Paying $10 billion a month on wars America hates is good, but paying money to fix our health care sysytem is bad...
By John Amato Monday Sep 28, 2009 11:00amThe media, conservatives and the democratic deficit hawks are telling America that the cost of reforming America's health care system better not add one red cent to the deficit. Why doesn't the librul media explain to America that we are paying 10 billion dollars a month on two wars that Americans hate?
I asked Rep. Alan Grayson on a live chat on C&L how much the US of A spends each month on the wars, and he answered thus:
The appropriated cost is around $10 billion a month, which is enough to pay for the entire health care plan by itself. But that doesn't include the future health care costs for injured American soldiers, which is staggering. Nor the cost to the Iraqis or Afghans, of course.
Our soldiers get killed or maimed by one war that has been botched by Bush and we're no closer to a solution in Afghanistan after eight years of occupation and another war that Bush lied us into known as Iraq. The media is uncomfortable whenever we use the word "lie," for some reason. I wish they could give us a truer description of what happened, don't you?
Yet, the media never bothers to explain to us how much money we are actually spending each month that does NOTHING to help Americans. Well, it does fund the military complex and mercenaries like Blackwater, but why the f*&k does it matter to these budget freaks if we have to spend some jack to save the health-care system in the long run? Have they completely decided that America is staying in both countries endlessly and the costs for sustaining these wars is a non-issue?
UPDATE: You can donate to our "No Means No!" Afghanistan action here.
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Everything is upside down.
this goes right along with hound ACORN; Ignore the war criminals.
At least there's consistency. As in Consistently Bad.
Nine years ago, we entered BizarroWorld.
Unfortunately, there is no escape.
"Canada outshines the United States in health outcomes but is well behind global leaders like Japan in the overall health of its population, a report from the Conference Board of Canada contends.
The annual report card ranks Canada 10th out of 16 developed countries, with a "B" grade.
The United States was the worst performer, placing 16th and earning a "D" grade. Japan was once again the top-ranking country. Switzerland, Italy, and Norway also earned "A" grades"
http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/C...
I am fed up with Obama.
The person I had hoped was elected would have been someone who could say what John Amato said.
Obama sounds and acts like a corporate tool.
I know that's a cliché - but he sounds distant and unconvincing when he addresses us.
He's content to coast and do what he's told.
I hope he's a one term president. I hope that a real old-fashioned democrat challenges him and wins the nomination and the general election.
If he keeps on his current course, people hoping for a better American will not vote for him again.
The right wing will of course not vote for him. So we'll wind up with another freak like Bush.
At least Bush was a two-term freak, although not technically legitimate.
Speaking of the freak, one would think that after being President and having to step down while 2 wars or your own causing were still going on would cause said ex-Prez to make a stand in trying to stop the bloodshed and end the violence, at least go through the motions for public image.
What's happening with the freak? Probably staying at his luxury home in Dallas choking on pretzels and beer.
What a worthless sack of shit.
.
Bush is a sack of shit.
What kind of sack is Obama?
What about the soldiers killed and maimed on his watch?
When's the last time he said a peep?
When's the last time he visited Walter Reed?
was Obama's last official visit to Walter Reed Hospital.
He visited Walter Reed last January.
How many have been maimed and killed since then?
What did he feel? What did he learn from his visit?
And have the conditions there measurably improved?
... but feel free to move the goal posts.
the intent of the question.
If I had phrased it as a declarative sentence, you might not have done so.
Obama hasn't demonstrated any more concern for the welfare of the wounded than his predecessor.
... I tend to think that people mean what they write, and write what they mean.
You asked, I answered. You simply did not like how the answer made you look. Not my problem really.
Cheers.
ignore who cut & ran.
the nights with his wife Condi.
The problem is Obama fooled many of us into thinking he was a left-learning candidate and not a centrist technocrat. Some of us knew what he was but couldn't vote for Grandpa McCain and Queen Sarah.
but if you thought he was "left leaning" maybe the problem is that you did not know exactly what the left was?
...voted for third party candidates, and didn't practice tactical voting (for Obama) to keep McInsane out of office.
Some of us were not fooled. Some were fooled to the extent of daily bashing anyone who dared to have any opinion of Obama that was not 100% positive.
Yeah, I remember cathcing hell on this site and others, all through the primaries and the general election.
