Mirror Time: How Many Black Kids Are Swimming in Any of Our Pools?
By Susie Madrak Friday Jul 10, 2009 3:00pm
(Photo by James Heaney, Philadelphia Daily News)
It seems like any time the opportunity comes up to have a real discussion about race in this country, to turn an awful situation into a teaching moment, it almost always gets reduced to this binary equation: Terrible Racist Bigots vs. Enlightened White Liberals.
So when I saw the well-meaning outcry against the racially-tinged ousting of a group of young Philadelphia kids from a suburban swim club, I thought to myself: Oh, here we go again.
I grew up in Philadelphia during a very troubled time. During the '60s, block-busting realtors resorted to abominable scare tactics to get white homeowners to sell, even resorting to middle-of-the-night phone calls: "You'd better get out now while your house is still worth something." There were gang fights and even a few deaths in the neighborhood.
My family wasn't one of the ones that left. My mother wouldn't dream of it, and she welcomed our new black neighbors. My brothers, however, were dealing with the changing neighborhood out on the street, where every pointless violent incident against one group was answered by another. ("West Side Story," only without the soundtrack.)
Understand, all the kids were feeling the tension. We couldn't go to the public swimming pool at the Kingsessing Rec Center that was an easy walk from our house, because it was in a black neighborhood and if we went there, we'd get harassed or even beaten up. So we walked almost three miles to the Finnegan Playground instead - a long walk on a scorching hot day for kids. It seemed to take forever.
When I saw this story in the news, I wondered why the day care program kids didn't go to the closest public pool. But then I thought, maybe it was one of the white pools and they didn't want the hassle. See, we still think that way.
***
Flash forward twenty years. I'm a single mom with two kids, and my mom is watching them while I'm at work. Part of the deal is that she spends the day with them at the local swim club.
One day, when I come to pick them up, I go to the office to reserve a barbecue pit for the weekend; I'd invited some friends from work for a cookout. The manager (who was also the mayor of the town where I lived) said, "You know you can't bring any coloreds in here, right?"
I was shocked. Speechless, really. I finally said, "As it happens, none of the people I invited are black." I left, shaking with anger. But I was also in a moral dilemma because I needed my mom's help and I knew she loved the pool. What to do?
I'm ashamed to say I did nothing. But it really bothered me, and a few weeks later, I wrote a column about it. (My parents and kids were confronted about it by other pool members.)
We live in segregated worlds, and on some level, that's by choice - whether we admit it or not. Most of us work with all kinds of people, but who do we socialize with in our private lives? We might look down our nose at a low-class neighbor who uses the N word, but maybe we wouldn't even think of going to certain bars and restaurants because there aren't any white people.
Are we ever quite as liberal as we like to think?
When you picked the place you wanted to raise your kids, did you choose a top school district that (just incidentally, of course) happened to be 98% white? Or, if you live in an integrated area, did you send your kids to private school "because they'll get a better education"? Deep down, were you relieved, thinking your kids were somehow safer? Ask yourself why.
Right now is the first time in my adult life that I haven't lived in an integrated neighborhood. Not by any intent, it just worked out that way - and sometimes I feel a little apologetic about it. And sometimes I hear neighbors say things I can hardly believe, because white people so often assume all white people agree with them. But I don't, and I let them know.
My kids went to majority-black public schools in our inner-ring suburb. It was a conscious decision by my husband and me; my Jewish mother-in-law, a retired Philadelphia school teacher, was upset and offered to send them to Catholic school instead.
"They'll be fine," we said. And mostly, they were. (Although now my grown kids tell me stories about how they were threatened and harassed by black kids because they had a Jewish last name.)
Until a few years ago, my best friend was black, and her family openly derided white people. "White people are crazy," her father always said. And even though I agreed, I'd still protest. "Hey, I'm right here," I'd say.
"Oh, Susan, you're not white," her family members would say. "You're one of us." But I wasn't. And even though I ate Thanksgiving and Christmas dinners with their clan, that didn't make me black, nor could it really let me understand the life they live. (Although I do know a lot about black women's hair issues.)
But I empathize, because I'm an outsider, too. And that's why I'd much rather sit down and have a discussion with the people from that swim club than to ridicule and shame them for their ignorance. Like Anne Frank, I do believe people are good at heart, and that these swim club members reacted to a perceived threat out of fear. Because I understand they're afraid, and I feel just as sorry for them as I do for the kids who were crushed by their bigotry.
Now, if you think the best way to deal with fear is to attack the people who feel it, well, I guess you won't agree with what I just wrote.
(And just as a postscript: The pool in question does have black members, and it's possible that class was at least as big a factor as race.)








