Taliban suicide bombers attack Afghanistan govt. buildings
Terrible news out of Afghanistan, as CNN is reporting that 19 people were killed in a coordinated suicide attack on various government buildings.
CNN:
Eight Taliban suicide attackers struck Afghan government buildings and a prison Wednesday killing 19 people in a coordinated attack that the Taliban said was in retaliation for the mistreatment of prisoners, according to Afghan officials.
The deadliest strike happened at the Ministry of Justice where five of the attackers stormed the building here, prompting a three-hour firefight with Afghan soldiers and police, defense ministry spokesman Gen. Mohammed Zahir Azimi said.
"This attack shows the real face of the Taliban," said Gen. David D. McKiernan, with the NATO-led International Security Assistance Force. "This is another example of the Taliban impeding progress for Afghans."
It was the same type of attack carried out by the Taliban in October, also against Afghan government buildings in Kabul in broad daylight.
The exact breakdown of the 19 deaths and 45 injuries from Wednesday's strike was not clear, but Azimi said most of the casualties were at the justice ministry, including civilians and guards.
can throw American power against problems.
He is a really smart dumb fuck.
That was your first thought after reading this post?
Say what you mean. Mean what you say. But don't say it mean.
what do you want?
A better country?
go a little easy on him bro!, hes only following orders!
are we really ready to throw more of our money and human lives into the afghan meatgrinder to gratify a small cabal of "daniel plainview"* psychopaths?
IT'S THE PIPELINE AND THE OPIUM, STUPID.
*from "there will be blood"
... i wasn't calling YOU stupid, it was a rhetorical device...
id thought youd recognise a snark muddy!i was saying hes a puppet!
Here's all you need to know:
GET THE FUCK OUTTA THERE!
Right on.
How can we now abandon all the women and girls of Afghanistan to the Taliban, now that we used them as an excuse to go there and "bring democracy"?
We can't save everybody. But we can do our level best with providing support for social institutions and try to mitigate corruption while doing so.
Instead, we haul over hundreds of tons of munitions and keep splattering people at weddings.
Get the military the f**k out of there and change the mission, because up to this point it wasn't humanitarian.
My thoughts exactly.
At least "This is another example of the Taliban impeding progress for Afghans." and not another example of the Republicans impeding progress for americans...
"Government by organized money is just as dangerous as Government by organized mob"
-= Franklin Delano Roosevelt =-
the new Al Qaeda? Force fed to the public as an excuse to plunder, and kill? Are they the new Iraqi "Insurgents"?
Said it before, and will say it again and again, everyone here would do the exact same thing as these supposed terrorists if an invading nation walked into your country and forcefed you their laws and ideas.
were all in NOW. this was a mistake to me maybe NOT some. the NEOCONs got us in this quagmire. NOW it won't be easy to get out with the strength of the Taliban insurgency and Pakistan falling apart. afghanistan is one of the poorest countries in the world. as we all know very corrupt with "drug lords". i don't often agree about this but maybe we need to pull out.....but what are the consequences?
...consequences for who?
...the american taxpayer
...or for oil companies?
...or consequences for Israel?
...or Pakistan?
...or your children? (who will be paying for this...and maybe fighting it 10 yrs from now...
audit-prosecute-incarcerate
consequences for anyBody and everybody...........geeze........everybody matters.
if you're a female and you live there.
...if you think things have gotten better for women in Afghanistan since we invaded 7 yrs ago...or will get worse for women if we leave.
illegal opium production has increased 10 fold since we invaded, and threw the country into chaos.
and in places where there is no control over illegal opium growing, you can rest assured that there is no control over how they treat their women either. (same as always)
audit-prosecute-incarcerate
lets deal with facts....they dont want us there
but if we leave, then it becomes a haven for terrorists
so just nuke the bastards
make one big hole in the ground
but first, send cheney, bush and rummy there
...are a sick fuck...