I voted for a third party. The man who would have gone in and kicked some corporate butt. The man that has dedicated his life to protecting US from the corporate masters. Care to guess who that man is?
if asked or not.
Ralph Nader.
And the right-wing corporate fascists got all the "leftists" to hate him.
Bingo. I'm surprised Ricky couldn't figure that one out.
... I am just surprised he passed such a low hanging fruit to get some of his perennial antilefty smirk in. Oh, wait...
Right, because voting for a third-party candidate has worked so well in the past for both parties.
Have you seen the list of Trilateral Commission members appointed by Barrack to run the country, develop and conduct foreign policy, bail out bank shysters, and leave the Constitution in disrepair? My money is on Obama gearing up for another war in Iran. What has he done to help The American People? Come on all you Obama apologists, lets hear it.
defending itself.
I had to rethink this. If Israel was legitimately threatened by Iran with nuclear bombs, that would be one thing. But are they? I can't decide. Probably because of all the accurate information I get from the corporate media.
and I'm pretty sure I read that Saudi Arabia has granted permission to Israel to use their airspace for their aircraft if and when they decide to bomb the beejeebus out of Iran.
I'm beginning to hope there really is a Gawd - and he'd better get his ass in gear to put the kabosh on this mess or his lovely, 6,000 year-old creation will be a cinder....
But remember all these politicians will never go against their real constituents. you know the corpotocracy. We the people will have a voice in our government when we come up the money. until then just STFU!
The military industrial complex is all powerful and pretty disgusting.
One lives and hopes.
That'd be amazing, if it happened. I'm there with you.
the Congress is charged with (a) representing the citizens via their elected representatives and (2) overseeing all federal budgets. Obama is not the problem -- the complacency and corruption in the House and the Senate are the problem. A bill to reduce military expenditures, including those that are not included in the federal deficit passed by Congress would seriously curtail the foreign occupations and invasions in short order. But, then, politics is just a football game in the beltway. The teeming unwashed have little voice in contrast to the 30,000 registered (?) lobbyists. By any name, this is corruption at its finest and would cause Madison, Jefferson, Washington and Franklin among others to shriek in horror.
conservatives protest health care.
And the conservatives claim to be pro-life. Go figure.
non-existent people, but hate actually living people. If hypocrisy was a crime, we might have a pretty good society. Oh, well.
then you are sh*t out of luck under their point of view. However, if you want to die on your own terms, then by all means they will do everything in their power to keep you alive. Apparently their god is so "awesome" and "cool" that they feel compelled to do everything hey can to delay you meeting him.
Obama is not f-cking protesting any wars.
He wants more of them.
And Obama is no champion of healthcare. If he were, he'd say what he said in 2003: that he believes in single-payer. And he would fight for it.
Don't go puttin words in my mouth, okay.
I am accepting your premise: Liberal's protest wars. That's what you said. I agree with that.
My conclusion from that is that Obama is no liberal. I haven't seen him protest any wars since he started running for president. In fact, he's in favor of several of them.
I don't even know what words you think I was imparting to you.
lately.
Apologies.
I'm gettin stressed out, and not paying close enough attention to things.
I need some down time.
You haven't stayed put long enough for me to spot any conclusions along the way...
speak about the war. It is verboten.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vgAi7DYHA94
Oh yes. Eva Prawn. Yes...
Since Obama's election, there is nary a peep online. Oh the odd story, grumbling about the cost, but not much about the human cost. Seems a bit arrogant to justify leaving so you can afford healthcare, not caring about the devastation caused over in those two countries.
Partisan Dems online will tell you, that Afghanistan is a just war and offer excuses. It's quietly supported. They don't mind killing innocent people, as long as they are in the right nation. Bring all the troops home and stop this needless bloodshed. Whatever happened to the antiwar protests? Afghanistan must be damn important. An overwhelming majority of Canadians want our troops brought home yesterday, but our government just repeats the US politician line of "we must finish the mission" with nobody saying exactly what that ever changing mission is.
Every week, I make sure that we acknowledge losses in Iraq and Afghanistan. I personally have written at least three posts since Obama's inauguration discussing the murkiness of the mission in Afghanistan. And we've launched a PAC action to call for withdrawal from Afghanistan.
