Even Forbes Mag Readers Know: There's Something Really Wrong With Our Healthcare System
By Susie Madrak Friday Jun 19, 2009 2:00pm
Forbes is a magazine so bad, I once canceled a free subscription. So I guess I shouldn't be surprised that they've published articles attacking what they call "ObamaCare."
I especially like this one, "ObamaCare Can Punish You for Being Healthy." Now, you would think of the audience that reads Forbes, they would agree - but the comments are overwhelmingly critical of the author's outright hackery. (Which makes me wonder: if readers of a magazine like Forbes are so critical of the health care system, where are the calls opposing reform coming from? Hmm.)
Anyway, here's a sample:
This has got to be one of the worst articles I have seen on Forbes. I am a registered Republican and no left winger but what a crock. The assumption is that the HMO system motivates people to live a more healthy life. God has anybody looked at Americans in the last 40 years! We have a country full of Obese, Unhealthy, entitlement mentality citizens. On the other hand looking at countries like Japan which have partially subsidized health care similar (but not the same) to what the Obama administration is offering has allowed Japan to become one of the healthies countries in the world. They live longer than anywhere else. It is because you can get regular check ups that Doctors are able to influence people with bad habits more regularly to adjust or face the consequences. I know this problem and the laws are MUCH MORE complex than just this, but the logic behind parts of this article are pretty sad.
Or this one:
Will you stop publishing biased articles? First, a piece about the 10 best blue collar jobs -- but you fail to mention that these jobs are all held by men. Then, this slick article about how the healthy will be punished by the prospect of decent health insurance coverage for all. I'll have you know that I have had allergies to dust and mites all of my life. That is considered a "pre-existing" condition. Yep -- something minor treated with allegra is in the same category as a serious condition such as diabetes, heart disease or cancer. My untreated assault as LAUSD while substitute-teaching a PE class with 53 students is also considered a pre-existing condition. But the District's insurance has been stalling treatment for more than a year and when they finally approved it, they approved it for one day two weeks ago. That is absolutely ridiculous. You should be ashamed for misleading the public and writing complete falsehoods.
Or this:
I have no idea where you can get health insurance that tailors your premium to your fitness. My employer (300,000 employees) certainly doesn't offer it and I doubt if most other employers do either. Since I'm tied to my employers' offered plans, it doesn't matter if "someone" out there offers it, I have limited choices. If I could get it, it would probably be like my life insurance- my doctor says I'm extremely healthy but because I have a condition that "can" be a problem, I pay outrageous rates for life insurance. I don't need that for health insurance, too.
Get the picture? Even relatively well-off Americans are unhappy with their very expensive, unreliable health care coverage and see it as inherently unfair - because it is.
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It's gonna take something MASSIVE to get what we want! I am trying to get a demonstration going here ins St. Louis, if not I may try to get to DC on the 25th supposed to be some action there!
Our demonstration will not even receive the back of the news paper coverage and of course you do not expect to see it on the TV news media do you..
Have you not thought about the news media coverage of the demonstrations in Iran , then,,, when Americans were demonstrating in U.S. for Bush's criminal actions and policies ,,, the news media didn't even mention it..
They never shown the illegal beating or arrest that the police were doing to the demonstrators in U.S..
twitter
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United
States
of
Corporate
America
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Yank Health Care for the entire Congress. NOW.
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Q U E S T I O N:
Why does Congress get to enjoy a public health care system denied to the public?
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ANSWER:
Because it would take an act of congress to repeal their healthcare. It would be like asking them to cut their pay or limit their campaign fundraising, or ACT LIKE AMERICANS!!!!!
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Well, if Congress was truly "representative" of The People, then 60% of them would be fighting FOR a public option...
Several would be unemployed...
Many would be bankrupted...
And still more would be pitching tents and hanging 'Home sweet home' signs on the tent post...
But I digress...
... This is America where Democracy is a myth.
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Yesterday I sent an email to every single Republican in the Senate telling them that they were all a bunch of mean-spirited, self-serving plutocrats who don’t really represent the people who were duped into voting for them and only care about the money they get from the lobbyists.
Some people might call this an futile exercise but it made me feel better.