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if those kids came to a pool that i was in charge of (and i ran several of them) and would not or could not behave, the lot of them would be thrown out and banned. i did it to church groups and even to the kids from the school for the deaf.
who wants to be responsible for kids who will not behave? not me. do you?
jimn0, if you came to a pool that i was in charge of and would not or could not behave, you would be thrown out and banned. They do it to lot's of people, and you are no different.
who wants to be responsible for you if you will not shut up? not me. Nor anyone else'm quite sure there jimn0
Too many "ifs" there jimn0. here's an if for you - If you raise a straw man arguement you will be ridiculed.
"Too many "ifs" there jimn0. here's an if for you - If you raise a straw man arguement you will be ridiculed." really.
what straw man argument was i raising? can you be more clear?
i would have thought Morehouse might have helped your thinking and your spelling, i guess not.
please go back to selling your michael jackson love bead curtains and leave us alone.
To light a fire, you ought, at least, to disply a minimum of intelligence. I'd even settle for funny. You failed on both counts.
And here's your straw man. The issue is not the behavior of the children. Call it a tangent, straw man argument, whatever. The issue was racism. Right?
in my own experience with most groups. if you toss one, you have to toss the lot of them.
What do you mean by "the lot of them?" Would you throw out all the children at one of your pools? I am trying to understand you.
if you brought your 5 kids to one of my pools and we had to warn one of them more than once, the lot of you would have to leave for the day. those were the rules. and they worked. when mom and your siblings had to suffer for your transgressions, you usually did not misbehave again until next summer.
I do not want to assume I know what you are talking about.
and then goes on to iterate several more "ifs" none of which have anything to do with the original post, the information as is presently known or the discussion going on... isn't that pretty much the definition of a "straw man" argument?
No where in any of the articles or news clips that I have seen on this did they say anything about these young people misbehaving. That is a lame, bullshit, after the fact excuse for overt racism. I call you out on your bullshit.
was some hausfrau saw BLACK kids and IMMEDIATELY surmised they'd harm HER immaculate conceptions and immediately started bitching to the gutless wonders in charge.
So the Sports Utility Lib kicked them out because he didn't have the stones or the backing to tell one bourgeois cracker to suck on it for a day.
if you want it to be a racial issue, go right ahead. you are doing nothing but showing the rest of us how you behave under pressure. not well.
>
your earlier comment.
Which one?
your first comment. i already responded to your second comment. this messaging setup is screwy.
necessary or helpful. I asked if you would not just toss out the ones who were misbehaving, and you, referring to a family, and not a group, said you would. Of course you would. One of life's biggest irritations is parents who do not control their children. I am with you. If it was a group of children, then throwing them all out sounds harsh. Why would all children be punished for the behavior of a few or even one. That is what would piss me off as someone's mother. If, as appears below, they were all too little and there wasn't room for them, well, better not to kill any. And finally, if it was the straw man thing, I believe I don't need to repeat that point.
As a teacher, I don't punish the whole class if a few kids are misbehaving. It would just be WRONG.
ed, this is another matter entirely.
after you had to haul one of your kids out of the classroom and clear the water out of their lungs while you called them an ambulance, you just might.
letting kids drown because of other, larger kids doing stupid things is wrong in my book.
or is that OK in your school district?
apparantly some witnesses are saying it wasn't about safety at all. We will see...
Who said there were any problems with the kids that were swimming, besides you?
Where did you read they were misbehaving in the pool?
The Creative Steps day camp director Althea Wright brought the minority kids to the pool on June 29. When they entered the pool, many of them say they overheard racial remarks by white pool members. 11-year-old Marcus Allen was quoted in a USA Today story with these remarks.
The Creative Steps kids were allowed to swim. (my addition: apparently without incident) But days later the camp director was notified that her contract - allowing access to the private swimming pool - was being canceled with a full refund but no explanation
There's your straw man jimn0.
got any more scare crow stories?
[Deleted. Off topic]
Are you saying these kids are responsible for the activity in that article? Or just using it as an argument to hate on minorities?
As I'm an English teacher, I've nevr had to clear water out of...
What I said stands. If you are a lifeguard, your order everyone out of the water, not off the premises, forever.
you failed to read the earlier posts. then you then you compared apples to oranges and told us how WRONG i am.
we hardly ever banned and barred people from the municipal pools. it was pretty much impossible to enforce and they could always just go to another pool.
Suddenly, you're the victim and I failed in my reading.
Typical.
typical of what, a college educated mostly irish guy?
typical of "pullin a Palin" on people.
You know the type - it's never your fault.
