Ping Pong! Dems to Sidestep Formal Conference Committee on Health-Care Bill
First of all, this isn't all that unusual - the Republicans used this exact same procedure more times than I can count during the Bush administration - and no, they didn't allow Democrats to take part. (I guess it's just that Selective Media Amnesia that sets in whenever the Democrats are in control.)
But using the tactic known as "ping ponging" is going to minimize formal input from the liberal House side, and for that, Reid is going to have to cough up some kind of significant concession.
And just to make things interesting, C-SPAN is asking Congress to open the meetings to live coverage - something I'd love to see:
WASHINGTON - House and Senate Democrats intend to bypass traditional procedures when they negotiate a final compromise on health care legislation, officials said Monday, a move that will exclude Republican lawmakers and reduce their ability to delay or force politically troubling votes in both houses.
The unofficial timetable calls for final passage of the measure to remake the nation's health care system by the time President Barack Obama delivers his State of the Union address, probably in early February.
Democratic aides said the final compromise talks would essentially be a three-way negotiation involving top Democrats in the House and Senate and the White House, a structure that gives unusual latitude to Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid of Nevada and Speaker Nancy Pelosi of California.
These officials said there are no plans to appoint a formal House-Senate conference committee, the method Congress most often uses to reconcile differing bills. Under that customary format, a committee chairman is appointed to preside, and other senior lawmakers from both parties and houses participate in typically perfunctory public meetings while the meaningful negotiations occur behind closed doors.
In this case, the plan is to skip the formal meetings, reach an agreement, then have the two houses vote as quickly as possible. A 60-vote Senate majority would be required in advance of final passage.
"I look forward to working with members of the House, the Senate and President Obama to reconcile our bills and send the final legislation to the president's desk as soon as possible," Pelosi said late last year as the Senate approved its version of the legislation.
"..the Republicans used this exact same procedure more times than I can count during the Bush administration - and no, they didn't allow Democrats to take part."
Get ready for the "how dare the Democrats do this!! It's unAmerican!" onslaught on rightwing radio and tv.
it's about time the gop was
made to eat it. they crapped
on the dems for years.....
hopefully this karma will be
served COLD !!!
the Bush years and clinton as well!
They beat the slimey ass republicans into the ground.
They should have no imput into anything. Look at the mess they have caused and tell me they deserve the chance to make things worse?
is anyone surprised?
Lucy is holding out the football again to gain progressive support.
I'm sure that Howard "Charlie Brown" Dean will take another futile kick at it.
Vote GOP and move forward to the 18th Century.
.
... it's kind of like a reverse menage a trois: they get to #$%& everybody else.
Corruption favors the wealthy.
As if the words 'Harry Reid' and 'concession' have EVER led to anything worthwhile.
Progressives are gonna get borked, and the American public is going to get another weak-kneed, watered-down piece of shit.
What else can you do? If they don't come up with something that REALLY benefits the middle class they are screwed. They won't be able to blame the republicans after this.
On another note, I don't agree with anything that strengthens the private insurance industry, so you'll probably still read my complaints.
Apologies in advance.
And it will be built upon as long as progressives don't behave like children and take their ball and go home.
I understand the frustration, but I am not ready to concede to the tea-baggers. If you think things could not be worse, you are sadly mistaken.
As long as progressives don't behave like children…?
Really!
All of the advanced nations have universal health programs. None allow for-profit health insurance.
Even the house bill is a Corporate giveaway.
statusquObama, change you can only pretend in
... get us to universal health?
how has supporting dems gotten us to true health reform?
this is the game dems have played with progressives for decades. and i think more and more people are waking up to the fact that the only power we, as voters, have is to withhold votes from dems. we can't compete economically with the dems' corporate pay masters. but we sure can keep dems from getting elected of they continue to legislate on behalf of corporate interests. the GOP will surely gain in the short term, that is a sacrifice. but, until the dem power structure learns that progressives are not captive sheep we will get continued neoliberal governance, as we slip further into the third world economic stature.
Not true.