From the Progressive Populist I see that the following nine Republicans who sit on the Finance Committee have taken $17.7 mln from insurance and healthcare interests: Chuck Grassley (Iowa), Orrin Hatch (Utah), John Kyl (Ariz.), Jim Bunning (Kentucky), Mike Crapo (Idaho), Pat Roberts (Kansas), John Ensign (Nevada), Mike Enzi (Wyoming) and John Cornyn (Texas).*
If anyone reading this sees their Senator on this list and you're as pissed off as I am, write to them and let them know!
Go to: http://www.senate.gov/ for their addresses.
*This information comes from the Center for Responsive Politics (OpenSecrets.org).
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Q U E S T I O N:
If I'm forced to carry health INSURANCE...
... Do I get a refund when I die?
How does one INSURE health?
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The main purpose of Forbes magazine is to argue for a low flat tax for Steve Forbes - and variations on that theme.
This Global Empire would pay no taxes and IT Would Be Illegal..
Instead of them putting their money in the illegal off shore accounts and going in partner with all the foreign countries like India and China.
Do you believe that these (what used to be American corporations) are all name brands of India , China , South Korea ...etc.
Mattel , Disney , Ford , GM are all U.S businesses that are now using overseas countries to produce their produces.
They have the democrats fighting the republicans,, they have different races fighting one another ,,, they have religions fighting other religions and non believers ,,, they have every group fighting other groups ,,,, While they walk off with our wealth , power , economy and country...
United we stand and divided we fall...
Well starting with Reagan and finishing with Bush they have divided Americans and stole their democracy and country while we blame each other for THEIR crimes and corruption..
They let us chatter on the internet while they chatter with our democracy and pocket book..
Even the democratic web sites censor some of your post and it not because it foul...
We are not to d... smart are we..
A few comments on the "trillion dollar plus" cost figure of the CBO::
1. We know it was incomplete, but more pertinent: it scored a part of a plan which did not include a public option. Therefore, if there will be these big cost increases, it must be due to the private sector.
2. I would like to see the CBO do a side by side comparison over a projected decade of the cost of a serious Dem plan with the cost increases that took place under the STATUS QUO over the preceding decade. Not to mention that we can't put a dollar figure on the "human suffering quotient" of the STATUS QUO.
3. Finally for those who like to trot out Canada, and its "shortage" of hi-tech diagnostic machinery, compared to the US (they do it on a per capite basis). I say this: we spend double the amount per capita on health care than does Canada - and it will be even high if we have the universal coverage Canada does. So, here's my challenge: split the per capita cost difference (i.e., increase the Canadian available money by 50%, for investments into machinery.....Does anyone doubt that they'd be able to match or even pass us, with money left over? And still be paying 25-35% per capita less than us.
There are ways that we can counter the right-wingers, we just need to do it!
This BS that democrats have to change and dilute the policies to include the republicans so it no longer benefits anyone except this Global Empire Giant that is set to rule this planet.
We are then letting the republicans control our government , policies and democracy.
The Republicans LOST , the Democrats and Independents WON the last two elections>>>
What is so d... hard about figuring this out and creating NEW policies that are for the people and not this d... Global Empire... This Global Empire should be disassembled and go back to the U.S. corporations which are for our citizens and not the greed of the few and and famous..
We now have a extreme right wing republican party and a center right democrat party.
When do the left and Independence get their wishes and idea put into practice..
It is time to start taking a policy on how it benefits the American citizens instead of a left - right - middle... or a democrat - independent -- republicans policies or idea.
Get the picture? Even relatively well-off Americans are unhappy with their very expensive, unreliable health care coverage and see it as inherently unfair - because it is.
Not to mention the subtext that these folks seem to also know that their health care, such as it is, can be pulled out from under them at any moment, leaving them with nothing, nada, zilch, and 'fuck off, peasant'.
The only reason why there appears to be a debate over this issue is that the teevee, controlled or influenced for the most part by the greedy oligarchs, says there is one. And the only reason why the GOP appears to have even the smallest amount of credibility on the topic is because the teevee, for the most part, says so. Other than that, the majority of Americans NOT in public office don't seem to be conflicted at all:
they want health care reform, real and MEANINGFUL reform, and they want it NOW.
http://voices.washingtonpost.com/health-care-...
a large percentage of bankruptcies are linked to medical bills. some say NO more like mortgage defaults and credit cards. my understanding is that many credit cards have medical care/services charged on them. it's not uncommon for a second mortgage to be taken out to cover medical bills.