Mostly Irish!!! What species is the rest?
(It's a Fox and Freinds funnin' ya thing.)
you watch fox and friends? really?
what little respect i might have harbored for you is gone.
I don't think there was much to begin with. My loss.
Again, Bullshit!! No one was in danger of drowning and the "misbehaving" is made up to cover for the racism. BULLSHIT!!!!
the procedure with families was to warn the adult one time about the kids. then toss them. there would be much screaming and wailing. i had to call the police several times.
the procedure with groups was to bench them all one time for 3 minutes. and from there on out, no warnings were to be given. just toss them. much screaming and wailing ensued. i gave tehm the number to complain to. like the fine folks at the city of dallas cared.
Where is your proof the kids misbehaved (and I'll shut up.)
(I'm only reading from the internets, like the rest of us. We were not there.)
Ya, jimn0, what's going on here?
having some experience in the running and managing of municipal pools, i speak from experience, you on the other hand, do not. you just want to cause problems and make accusations. what are you, a mini al sharpton?
the comments made at that other pool were bad and would have had us all fired and rightfully so. but to accuse me of a straw man attack and then not back it up, get over yourself.
You shouldn't work with the public if you aren't capable of learning the facts before passing judgment. You apparently failed to understand that the black kids did nothing to deserve their punishment other than being born black. You really have no business working in a field where you deal with the public since you happily and ignorantly make snap decisions that are made without fact or merit and are willing to punish whole groups of innocent kids based on your ignorance...
Stay away from our public pools. Our kids deserve better than what you are willing to offer...
in my comments, i was speaking from my own personal experience,[Deleted. Abusive-Sitemonitor]as far as i can tell, you never ran a municipal pool and you have no experience whatsoever in in the field.
or did you?
Ok, Beck or O'Reilly or whoever you are. I am a blogger sitting in my parents basement eating cheetos in my PJs. Can you be any more obviously ignorant???
Who cares what you would have done in your pool. It had nothing to do with this story. Those kids were NOT acting up as each of your responses have implied. I would hope that your response when working at the pool had some correlation to what was going on at the pool and not some snap judgment made on something that might have happened 30 years ago...
Get with the program and quit commenting as though these kids did anything wrong. They didn't. The only reason they were kicked out is because the white parents felt uncomfortable being around black children and complained...
Now explain to me what ANY of your comments above have to do with what happened to these kids in this story. Your comments had NOTHING to do with the story other than to suggest that the kids had done something to deserve being permanently kicked out of the pool. They were kicked out for being black, nothing more...
Apparently you didn't even bother learning anything about this before you posted your response. The black children did not do anything wrong. They were not acting up. They were being respectful. All they did "wrong" was be born black and that is why they were kicked out. A few members complained about the changing "complexion" of the pool, and bam, the kids are banned from the pool and their registration fees were returned...
You assumed that the reason the kids were kicked out was because they were misbehaving, simply because they were black. That makes you just as bad as the parents who complained about the changing "complexion" of the pool. Racism is still alive and well in Amerikkka...
code words? you're not even concealing it well. Claim it reflects on me if you will, but your words speak only for you. misdirection and verbal cloaking of your racism via code words will not serve you. any pretense of open-mindedness is farcical at best.
you are not even good at masquerading as a concern troll because your hatred is so open.
you are a racist and not a polished one at that.
The story involves more than a concern for behavior of the black children. listen to the statement made by the white supporter of Obama who was concerned with the "complexion" of things. you are as hypocritical as he.
You may live in a segregated world but my world is rich in it's diversity. We are each the cause in the matter of our lives. If your world is segregated it is because you choose it to be.
Segregate; 1.to separate from others; set apart
You write this column as if your segregated existence is something that was done to you. It is a choice. You have chosen to separate from others.
I usually don't read such drivel at C&L.
I was shocked to read this article at C&L. It's not what I would expect from this community...
Half of all my best friends are black. I could have chosen and associated only white friends like many do in this area. When MLK talked about the "Color Blind" society, I embraced the concept and have never been sorry for doing so. I have often had to speak up when racism has reared its ugly head, which it often does in the Deep South...
I may not be the most popular guy in those racist circles, but I can sleep soundly at night knowing that I am doing the right thing when confronting racism headfirst. By saying nothing or accepting it, we are condoning racism. Surely we can do better than this in this country. Remaining quiet will never destroy racism, it will only help to perpetuate it indefinitely...
Change starts with each individual. The author of this article doesn't seem to understand this concept...
Good for you. This will only change over time. The best news is that the racists and homophobes have already lost and they know it. All polls show increasing tolerance in the younger generations.
