Hardball: Who Has A Plan And Who Is Being Ideological?
By Nicole Belle Thursday Oct 30, 2008 4:30am
It's getting harder and harder to be a Republican flack these days. Poor Ed "Who the F@&# is that guy?" Rogers summons up his very best Lee Atwater training to throw whatever he can at Barack Obama, but the uncharacteristically pugnacious Bob Shrum isn't having it.
Even Chris Matthews is finding the whole thing laughable:
ED ROGERS: Obama, rather, is able to get away with platitudes. He says things like, you know, we‘re for justice, and we‘re for peace, and we‘re for prosperity.
MATTHEWS: No, he says unity. (LAUGHTER) He says unity.
ROGERS: Unity is a platitude.
MATTHEWS: It is?
ROGERS: Yes, it is. (CROSSTALK)
MATTHEWS: Well, why doesn‘t your party use it?
Oh boy, that's just not flying, Eddie, is it? Undaunted, Rogers launches into the tired redistribution of income meme (Um, hello, Ed? Social Security, Medicare, fire departments, police departments...what do you think those are, you hack?), claiming that Obama doesn't have a plan--just an ideological belief.
Teh stoopid, it hurts. What is "you don't raise taxes" except ideological mumbo jumbo, especially when McCain is spinning mightily to distance himself from Bush?
ROGERS: McCain is a legitimate opponent of the status quo in Washington, period. He should get credit for that. He always has been. He‘s not for more of the same. And, yet...
MATTHEWS: He said he supports the Bush tax cuts.
Seriously, Ed. This desperate flailing about just isn't working. Even Chris Matthews, for whom politics trumps all, isn't buying it.
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Only caught part of this show...that Rogers guy looked like he was goona lose it.
Or Morning is it?
Ya catch that Obama thingy last night?
Talk about powereful! My bro and me watched, and got all teary eyed and sniffley...and we're beer swillin', mud truck building rednecks...go figure.
Every one of which was extremely happy about what he had to say.
The comment most heard .... "Maybe there is Hope for the World."
Yeah that one struck me right in the ol' ticker.
The production values were too slick for my taste, it robbed it of any authenticity.
I didn't think it was too slick...
I think it was very professionally done, tasteful, and not over the top.
Had McCain done one....LOL...imagine what kinda trainwreck that would have been...
What do you want, puppets and stick figures?
It was VERY authentic -- just like Barack Obama.
I just fell out of my chair laughing.........
I laughed my ass off
I never knew his name. I was always struck by how bitter and pissed he looked. Like he'd just swallowed some castor oil. Or had his toys taken from him. Just a pugnacious little twerp. Always combative, always full of bluster and venom.
Hey, Ed: Shove it, loser.
In general, contemporary social democrats support:
☺ A mixed economy consisting mainly of private enterprise, but with government owned or subsidized programs of education, healthcare, child care and related services for all citizens.
☺ Government bodies that regulate private enterprise in the interests of workers, consumers and fair competition.
☺ Advocacy of fair trade over free trade.
☺ An extensive system of social security (although usually not to the extent advocated by democratic socialists or other socialist groups), with the stated goal of counteracting the effects of poverty and insuring the citizens against loss of income following illness, unemployment or retirement.
☺ Moderate to high levels of taxation (through a value-added and/or progressive taxation system) to fund government expenditure.
Social democrats also tend to support:
☺ Environmental protection laws (although not always to the extent advocated by Greens), such as combating global warming and increasing alternative energy funding.
☺ Support for immigration and multiculturalism.
☺ A secular and progressive social policy, although this varies markedly in degree.
☺ A foreign policy supporting the promotion of democracy, the protection of human rights and where possible, effective multilateralism.
☺ As well as human rights, social democrats also support social rights, civil rights and civil liberties.
Not to be Pushing my own Post here, But I would bet almost ALL R's have no idea what Social Democracy is. I'd love to see some Pundit grill them on these points above.
AUSTRALIA ENDORSES OBAMA.
A survey where participants were asked: If you could vote in the US elections, who would you vote for? 70% were for Obama. How would you like those figures? As we are pretty much a social democratic country right now, we would be glad to see a visit from President Obama down under.
