Supreme Court Sides With Prop 8 Proponents--It's Okay To Be A Homophobe

(h/t Bluegal) Progressive radio host Karel on San Francisco's Green960 on the cowards behind the opposition for gay marriage.
The Supreme Court of the United States struck a blow against civil liberties and transparency by not one, but two decisions protecting the privacy of those who don't believe in Equal Protection under the 14th Amendment. Ironic, non?
The Supreme Court on Friday intervened for the second time this week in a question of whether those who oppose expanding gay rights face threats and harassment by public disclosure of their views.
The court agreed to decide whether it was unconstitutional for the state of Washington to make public the names of 138,500 voters who signed a petition for a referendum on whether to overturn a state "everything-but-marriage" law. The statute expanded rights for those who entered into domestic partnerships, both homosexual and heterosexual.
The group that championed the referendum said rival organizations planned to make the petitioners' names available on the Internet and subject them to "threats, harassment and reprisals." Those groups denied such intentions, and the state said its public-records law required disclosure of the names as part of the transparency that comes with democratic participation.[..]
But the petition-signers' names have not been disclosed. The Supreme Court blocked the release in October while considering whether the case presented a significant question about political speech. The U.S. Court of Appeals for the 9th Circuit said Washington's public-records law did not violate constitutional protections.[..]
The court earlier this week ruled 5 to 4 that a federal judge presiding over a trial in San Francisco contesting California's voter-approved ban on same-sex marriage may not transmit video of the proceedings to other courthouses. Proponents of Proposition 8 asked the court to act, warning of "harassment, economic reprisal, threat and even physical violence" against witnesses in the case if the video were widely distributed.
The conservative Christian group that started the petition drive in Washington is represented by James Bopp Jr., who has frequently challenged campaign finance laws before the Supreme Court. He told the justices in court papers the issue of whether confidentiality should be protected "is arising with great frequency across the country, as changes in technology have made it possible for individuals and groups seeking to prevent public debate from occurring to obtain the names and contact information of petition signers and post that information online to encourage harassment and intimidation."
Harassment and intimidation? You mean, like tying a homophobe to a fence post and beating him to death? Oh wait, it didn't happen that way, did it? It's not people who believe in equal protection that are advocating violence, you cowards, it's your group.
Worst yet, the decision--with more than a little whiff of the ridiculous "one off" justification of Bush v. Gore--signals exactly where SCOTUS is headed if this is appealed to the federal level:
Twice in the course of its 17-page opinion, the five-justice majority went out of its way to declare it was not ruling on the propriety of cameras in the courtroom. In another instance, the opinion digressed to recall that, when the trial of the Oklahoma City bombers was moved to Denver, Congress acted to ensure that the survivors and victims' families unable to go to Colorado would be able to watch the proceedings on closed-circuit TV.
"Reasonable minds," the majority wrote, can differ over televised court proceedings. Fair enough, but some significant number of them also will be troubled by the five justices' blanket adoption of the assertion that televising the testimony of expert witnesses called to defend Proposition 8 -- including those being paid -- would create "irreparable harm" by exposing them to embarrassment and "harassment." If you accept that, you're on a path whose logical conclusion is secret testimony. It's easy enough to excerpt trial transcripts and post them on the Web. Doesn't that "expose" witnesses in any socially or politically divisive case to potential harassment? Television may accelerate the process, but the way text and photographs ricochet around the Internet these days, it's just a matter of degree -- and a rapidly diminishing one at that.
Moreover, as Justice Stephen G. Breyer pointed out in a 10-page dissent, in this particular case the witnesses "are all experts or advocates who have either already appeared on television or Internet broadcasts, already toured the state advocating a 'yes' vote on Proposition 8." What is there about these proceedings that will make them more vulnerable to reprisals than they already are?
That brings us squarely to the majority's troubling subtextual suggestion that there is something uniquely threatening -- even sinister -- about the activities of gays and lesbians advocating marriage equality. It's true that a tiny handful of activists on the movement's fringe have behaved outrageously toward opponents of same-sex marriage, but that criticism can't be made against the plaintiffs in this case. They've simply sought vindication of their rights through the courts, the very definition of law-abiding.
The five justices, however, went out of their way to incorporate into their ruling citations from newspaper accounts of dubious and abusive behavior associated with the marriage-equality fringe -- from "confrontational phone calls and messages" to business boycotts to "vandalism and physical violence" and even "death threats." As this column has argued on several occasions, no such conduct can or should be tolerated. Can it really be the case, though, that expert witnesses testifying against marriage equality are at greater risk of retribution than, say, a doctor testifying against Big Pharma in a multibillion-dollar drug liability case?