I just saw this MLK quote at the end of one of the recent C&L videos that is very relevant to this topic:
"In the end, we will remember not the words of our enemies, but the silence of our friends." - Martin Luther King, Jr
I hope hundreds of people stand up in front of the pool in protest against what they did to these kids. To remain silent is to condone and perpetuate the behavior. Racists and their enablers must be confronted head on in order to stop the practice. It isn't likely to change the minds of the racists, but it will drive them into their closets and away from public view. Racism cannot be tolerated, not now, not ever...
This column ought to bring them out of the woodwork. jimn0 is a pretty tame racist response actually.
The moron in question is another example of institutionalized racism and ignorance (whether from being uneducated or wilfully so, I can't tell).
Of all the people I know who accept the fact of human migration out of Africa in the last 50,000 years, as proven through the testing of DNA, not a single person is racist, and I don't mean they don't use racial slurs. I mean that the people who accept it see "race" the way I do: Barack Obama is a human being, no other definition - not "black" or anything else.
That people still see "white" and "black" is part of the problem. The day I see someone as being from a "different race" is the day that my genetic group can't reproduce with anothers' because of genetic incompatibility, not infertility. And even if that happened, the person or group would still be a rational, thinking individual deserving of respect.
thanx!
"One day, when I come to pick them up, I go to the office to reserve a barbecue pit for the weekend; I'd invited some friends from work for a cookout. The manager (who was also the mayor of the town where I lived) said, "You know you can't bring any coloreds in here, right?"
I was shocked. Speechless, really. I finally said, "As it happens, none of the people I invited are black." I left, shaking with anger. But I was also in a moral dilemma because I needed my mom's help and I knew she loved the pool. What to do?
I'm ashamed to say I did nothing..."
"He who passively accept evil is as much involved in it as he who helps to perpetrate it. He who accepts evil without protesting against it is really cooperating with it."
Martin Luther King Jr.
Well, I'm glad you at least wrote the article. But did you ever confront that racist directly?
...and will you going forward? I've sacrificed business partners [republican of coarse] over it.
Is he a racist or just more honest about his choice to separate himself from others?
that's the answer! this can't be parsed. it's active or passive if you want to parse, but it's racism nonetheless.
what color they are referring to. It usually, at least, embarrasses them. Better than slapping them across the face, from a legal perspective.
That's a good one, except no one has ever said such a thing to me. Canadian, eh?
either.
...it was a matter of safety. The club is saying there were simply too many kids for the pool, as did the representative of another group that came to the pool and had the same thing happen to them, even though their group was NOT mostly minority kids. The pool is 2/3rds deep water, and the kids were all little kids who could only use the shallow end. Overcrowding resulted. There are laws about that, and rightly so.
Whether that actually WAS the reason or not, it's a more than plausible explanation. So why not include THAT in your article? Too inconvenient to the much sexier issues of racism and bigotry, I take it.
That's what the general manager said. He was afraid that all those children would "change the complexion" of the swim club! Interesting turn of phrase when you're trying to refute charges of racism!
If it was simply a matter of the facilities being inappropriate for the age/swimming abilities of the children, both sides are at fault for not asking the right questions before writing a contract and accepting the money.
By the way, not sure of the point of this article. It's hard to tell if the author is whining about liberal guilt or justifying living in her own white-only world or making excuses for why different races don't seem to get along.
Hey - s-mom, didn't realize that you visited C & L, too.
Why was the pool 2/3'ds full of water in JULY!
Yeah right. There were other people swimming. You don't let people swim in a pool with water at all that is less than full. It unsafe. Massive fail, try again.
I don't think that's what was meant. It's not that the pool was only 2/3rds full of water, It was that the pool had only 1/3 that was shallow enough for little ones to swim and splash around in and the rest of the pool was deep water.
Plus, the incident occurred in early/mid June.
They had a contract, they paid in advance, they showed up...oh yeah, too many "kids".
sure, when any of them are black I'm sure there's at least one too many. but since they were concerned about the 'complexion', I don't think the issue was headcount.
Posters are too stupid to even begin to plumb the depths of the issue. Got better things to do with my time.
to them when they call you stupid. TTFN
Has the pool director denied making the "a lot of kids would change the complexion … and the atmosphere of the club" comment? Or tried to explain that he meant the age and behavior of the pool users when he used the term "complexion?"
No, he gave up on that one. Now he's claiming it was a safety decision. Let's examine that one...
Here's what I got in my e-mail. It seems a contract was set up, with the camp, beforehand, and money was paid for use of the pool. When making the contract and accepting the money did the club not make any inquiries about the number of children and when they would use the pool? Or set any guidelines? It's seems to me that is what contracts are for.