Would like to see Obama in the Whitehouse.
Hell yes!!!Definitely !!! AS a Canadian, I pray for his landslide win on Tuesday!
I second that Hell yes. As a Canadian the thought of McCain in office scares the bejeebus out of me. Obama and the reforms he says he'll bring in will be a good thing for Canada as it will undermine the perceived legitimacy, in the minds of Canadians, of the Harper Conservative world view.
No, McCain is a legitimate opponent of the status quo in Washington within the status quo of Washington. And frankly that just doesn't count for much when the future of the nation is at stake.
Its like he's saying he's the least asshole of the asshole club. Great but he's still an asshole.
Is fixing the American Political Toilet and soon all the Turds will be flushed.
Joe the Plumber is getting himself an agent and contract to do a country music album. Fu*k, sometimes the phrase "only in America" is just plain funny.
Does Joe play the plunger while singing?
was the suggested title for Joe the Plumber's book for which his lawyer is approaching publishers.
Doesn't that Rogers guy look like some sort of bible belt preacher? I mean that's all I can think of when I look at him. Jesus, he totally lost it. Was that the rant of a very frustrated doofus or what?
Oh, and top of the morning to you Bangkok Bob. :)
HAIR!! I think there must be some place called the Evangelical Hair-Club.
HE "borrowed" it from Falwell.
What was that thing on his wrist...I saw it when he was flailing about.
From Closeted Gays Anon. Represents 1 month without blowing a stranger in an airport.
Nasty!
That might explain why he was so crabby.
Maybe he should call Larry Craig to find out how he kicked the cock habit...
must be, he jonesing!
They promise not to have sex until they get married, but poor Ed can't because of that darned gay-marriage thingie.
They just can't stand themselves, can they?
... WWJD bracelet.
Simply proves that wearing the symbol of a belief on your wrist or lapel doesn't make you a good Christian or a 'real' American.
Maybe he uses it to snap his young male interns on the backside...ya know...in "playful locker-room setting" type thing.
.......Morning POP
On tv I just saw an black lady being interviewed. They asked her what would happen if Obama should lose this race. She immediately teared up and couldn't say anything. I hope America doesn't let that lady down.
Wow...
America's track record of not letting people down is not good right now.
didn't let Philly down, so I see that as an omen that Obama will welcome the champs to the W.H.
I've been vacillating back and forth over the last few days - anticipating an Obama win - fretting that the repugs will steal the election. In the event that the latter happens, what next? Do we just take it like we did in '04 and '00? How about a general strike if McShame wins? Everyone who voted for Obama could stay home from work and keep their kids home from school. Do ya think that would get anyone's attention?
I doubt it. Everyone will be crying so hard they probably wouldn't even notice.
PARK Our Cars on The Freeways in a Pretend Breakdown. Shut Down The Country. (in the case of a fixed or rigged election)
Most of us will be too drunk to drive
There has to be some way of demonstrating that the election was stolen if that's what happens. A general strike, especially in the contested states could do that.
But to that i would say Amen. (albeit in a purely Secular manner ...LOL)
Mornin' Bob. I used to post as Yellow Elephant Safari on the old site. Didn't know if you knew that or not.
Just when we thought Chris Matthews had some sense, he invites vermin like this guy and Tom Delay on his show. Delay looked bad. Looked like he hadn't had his regular skin peel for some time.
Didn't he?More liver spots than me and I'm friggin OLD.
His face used to look all shiny like he had just oiled it or something, but man, he looks rough now.
Like all snakes, his new skin is shiny right after he sheds the old skin.
You gotta love Tweety the liberal now. I can remember him getting a chubby over Bush landing on a flight deck for 'Mission Accomplished' day. How times have changed,...
That was before an Obama speech sent a chill or something up Chris' leg. Chris is easily stimulate-able when it comes to men.
I don't get it. A tax break for the wealthy is not redistribution, while a tax cut for the middle class and poor is. In fact to hear the rabid right talk about it, this is socialism.
