Tom Ridge says the GOP needs to me more inclusive, less shrill and Specter should be Davey Crockett
By John Amato Saturday May 09, 2009 9:00am
Tom Ridge was on Hardball Thursday and made a few statements that the Grand Poobah of the GOP---Rush Limbaugh will not like. There's a fight for the heart of the GOP goin' on if you haven't noticed. It's the Limbaughs vs the Ridges and it looks like the wingnut-teabagger brigades led by Rush are winning.
Ridge says the GOP is much too shrill and should not be a party made of teabaggers alone. Then they got into Arlen Specter switching parties and the conversation turned into a surreal Villager comic strip. Apparently Specter should have acted like Davey Crockett and died at the Alamo instead of becoming a "turncoat" and switching his uniform to join the Mexicans. I'm not kidding. I'm no fan of the switch, but these two Villagers like to make believe they know all there is to know about politics, but how could they reasonably make the case that an old time politician is going to willingly lose his seat in the name of Davey Crockett?
So what happened? Was it the Iraq war? Was it Cheney's war over there? What did it to you?
RIDGE: Well, I think both -- I mean, I look at Pennsylvania as a frame of reference, and clearly -- nationally -- you know, there's certainly fundamentals that always guided us as Republicans, limited government, fiscally ethical government, competent government, outcome-based, and understand that government has no money of its own, so when you make an investment, make sure you get the outcomes that you need.
Our message became shrill. We became very divided over these social issues. And at some point in time, we're going to have to be a lot less judgmental...
MATTHEWS: Yes.
RIDGE: ... and a lot more tolerant because we will always be the pro-life party. There's no question about that. But we have to...
MATTHEWS: Well, you're pro-choice.
RIDGE: That's right. But it's the notion of, Let's accept certain differences of opinion to understand that these are principled people who disagree with you, and let's treat them with greater civility and respect than, frankly, we have in the past.
MATTHEWS: Did you have any conversation with Arlen Specter the last couple days?
RIDGE: Did not.
MATTHEWS: Did you have any conversation with the governor of Pennsylvania, the current governor?
RIDGE: No, I did not.
MATTHEWS: Did you talk to any top Republicans about this? And what was your assurances -- what was their case that you could win?
RIDGE: Well, I mean, that several people ran polls, and some people even announced they were going to run some polls. And I said, Don't bother, save your money. I mean, if I had taken a poll, I'd have never run for governor and probably wouldn't have run for Congress.
MATTHEWS: But I have seen polls with you ahead.
RIDGE: That's right. But (INAUDIBLE) polls (INAUDIBLE) behind. And polls are a snapshot. You and I have had this discussion before.
MATTHEWS: Yes, but Bob Asher (ph) ran a poll up in Pennsylvania, Opinion Dynamics or whatever it's called, and you came out ahead.
RIDGE: Yes. And -- but it would have been a tough campaign, tough primary, tough general election. It's a contact -- it's a competitive sport. It's a contact sport. I mean, the biggest challenge for me in making this decision -- it was the toughest decision I ever had to make
-- was the fact that I had literally people -- and I haven't been in the political arena in a contest for 10 years -- who wanted to put on their helmet and go in...MATTHEWS: Yes.
RIDGE: ... and compete (ph) with me. And it's very humbling and gratifying at the same time. But at this point in time, I decided it's just not what I want to do.
MATTHEWS: What do you make of people that switch parties? I'm going through the list. I wrote about this years ago. First of all, it never turns out well for most of them.
RIDGE: I don't think any of them.
MATTHEWS: John Lindsey (ph) was one of the most attractive candidates who (INAUDIBLE) became a Democrat, nobody cared about him.
John Connally, a very attractive Democrat, became a Republican, went the other way, disappeared, got one delegate vote. People don't like turncoats generally, do they.RIDGE: I don't think...
MATTHEWS: "Turncoat" to strong a word for Arlen Specter?
RIDGE: Well, no, I'm not going to use...
MATTHEWS: Is it too...
RIDGE: ... that because I respect Arlen's 30 years of service and...
MATTHEWS: Was it turncoat behavior?
RIDGE: Well, I think it was -- he made a decision that I think he may now regret, given what the Democrats did to him. But I don't second guess -- I mean, that's -- I'm not going to second guess or...
MATTHEWS: Well, what do you think of people that change parties?
RIDGE: I would -- here's what I would prefer...
MATTHEWS: Right.
RIDGE: ... instead of answering that question. I would prefer that you stand your ground and fight, fight for what you believe in, in the context of the party that has supported you for 20 to 30 years. People go to the Alamo not because they won, they go because people stood there and fought for something they believed in.
MATTHEWS: Yes.
RIDGE: And I would have preferred to see Arlen stand and fight...
MATTHEWS: Yes.
RIDGE: ... and not hold -- and hold his ground.
MATTHEWS: I didn't see Davey Crockett putting on a Mexican uniform, did you?