Beyond this, I don't know.
http://www.colorofchange.org/swim/?id=1874-14...
PS The statement about "changing the complexion of the pool," is a bit odd, no??
So far we have racist comments on top of possible witnesses to a crime, if the witnesses are right.
Next we get a rediculous cover-up story about safety rules... that's as good as admitting guilt of racism right there. the facts simply do not back that up.
like a good ole Bush-Rove spin narrative, huh?
We bought our house in 1993 in a diverse neighborhood in East Lansing. One of the primary attractions was the elementary school - a top public elementary school, which was also a majority non-white school. It was also in the shadow of MSU, and a gret number of the kids were children of graduate students, sothat may have had a lot to do with its educational excellence. We were thrilled that our three kids got to experience that level of diversity, and made close friends who came from all corners of the globe. I wouldn't have traded it for the "best" prep school in the country - after all, that's where we got George W.
I work at a college that has a gym and pool that are available to employees for free and I use them almost every day. In the summer, the college contracts with various youth groups, of all races, to use the facilities. During that time, it is almost impossible for employees and the few summer students on campus to swim or work out because the pool is full and the locker rooms are always an inch deep in water and full of kids. I end up changing clothes in my office rather than at the gym. Now, since this is a free benefit and I know the college can use the money that they get from the groups, and it is a community service, I don't really complain. But, if this was a private facility that I was paying membership dues to, I would be raising hell. It has nothing to do with race, it would simply be an issue of "I paid for a pool and gym that I can use and I'm not getting what I paid for."
Ya, i see your point. that's why it's important to point out that there are racism charges coming from the people involved in this incident, and to focus on that point for discussion.
The problem I have is the knee-jerk acceptance of the racism charges coming from the kids. I've worked with kids for many years and a fair number of them are drama queens...they love to be the center of attention. Once again, this has nothing to do with race, I've seen upper class white teens make up ridiculous charges against campus police officers, with one group actually going on a local radio station to make statements that were later proved false.. Sure, the situation should be investigated, but as far as a lot of people are concerned, the people at the pool have been tried and convicted.
Ok ya, no assumptions either way for now. I presume the authorities will also consider a hoax. However, i understand some adults may be witness as well.
complexion. Was this a Freudian Slip? If it wasn't, then what was it? Did you make the assumption that these children were allowed to swim for free? I am just asking. No trial or conviction.
You know, if I was guilty and looking for a way to explain away my racist action, the absolute LAST terminology I would use would be to refer to the complexion of the pool. I'd be willing to call it a draw on the poor choice of words - it could be just that.
knee-jerk denial of racism charges instead of a real examination of the facts or statements involved, as well as steering the discussion away from the actual event and associated facts. that makes the denial easier and all the more heinous.
x
condoning racist hypocrisy, are we?
for this very honest and thoughtful post.
The question of whether or not to put up with the racist comments of other whites,friends or even family so as to not rock the boat is a valid moral dilemma that we all deal with from time to time.
Unfortunately,I too have not always risen to the occasion.
However I was married to a Lady for almost 20 years who I'm proud to say put the "L" in Liberal.She wouldn't put up with anything approaching a bigoted remark no matter WHO said it-even when I personally (at times)wished she had stayed out of it.In retrospect however I'm pretty danged proud of her.
So is this a case of racism or not? Based on the testimony on the MSM i say yes, it looks like it is racism.
It has happened before, although it is still shocking and disturbing to see it in this century.
right jimn0?
the claim of racism has been made. now all they have to do is act indinant and stand their ground.
maybe you could separate your rump from the couch and get some unemployed guy, like jesse jackson (unemployed for over 20 years with no visible means of support) to go down there and stir things up. that will help.
oh, and no surprise, al sparpton is also available. he represents......the michael jackson fans, apparently.
they could all go down there and dance and scream and grab their crotch and smash in car window with a sledgehammer in honor of the greatest entertainer that ever lived. or something.
No doubt, that's exactly what is planned. mmHmm. No doubt. Such a clever lad.
so i assume that you are off for the summer.
i personally cannot wait for pay for performance standards to come through. it is the number one priority of the obama administration as far as education is concerned. and rightfully so.
i asked a personnel supervisor for the kansas city school district how many people were fired for non performance of their job. he looked at me funny and the answer was, of course, none. never. they are unionized and cannot be fired. out of the thousands of teachers and teacher aides, not a one of them needed to improve upon their work. what a laugh.
have fun competing in the private sector. you will be eaten alive. i fire people weekly for non performance. its called "competition". you might want to look it up.
and is a Canadian National. So your wishes for him to crash and burn in the American system are not only mean-spirited and an indication of what an asshole you are, it also speaks to your inability to pick up on what other posters post quite regularly on this site. In short, you are not much of a researcher, are you?