This is why the average American is fed up with the rabid right, a total lack of fairness, honesty, and leadership on issues that pertain to us.
How long do average Americans have to wait after all for trickle down economics to work? My opinion is forever, as I believe it will never work. Those who believe otherwise need only look at the current result for proof that things need changing.
So far all McCain has shown us is more of the same. More division between Americans, more incitement of FEAR, and less honesty. We are sick and tired of this neglect of responsibility, and really really tired of the dishonesty. I think the current leadership views the average American as stupid and too lazy to get involved with government. The turnout this election (I believe and hope) will show them just how wrong they were to TAKE US FOR GRANTED.
How long do average Americans have to wait after all for trickle down economics to work?
********************************************************
Let's face it...we've been hearing about "trickle-down economics" for over a quarter of a century now (since Reagan, for pity's sake!) and most of us have yet to see anything remotely proportional to the incredible gains which the uber-wealthy have made in that space of time. In fact, considering the problems which have of late been increasingly afflicting people in the middle class (stagnating wages, losing their homes, going without health insurance, being unable to afford college, being unable to afford health care, etc.) I think the very best that can possibly be said about "trickle-down economics" is that it has proven itself to be a failure of epic proportions -- and the worst, that it was nothing more than an elaborate con job.
Even if those who supported the theory of "trickle-down economics" have genuinely done so out of good intentions -- a point which is subject to debate! -- the proverbial road to Hell is said to be paved with good intentions and what works well in theory often does not work even half as well in practice. In my opinion, the fatal flaw in the theory of "trickle-down economics" is the inherent assumption that the majority of human beings are ethical and can be trusted to do the right thing (in this case, use financial incentives to create more jobs and contribute to our infrastructure) -- when any student of human nature and/or social psychology should be able to tell you that the course of huuman history does not bear this out. Quite the reverse, in fact -- history has shown time and time again that the people who have power in a society (or in this case money, since money is power in our society) are typically reluctant in the extreme to either surrender it or share it and sometimes will resort to any means in their power to avoid doing so. Social psychologists have conducted experiments demonstrating that when people are offered the freedom to make a choice without fear of penalty between an ethical decision and a selfish decision, the majority will choose self-interest over ethics. It's not hard to get people to make ethical decisions when they personally gain some kind of secondary benefit from doing so (even if that benefit is simply avoiding punishment) -- but it's much harder to get them to do so when it doesn't benefit them in any way or when it costs them. Welcome to human nature!
the offspring of Dana Carvey's "the Church-Lady" and Paul Williams.
That's rough!!! LOL!!
SATAN?????
that would re-distribute the wealth, and if it were done in protest to bush´s war, and obama´s bank bailout bonanza, etc, the cancerous government would fall, and we could start over... i have no representation anyway, except for maybe bernie sanders... i am gonna vote for the socialist ticket...
These idiots look so pathetic when subjected to any kind of scrutiny.
I'm just hoping Shrubby McTortureboy doesn't come up with a reason to declare martial law...our family's making plans, just in case, but damn. Can honestly say this is the first time in my life I actually believe our government is totally and completely capable of something so heinous and underhanded.
I'm kinda worried about that too...but not as much as I was when I first heard that rumor...
I think Bush wants out...he has created a clusterfuck of truly EPIC propprtions...and with his track record...fixing messes ain't his thing.
This is true....Maybe the chimp-in-chief will just trot on out of there with his tail between his bandy old legs. I say let them all....once the new administration is firmly ensconced, then the civil trials can begin ;)
Obama was not my first choice, actually, but the more we listened to his plans, and the more I read about the legislation he'd voted for and WHY he'd chosen to either vote 'no' or 'present' on the ones he had has finally convinced me he's the best man for the job at this point in our history. We really need someone with integrity and an actual 'give a shit' about the rest of us!
AGREE!
Keep watching out - we haven't seen teh October Surprise yet. What's it gonna be - a new video from bin Laden? Another attack on "the homeland" (arranged by Cheney)? Or some shmoe lying about a "relationship" with Obama?
Vote now, America!
I think they've tried several "October Surprises" already, and all have failed miserably.
I think they've run out of ideas and are resigning themselves to failure this election.