Hooray!!!...we could turn Iraq into a big sheet of plate glass and just use giant squeegee's to sweep the oil into the big pits left by a few hundred 25,000 lb bunker busters huh? (we're not finished there either)
audit-prosecute-incarcerate
i say we help them all out
so iraq can be next...
whatever
There seems to be a good number of Afghanis who recognize that allowing the Taliban back into power would be a disaster for what's left of modernity (except in weaponry) in the country. There are no good solutions to this situation. Although if we could get our good friends in the Pakistani government to stop supporting the Taliban... .
Terrorists have to live somewhere. The smartest weapon against terrorists is a population hostile to their activities. By collectively punishing a population, you defeat the entire purported purpose of engaging the US military on foreign soil.
You are worst than the far right wing in the republican party.
You think nuking is so easy and will solve all your problems. Well you are wrong, nuclear bombs will only encourage terrorists. they have no cities to lose, and Terrorists are spread in many countries. perhaps you need to nuke the whole planet.
Then some wonder why some countries rush to have the A-bomb
How ironic, sometimes I really respect Republicans when I read this kind of messages.
..Bush told us to go shopping after 9/11. We should have shopped for someone who knew what they were doing.
They so badly bungled that war, its pathetic.
Mickey: "It was an epiphany. Do you know what an epipany is?"
Keoni: "NOT NOW MICKEY!"
11th/01?
You remember, when they killed men,women and children for no other reason that disagreeing with their religious philosophy? Music was banned. If men shaved their beards they were executed. Women were stoned to death for disagreeing with their husbands. All the husband had to do was say she was cheating on him. And that was it. Down to the soccer stadium and stoned to death. This was going on in 2000 and early 2001. And had been fostering for a number of years.
Now, I would like to see the US get out of there just as much as anyone here. I just can't see how we can do it.
The taliban took over that country in what...96-2001 ?
Al Queda were being harbored there. There was no real Gov't there.
Sure, we can say, Let them fix it. And I'd agree with you.
But the problem is..... Boosh Fucked it up. He ignored it.
This thing in Afghanistan will never end. Unless the people of Afghanistan want it changed. Until then, we should leave. Immediately.
But at what risk?
Pakistan is right next door. And their Govt' is becoming more and more unstable. The southwest of Pakistan is a lawless territory.
Last time the US left, there was a power vacuum and the Taliban took over. And things went from bad to worse.
OK, lets take a look at our options.
1: Just leave. And let the cards fall where they may.
2: Stay: And try to get that govt' to start dealing with the Taliban and Al Queda.
Neither one is acceptable.
When the US fought in Korea, it was to help the Korean people stay free from communism. WW2, to liberate people.
I don't see any difference. Except that these violent organizations actually attacked us. And were killing there own people.
Now, I say again, I would like to see us get the fuck out of there as soon as possible. Like Yesterday..
But I think we have to be a little flexible.
Ok, say we leave. And after we leave, the area turns into a training ground for jihadists . It will. We all know that. It will happen. And right next door is a nuclear nation who's becoming more and more unstable. This isn't a pretty picture.
Like I said. I do want us to leave there as soon as possible.
But the consequences of fucking this up can be enormous.
If only this would have been done right the first time around.
What is your conceptual, continuity?
what is to stop any nation from being a breeding ground for terrorists? Does the world invade every nation that "might"?
Afghanistan has been a pawn for decades. If they truly wanted to defeat terrorism, the real military answer is kindness. Help these citizens achieve a life worth living instead of treating them all like some evil scourge. You would eliminate terrorism completely. But nobody wants to do that in any nation. Look at Africa, Ethiopia in particle. Famine for decades. People literally starving. Do they get help? Not really. Token help. Nothing more. The world's military spending for a year alone, would completely eradicate world hunger. Why don't they?
One of my points is look what happened after the USSR pulled out.
The same thing will happen again. I'm all for helping the people there without the use of military force.
Yes the US has failed in there token help in all the countries you mentioned. I agree with you CC.
But this is a different situation both then and now.
As I said above, I'm all for leaving asap. But are we willing to accept what happens next? Either way the end result will be trouble .
And milquetoast, that was unwarranted.
I'm guessing you didn't see all of my comment.
Either way, it's going to cost the US.
What I'm asking for are some ideas or solutions on how to end this as soon as possible. The sooner the better.
