Bobbleheads Are Very Concerned About The Deficit - After BushCo Leaves The Scene of the Crime
By Susie Madrak Sunday Nov 01, 2009 10:00am
Amazing, how concerned bobbleheads become about the deficit right after the Republican administration that created it has left the scene of the crime. As people like Paul Krugman keep reminding us, there are obvious economic reasons the deficit cannot be the priority during a major recession. But those facts seem to elude David Gregory during this NBC News’ “Meet the Press” interview with Tim Geithner:
DAVID GREGORY: Let me talk about the deficit and the debt. These are alarming numbers. You've said they are. Let's look at the deficit-- since inauguration day. $1.2 trillion, now $1.4 trillion. It's up 17 percent. The overall debt, inauguration day, $10.6 trillion, now, $11.9 trillion. What's it gonna be a year from now?
TIMOTHY GEITHNER: Well, it's gonna have to come down now. It's-- it's too high. And I think everybody understands this. You know, we got these two central imperatives. Restore growth, create jobs. But make sure people understand we're gonna have to bring those fiscal deficits down as growth recovers. First growth, though. Without growth, you can't fix those long term fiscal problems. But you're not gonna have a recovery that's gonna be strong enough unless people are confident we're gonna have the will to go back to living within our means.
DAVID GREGORY: How do you bring it down, though? Do taxes have to go up?
TIMOTHY GEITHNER: Well, we're gonna have to do-- we're gonna have to make some hard choices. But we're not really at the point yet, David, where we're gonna know what's gonna be the best path forward. The President's very committed to bringing down these deficits. He's very committed to doing so in a way that's not gonna add to the burden of people-- people making less than $250,000 a year.
DAVID GREGORY: I mean, I think a lot of people - I think its fair to say - what are hard choices? I mean, what hard choices have been made so far? Are you gonna raise taxes?
TIMOTHY GEITHNER: We're gonna have to bring our resources and our expenditures more into balance.
DAVID GREGORY: So, it's possible.
TIMOTHY GEITHNER: Well-- again, the President's committed to make sure we get this economy back on track. We'll bring down deficits over time. And--
DAVID GREGORY: But Mr. Secretary you talked about hard choices. So, why can't you give a straight answer as to whether taxes have to come up, when you have a deficit this big?
TIMOTHY GEITHNER: Because David, right now we're focused on getting growth back on track. Okay? And we're not at the point yet where we have to decide exactly what it's gonna take. And I just want to say this very clearly. He was committed in the campaign to make-- he said in the campaign. And he is committed to make sure we do this in a way that is not gonna add to the burden on people making less than $250,000 a year. Now, it's gonna be hard to do that. But he's committed to doing that. And we can do that.
DAVID GREGORY: You can do it. But it's still a chance that you'd have to raise taxes and go back on that, if you've got a debt this big?
TIMOTHY GEITHNER: We're gonna have to do it in a way that's gonna help to meet that test, meet that commitment. The commitment he made to do it in a way that's fair to Americans. And make sure we do it in a way that's gonna allow-- provide for growth and recovery going forward. But we can do this. You know, this is not beyond our capacity as a country to do. But-- but-- but first things first. And in-- unless we have a recovery, our long term deficits are gonna be worse. Now, you didn't raise health care yet. But what's happening with health care now that's very encouraging. Because if you look at what independent analysts say now. If you look at these bills moving their way through Congress, they will make a substantial difference in reducing the rate of growth in health care costs over the long term. And they will help bring down those long term deficits.
DAVID GREGORY: But there is gonna be a heavy burden on the middle class. Through-- through health care. By taxes going up. By premiums going up.
TIMOTHY GEITHNER: No--
DAVID GREGORY: It will affect the middle class.
TIMOTHY GEITHNER: I don't think that's the way to look at it. Our health care system today imposes enormous burdens. Not just on businesses, but on families. There are very high hidden costs to our current system. And the best way to add to our long-term deficits. And the best way to add to those burdens is to not reform health care today.
DAVID GREGORY: But it doesn't answer the question about premiums going up with an individual mandate. And taxes going up on so-called Cadillac plans and other parts of this bill, as they're moving their way through the process it would increase taxes.