I already voted for Obama - I hope mine counts.
I think bush is eager to hand off this mess he's made and get the hell out of Dodge. He's tired of playing president. He wore the edges off his blocks and he's torn all the pages out of his comic books. He's ready to go play somewhere else. No one likes him any more and he knows it.
Time for him to take his crayons and GO. HOME.
http://www.bushspeaks.com/img/bush_sniffs.jpg
The only thing that can save McCain would be a skinhead whackjob scoring on election day.
- Biden can't succeed Obama because the election was never completed, and Obama never inaugurated, therefore, he's not the president.
- Bush declares martial law.
- The election is 'rescheduled,' but even if Biden moves to the top of the ticket, the GOP will call for a new round of debates and abbreviated campaign so everything is 'fair.'
Naturally, this won't be done during the holiday season, so it takes us into 2009. Bush's third term will be a de facto occurrence, and there will continue to be 'concerns' that keep elections from happening.
Cheney takes over declaring the new 1000 year Reich.
Think about it. Chimpy has pretty much come to the end of his shelf life and the neocons have no further use for him except to make him a martyr to the cause.
And would be the beginning of the end of America.
...and apparently to some other people as well, such as Naomi Wolf ("The End of America: Letters To A Young Patriot"). I've said at least once before that if -- as some people suspect -- there are those within the Bush administration and/or the Republican Party who are inclined to view just about anything and everything as justifiable including the use of "false flags" in order to stay in power, it's now or never and this is virtually an ideal time for them to strike.
I hope and pray that this potential does not manifest. After all, if memory serves, Bush signed a presidential directive last year which conveniently gives him the prerogative to declare martial law in the event of a national emergency as well as the authority to define exactly what constitutes a national emergency without consulting Congress and in such a way which supposedly does an end-run around the National Emergency Act giving Congress the right to overrule the President if he should make inappropriate decisions. When you combine this with the Military Commissions Act of 2006 and the fact that the administration has also made changes to the Posse Comitatus Act designed to prevent the military from being utilized as law enforcement...well...you have to admit that the structural framework which could be used to support an authoritarian regime is most definitely in place, regardless of what the actual intention behind all these actions was (the proverbial road to Hell, after all, is said to be paved with good intentions). That in itself should be more than sufficient reason to be disturbed by it.
C&L posts Chris Matthews whose either directly or with an assist tearing down the Repubs (and another one a few stories below on C&L). When, oh when, do you stop denigrating this man? He believes what he believes, he's goofy at times, but c'mon, give him a break!
Usually, the man does not care if you are spewing complete bullshit or not, as long as you are doing it convincingly. Watch the clip of him on the Daily Show pimping his book about life being a campaign. Chris is in it for the show. No content, just the showmanship. The gushing over Fred Thompson, Tom Delay, and Chimpy McFlightsuit with the mission accomplished banner. It's sickening.
If he seems tolerable at this moment in time, wait until the wind changes direction and there will be Chris ...celebrating the fact that we are all being lied to. He doesn't care. It's all about the campaign, not about what's right and what's wrong. Stop denigrating Chris Matthews? Never.
looked to me like that guy´s head was about to explode at the end there... now that is a hardball i´d watch...
I saw this, that Rogers guy was very angry, he sounded like a complete buffoon and he knew it. Why are wingnuts always so angry and snipy? I know why they are now because they know they are failures and the people have finally figured that out, but even before that they were angry then too.
This is one angry man and I'm sure we'll be seeing hoardes of angry Republicans in less than a week.
They see the race slipping out of their control and they are angry. Whomever initiates "anger management" classes in Washington for these political has beens and livid hacks will make a fortune.
A friend of mine just bought a nice car and some nice crap from a guy that's leaving the Bush administration and DC in haste. He got a lot of nice stuff, cheap.
The angry idiot is who they appeal to. Try to have a rational discussion with a limbaugh fan. Try to talk to a guy who thinks that hannity or o'reilly are the fount of all wisdom. It's impossible. They have been conditioned to hate anything and everyone considered to be the "other" and they can't see anything beyond that.