This is an unwinnable situation . I said I would like to see us out asap. How about some ideas on how to do that?
What is your conceptual, continuity?
actual aid to normal Afghanis, whomever they may be. The world is spending the money anyway on bombs to kill them. I said the same thing about Iraq. If you offer desparate people actual help, why would they need to join a group that hates you? They would not. So if we actually help these people, the cost will actually be paid for in the long run. And truly let them choose who they want to run their own nations, instead of some puppet that will do the bidding of some nation's corporate hooligans.
If a nation (any nation) bombed my home, I would hate their guts and would be one of the first in line to fight them. BUT if a nation started dropping me food, and sending in help, why would I hate them? Fear only works for so long, then people aren't afraid anymore, and are just angry.
And Pakistan is turning into yet another clusterf*ck all thanks to unmanned and manned bombing of innocent civilians. You don't win friends and allies by killing their families. Thanks for the thoughtful post Mudshark. It is quite obvious though, that no matter what we want, we aren't going to get sadly.
But there' one little caveat.
The religious fundies there.
They'll never accept any help from us infidels. All they'll do is take it for themselves.
What is your conceptual, continuity?
Leave.
We are radicalizing the population, and more US killing will only worsen the situation.
Our previous involvement in Afghanistan, as you remember, was instrumental in forming a very radical group, known affectionately by the media as Al Queda.
We have always propped up dictators, tyrants and terrorists. You don't have these type of involvements if you are on humanitarian missions. I think you need to look at US involvement in Afghanistan and Pakistan with a bit more realism.
mudshark...you oughtta join the Obama army with Uncle Joe...
go show Russia...and George W. (and everone else who has failed) how ta "Git er' done"!!!
(sorry mudshark... I jumped on you a little there. I think things are so (economically, militarily, and constitutionally )grim now that consequences halfway on the other side of the globe should be the least of Americans worries right now.
audit-prosecute-incarcerate
I understand this is a hot button issue. And yes, the priority should be fix our own house first.
I knew I was going to get blasted for that opinion.
I just think we need to weigh everything before we commit ourselves. No harm no foul.
heh, give new meaning to the term jumping the shark,No? :)
What is your conceptual, continuity?
I think the only way to save Afghanistan if to institute a very long-term Western intervention there; some way to bring Western values, such as they are, to a country that is mostly mired in the Middle Ages, warlordism, and politics by clan.
Give the people a better alternative to what they have. Health care, education, economic assistance, basic cable, etc.
Of course, we need those things here in America, too.
But it has to come from Muslim countries.
We can't fix all that ails that country.
Hell, just eradicating the poppy trade would be virtually impossible.
The druglords will never let that happen. I will say this for the Taliban. They succeeded in clamping down on that one.So, If they can do it. I don't see why it can't be done. Bear in mind though, that the Talibans enforcers would just kill them.
What is your conceptual, continuity?
western values...you mean like?
mini skirts and high heels...
shopping malls...
convienience stores...
SUV's...
pornography...
Republicans...
GMO foods...
McDonalds...
video games...
millions of miles of asphalt...
corporatism...
diebold machines...
free speech zones...
our banking system...
If I were an Afghanistanian...I'd say no to all the above exept of course mini skirts and high heels...and that other one...#5
audit-prosecute-incarcerate
keep the South Koreans free from communism. The war was actually provoked by the U.S. and South Korean governments for several reasons: It gave the fascists in power in South Korea an excuse to murder tens of thousands of leftists (including innocents, women, children, etc.). They're still finding mass graves in South Korea.
It also took pressure of our wingnut friends in Taiwan. Communist China was getting ready to invade Taiwan; the Korean War was a way to get the Chinese military tied down elsewhere.
Much of this was courtesy of the CIA, of course.
I had forgotten all of that. And parts of it are new to me too.
I remember reading about the mass graves. Theres a few different versions of how all that came about.
One was SK(ROK) soldiers couldn't tell the difference between the NK's and the fleeing SK's. And were worried about infiltrators. So they shot them all. I also read that a certain bridge was bombed that was packed with people trying to flee NK. That bridge was bombed with all those people on it. I think the US bombed it. I could be wrong about that though. I hope I am.