Civil Rights issues should not be subject to referendum. People will always vote according to their prejudices. Can you imagine if the Civil Rights movement in this country were subject to referendum? African Americans would still be using separate restrooms and riding the back of the bus.
If you have selfish, ignorant citizens, you're gonna get selfish, ignorant leaders.
George Carlin
why on earth do supreme court judges not understand that the majority should NOT be allowed to vote on the rights of the minority??? seriously, how hard is this to understand?
Well the Authoritarian right has seen what happens to their favorite hate-mongers like Beck, when Progressives go after advertisers. Its hard to distribute pounds of BS when no one is paying you to do so.
I can hear them now, whining " it's not fair to hit us in our pocketbook,... wahhh... "
Since the only thing an Authoritarian Fascist loves is wealth and money, as to them there is nothing more sacred. Therefore it must be protected, above such silly notions as "humanity" or "equal rights", or even Democracy itself.
... the squirrels who were defacing the gay pride/rainbow flag of the first lesbian couple to be married in Vallejo. (Someone did this several times, tossing coffee and once, what appeared to be motor oil, on the flag. The Vallejo PD did nothing; the attacks stopped after the incidents received coverage in the local paper - where drive-by conservatives unloaded both barrels of hate and 'Christian' charity - and TV.)
... the Easter Bunny who went through our neighborhood and stole over a dozen 'No on Proposition 8' signs.
... another town where the mayor (Osby Davis) opined that gays weren't going to heaven, and wondered what the big fuss was over calling Vallejo 'The City of God.'
Who and what are we protecting, again?
http://www.denverpost.com/search/ci_14204159
Focus on the Family buys superbowl spot. This shit really pisses me off. Remember the very tepid ad that briefly showed two women embracing and spoke of equal treatment for everyone? they wouldn't run it because the said they don't do advocacy commercials.
So these evangelical repubs have control of the supreme court, the democrat congress, the president (put off DADT policy for the military), the media, and the tone for corporation's public disposition on the issues.
Good to hear this radio host cutting through the BS.
as the right wing. If you actually looked closer at Supreme Court history, you'd know that you have the Republican appointed justices to thank for saving abortion rights. And no, the Democrats still control the Democratic Congress. They are just spineless- they didn't have the balls to bring Gitmo detainees to the U.S. and they sacrificed principles (a woman's right to choose).
Just because Congress+Obama don't do exactly what progressives want doesn't mean they are controlled by Republicans. Contrary to what you may think, it is people like me in the CENTER who elected Obama and the Dems and people like me who will vote them out if they continue what they're doing. You all will vote for whoever has a D in front of their name and the Democrats know it. Our (independent) votes are more valuable to them than yours.
Don't forget who's base you are standing on top of to elect a democratic candidate. When is the last time we saw an independent elected as president. Chill Sammy, chill.
that's precisely why we are everything. Since we are not a base, the Democrats (or Republicans) cannot necessarily count on our support. Since we don't blindly tie ourselves to a party, we control the direction of elections (hey that rhymes).
But yes, our constitution favors a two-party system, based on the way electoral votes are earned. You probably will not see an 'independent' candidate elected president of this country, especially since Dems/Reps are so bitterly divided and growing more partisan every day.
...think of a single legal justification for this... It's really a matter judge's choice on this sort of thing. I've never heard of an appeal on the use of cameras (allowed by the presiding judge or not) that went forward... It's odd that the court didn't kick it back with a hearty "This is not a SCOTUS issue..."
Because they have been paid or instructed to decide a certain way on the issue.
... that the same arguments (grandstanding, safety) are the ones being paraded around against putting terrorist suspects/Gitmo detainees on trial in federal court.
I think our country may be dying.
As far as I'm concerned it's already dead.
We have let the ideals of this country be subverted by those with uncivil agendas.
And how many times does that have to happen before we realize that the ideals this country were founded upon are no longer on the agenda as a nation?
here yet. After the financial crisis rears it's ugly head. The big drop will not be for another 9 to 18 months when the credit card companies finally call uncle and start collecting on debt in earnest or when the banks reveal the actual number of homes at risk of or in foreclosure after that point life will be interesting to say the least.
Hopefully then the sheeple will figure out that it is the conservative make the rich wealthier policies that got hem into this mess and there will be a backlash.