RIDGE: No, I didn't. You know, these are tough issues for us.
MATTHEWS: Yes.
RIDGE: And I do hope that my party, at some point in time, is less judgmental...
MATTHEWS: OK...
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.. a snowball has a better chance in Hell mr ridge ..
The current GOP is founded on intolerance.
You're going to have to start your own brand new political party to acheive that.
Or switch to the Dems!
is dead in the water with no life jacket. Done. They've been cheneyed and limbaughed.
... would be nice. This nit-picky writer/editor is often left wondering just what a particular headline or sentence is saying.
OK, time to make some coffee.
BID
for heresy.
Firing party, form a circle!
in case you hadn't noticed.
The Dims became irrelevant during Raygun's regime, and never recovered. Clinton was a Puke in all but name; was, in fact, the most effective GOP president of the 20th century, after Raygun. No part of any social justice/economic justice agenda now survives. The "left" struggles for and fights ferociously over crumbs.
The 'decline' of the Pukes might signal the final devolution of the whole notion of "parties" in USer politics. But that won't make the Dims anymore relevant, except as they are needed to ratify the wishes of the Owners, who also pay their salaries...
or lack thereof?
Two pols from Pennsylvania have no business trying to do Tennessee-Texas history. Davy Crockeett would have left the Alamo if Jim Bowie kept throwing his knife in Davy's back.
When is somebody going to say it?
"The republican party is not going to change, NOR SHOULD THEY!"
The GOP spent 30 years fooling the chumps in America into voting for their own economic destruction.
They have been successful beyond their wildest dreams!
They have concentrated most of the countries wealth into a few hands. They own the entire propaganda outlet know as the MSM. They have destroyed the working class standard of living; wiped out their benefits, and written a tax code that allows them to steal future generations tax dollars - while placing those funds in blatant money laundering off-shore tax-havens.
They have even duped 20% of the unemployed, financially raped idiots in this country into having "tea parties," so that they won't have to give them back any of their money that they stole. Hell, 46% of them even voted for "more of the same McCain" last year. A guy who wanted the rich (and corporations) to pay fewer taxes (as if they pay any now), outsource more jobs, and take away health insurance completely from the American people. Yep, we'll take four more years of that!
Think about it. That stupid bald headed asshole got 46% of the vote! This after eight years of George W. Bush!
If I were a super-rich oligarch/plutocrat, sociopath, greed-head prick like your typical GOPer, I wouldn't change a damn thing about America!
I would stand up and say fuck you! And watch (with a big grin on my face) the red state bigots, redneck idiots, and christiofascist dead enders re-elect me.
The irony of Matthews comparing Specter to Davy Crockett is Crockett actually argued against something many (most) of his fellow southerners were in favor of, the Indian Removal Act of 1830 under Andrew Jackson, which passed 102-97 in the House, over the objections of Crockett (and destroyed the Cherokee Nation). Crockett also felt bound to no political party. So, in a sense, the comparison Matthews makes is the opposite of the comparison he is trying to make, which apparently is that Specter should have gone down with the ship.
I'm sure many in the House once thought of Crockett as a traitor when he represented Tennessee
The question facing Arlen was not going down with the ship. It was being hung from the yardarm by his crew members before they scuttled thier own ship. The rest of the boys at the Alamo were shooting at the troops of Santa Anna, not at Davy Crokett.
The GOP message didn't become shrill. It always was! And harsh, and clueless, and punitive ...and lowest-common-denominator.
I hope you're out of power for half a century.
But the teleprompter,handshake,bow,mustard obsessions mean they have reached new heights. The Jerry Springer show style politics has turned into their "values". They care less about policy and more about how to turn anything into the new greatest threat to our liberty and freedom. They are all the way to mustard. They have turned into everything they hate. Their political correctness knows no bounds.
Tom Ridge always seems a little dence to me. Same with that Tommy Thompson guy. Like their elevator does not quite make it to the top floor.
and firing?
We need to KICK PEOPLE OUT of the GOP.
We literally had a Neo-Marxist for a Republican President -- how could we be more inclusive?
Tom Ridge needs to go to prison for the USA PATRIOT Act.
The Real GOP are individualists, which means we don't discriminate like the collectivist Republicans.
We don't put people in groups, so while we don't promote gay rights or woman's rights we protect individual rights which allows anyone to be straight gay or whatever.
Gays want to get married? A Church can recognize any marriage it wants. The State should recognize any contract between two individuals who want to share benefits, lower taxes, etc.
Any law that prohibits two individuals from partnering, in any way, is a violation of Natural Law and thus is unconstitutional.
Illegal immigration? We aren't against it, we are against welfare that gives incentives for illegals to come here. Most of all, we are against NAFTA, a form of economic integration used to destroy Mexico (check out the illegal immigration rate correlation). And F CATO for being so stupid in supporting "free trade" for oligarch criminals.
Big business wants open borders and diluted labor markets.