TIMOTHY GEITHNER: Again, I don't think that's the right way to think about it. I think you have to look at the entire system today. And the cost that presents. And if you look at those--
DAVID GREGORY: Well, why isn't that the right way to look at it, if that's the reality of what the legislation would do?
TIMOTHY GEITHNER: No.
Meanwhile, today Krugman points out - again - the consequences on understimulating the economy, saying the present rate of growth is not enough to deal with unemployment:
So if we take 3rd quarter growth to be more or less equivalent to average Clinton-era growth, even after 8 years of growth at that rate we’d only expect unemployment to have fallen from the current 9.8% to a still uncomfortably high 6.3%. It would take us around a decade to reach more or less full employment. As I said in my previous post, that’s well into President Palin’s second term.
The implications for Fed policy are also striking. If we use a Taylor rule that suggests zero rates until the unemployment rate reaches the vicinity of 7%, the Fed should stay on hold for around 6 more years.
We need much faster growth.
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"Hard choices" = higher taxes. The question is, who's taxes?
The power elite have convinced the conservative proles that they should revolt against higher taxes for the rich by including the proles in their formula. The proles will act again against their own interests by buying into this lie. Obama is powerless to raise taxes on the rich/corporations because they control the media. To the president I quote officer John McClane:
"Welcome to the party, pal."
For people who are unemployed, tax cuts don't make any difference. They still have 0 income.
It might if we had George McGovern's negative tax code.
47% will pay no federal income tax
I found this veeerrryy interesting!
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/8321967.stm
Thanks for that.
I'm pretty sure that's what Cheney and Bush plan on doing after the Thanksgiving holiday ----lining up all their corpora-fascist buds to petition Congress to raise their taxes!!!
When pigs (like Darth) fly!
I'd love to see a similar and much larger group of wealthy liberals (and they exist) band together to do the same. And present their petition to Congress in person (making sure they had copies to give to Boehner andMcConnell).
America is far too greedy for any kind of social responsibility, if you are rich, and a republican. For them, it is not just important to be rich. It is just as crucial that you are poor, and that you realize your place in society.
Our society has its values all screwed up!
All this phony scare talk about raising taxes really...annoys me.
It is way way way past time to raise taxes on the Rich. Not on the middle class, not more 'fees' for the poor.
Raise Taxes on the RICH! To at least the 1960's level: We only had 1 War then.
Why are Democrats scared to raise taxes on the rich? Oh, Geitner isn't really a Democrat, he's more an elitocrat.
Repugs have been telling scary lies about taxes, frightening Americans into believing that ALL taxes, even, or perhaps especially taxes on the RICH, are destructive. That taxing millionaires and billionaires will cause our Society to collapse or be overrun by "illegals" or attacked by Terrorists.
Republicans are the worst Terrorists of all. The 9/11 bombers had real grievances against the USA and Wall Street. The R's sole reason for their terrorist tactics is the increasing of more power, more money for THEM only; and the creation of a permanent Underclass, or Serfs if you will.
... an 85% tax on all income, no matter the source, over $3,000,000. Adding fair trade tariffs on all goods coming into the country, requiring reporting on all offshore income as part of trade deals, reducing the rest of taxes to less than 20% would also go a long way toward shoring up the economy, creating jobs, reducing waste and creating long-term stable growth.
Agree with all except the flat tax. How can low and middle income people afford to pay 85% of their income? No, gotta have progressive income tax and need to tax the top 1% at Eisenhower levels.
I( misread your post, somehow missed the over $3,000,000 part.
He meant income over 3 mill/yr.
oh please, start with that hack Tim Russert wanna-be david gregory.
just takes the talking points of the opposition and attacks, regardless of validity.
Premiums will go up? Umm, maybe, and why would they go up? Because Health insurers have a monopoly and price fix. Thanks Dick, you just made the case for public option.
Let's face it: the facts elude David Gregory no matter what the topic is.