Why do you think they paid for the teabagger movement? They are trying to preempt the backlash with a faux grassroots movement.
Well, it's not illegal...
I'm not really sure what I'm supposed to get upset about here.
Do we really need/want a public list of these people?
Why?
I'd rather protect people's right to be anonymous idiots...
They are keeping from having equal protection?
If they can't stand up behind their actions, then maybe the actions shouldn't be taken.
The petitioners lost. Seems you want to add a Scarlet Letter to the mix...
What I'm hearing from you is a drumbeat for retribution, Ms. Belle.
A better response would be "If you are afraid to stand publicly for your convictions, then go ahead and hide. The rest of us will lead the way."
I see no advantage in forcing this list public.
I suggest you concentrate your efforts on future petitions/referendums...
No, I don't advocate retribution. And moreover, history shows that those fighting for equal rights tend not to be the ones who act out against those who are fighting to keep them from having it.
However, I don't think it's fair to protect the privacy of those who would deny equal protections to others, especially based on tenuous logic and non-existent threats.
And you're not getting it. SCOTUS is clearly signaling which way they will be ruling when this comes before them.
Signing a petition is a public declaration of support for an issue. Its not a vote.
I don't know if there's a definitive precedent in stare decisis stating that proposition.
Although votes are explicitly in secret, a petition might still have an expected right to privacy.
Because foreknowledge of potential official snooping might disrupt the overall process known in the First Amendment of the Constitution as the right to petition the government for redress of grievances.
Diabolus est Deus Inversus
Why would you need a decision to support the accepted definition of something unless you're trying to pervert its meaning?
Given the purpose of a petition there would be no reason to expect a right to privacy. Its a public document that is used to show PUBLIC support for a position. I would back that up by asking why then do petition require verifiable signatures instead of just check marks?
But the distinction could lie in public as in open and public as in separate from government interests.
We have public voting but the records of how we voted are private.
I thought about the distinction you said about petitions, but like votes, some government officials are going to have to see them to count them, but it's like a need-to-know basis.
Diabolus est Deus Inversus
And I think for what the petition was used for (a public show of support for a proposition) you'd be hard pressed to honestly say anyone had an expectation of privacy. I'd argue that while votes should be secret, the whole point of the petition process is to specifically show public support for a proposition A private show of public support is an oxymoron and antithetical to the idea of petitions (at least in the context of getting items on the ballot)
I'd move that after the fact anyone who doesn't want their support for the petition made public should have their name stricken from the petition.
But you state that this petition is a list of people who advocate violence against gays.
Aren't you making their case for them?
I think the main point is that the referendum could be based on fraud if the names are not verifiable.
they can be verified by anyone. Who is responsible for validation the names. It can't be the current government officials since they have a basis. It can't be the group that collects the names. It must be the public.
the right-wingers complaining about ACORN.
Quit with the damn double standards and start getting politically active. And while your at it, quit acting like any loss you suffer must have been the result of fraud.
ACORN isn't hiding anything. The right-wing anger against them is for the most part manufactured to cover up their real problem with ACORN which is helping minorities and the poor to register to vote.
In this case, no one is specifically claiming fraud, but the idea of a petition is to show public support for a given issue. To sign a petition is to make a public statement. To hide the names of a petition is to invalidate the entire purpose of having a petition. So the claim of fraud is not a specific claim of wrongdoing but more of a general one against a decision that seems to remove a big check against possible fraud.
... lead to violating the Equal Protection clause, then, yes, it's illegal.
This is not about whether or not you are afraid 'teh Gay' is going to sneak up on you and infect you or transform your kids into flaming queens.
It's about assuring the law applies to all, equally, and not granting religious tyrants free reign.
What about the "inalienable rights to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness" and "justice for all?" ??!!!
"Egotism is the anesthetic that dulls the pain of Stupidity" - Frank Leahy
A petition by definition is a public show of support. Hiding the names of the signers completely invalidates the fact that people signed it.
What I don't understand about the decision is that the argument that it would stifle free speech is invalid because the context is not a vote, but rather a petition. A specifically public declaration of someone's support intended to show the public's support of a proposition. It makes no sense.
But anyway, how bout an end run? Ok, so the names can't be made public? BUT can't people who have cause (i.e. gay people in that state) challenge the validity of the petition? Surely there must be some mechanism to prevent the submission of fraudulent petitions?
