simplified explanation to myself goes like this: You make and sell 'thing-a-ma-bobs' that sell for a dollar each. There is $100.00 in the 'economy' and a hundred potential customers. If each person has a dollar, then each person can afford one of your 'thing-a-ma-bobs' and sales go through the roof, profits go up with demand, you hire more workers, more jobs, more money for everyone etc etc. Now if you distribute the money under our current system, (trickle down economics: 5% of the people have 50% of the money) then 5 people have $10.00 each and the other 95 are left with about .50 cent each. Well now you'll only sell 5 'thing-a-ma-bobs' at most, instead of a 100. Sales plummet, you have to lay off people, profits fall, no job creation etc etc. Very simplfied, but even a dumb o' carpenter like me can understand that.
Uhm...weren't our founding fathers from Europe? Wouldn't it make sense that some of the documents they created included some influence from what would have been the only Western political and philosophical ideas of the time? Those from the UK predominantly?
Perhaps the right is trying to make some distinction about modern day Europe and America. But the problem starts when they base their arguments on the Constitution. "America" is a concept. Being "American" is in part believing in said concept. The primary core of the concept was equality. Getting out from under the rule of the King.
Now, we have had to do some work...that continues to this day...to address socio-economic equality. That, to me, will result in the ultimate equality of allowing every American to believe that they have the ability to dream and achieve. And then, based on your own hard work, you are entitled to what you earn.
I don't know what's so bad about France. Art, music, cuisine, trains that run well, good infrastructure. Yeah, it must suck to live someplace like that.
I notice that quite a few people are trying to insert facts into this conversation. Let me just remind you that that will work as long as you aren't actually talking to any of these brain-dead troglodytes.
*
Weren't they these guys?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4qHX493bB3U
Hey what's up with all the snarky comments. Makes 'us' just as bad as 'them'. Let's talk issues not smack.
You been watching the GOP these last 8 years? Being nice doesn't work.
I thought most guys who did smack couldn't talk, just drool and babble.
Prager is master of the logical-sounding verbal trick. No one denies that anti-Americans can exist. What Bachmann did was to imply that Congress and blue states are crawling with them. And Prager stands with her.
he's absolutely right.
And that Constitution thing everyone keeps talking about? It's just "a piece of paper."
Plain and simple the American Constitution states,..."that all men are created equal".
This man is a blithering idiot; that he is given any credence speaks only to his equally supportive idiots.
His radio show is a pompous self serving propaganda.
This throwback mindless, uneducated whining gas in a windstorm elaborates pointless issues that have no merit and are not worth listening to; I stopped years ago. I only hear of his rants when he sticks his foot so deep in his mouth that it makes national news.
Who gives a rat's butt what this clown thinks. Let him, Limbaugh, Hannity, OReilly, and the numerous wind bags across America, run out of the fould air that is in their hateful GOP christian souls.
yeah,its lucky for chris matthews he doesn't have to face prager in a televised debate-oh the hallowed halls of oxford tremble at the mere mention of prager's name -a man whose rhetorical skills can be compared with lewis's left hook,and koufax's curve ball.this genius can disconnect the usa from its european roots,and reduce the french and american revolutions to one sentence apiece.ol' russ kirk must be turning over in his grave atop piety hill.to paraphrase lenny bruce,denny's temerity is thrilling.
just for the record,just because nearly all propositions are arguable,and you can create a logical space for congresswoman bachmann's "anti american american," doesn't justify her attempt to bring back the huac,or whatever.who is to decide what is ant-american anyway? finally,how can dennis so glibly separate a proposition from its mode of expression,let alone the real world consequences of adopting it? i humbly suggest that denny might have missed the philosophy lecture the day this was discussed.bachmann is a naked demagogue and prager needs to get up a lot earlier and eat an extra bowl of intellectual wheaties if he really intends to defend her.
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