Cut taxes for the middle class? We'd cut ALL taxes, eliminate the IRS which is a collection agent for the Federal Reserve, the biggest of all big businesses. When interest rates go back up, we will be paying 100% of our federal income taxes to interest to the Federal Reserve (and others) for a debt the Congress could have created themselves for 0% interest.
More social programs? Sure, we'll cut out $1 trillion from our overseas war empire and use that for some free health care.
Health care? Didn't you see Sicko and the Nixon tapes? Get government out of health care. Promote preventative health so people don't get sick as much. Stop the fast food killing of our nation. Outlaw Monsanto and Aspartame.
Globalization? WTO, World Bank, UN, IMF, etc -- these guys are all collectivists promoting Imperial Federation in the form of political unions (i.e. economic integration). They are all evil.
Capitalism is not corporations that thrive off fractional reserve banking.
Let all the banks fail, let all the banksters be shunned, clear out the corruption and return to individual rights.
So simple.
Well, yes, that's all good, but you run into the inherent issue that the US Republican Party no longer has much to do with conservatism (nor has it, really, in quite a while). It's now a mix of religious extremists, jingoists, and uneducated government paranoids funded by moneyed uber-capitalists. Conservatism, in the sense of a less-powerful central government and correspondingly more reasonable spending, isn't a philosophy I agree with, but it's a legitimate viewpoint and necessary counterpoint to "real" liberalism. It's just that the closest thing we have left to a real conservative in this country is in the Democratic party.
Now a side-note on Davy Crockett:
It's legitimate to believe that, if you strongly hold to your beliefs, and the people who elected you just aren't going to go along with it, that you should stand tall and fight the good fight, even if you lose. It's also legitimate to say "the things I stand for are no longer represented by the party I had aligned myself with, and they ARE now represented by the one I had aligned myself against, so I will switch to remain true to my ideals."
Sticking true to a party that you honestly believe doesn't hold true to your ideals JUST BECAUSE, however, is stupid, nothing more.
Neither of these, of course, has anything to do with Specter, who switched because he likes being in a position of power and his old party wasn't going to continue giving that to him. I'd like to believe that he jumped ship because he's a reasonable human being who realized where the train was headed (off a cliff), but I seriously, seriously doubt it.
We have areas of agreement. Your philosophy sounds just like libertarianism to me. It is not rigidly conservative in any sense.
You discuss something I have personally found quite disturbing recently.
"The Real GOP are individualists, which means we don't discriminate like the collectivist Republicans."
Individualism. A quite notable attribute on many levels. Unfortunately the rightists have taken this noble quality and turned it into a selfish ugly alienating attitude.
Collectivism has its pluses my friend. Quit thinking in extremes. That is what they train us to do.
Familys are collectives. Businesses coordinate their operations collectively. Most of our best experiences are shared ones. In the most real and bottom line...the greatest force in the universe...love..is at best questionable in an individualist setting.
Individuality is a wonderful thing. It is only part of the experience, not the whole enchilada. Pride in check, priorities to the front.
Dude, you just don't get it!
It wasn't the people implementing the conservative republican ideology that were flawed. The ideology itself is flawed and required flawed individuals to accept and promote it.
If we don't collect taxes, then we have to go to the wealthy and corporations to supply everything. This is exactly what we have now. Corporate fascism. You don't like the results, but you support the ideology that produces those results.
And without taxes to make sure you have a just society where everyone can prosper (and not just the super rich), its just not gonna happen.
This is where llibertarians miss the boat. Without government playing a significant role, the rich will quickly devour everyone else, which is exactly why republicans hate regulations. Without them, the rest of us are a smorgasboard for the super-rich to feast upon.
Good post. While the anarchist element that libertarianism insists on doesn't comfort me I think liberals and libertarians often agree. Liberty, the Constitution, there are building blocks there. What needs to be done is to ingrain the concept(and reality) that corporations or at the least large monied interest groups run our government for their benefit. It is certainly no giant leap to recognize something like that. My observations tell me it is the Money/banking/insurance industry, the Military industry,the oil/energy industry and Big Pharma/health industry. You know, all those areas where the average citizen is getting robbed.
Once this picture is established then all those anti government protesters and I will be protesting the same thing.
The next step is convincing them that government MUST be there and the effort should be to make it work for THE PEOPLE in the most flexible way possible, not to eliminate it.
There's a fight for the heart of the GOP goin' on ... It's the Limbaughs vs the Ridges and it looks like the wingnut-teabagger brigades led by Rush are winning.
Not a fight, a crack up. The republican party is breaking into factions: Limbaugh wingnuts, corportists (the heart of what republicans have always been), religious whack jobs, neocon warmongers. My guess is the remaining few moderates will flee or retire; the corportists will eventually jettison the religious whackjobs and limbaugh wingnuts who may continue in an uneasy alliance or also split and go their separate ways. The neocons will go whichever faction they feel best serves their objectives for continuous war.
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