I propose every gay person in Washington state submit (individually) a challenge to the validity of the signatures on the petition. They have case because they're gay, they have a reason to suspect fraud BECAUSE THE PEOPLE WHO BROUGHT THE PETITION FOUGHT TO KEEP IT SECRET! So the names won't be made public by the court but everyone will know who signed the petition.
Ok, I know it won't work cause obviously the 'establishment' has made up their mind about who it supports on this issue, but it'd be something to see.
Very good point Harry. A petition is public, a vote is private.
It's time for term limits for the US "supreme" court; this way, when the world changes the court changes too, instead of harboring appointees by despots of days gone by. Fuck all "christians"/"mormons"/"jews"/"muslims" and any other freakshow fanatical cult, fuck them all right in the ear! I don't live in Jesusland, I was born in the United States of America. The right wingers on the "supreme" court had best put some KY in their ears girlfriend.
These five dinosaurs on the SCOTUS, will continue to crush the people on behalf of corporate fascism for years to come.
And just think, two of them were appointed by a guy who was never elected in the first place.
Rush Limbaugh is what a smart person thinks a stupid bigot sounds like.
Ironic, non?
No, it's not. The point to irony is that it involves an event that runs counter to what one would expect. If you expected any different from a Supreme Court pre-loaded with a conservative majority, which always votes on the conservative side, then you just haven't been paying attention.
So no irony here.
There's always free cheddar in the mousetrap, baby. - Tom Waits
We can be bashed , murdered, disallowed federal, state, and local benefits, housing, and jobs.
They can do these things to us with the Supreme Courts approval.
All men created equal my derrière.
receive the benefits of Free Speech with none of the responsibilities.
sounds like a corporation to me.
Anonymous speech is just as protected.
should not be protect
by amending the consitution. Maybe its time again to press the ERA (Equal Rights Amendment). It was defeated before but maybe if we start now it can pass in ten yrs or so.
I doubt it'll take that long this time.
The "Greatest Generation" is dying out
And business have come to depend on female workers (particularly in the service sector)
And as an addition to the customer's base
By shoring up household incomes, when they're not sole income earners.
Diabolus est Deus Inversus
Many of the people who have signed and defended the petition are open, avowed homophobes whose positions are already well known by the public. Most people who are homophobic have no problem with stating that fact, since it is "okay" to be homophobic. At the very least, they are certainly not afraid of "inferior" homosexuals.
So why are they pulling and dragging to keep the petition names from being revealed? Why are these conservatives doing everything in their power to keep those names secret?
Given the evidence, I think that it is not unreasonable to suppose that the petition is, in fact, fraudulent. The most obvious reason as to why they would want to keep the names secret is not that they want to protect homophobes, but because if the names were revealed, it would be clear that there were a large number of fake names, repeat signatures, and other typical irregularities which appear in bogus petitions.
A fraudulent petition would through legal doubt on the referendum, as well as tarnish the reputation of those opposed to gay marriage by revealing them as cheats. It would also convince the blind majority that public opinion is, in fact, not against homosexual rights, and so many people would choose to drift towards gay rights simply because they feel that "the average person" wants it.
I'm just saying it appears that the best tack here is NOT To bicker and argue about the gay rights part of the agenda, but instead to focus on the fact that these people refuse to prove the legitimacy of their petition, thus making it legally questionable. You can't beat them on gay rights because they have the Bible, which allows you to talk like an idiot and not be questioned. But you can certainly crush their credibility if they can't defend themselves from reasonable scrutiny.
You are quite uninformed on the subject.
Their petition WAS proved legitimate by state officials.
The referendum already happened and the petitioners lost.
For a second there I thought you said the petition was flatulent.
Diabolus est Deus Inversus
from the petition.
Constitutionally, it is perfectly OK to be homophobic. Whether it's morally acceptable is another matter. The Constitution doesn't say a thing about morals, and I'm pretty sure that most of you would be appalled if it did.
Also, this isn't the first time the Supreme Court has said that membership rolls can't be disclosed. Another time I can think of is when they said the State of Alabama could not require the NAACP to disclose the names of its members. You can't have it both ways.
We shouldn't be injecting morality into a state's constitution? what a crazy concept!
to dictate morality, go for it. I'll be fighting you tooth and nail. If you ultimately win, I'm fairly certain you won't be happy with the results.
This is different
Your in-depth analysis is excellent.
why on earth do supreme court judges not understand that the majority should NOT be allowed to vote on the rights of the minority??? seriously, how hard is this to understand?
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