I believe Switzerland, Germany, and the UK allow additional insurance coverage above and beyond the national plan. I could be wrong, but this seems like a good compromise for us too. We wouldn't kill the insurance industry, just make them mostly irrelevant - and make them sell a product people want instead of one they need.
They allow private plans that go beyond the public universal plan.
We are not even close to that here. The pseudo universal plan, not universal to start, is based on for-profit insurance.
That is the issue.
That was not on the table, with the Democrats.
statusquObama, change you can only pretend in
I don't disagree with that.
Universal coverage is the only thing that makes sense. I'm thinking that we'll start one in Oregon. In Canada, the national plan came about after each province came up with one.
Of course, the biggest obstacle will be determining what to do with the red state leaches sneaking in for health care they refuse to pay for.
And we'll see what stresses this puts on the middle class upon it's passage.
Strenghtening an industry that already controls most of our Senate and Congress does not seem to me to be the way to go. Want change in the future - as I've been told over and over - it's only going to be harder.
Of course that's just my opinion.
(say the insurance companies)
"as long as progressives don't behave like children"
We're not behaving like children, Reid, the MSM, the Blue Dogs, and THIS ADMINISTRATION are treating us like children in deference to the GOP and conservative Dems.
Nice job running with that line of reasoning, though.
I think many Americans will find things can be worse - when they are forced to pay premiums that they can't afford to private health insurance companies or face fines and/or jail time.
It's the American corpora-fascist way. Always reminds me of a lyric from "Man of LaMancha" :
"Whether the stone hits the pitcher, or the pitcher hits the stone;
it's the pitcher that will suffer."
"Egotism is the anesthetic that dulls the pain of Stupidity" - Frank Leahy
.....sounds like a perfect way to start the New Year.
When we want any shit out of them, we'll squeeze their heads.
It will be completely Corporate friendly you can rest assured.
The fix has long been in, now the great bamboozle will begin.
Who needs Republicans when you have so many Corporate Democrats.
statusquObama, change you can only pretend in
Is we get nothing with the Repubs who do not even give the illusion of caring about working folks. If you truly believe progressives are not better off with corporate Dems than Repubs, then you are more cynical than politically astute.
I've become cynical simply because I am politically astute. Idealists usually get left on the wayside.
....attention. My issue is with those that are using their cynicism to say there is no difference or saying there is no point in voting the mid-terms.
I am plenty cynical, but I will continue to support Dems over Repubs and will continue to vote.
.
... is still a shit sandwich. Don't tell me I'm better off eating at Harry & Nancy's Diner instead of DeLay's Gourmet Pig Trough.
whether you realize it or not.
I just got the new rules for credit card companies to operate by and I will guarantee you they are far better than ahything you would get from Repubs. That is only one example.
that is an assumption, not an example, considering that the dems get more money from wall st than the GOP.
Right now that is with the Dems, but 8 years ago it was the Repubs.
They don't care about ideology, they care about ROI (return on investment.
the dems have come thru time and time again--corporate ROI knows a good investment when they see one.
ROIds?
Diabolus est Deus Inversus
What the law does and does not do, Consumer Reports here
The big thing that it doesn't do is outlaw usury.
They can charge anything they want.
statusquObama, change you can only pretend in
They can't do it on a whim as they have in the past. Just being late on a payment does not allow them to raise rates as long as you don't miss payments.
... I feel so much better knowing I'm being assfucked by the banks LESS.
Please, Sir, may I have another?
A shit sandwich ... Tue, 01/05/2010 - 10:34 — Shadowgm
____________________________________________________________________
http://midwestrocklobster.com/100107/shitonas...
Diabolus est Deus Inversus
Hope you can get those at the golden arches.
Hate to say, but $%&*-on-a-shingle was my favorite breakfast in the Army. Kinda miss it.
Corruption favors the wealthy.
I think I only had it once in the Air Force.
It's kind of like dolmas; you have to get past the look of it first.
And I loooovvee dolmas.
Diabolus est Deus Inversus
You are right that the Republicans do not mince their words, the Democrats do.
If that is enough of a difference for you to feel that you are being represented, go with it.
Between 62% and 80% of the population of the country are working class. I don't judge this by income but rather by the power to determine the nature of one's own work.