Who TF is this professional moron? He came totally ungled by the end of his few moments of fame and went away looking like not only a mental midget spouting inane talking points sans substance but like a moron as well. I've never seen this fool before and I suspect that we will not be seeing him ever again.
This total "smackdown" by Matthews just shows how empty rhetoric and GOP "talking point repitition" without substance will make a blathering fool out of anyone.
RIP: Ed Rogers
Another Republican "sicko" bites the dust. Wonder where Nancy Photenauer is these days? I suspect that Ed Rogers will be joining her soon - the land of total disgrace and irrelevancy.
Tourette's
Tou·rette's syndrome (t‹-rµts“) or Tou·rette syndrome (-rµt“) n. A severe neurological disorder characterized by multiple facial and other body tics, usually beginning in childhood or adolescence and often accompanied by grunts and compulsive utterances, as of interjections and obscenities. Also called Gilles de la Tourette syndrome. [After Georges Gilles de la Tourette (1857-1904), French physician.]
Oh god, please don't mention Photenauer. I haven't seen her around for a while and it's been so pleasant. Hopefully, she's been turned out to pasture and she'll stay there.
With a stick up her butt.
the GOP is totally crazed. It's over and they know it.
I saw Scarborough this morning...what bullshit. He justified, against the facts, having Chuck Todd give McCain ALL the up for grabs states on his little electronic electoral map...and McCain STILL can't win! LOLOL!
The whole lot of them looked like they should be put on suicide watch!
Like or dislike Buchanan...the bottom line is he is a smart political mind. He can put a GOP happy face on ANYTHING...but even he pretty much admitted...it's OVER.
In the MSNBC Studio's. I mean, he's on morning noon and night.
I'm enjoying watching the Rethugs implode and explode. Such deserved karma! It's all fun, just hoping they don't resort to their violent side.
I'm not enjoying anything until the election is over and it's announced that Obama won. Then and only then will I open a can of Coke, pop some popcorn and watch the hysterics.
I would agree with that. This next week is a very dangerous time.
You sure know how to party hardy POP. Hope that's not Diet Coke. An Obama win calls for the best.
That's the day time celebration. Night time is a whole different spread. And oh hell yes, it's gonna be the best stuff!
I've got a bottle of 30 year old single malt that I've been saving for a special occasion.
with the finest 40 oz bottle of malt liquor, 3 bucks can buy!
40 oz's to freedom baby!
We are going to an "Oh, Yes we f$%@@#ing can!" party on Tuesday. We have friends from the UK who have come in for the occasion.
Not sure what I'm gonna do just yet...but I'm not celebratin until Obama's victory is secure.
One partygoer has threatened to poop on the television if McCain wins. It would be quite a feat as it is flatscreen and mounted on the wall. I sure hope he doesn't have to make the attempt!
such activity, lol!
If it was an old tube tv...I'd say go for it...
Me, too, only mine's gonna be laced with a shot of rum!
There was undisguised hostility toward the federal government and the FBI at the Stevens event, with people wearing T-shirts that said "F*#@ the feds, vote for Ted."
"Anyone who thinks you can get a fair trial in the heart of liberalism, Washington, D.C., is smoking dope. He was railroaded," said Mark Kelliher, a retired engineer.
http://www.adn.com/ted-stevens/story/572441.html
do the federal trial and the federal time when your convicted of obvious felonies. I saw a bunch of these people. It won't surprise me one bit when this "railroaded" felon is re-elected. Palin and Stevens, come on Alaska!
The funny thing is that Stevens can't vote for himself because he is a convicted felon.
...is the first person I'd heard use Obama's middle name, using it as a defamation. Classic fear-mongering. He was so smug with his little "surprise," I wanted to smack him right then. I hadn't seen him back on MSNBC since that time and was hoping that they'd seen the light, that this little redneck (with all due apologies to rednecks) wouldn't be back. I was disappointed to see him back on MSNBC, spewing the same bull; I'm glad Tweety gave him a little aggro, although not enough, IMO.