Rrrrr. I love it when you roar!!!
isn't it?
:P
could well use you, Edwin, judging by the 'non-performance' of our 'indinant' friend here, who seems to really dislike 'al sparpton' (whoever the hell he is) - both in his lack of critical thought and grammatical capabilities.
Think you could live up to the 'competition', though...?
i kinda doubt it. as a group, teachers are pretty soft.
According to the U.S. National Center for Education Statistics: In 2007, the latest year for which comprehensive data were available, a nationwide survey, conducted biennially by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) and involving representative samples of U.S. high school students, found that 5.9% of students carried a weapon (e.g. gun, knife, etc.) on school property during the 30 days antedating the survey. The rate was three times higher among males than among females. In the 12 months antedating the survey, 7.8% of high school students reported having been threatened or injured with a weapon on school property at least once, with the prevalence rate among males twice that as among females. In the 12 months antedating the survey, 12.4% of students had been in a physical fight on school property at least once. The rate among males was twice the rate found among females. In the 30 days antedating the survey, 5.5% of students reported that because they did not feel safe, they did not go to school on at least one day. The rates for males and females were approximately equal.
The most recent U.S. data on violent crime in which teachers were targeted indicate that 7 percent (10 percent in urban schools) of teachers in 2003 were subject to threats of injury by students. Five percent of teachers in urban schools were physically attacked, with smaller percentages in suburban and rural schools. Other members of school staffs are also at risk for violent attack, with school bus drivers being particularly vulnerable.
Yeah, right. Teaching is a veritable cakewalk. What planet are you from again...?
it is a cakewalk. where else do you get to work seasonally and get paid year round? where else can you never be fired for non performance per your union contract? where else is your benefits package equal to other similarly educated workers gross pay? never have to work weekends? do you get 2 weeks off for christmas? i dont.
i manage more people than i can keep track of and if any of them said that they were going to take the summer off and they demanded 2 weeks off for xmas i would just send them their last check.
I rather doubt you'd last two months as a teacher, Jimmy. All too many teachers pull many hours of work well beyond their duty hours that they're paid for, grading student work, writing course syllabi. attending meetings, etc. I'm paid, as a university tutor, x amount per student per portfolio work, to a MAXIMUM, regardless of however long it really takes me, which sometimes is a lot longer than it says on the tin. My kid is a uni professor in California, and believe me, the burden on her is incredible - she could only come to visit me over Christmas one year if she brought all her student papers to mark, which took up most of our holidays.
Most of my friends work jobs where they have the weekends off, and at least two weeks over Christmas.
And if you manage more people than you 'can keep track of', I humbly suggest that you're not a very good manager - it's your JOB to keep track of your employees, and if you can't do that, you shouldn't be a manager.
So frankly, if you can't hack it as a manager of adults, I seriously doubt you'd last long trying to tackle a classroom of eleven year olds.
dear overpaid and underworked, i worked for 2 years as a professional instructor. i trained army troops in the proper handling and working of improvised munitions and high explosives. i had the pleasure of training some of the dumbest people in the world how to not kill themselves.
if i made a mistake, or if my trainees made a mistake, people died. potentially hundreds of them. apparently i have a talent for training people in very delicate and important tasks. [Deleted. Abusive-Sitemonitor]
i now work as a production supervisor for a major airplane parts manufacturer. and i DO supervise more people than i know of. and if i make a mistake, airplanes fall out of the sky.
[Deleted. Abusive-Sitemonitor]
all that being said, i must admit that i would not be very good with a classroom of 11 year olds. not at all.
... and planes DO fall out of the sky, like Air France flight 447, due it is suspected to instrument error and computer malfunction similar to several other accidents on Airbuses, like the one in Australia not so long ago which thankfully didn't crash but injured several people on board, including paralysing a woman. Pitot instrumentation has been a big controversy for some time, but it hasn't been 'economical' for airlines to upgrade or replace them. And it took the French airline pilot's union to threaten a boycott on Boeing jets to get the company to replace faulty equipment they'd been complaining about for a long time.
In my job, I may not crash any planes. But any student of mine who comes out the other end of his education incapable of reading or understanding instructions in a maintenance manual is just as deadly as the one who is too tired or pressed for time to properly check for fatigue cracks in aging aircraft structures, just for example.