These are the people in the last thirty years who have hard pressed.
1% of the population is the Capitalist class, they are the ruling class. They have their trans-national corporations as legal shields which protects them from the responsibility of their own personal actions.
These are the people who control the government. The remainder of the population is the middle class. Doctors, Lawyers, middle managers, maybe small business owners, some side with the working class, others always side with the ruling class.
The Corporate Democrats are acting in the Neoliberal mold which transfers control of the public space to these most powerful private interests in exchange for their campaign contributions.
It is a CORRUPTION of the highest order.
That is my political astuteness come cynicism for you.
statusquObama, change you can only pretend in
We'll all be sooooo much better off.
The tea baggers are a media creation of corporate interests.
There are two main components, the Corporate front person and the bamboozled working class person.
I have zero sympathy for the Corporate plant and significant sympathy for the bamboozled working person.
When the working class coalesce to understand who their true enemy is, the dynamics will change.
statusquObama, change you can only pretend in
....much political power and I would love to see workers united in a Socialist movement, but I just do not see that happening in the near future. Soooo we basically have two choices that may indeed be between bad and worse, but until there is a viable third option, I will stick with bad and work for progressive change.
So you are OK with the lesser of two evils, for the time being.
I understand that position.
However, you should know that when they know:
when they know you are going to stick with them no matter what, they will take you completely for granted.
Why would they bother with your concerns in such a case. That, in my estimation, is the error of the lesser of two evils approach.
It does not take great political astuteness, only a basic understanding of human nature.
statusquObama, change you can only pretend in
The most famous Cynic was Diogenes, although the school of philosphy was founded by Antisthenes and they ridiculed dogmatic thought and useless theories.
They were more practical day-to-day philsophy, and sought no ultimate solution to anything. But now days people who have their own social "solutions" are often called Cynics, when that would be a contradiction in terms.
Diabolus est Deus Inversus
Cynics were also advocates of a "natural" life style making them precursors to both the Stoics and Euell Gibbons.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_XJMIu18I8Y
Diabolus est Deus Inversus
... it was suggested on Air America that the problem is not corporate money funneled to politicians, per se (I think it's still a BIG problem), but that Congress doesn't have the same conflict-of-interest requirements that corporations do.
Do you think that this would make a difference? Or is it a case of stealing lollipops vs. mass murder, they're all still criminals?
I didn't hear the show. But, I'd be curious to know exactly what conflict of interest laws are on the books that keep corporations from doing whatever the hell they want?
If there are some, they certainly aren't enforced.
... for example, I'm not allowed to accept gifts (including meals) over a set value, and must disclose any family/personal relationship I have with a vendor/client (potential or actual).
The Congress has a limit before which previous members cannot go to work for the Corporations.
The practice is that there is a revolving door.
Members of Congress leave and go to work lobbying for the corporations they previously oversaw.
Corporations are required by law to maximize their bottom lines. They have no public interest.
statusquObama, change you can only pretend in
and we gotta fly naked.
everything is all backward!
audit-prosecute-incarcerate
As opposed to flying behind closed doors and Congress meeting naked?
Vote GOP and move forward to the 18th Century.
Where's the brain bleach?
Vitter naked. Bachmann naked. McCain naked. Lieberman naked ...
do fly behind closed doors, it's safer and more efficient. And having the Senate meet naked while visually disgusting might make them a bit more humble.
Be as you wish to seem
Could also reduce the sheer quantity of posturing, pontificating, and proselytizing.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R6dm9rN6oTs
Diabolus est Deus Inversus
Let's try to keep the Senate clothed AND behind closed doors! CSPAN coverage should be enough.
Ping pong is a sissy game:
http://www.rubyredd.net/enforcer.JPG
Diabolus est Deus Inversus
OUR government is not operating in the best interests of the citizens of this country....whether thru incompetence, criminality, or some larger agenda....this should be obvious to anyone that gives a damn.....large demonstrations (petitioning the government)...is our right....and imo, our duty.......expressing our will upon the fat ass bastards, when their actions contradict our best interests.....has historically had an impact beyond just bitching, sending emails, writing letters, etc.....witness 'nam
and Raging Granny's are the only people fit enough to get out and protest well then we're in serious trouble.