What is your conceptual, continuity?
That was one of at least 60 incidents where the U.S. military, worried that North Korean troops would infiltrate with fleeing refugees, ordered American troops to kill refugees. In fact, the Pentagon, in its 'investigation', somehow missed the document that proved that the U.S. ambassador to SK had been at the high-level meeting where it was decided that killing refugees to prevent infiltrators would be official, but secret, U.S. policy. At No Gun Ri, at least 163 were killed, and as many as 400.
The massacres I'm talking about happened in the very early days of and even before the war. Leftist political prisoners, suspected leftists, regular jail inmates, the families of suspected leftists, innocent people, were rounded up by the South Korean government, driven to secluded locations, and murdered by various means. The South Korean government, after about 50 years of U.S. supported and enforced right-wing rule, is now investigating these crimes, mostly by interviewing the survivors among the troops who did the killing.
Rev. Moon is widely acknowledged as a creature of the South Korean CIA. That should get you some interesting Googling.
That's the one. Ugly stuff.
But how do we get the hell out of Afghanistan without creating an even bigger problem.?
I'm not concerned about saving face. I want this ended asap.
But there are some outstanding issues that need to be addressed. Namely, who is going to police the country?
I think your on to something with getting the Muslim countries to contribute to stabilizing the areas.
Pakistan will need help to.
This isn't going to go away anytime soon.
fubar.
What is your conceptual, continuity?
when the south koreans were abandoning soul the government blew up the han river bridge with at leat 600 civillians men women and children because they couldnt get the refugees to stop crossing , as for the north koreans infiltraiting refugee collums it happened and many gis were killed by them, im not defending what happened it is what it is!
And I suppose you could say the same for Afghanistan.
Do we just leave and say fuckem?
The help has to come from Muslim countries. Until that help arrives, we're stuck there. Letting that country slip into chaos is a mistake. We need to start making the other Muslim countries start policing the area. So we can leave.
After that. They're on their own.
What is your conceptual, continuity?
like most countrys after we leave they will go back to thier old ways weather they get better as a countrys thier own affair and thier buisness not ours, they will rise or fall on thier own and if they threaten packistan it has its own army for protection, afganistans starting to draw the freedom fighters from all the countrys surrounding it to oppose our military , it wont be long before we are faced with increased deaths worse the iraq , its time to get out its not our war its bushes!
And I agree we should leave asap.
The question is: Are we willing to accept the outcome? Time will tell. My hope is that when we leave, Afghanistan becomes somewhat stabilized.
This can all be solved with the help of the other Muslim countries. Until they jump in. We're fucked.
Ofcourse this is all Boosh's fault. He ignored the whole mess. Now we're left to deal with it.
I'd be willing to bet Obama will figure a way out of this for us. Not right away mind you. But it will come to a close. Not soon enough for me though.
My only real concern about this is what will happen after we leave? There has to be other Muslim countries there to keep a lid on it. Otherwise it will boil over. And who know what will happen then?
What is your conceptual, continuity?
what would make you think any muslim countrys willing to help us after we murdered a million of thier fellow muslims none of them want us there hell not even the saudis! who are bushes buddys! you might as well ask for nato forces!
It's going to take some serious diplomacy.
If we can't get them on board in 4-6 months.
Then I say pack it in. simple as that. But we have to try. At least, I think we should try.
After that. Buh Bye!
What is your conceptual, continuity?
enough said!
with insane people who are willing to blow themselves up?
the same way one negotiates with states that indescriminately shell innocent kids and call them terrorists?
What one does do is get the very same people to do it. And then they straighten it out. tyree is right though.
No one can win in Afghanistan. Except the Afghanis. The mountains.