If you follow the aviation industry with any regularity (which I do for private reasons), you'd know a lot of this is caused by overworked and underpaid employees squeezed by both a worsening economy and an airline industry in crisis. For which you have my support and sympathy - despite your bloody arrogance and pig ignorance. And someone who regards their job as 'more important' than mine obviously has no clue to what my job entails, nor any interest in learning, either. NOT a good attitude to carry into any profession, especially not the aviation industry.
in one of my crews and I guaran-flipping-tee we weren't involved in any flipping cakewalks. And I did it for 37 years, not two
Jimmy, the longer ya go, the more incoherent you become. You're verging on a foot stamping whiny little tantrum and really, you're just making yourself look bad with the callouts and name calling.
I realize that you think you're being clever with the mom's basement bullshit and all but all you're doing is proving that you don't have any real points to offer.
Any point you even might have had went out the window the minute you resorted to nasty little personal attacks and proved yourself to be just another troll, obviously more ignorant than the really GOOD trolls but a troll just the same.
Yup, that's what we do, stand around and talk.
So now you think you'll slam another ethnic group, because you're just a dumb fuck? Clever.
And as you're going beyond ridiculous, I'm done with you. You're dismissed.
[edit: ding ding ding, clean up, aisle 4.]
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x
i never tried to get a teaching certification. i have more than enough education.
but i was never a school employee. i had more ambition than that. to me, teaching seems like a dead end job. no room for advancement unless you want to get your ME or Phd and then you get to be a principal. not much of a prize if you ask me.
what prize DID ya get, Jimbo?
And you got to be a miserable SOB that probably bums out everyone in your path. "Oh here comes that whiner Jimmy again. Run for cover. He's such a downer." Lucky you. Enjoy your life.
dont get me wrong, i do. i have to ride herd on about 150 machinists at my job and we live and die by quality control. my 2 predecessors in this job turned into raging alcoholics and had to be let go.
we have a timeshare in cabo and a prefab shack in puerto rico. my kids are all in high school and my daughter is getting a volleyball scholarship to the same college i went to. my oldest son has had two tryouts for AA professional baseball. we are not so hot on that one.
i am getting ready to purchase a sea kayak for our puerto rico place.
all in all, life is pretty good.
But you're miserable. So who won?
Pool boy to billionaire? You and your self-righteous and arrogant personality really impress us. NOT...
I bet I have done far more in my life that was far more dangerous than you have done jimmy and I don't have to go around bragging and shoving that in everyone's faces, including yours. Is this topic all about you? You sure seem to think it does....
You don't have a clue what anyone in here has accomplished in their lives or what they have been through yet you seem to think that you are better and have done more than everyone else in here. Only in your mind jimmy, only in your mind...
Pullin' a Palin.
Misunderstood Jimmy, literally home and up to his eyeballs in shit today because he's angry his septic backed up, and the city is trying to "con him". He pays more taxes than we earn.
Why do we attack him so? We're big meanies here. He's the victim.
So, why don't you quit and run away, like Palin did??
Run from your boogymen. You don't seem to cope well. I think you're going to end up like the two guys before you that quit.
Judging by the deteriorating calibre of your posts, you may be on that route now.
Is it morning in your neighborhood? Good to see you post again.
nor do i have to be. he volunteered the information. i work for a living and do not read websites all day. i have a business to run and a family.
and teachers are overpaid like nobody else in this society. the benefits package for a teacher with a family of 4 in the KC school district would cost $1800 a month on the open market. but you cant count it as pay, they say.
Really? You've been here an awfully long time today, for such a busy busy guy.
i am having septic work done. had a major basement leak. totally screwed up the downstairs family room. stuck at home.
is ours as well.
Same thing happened to my wingnut brother. pretty nasty and expensive. Too bad.
when the numbers got to 15k, i stopped reading them. we have been forced to move out of your home.
we are trying to get this done before the city gets involved. they would love to force us to tie into the city sewer. that alone would be another 20k.
Based on your posts, I'd say you should move into the sewer. You'd be amongst your peers.
We understand now.
One word:
A-Rod.
The people who complain about what teachers get paid think nothing of paying to attend some pro sporting event to see a bunch of prima donnas, whom are grossly overpaid, play ball for a few hours. I'd like to see a sports star do my job of teaching special needs students for a week and see how successful they are. I won't make in my entire 30 year career, what a pro ball player makes in a few games. And the sports stadiums/arenas that these guys play in are usually built using a sin tax, or the cities have given the owner some sort of tax abatement to keep the team from moving. Well guess who gets screwed out of tax dollars? Public schools! No one gives a damn about public schools. They just want to dismantle public education and bash teachers. No wonder college students don't want to go into teaching. OK, I'll get off my soap box now.