So don't paint with such a demonstrably false broad brush. You may bemoan the silence on other websites, but you can't say that we've been silent.
What you're doing with your PAC action is great. But I would like to hear more about it - and less about idiots like Beck and O'Reilly.
Everyone knows that the mission in Afghanistan is "murky". No one knows why we're there or what we hope to accomplish. But Obama is the one we should be taking to task. He's out front selling this lethal garbage to us.
I would like to see clips of Obama spewing his nonsense followed by the same level of critique and contempt correctly lavished on the likes of Beck, Bachmann, O'Reilly and the rest. They are entertainers. But Obama is the guy with his finger on the button. He's the one sending more and more young people to their doom.
Let's focus on this guy before it's too late.
Some people know.
gas, oil and maybe just a little bit of opium/heroin (to keep the Bushistas happy).
Start your own blog. I'm not trying to be dismissive. I'm telling you what John Amato did. He saw a need, he saw a point of view not being covered and he stepped in.
This site has always been about calling out those who dishonestly frame the debate. When you have Time Magazine and the NY Times saying that they have to pay attention to Glenn Beck, and he whips up his listeners/viewers into such a frenzy that we have teabaggers protesting who knows what (I still don't think they know) and now we're looking at the deaths of Dr. Tiller and Bill Sparkman, then damnit, WE'RE COVERING THESE CROOKS AND LIARS. That's what we do.
You want an anti-Obama site? Create one. That's not been our mission. It doesn't mean he's above criticism (I dare you to look at Susie or my posts and say we are cowtowing to him), but we're not interested in being anti-Obama.
After Obama's saber rattling speech concerning Iran the other day there was no mention on this site about his conduct. Health care be damned as far as Barrack is concerned but get all out of joint about Iran is OK. I know C&L is not interested in being anti- Obama. Maybe C&L should pay a little more attention to this con artist and liar.
hey fill me in. what did he lie about?
there are at least two of us that were working on posts about Iran. Jon Perr and I have been comparing notes. Don't assume because a post doesn't show up the second you want it that it isn't being looked at.
There's a meeting in Geneva later this week, that may provide us with the videos we're looking for.
has been a priority for C&L since it started and that will never change.
Or are you really this stupid in real life?
said.
I heard the crash, felt the shakes and thought it was another quake.
I did not mean this site in my post. This site does bring the human sacrifice to light weekly, like you said. I didn't say that C&L has been silent.
You address it to John and you say there's nary a peep online. I see no caveat that you don't mean us.
and apologize to John publicly if that is what my post was interpreted as.
I enjoy reading yourself and Susie's givin' em "hell" on regular occasion and hope the dimwits read it as well. My point was, and I stand by that, many many liberal and left blogs online are all stating similar to what John stated. The financial cost of the wars (what a joke, they aren't wars), would pay for healthcare. And it is a bit arrogant to talk like that. After what has been done to Iraq, and now on to Afghanistan, a just world, would see massive restitution payments. But you can't bring back the dead, and obviously, nobody from the administration that lied into these follies will ever be prosecuted.
I'm sure John didn't intend his post to sound like it did, but it did especially after reading other blogs with similar lines.
Obama always said he would keep troops in Afghanistan. If Canada can't bring it's troops home it's because of your beloved conservatives. That is not Obamas fault but your own.
And the fans cheered. And no, Canada will bring it's troops home when Uncle Sam says we can, just as every other nation will.
nobody will give a sh-t what Uncle Sam says...
because Uncle Sam will be completely broke.
Spending all this money that Unc doesn't have is going to hit the fan eventually.
Then they'll pay attention to Uncle Hu or Uncle Hugo.
Q - $10 billion a month…
A - chump change…
Q - Countries destroyed, many tens, even hundreds of thousands of killed and maimed…
A - having an Empire has its costs…
Q - the Banksters lost $4.3 trillion…
A - quick, bail them out…
Q - the people need health care…
A - Who?!?!
It comes down to fear and a belief that the military is good in an of itself and that war is defense.
Right-wingers are scared shitless of everything, which is why they would rather spend $100 billion per year on war instead of health care for all.
be one of the wealthiest 1%. That also makes them fools.
Because people with 7, 8 & 9-figure salaries don't have healthcare problems. They are richer than ever and pay ridiculously low taxes.