I don't know why all these hosts allow people like Rogers to just talk constantly and spew crap. If I were the host I'd end up saying, "OK, Ed, you've had your chance to rant. Now shut up and let Bob talk." And then, when Bob had gotten 5 words in and Ed interrupted and began ranting again, just cut his mike until Bob was finished. Then I'd tell Ed that if he couldn't be respectful and civil, that would happen every time. Eventually, these guys would get it through their thick skulls that if they wanted to have their opinion heard, they'd have to let the other side be heard as well. As it is, we only hear the ranting right because THEY WON'T STOP TALKING!
by putting the wingnuts on the air. The contrast between those ditto-heads and the democrat's spokespeople calm and reasoned arguments is enough to make Obama win big time.
The underlying message is clear. "The nation is ailing and we need the adults to be in charge. Look here! We got a real adult...Barrack Obama."
he is a good republican! no reason, no accountability, no honesty, no integrity, and no intelligence!
A very good republican indeed!
You must watch the last 30 seconds, when Rogers throws in code language: "Obama hasn't done a hard thing in his life", and Shrum is sharp enough to call him on it, recognizing it as the tired, racist "shifless" meme.
Can you imagine the entertainment we will have when loud talking repub talk-bullies, like rogers, turn their vitriol on each other - which will begin, if the polls are right, on Nov 5th.
Can you imagine rogers yelling at hannity yelling at coulter yelling at bachmann yelling at palin yelling at beck yelling at o'really yelling at ingraham yelling at crowley yelling at .. .
I always get Ed Robers and Terry Jeffries mixed up. Both have junior high school girl voices and both whine and spin beyond any reasonable belief. They must be the only guys available on busy news days when the sharp guys are all booked up. That goes for Schrum too. He hasn't been on winning DEM campaign ever, never has any real insight and is about as fresh as Pat Buchanan.
just got a call..a friend of mine died last night...he was only 49...
died in his sleep...least he went peacefully...
man...what's next?
Oh, so sorry to hear that. Keep your chin up.
tryin to...just...why does bad shit happen in groups?
Ya know..everything just piles on..it's hard to deal with...why can't it be spread out
For a proper Irish Wake.
We shall get good and soused in his memory.
..."who's against unity?" You know, that platitude that's not supposed to mean anything when Obama says it. Non-unity is the central message of the Republican campaign, the only one that's been consistent. The "real Americans" against the "anti-Americans" which includes Christians who don't subscribe to a very specific Christian view, New Yorkers, people in Washington, northern Virginia, any blue state, Muslims--make that all non-Christians, Barack Obama. Oh, and it goes without saying that the rest of the world is also the enemy.
Hey, has "What the F#@K guy" ever graduated Harvard? I guess that isn't hard, as that prick probably has 20 PhDs and just hasn't gotten around to letting everyone else know the cure for cancer that he discovered three years ago.
WFT? what constitutes 'hard' to the repugs anyway?
Wow. The world will absolutely be a better place for our kids and Grandchildren when Reslug morons like Eddie (in his teddy) can't spew the ignorant, talking point bullshit and lies he habitually spits out.
You can grow your way out of a deficit!!
What's 10 trillion dollars these days?
haha
Who the f@%k is that guy?
what the obama supporters fail to mention is that the tax cuts to those making more than 250K dont go to the creation of more jobs. they go to the pay increase of ceos and executives, and creation of more personal wealth for the already wealthy.
in japan, ceos get paid 10x the average employee. in the u.s. ceos get paid 400X. how many jobs could the difference create?
that's why it's important to note that obama is actually proposing a TAX CREDIT for those businesses that ACTUALLY CREATE JOBS.
sales taxes dont go to the government. they are incentives for the business to grow their business and create more jobs but they dont do that. they keep these revenues to increase pay for their executives.
"ROGERS: McCain is a legitimate opponent of the status quo in Washington, period. He should get credit for that. He always has been. He‘s not for more of the same. And, yet..."
Two-and-a-half decades MAKES one the status quo. 1984 all over again.
Nice to see Rogers flash his bigoted colors near the end.
Seriously, has any McCain surrogate made a significant claim in the past three weeks that hasn't been highly deceptive if not an outright lie?
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