This is typical David Gregory. He goes in determined to make make Geithner say "Obama will have to raise taxes" so he gets his big headline. Rather than listen to what Geithner is actually saying Gregory just keeps trying to trip him up over the tax issue. End result is no headline for Gregory and and neither Gregory nor the viewer learns anything new, like why a GOP caused recession may not be the best time to obsess about deficits, and we need a strong recovery first or we won't get one. Greagory is a dribbler, not a juggler. He just isn't able or bright enough to hear his guest's points or discuss anything in depth and inform/teach his audience. It is a game badly and narrowly played to no end. Even an informed/bright guest is wasted on Gregory.
to small to fail banks will be the next shoe to drop because they are holding so much toxic commercial paper. They are the principal holders of commercial and industrial property mortgages. The depth and repercussions of this crisis is unknown but it is coming.
My understanding is the deficit looks bad, because the Obama administration are including war costs, including the boosh era war costs, something boosh never did.
It also includes both boosh bailing out of Wall Street with no strings attached, and the much smaller bailout of Detroit to save jobs.
--KKKlannity, rush, etc.
The Bomb
Bush Obama McCain Bailout
B-O-M-B
Little Timmie and Helicopter Ben are bag men for the Plutocrats. As is the Pope of Hope.
The Detroit Bailouts, which will pare GM of its union contracts and allow them set up shop in China. They are a penny on the dollar to the Banksters.
Is anyone else starting to catch on to the phrase "growth" and how it is used? Nothing in nature or the man made world grows all the time. Yet the American economy has to "grow" by better than 3% per year to get out of this. What if the economy is contracting for a reason, such as a cut back in credit spending or seniors spending less because they are out of money? Then what?
These guys are not acting in our best interest and are in the middle of a fantasy scenario.
Oh and I almost forgot to mention, Geithner is pretty f*cking crooked.
People who can't pay for what they bought on credit, and to many people who invested in various investment products and scams the past 13 years who got looted totally when the plug was pulled last fall.
Now there is nothing left. Not even industry. We're broke and unemployed leisure at last~!
Notice how dickless keeps harping on raising taxes?
That's not an interview, that's reich-wing propaganda spouting.
It is and Tim is doing quite the propaganda dance back. there is zero substance in this interview. they are pursuing a failing policy of "grow your way out" or "tax your way out". the economy is like Afghanistan: it can't be "fixed".
can't afford it and mostly because I believe they won't be used to do what needs to be done by our totally corrupt two headed monster government.
that all taxes are evil and dangerous. To everybody, not just the persons or companies being taxed. Who should be the Rich people and bloated corporations.
basically, isn't capitalism just a giant Ponzi scheme that requires continuous growth in order to function?!
Timmie says:
"First growth, though. Without growth, you can't fix those long term fiscal problems. But you're not gonna have a recovery that's gonna be strong enough unless people are confident we're gonna have the will to go back to living within our means."
Those who will be going back to 'living within our means' will be all of us schmucks - while Timmie and his buds will be watching their fortunes 'grow'. What a load of crap...
The argument for more stimulus to increase economic growth is very strong but the Congress is fixated on the risks of reelection. The health care bill is a necessary beginning but will cause heartburn for the Blue Dogs.
Geithner may be crooked but he's doing a tough job with the burden of the GwB doubling of the national debt. And Nantucket David is waaaaaaay out of his depth.
I agree you have to hand it to Tim. The crook's job is a tough one. Let's all get behind him!
More free downloads and tattoos?
tattoos aren't free evet. They do help the economy.
America for our exciting Tattoos and the economy will be booming.
You notice how when times are good they complain of America's low savings rate
And when times are bad and Americans are more cautious with money they complain about the lack of growth?
sends police to break up the tent camps and car camps of homeless unemployed citizens who once belonged to the middle class.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dWvCCxOUsM8
Proof abounds of the unending joy and importance of work and production in our wealth-based economy doesn't it?
I cancelled my cable, stopped eating out, drive my car less, and my neighbor and I are sharing our trash pickup bin, which saves a fair bit.
So because we're economizing, it is our fault the economy is slowing.
Time to point the finger at the real economy wreckers: The wealthy Wall Street thieves, Banksters and the republicans who eagerly enable them.
Raise taxes on the wealthy and the large corporations .. AND .. stop the practice of hiding income offshore to avoid taxes ..