...for including Republicans. Since the point of the conference is to finalize legislation and the GOP has made it clear that their only goals are to either kill the bill or delay it until the Sun burns out, what could they possibly offer? There are significant elements in the Senate bill representing GOP thinking, so what would the GOP want to do now -- remove those elements?
I assume the White House wants this to be a reconciliation between what Obama wants and what the Senate delivered. That ought to take about five seconds to hammer out. Obama's not interested in the House bill or any compromises that would risk the support of Senate drama queens like Nelson and Lieberdouche.
with each other. We'll get the short end of the stick AGAIN.
people who want the poor and disadvantaged to have health insurance but on the condition that they don't have to make any more sacrifices.
You know how do we pull this off without upsetting the middle class base.
... THEY (the poor, the illegal immigrants, the terrorists) are hell-bent on taking things away from US (the hard-working, taxpaying, patriotic American).
how do we pull this off without upsetting the middle class base. And without inconveniencing the Rich and Well to do.
Makes you wonder if they aren't thinking . . if we can lump everyone from the upper middle class on down to the bottom into one "Class" of peoples (unemployed-temporarily employed-non permanently employed) we can pull off another Ponzi Scheme just on volume.
Even that all depends on continuing to be able to hide a gazillion dollars of sh***ty assets swept under the carpet.
Health Spending Slowed In 2008
WASHINGTON — The U.S. spent an average of $7,681 per person on health care in 2008, for an eye-popping total of $2.3 trillion – even...
________________
common sense matters as much as truth
Well I can tell you folk this; just from talking with my parents, they are unhappy with the Senate version of the bill. For now, however, they blame Joe Liebermann. That might change if the bill is not improved somehow. How that happens I do not know. I only know this, if too many people think that the Healthcare Reform bill screws them over, they might just decide to stay home in future elections.
how 'bout 70plus progressive caucus members simply sit on their hands until a real bill gets passed
Where's Waxman?
Where's Woolsey?
Where's Grayson"
Where is Howard Dean? talk about a media blackout
...
"I'm not a member of an organized Party, I'm a Democrat!" -- Will Rogers?
1952 Stevenson supporter: "Adali, you've got the thinking man's vote!"
Stevenson: "Yes, but a need A MAJORITY!"
your name's Lebowski, Lebowski... and your wife is Bunny
Not 60. The filibuster rules can be changed with a simple majority vote. The democrats are spineless and fools to think Americans won't remember this backstabbing of their base.
Republicans are liars and simply cannot be trusted.
aye aye Fish
i agree. I've said before removing finance portions of it and 51-49 radicalizing the system (knowing it will be well-received and successful) and shoving this solidly up Max Baucus' Ass is the correct move. Who invited finance to this party anyway? Read my lips: Its worth Any Cost. Passing finance under some appropriations bill will make the piddly amount we deem health care worthy of seem even more stupid next to some trillion dollar stop-gap defense bill
PUH thetic, we are...
SPIneless
your name's Lebowski, Lebowski... and your wife is Bunny
To sum it all up , assume your normal positions and bend over .
Insanity , it is what it is , there is no understanding it .
This is awesome. Now the dimbocrats can screw up the final phase of the legislation all by themselves - just like they have screwed up every other phase.
If I were a psychopath, I would join the republican party, and get in on the gravy train taking the Teabircher morons to the cleaners.
It's pretty tragic, one year into Obama's presidency, that the base of the party is so dejected and utterly disgusted over how this Democratic President and Democratic Congress have handled one of our signature issues. We'll have to push the Democrats to get their act together or they're going to lose the base and their majority.
what we really need to do is enlist and elect progressive candidates, even in safe districts.
if the Progressive Caucus had 300+ "Green Democrats" running in loud opposition to the standard-bearer in Democrat-held districts we take this Party back from the suits
whaddid they EVER do for us, anyway?
your name's Lebowski, Lebowski... and your wife is Bunny
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