I would think that the calls are coming from the Health Care Industry. I would say to Obama, "Pass single payer and if it means you lose the election next time so be it." Just do it.
...when 80+ % of Americans want a single-payer, system. The bullshit is getting so absurd that people of all persuasions are aware of it.
The greedy criminals who have been taking this nation to the cleaners, and the prostitutes they have purchased still don't get it. they are going to cling to their greedy sugar plum dreams no matter what. They can no longer even recognize their own self-interests, which is good to see, because they are going to end up screwing themselves right out of the picture.
one person's wrong is another pers$on's right. there are people/corporations/financial elite that don't want reform. why? it may work. it could also strengthen the (D) party. that's not like by the (r) party and financial elites. they want the fragmented/inefficient healthCare system we have so the insurance can keep their MONEY in investments.
I believe thats called "profit".
Even slightly off-kilter Canadian whackjobs living in Asia (me) know your health care system is fucked. So I'm sure, you, the payers, know well yourselves.
Maybe we just need to convince the elite bastards that in a short time they will no longer be rich and elite because no one will be able to purchase the products they are peddling because everyone is wasting their hard earned money on healthcare. In other words, healthcare for all means we all have more money to spend on consumer goods. Why haven't they figured that out? They really must want a lot of people to die due to poor health...
Anyone else notice the similarity between the Frank Luntz Fear Factor Talking Points on Health Care:
Obama's plan will cost granny her health care! And your own family too!
and the Frank Luntz Fear Factor Talking Points on Closing Gitmo:
Obama's plan will move terrorists next door to granny! And to your own family too!
Off the subject, but just more evidence that Republican talking points are 98% hot air:
"When America hears the call for Freedom, She should answer!"
Eric Cantor, today, criticizing Obama over Iran!
For the sake of my sanity, I am eternally grateful not to be a Republican.
We do not need a public option, it will just take away the incentive for people to live and eat healthy.
If we have a public option then we will have Americans going to the emergency room for ankle sprains, which is a waste of money and resources.
Honestly we should go 100% private, so every individual has the incentive to take care of themselves and there kids.
IF and I mean IF we have a public option it should be based on your health, i.e. body fat and habits. 5"10lbs 190 13% body fat, non smoker, full coverage.
5"8 230lbs 30% body fat, smoker, limited coverage..
With people retiring and average Americans getting fatter the cost will go through the roof...
really. go away.
I work, I pay taxes, I pay for health benefits. If I didnt go to the doctor for one lousy thing I would still fork out $8500.00 a year and wouldnt see a dime back.
and going to the ER for a sprain is a waste of money? Whose, exactly?
really. go away.
a waste of mine and your taxing paying dollars. Let's face it, ankle sprain can be taken care of at a local doctor and if someone is going to the er for this its because they don't have to pay for it!
My way you don't for over $8500 and you could buy your own insurance..
I think there's plenty of need to get nasty.
You have no idea about the nightmare that is the 'healthcare' system. I am living it.
That cost is family of four, btw.
The ankle sprain argument being a waste of money is based on the current cost. Which is ridiculously inflated. I would rather pay the 8500 into a tax funded system than the hole I am dumping it in now. I would even wager they would want less than that the year after.
Better than the insurance goons who will only raise it some more.
... to provide a nice example of the definition of insanity: "do the same thing over and over and expect a different outcome."
In order to fix a private healthcare system, let's make it more "private" (and how do you make something that is already 100% private more "private?")... LOL.
So if I don't agree with you I'm a "troll"?
BTW its not "%100" private, we have medicade, medicare, etc, to much government driving up the price..
IF the government is paying then doctors are going to order more and more test that are not needed because eh, its free!!!
We are setting are selves up for a massive scam..
or may not be a troll, but you really don't know what you are talking about. I'm going to venture a guess that you know little to nothing about medicine, but fancy yourself an expert. Dr.s don't order tests for the fun of it, many tests expose people to radiation, extensive time on their backs that they can't handle, etc. I had to argue extensively with a physician the other day and then go over his head to obtain a very necessary test for a patient that he did not want to order - my physical exam of the patient revealed the need for the test.