Very simple solution ..
doesn't want to sacrifice these exclusive privileges they enjoy so much.
or rather, they consider themselves to be one of "Them". Senators spouses are paid millions to lobby their husbands, and pass bills protecting and enriching Themselves.. And their good pals, the so honorable Geithner, Summers and so on.
Funny that no one was concerned about spending and the deficit when the Bush / Cheney mob and the Repugs were in full control spending like drunken sailors and bankrupting the country .
That's the bottom line and Americans still don't get it.
It is Fox and the other media outlets who are pushing the "Taxes are Bad" meme, and the "It's all Obama and the Dems fault". Oh and it is also the fault of "illegals" and "Urban (black) folk" and of course, teh Geys.
In short: Scapegoating. and there is a percentage (25%?) who will believe it.
they (and the complicit media conglomerates) LIED!!!
- they stole two elections,
- they scared the bejeebus out of imbecile Americans with the 9/11
'attack,'
- then lied about bin Laden and Hussein,
- started two wars to enrich their MIC buds,
- then lied about the economy, enabled the fraudsters, and carried none of it on the books....
Lies, lies and more lies - big ones, repeated often....
..niggling tax question answered..whine..why didn't he answer the question about tax increases..whine..whine..
David, you know, I'll bet taxes go up at some point and at some point, maybe they go down. You know, with the surplus that w inherited from the evil tax and spend Clinton (oh wait, that was a good thing!) could have shored up Social Security and everyone could've had a modest tax cut and we might have had some money left over for a rainy day..like the aftermath of 9/11 and we wouldn't have had to borrow money from China until w screwed up so bad he ran out of money because he attacked two countries on the cheap. Just not cheap enough. Gotta make those rich folks richer now doncha'?
doesn't realize that the deficit is a Bush product.
Speaking of idiots, hello David Gregory.
and in greater numbers, the Republican's want you to forget Bush spent borrowed money like an idiot. Obama wants you to think he needs to spend borrowed money even more to fix it.
Where are the pitch forks and torches?
David should have tried a little harder as the White House reporter during the Bush years--but he was just not up to the job.He is not up to this one either. His tag questions, make him look small and rude, no matter who he is interviewing. I my head I hear--ask this, follow up, did you hear what he/she said--you know that's not true--let them talk, Oh, thats me screaming at the TV.
This is all a rerun of the late nineties. I have no faith in anything that comes out of Geithner's mouth. He IS big banking.
The Frontline episode regarding Brooksley Born should be required viewing for all Americans.
Geithner was a student of Rubin, along with Summers.
BTW, Obama appointing Summers was a tragedy for America.
just as Bush and Paulson were lying to us.
BULLSH*T! The painless options are gone people, you don't borrow your way out of debt crisis by going deeper into debt. The approach we are taking is asinine.
Problem which caused economic crisis:
Solution being executed:
This is economic recovery?! o_O
Real solution
They are not doing that.
we also add: end the two stupid 'wars', close down 75% of the remaining military bases we have overseas, break up the gigantic banks, and re-regulate everything financial!!!!
They can enlist private industry. There are a lot of infrastructure projects that can be carried out by private industry like power plants, HV transmission lines, tolled roads and bridges, and water supplies. The government can assist by providing long term tax breaks and low cost financing. The government should also look at removing tax breaks to corporations for moving jobs abroad. It should look at the H1B visa program. It should give corporations tax breaks for hiring HS and college grads. Local, State and Federal government should make sure they are buying products made in America. They should also insist that corporations like Defense companies whose major client is the government should also buy America.
Karl Rove's dance partner.
Maybe some day we'll see them on "Dancing With America's Discredited Has-Beens".
In reality we in the US are paying a nice hefty tax due to the health care premiums and other out of pocket health care related expenses. If you factor in our out of pocket expenses as a "tax" and compare it to what people in european countries pay in personal overall taxes, we're actually paying more. And, in the case of health care, getting less.
Hey, isn't that the republican plan, give massive tax breaks to the rich. In 14 years of controlling congress and/or the executive branch the GOP has done nothing, zero, nada for the working class American. Their policies have reduced the middle class to the working poor.
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