What is your conceptual, continuity?
the korean war was our fault , i dont think it was planned , if that had been the case we would have furnished the south with large ammounts of offensive weapons as it was when the last army troops , the 7th divison left south korea after ww2 , trueman left the south with only defensive weapons as trueman felt that sigman rhee would start a war with the north to reunify his country, america was in no way prepared for a war in korea , militarliy we were stripped down to a skeliton army navy and marine corps , the reason kim illsung felt he could send his army south of the 38th was that john foster dulles announced america would no defend any countrys past the phillipine islands , even though we had a pact with rhee!
you will find the north koreans murdered as many south koreans as the south did after the north koreans drove back the south koren troops they rounded up political prisoners teachers doctors ex military ect and mass murdered them !
i dont know where you got your information on the korean war at but since i fought there i got interested in the reason for the war from all sides who fought there, and your right many terrible things happened , but its absolutly not true that we wished for war with china , by the time the war started the chinese national army was defeated and fled to formosa , and the chinese communists were not able to mount an attack on formosa at that time , and as i said we left the south koreans with no tanks few air craft , little artillery while the north had all thoes offensive weapons, at the time the war started most of our ships were in mothballs , our army divisons from ww2 disbanded except for a few , our marine corp was a shell of itself , when the war started we had two marine divisons but we had to combine both divisons to make one full divison and we called up our reservists to fill in , the first american troops trueman mustered up to be sent to korea were garrison troops from japan poorly trained and with little ammunitions no tanks artillery or good equipment,to fight with, if trueman was looking for a war he picked the wrong place to fight the chinese or koreans at, koreas just afganistan with high mountains and afganistans the same kind of country only on steroids, as far as keeping red china from takeing formosa the us navy was guarding the straights 24 hours a day with a destroyer divison as soon as the war in korea started i know because my destroyer and myself spent many days and nights patrolling the straights,
Is this a "republican" insurgency? Is Pete Sessions, the one who said he wants to attack the Democrats, the orchestrator of this Taliban suicidal operation? Send in all the republicants that want to be Taliban members (that's what Sessions claims) to go clean up the mess they made. Damn the republican Taliban! Doesn't Iraq have a Republican Guard? This must be the last republican offensive. The republicans aren't any good anywhere, are they?
Such a waste of life...for nothing. Nothing will change. Just some more blood spilled ....for nothing.
the absolute truth is all you have to do is look at vietnam, we killed them in the thousands and as the years went on all the ones we killed were replaced by the sons and daughters of the ones we killed , howd that work out for us, jesus when will people learn you cant defeat an idea or a trained civilian army thats more then willing to die defending thier way of liveing!
a country that never wanted to stay in the 17th century...we just bombed them into it
there is a different mindset with the taliban
they believe that the modern world is evil...cant really deal with people like that
look, bush lied to us....remember? the taliban were defeated
ya....sure
makes me ill to think that this man is allowed to walk free
Ummmmm uncle joe you seem to forget that we did have relations with the Taliban up until the bush regime needed a boogieman. Hell Taliban leaders were guests at the Texas Governors mansion back in the 90's.
It may have been more than three million.
that most of the murdered were children
are they somehow more valuable than adults?
me-oww!
BAM
Palestinian children are unimportant to you, and Afghani children are important to you.
Thanks for clearing that up.
A question:
WTF are you doing posting on a progressive web site?
me-oww!
Children run the Kabul governments prison and the Ministry of Justice now??? Let me guess, you read that in an Israeli paper?
Upthread, Uncle Joe Mccarthy, you say 'just nuke em' and here you seem to profess concern that 'most of the murdered were children' ...
I seem to recall a lot of murdered Palestinian children in the recent past ...
One of the most interesting details of this is that the reason for the attacks is supposedly torture. Torture in Afghanistan has been documented by numerous human rights groups. Regardless of how the pro-torture crowd will decide to spin this BS, this should serve as yet another reminder why America should not be engaging in torture, and why the Obama administration should not be dragging its feet on investigations and prosecutions. Regardless of whether or not that attackers are being the slightest bit honest in their claim, the fact is that they never should have had the ability to use the fact that we commit torture as a justification.
Obama, stop dancing around this issue and end any means for any thugs to use it as propaganda in the future!
From the most recent reports of the situation in Afghanistan wouldn't the article title have been more accurate to say 'Afghanistan government suicide bombers attack Kabul government buildings.'?
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