And because virtually EVERYONE on television is in that salary-range.
compared to the amount profiteers can make. War is big business on many levels with an enormous blackmarket.
which is enough to pay for the entire health care plan by itself."
I'm not for diverting our taxes toward fighting pointless wars, and I do think the money would be better spent here, but he's either stupid or full of sh*t if he thinks $10 billion a month is going to cover universal care.
Medicare alone currently costs about $40 billion a month and covers less than 20% of the population.
How is it that Cuba having to endure the pointless embargo that we have against them can have universal healthcare and better health outcomes than the great 'ol USA and cost them just pennies compared to us? This is because their evil Socialists like the rest of the world and they're all going to Hell, just that alot of us will get there before them.
Just goes to show you that Republicans only love the troops when they can send them off to fight wars.
Back home, now and afterwards, they couldn't care less. Oh, they say they do, until it comes time to cast real votes.
I fault the Dems for not having emphasized what the party has done, in the past and currently, to support the troops, both abroad and especially on the home front.
I think you all know the answer. The 10 billion a month goes into the pockets of those who control the media. Real health care reform would take money out of the pockets of those who control the media. I don't really blame them as much as the millions that refuse to pay any attention to the truth and willingly give the ruling elite the power. They act against the very interests of the people who vote for them and some how manage to blame the other side. The people eat it up. The right wing message is getting stupider and louder every day and I for one am getting tired of trying to get people to use their limited brain cells. The end of the United States will not come with cries and screams but with a long standing ovation and cheers by the people that are being destroyed.
Help people? Hell, no! Kill people? Hell, yeah! Oh, and don't forget; Jesus loves us.
Public option, public option. I read comments from people saying if there's a mandate without a PO, they're through with the Democrats!
I come from the belief that there's only one system that will really be effective across the board: it's single payer.
But I don't believe the hype I hear and read about the PO as some kind of "gotta have it" solution. Even as a compromise.
I not only don't think a PO would impact insurance companies one way or the other, I also have serious
questions about the ability of a PO to even survive, let alone compete effectively. At a town hall with my Dem Rep, I asked if the Dems had any hard evidence that a public option would (a) be able to force lower premiums and (b) be able to survive with premiums lower than insurance companies. He wasn't able to answer.
The PO is also a double-edged sword. If it fails outright, the "government" label attached to it will kill
future hope for a "government' single-payer. Believe me. And if it is to some degree effective, it will
be about as far as we'll be able to go in this country.
What's required to change the myopic thinking of 40-50% of the country which opposes single payer,
is to have hard evidence that the cost of health care premiums isn't going down. But rising. And that
will surely be case if we don't even have a PO.
Finally, every one of the Bills, even Baucus, has a lot of good stuff in them. Especially relative to improvements in the delivery system itself. Improvements supported by ever major medical association. And which in the long run might well be the major factor in controlling future costs (since the single-payer advantage concerns mainly Medicare).
So, if what you want doesn't come about, think about how in the long run (which is what we're in for no matter what), what we do get may be the best way towards getting single payer.
asking people if they would prefer single payer if it was on the table. Has anyone seen one? I do not believe that 40% to 50% of people oppose it.
it would be after pre filtering by media staffed by people who would not know how to interpret a legitimate poll. Some journalists think their colleagues in the sports end of the press corps are intellectually challenged. At least the latter can read a box score and understand simple statistics.
10 billion a month is peanuts compared to what we already spend on healthcare.
http://www.kff.org/insurance/upload/7692_02.pdf
That 10 billion will disappear when you take the uninsured expense away.
I have to conclude many of you have no alternative. I could be snarky and say "no alterenative but Lithuania." Or Albania. But why bother. You have no alternative. Sorry to say it, but then you read the stuff you post, right? So you already know.
I have to conclude many of you have no alternative.
Alternative to what?
to being dropped on one's head.
Sure we have alternatives.....
I’m more primed than ever to relocate to Venus…
I dunno what kind of rain coat works for that though.
And by raincoat, do you mean rubbers?
of the Venusians. I was just reading about their latest weather forecast.
embraced by America's youth.
"You broke it, now you have to fix it"? as far as Afghanistan goes.
We're stuck there for now.
And is our continued presence there actually doing anything to repair it?