You stay up there. Everyone thinks because they sat in a classroom once they know all about teaching.
Most people could not handle the job and/or they would be lousy teachers. It's not just about disseminating information, you have rooms full of kids that are growing up, with everything (non-educational) that entails.
My son wants to teach, so don't lose faith in the young. I think it's what's in your heart that makes what you do special. So many people, a classroom at a time, will benefit from what you have made yourself as a person. Good on you. Kudos, too!
How can one be "overpaid like nobody in this society"? How much does nobody get paid? If there's nobody to get paid they get nothing. That means teachers are paid above nothing.
Wow. What a nice thought.
Oh jeez. Don't fry your circuits. It's just a story at a blog.
Actually, least year I was asked if I wanted a raise and I said, "I don't care, I'm not about money, I like my job." They gave me the raise anyway because as they said, "they wanted to keep me on staff," and they were delighted with my work.
(I work overseas. And you know nothing about me.)
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you! and likely, he lives better. jealous?
I wonder if the group considered a place like this...
[ http://www.clementonpark.com/directions08.html ]
Roughly 20 mi. out of Philadelphia. I know... $$$, but who knows?
"FROM PHILADELPHIA Take the Walt Whitman Bridge to 42 South (North-South Freeway). Exit Freeway at Blackwood-Pine Hill-Clementon Exit #8, taking Rte. 534 East. Continue on Rte. 534 East toward Clementon. Entrance to Clementon Park & Splash World is ahead 4 miles on right."
Regarding the story, the truth hurts quite often... especially when your afraid to face it. I can't conclusively place the blame or learn what the truth is; without all the facts. The story seems to have a multifaceted dilemma, in the scope of things? Sometimes, shame works... sometimes it don't.
We cannot solve our challenges by ignoring the facts... communication is crucial. Sometimes ya can solve things and sometimes ya can't. Thanks Susie
Since when does SUPERVISED kindergardeners to 7th graders put fear into someone?!!! LOL, this is the biggest pile of tripe I've ever read. If you can't discern racism, then perhaps PA is beyond help.
Since the first lawyer filed a suit against a pool where a kid drowned. The members of that club are probably owners of that pool, which means they'd be liable.
65 kids in a club-sized pool is packing it too densely. Especially when you've got the majority of them in the shallow end. There doesn't need to be much exuberant horseplay for a kid to get held under a little too long.
I've seen it. I swam at city pools all the time when I was a kid- quit after I got my Junior Lifesaving card- and I couldn't stand swimming in the summers at the park pools because the lifeguards were always having to clear the pool for safety's sake. Those of us who liked to actually swim, black and white, made the quieter indoor pool at the high school our destination.
Then they shouldn't have signed all of those contracts with those day camps if they couldn't handle it.
But I'd like to know how many kids the manager thought would be present. The manager isn't saying much in the few statements he made.
COMPLEXION!
Why not schedule them for another day and sort out the overall schedule?
but a very convenient thing to inject into the discussion to deflect from the OBVIOUS RACISM.
denial doesn't look good on you.
No one said the kids were horseplaying, and the pool is apparently quite large, but if it was too crowded they could divide the group in half and take turns.
Kudos, Suzie.
I was once in a restaurant, standing by the front door waiting for someone to come to seat my husband and me for dinner. It took awhile, but finally, I spotted a man come out from behind the kitchen and approach me. I smiled and asked if he had a table for two, please?
He immediately scowled, told me in no uncertain terms that he was a customer, not a waiter, and I shouldn't have assumed he worked in the restaurant just because he was black. He sat down with his (strangely enough, white) wife and scowled at me and my husband the rest of our meal, after someone who actually DID work there sat us at a table not too distant. It upset me. Greatly.
To the point where I couldn't sit still anymore, got up, and rather angrily told this person that I hadn't assumed he worked there because he was black, but because I'd seen him come out from behind the kitchen. I hadn't realized he was simply coming back from the toilet, but his accusing me of being racist was untrue and deeply insulting.
To his credit, he saw my point, HE apologised to ME and invited us to sit with him and his wife for a coffee. We did, and we all left in good spirits.
It's all too easy to chalk it all up to latent racism as well as overt racism, without bothering to examine other factors. I don't know if this was latent racism or just an unfortunate choice of words. I'll wait and see how it turns out before I jump on the bandwagon and accuse anyone of racism, though. But then, I'm just another one of those well-meaning enlightened white liberals.
I would have been upset too.
You screwed up your courage and indignation and did the right thing,for which the person in question showed you his respect.
How much racial tension can be chalked up to simple silly misunderstandings?
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