As long as we are held captive by for profit health coverage, our coverage can be changed or canceled on a whim and where do you go Einstein when your coverage is canceled and no one else will insure you???
are notorious for over testing/spending, anything to bump up the bill to the insurance company, who in turn decides how little they will pay the hospital. This partly explains the legion of paper shufflers in hospitals and HI companies.
A few years ago during a hospital stay for a member of my family, (on the itemized bill) the hospital charged $50 for a $2 box of Kleenex !!
In Britain where the majority of dental work is insurance based not NHS, dentists are routinely audited and found to be scamming the HI companies for work not done.
his point was that a public option would mean physicians would order more tests, my point was only if they are idiots. No one with any respectable training simply orders x-rays because they can and some actually dole out care in dribs and drabs.
You're right about the mark up, but that is one of the crafty ways that they have all been gaming the system to help pay for those that can't.
I was a nonsmoking running vegetarian who got cancer. I had no insurance due to unemployment. Very large incentive to stay healthy. Does not always work.
Explain that Einstein.
ANd tell me, how are the unemployed going to pay for private?
This is the stupidest goddamned idea I have ever heard. How long havr you worked in the health insurance industry
HRC's vision of health care for Americans, was mandatory insurance under pain of legal action for refusing to purchase. So the poor have a choice, expensive compulsory insurence or food/heat/rent.
Pure coincidence that the medical insurance industry is one of the largest political donors to the majority of Congresscritters.
people show up at emergency rooms now with colds and the flu because they don't have coverage. The ERs are congested to the point that people that really have emergent, life-threatening conditions have trouble being seen.
Are you healthy and fit? You don't smoke? I work in an intensive care unit that is also a regional stroke center and I've personally taken care of a few people that exercised, didn't smoke, ate very well, and had virtually no stroke risk, but they still had strokes. Just because you do everything right and take care of yourself does not mean you will be immune from disease or escape changes in your physical health. Sheesh.
Evenso, those without insurance and are "semi" ok? I guess you could say are sent home and told oh, there is nothing wrong with you. 5 yrs later I am still trying to walk.
Three points about “health care reform”:
First, no one is talking about how many Americans are ALREADY on Federal health care, with the government as payer. These would include ALL US military and their families, ALL retired US military and their families, ALL federal employees and their families, active and retired whether Executive, Legislative, or Judicial branches, ALL Medicare and Medicaid recipients, ALL Federal prisoners.
Toss in ALL state and local government employees, and it’s a heck of a large number. NO ONE IS TOTALLING THIS CROWD!
If you put the UNINSURED on ONE side, and the GOVERNMENTALLY INSURED on the other, who’s left? Let’s see the numbers!
Second, the President has already endorsed the Federal Direct Student Loan Program, originated and operated by civil servants in the Department of Education. This is because it’s simpler, cheaper, and probably fairer. The parallels with single payer health insurance are PALPABLE, but NO ONE is talking about them. Why not?
Third, and very important, SENATORS AND CONGRESSMEN receive VERY GENEROUS health care benefits, and are not taxed for them, and they’re paid for BY THE GOVERNMENT, and WHO ARE THEY to deny similar benefits to others? Are they THAT MUCH BETTER THAN WE ARE??
It is important to keep mentioning all three points, especially the last, because we need to open the OVERTON WINDOW to a wider public discussion! Check it out! Get with it!!
For over forty years Arizona's penal system has had 224 open air 'dog cages' for holding prisoners temporarily !!! up to 10 days in some cases...
So they put a 48 year old woman Marcia Powell (awaiting transfer to a mental health facility) in one for 4 hours with no water or shade from the burning sun, she is rushed to a hospital's ER room four hours later when she is seen to comatose, then she dies from heat stroke. We prosecuted and executed Japanese/Korean POW camp guards for similar post WW2.
http://www.burninginfo.com/story.php?title=in...
That has fuck all to do with this post. What's your point already?
The amount of students accepted at every American medical college is severely restricted. Open up the schools to all applicants and as supply meets demand prices will drop to a competitive level. All doctors don't need to be the best and brightest. A mediocre doctor with a good diagnostic tool in his hands can be very effective.
A goodly part of medical diagnosis could darn-near be done by sophisticated medical computer programs like Medical HouseCall, Mayo Clinic Family Health, AMA's Family Medical Guide. Direct patients through initial screening by an intermediate-level health care professional using an advanced diagnostic-type medical program before entering them into the system.
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