Afghanistan is a historically difficult country to occupy. Many others have tried and failed, almost to the point of ruin (see USSR).
The goalposts have shifted as well, pointing to Afghanistan's proximity to Pakistan as part of the reason we're still there. No one has yet satisfactorily explained to me how our presence in Afghanistan stabilized Pakistan.
"historically difficult country to occupy"? How about impossible to occupy? We are wasting lives, money and everything else.
I've said it before and I'll say it again. NO ONE have ever "won" (whatever the hell that means) in Afganistan.
occupiers of Afghanistan are opium farmers and the thugs that protect them. That's it.
... it is literally a useless sh*thole. It has little in terms of natural resources and almost nil strategic importance.
So it is quite a fitting place for its historical context as the dying place of the human insanity that is the notion of empire. Darius, Alexander the Great, Attila the Hun, Genghis Kahn, Timur, the British, and then the Russians. All of them got their asses handed out to them.
So why don't we just leave the f*ck out from that sh*thole already?
to send our empirical asses down the river, so be it.
the pipeline system has a lot to do with Afghanistan. Compare the genocidal times when from five hundred thousand to one million souls were butchered in Rawanda and Mr. Bubba Clinton sat on his fat ass and did zip. Then we had Bush, now Obama, declaring that they will help bring your ever loving democracy to the sweaty masses out of sheer concern for their well being. Bullshit. Obama is so full of it. Tried to act tough with Israel, now he is the hammer over Iran. My, my, what a man. He is bought and paid for. Good speeches though. Just don't listen to too many of them if you want my advice. They are fucking god awful boring. Same shit every time." We will overcome", while he sticks the knife in.
i have been saying this for years now, our #1 industry left in the usa is military hardware. the obscene amount spent on stuff that doesnt grow the economy is staggering....
the money still going to blackwater, haliburton and the rest of the corporate welfare companies, pales in comparison to what should be spent on making this country better and more productive....
this joke of a government [both sides of the aisle] and the lobbiests who are joined at the hip will not change....
yet, all you hear on fake noise is acorn, which maybe got 50 million over the past years, yet there are BILLIONS missing and stolen from the military scumbags that went to iraq.....
nothing is going to get better until this country and world has a major meltdown.... which is coming soon.... dread is everywhere, and if you aint feeling it your'e a fan of fox..... all lies all the time....
Billions missing? How about TRILLIONS.
Do you not remember on september 10th 2001 this little gem?
What happened to finding where all this money went? What happened to getting rid of the waste and corruption in the pentagon?
Strange how all your missing money issues become hush hush after a plane flies into your accounting department, isn't it?
the pallets of hard freshly printed cash in the billions sent to Iraq that they still can't account for to this day. Don't hear shit about the outcome there. Duh.
The whole place is corrupt.
This disturbing article was recently in the local newspaper:
http://www.calgaryherald.com/news/Former+Cana...
Here's another:
http://www.thestar.com/printArticle/443281
"Have they completely decided that America is staying in both countries endlessly and the costs for sustaining these wars is a non-issue?"
Well yes, of course. That was always going to be the case. I'd say it's pretty apparant now. I can't help but wonder, if/when we take over Iran, will we be in some kind of position to threaten the Sauds? Maybe THAT's the whole reason for this mideast conquering--take over enough countries that finally WE can bully THEM around for a change. Go figure! Boy, them Neocons sure were genius'sus, doncha think?
to throw the entire GOP in into the Tigris River.
Ahhh yes , America the beautiful .
This post made me think of this great quote from Martin Luther King, Jr.
When bush was appointed president(NOT ELECTED) where were you people then. when bush took care of the rich with TAX Cuts and raised taxs on the middel class,where were you people. when bush started a War on LIES, where were you people. When bush stoled a 2nd election, where were you people. when bush was wire tapping Americans,no court order,where were you people. when the repugs saw that Obama was going to be the next president and the "bush cons" came up with this 700 billion dollar bail out for the rich banks, where were you people. Obama had a shit storm handed to him. He did not create any of this shit.BUSH and his crime clan DID. But good old george has walked away with a retirement. You nay sayers who now think Obama is the bad guy??? WTF. Think you could do a better JOB??? The repugs have set this shit storm up. But it's Obamas fault!!!!!!!!!!!!!
think I could do a better job.
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