Chuck Schumer to Sec. Paulson: Why $700 billion? Why not $150 billion?
By SilentPatriot Monday Sep 22, 2008 5:00pm
OK... I know asking for only $150 billion is kind of ridiculous but why should Congress commit a whopping $700 billion to the Treasury without knowing how that money will be spent? Sen. Chuck Schumer asked Secretary Paulson at today's hearing how he arrived at the $700 figure and asked for an explanation as to why Congress shouldn't give them only a fraction of that, with the rest contingent upon the situation we find ourselves in in January. Seems reasonable enough, no?
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"One of you mentioned that you will use about $50 billion dollars a month. If that's the case, and you're certainly not going to use all $700 billion immediately, and as you can see there are a lot of questions about whether this will work, we understand you've done your best and you think this will work best, but it's clear we're in uncharted waters. But what about doing this in tranches? Why couldn't you ask us for $150 billion, and on January 15th or January 20th we would come back, we would assess how this worked and grant some more money if it's really working?"
The proposed bailout is undoubtedly an intensely complex matter that's way above my pay grade, but giving Paulson a blank check for a minimum of 3/4 of a TRILLION dollars (and quite likely more) just doesn't make sense. It seems to me that the Bush administration is trying to rip off the taxpayers one last time, hoping this market "shock" can provide them enough cover to actually make it happen. Although it's far from perfect, Schumer's idea of investing a smaller amount (if any) to get us to January -- when a new President and a new Congress take office -- seems much more reasonable.
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"NOOOOOOOOOOOOOO...it must be ALLL $700 billion...all at once..in small unmarked bills...to be left in 12 black briefcases....single gusset...overlapping strap and lock...with shoulder strap. If not....everyone in the country will DIE!!!"
Senator Schumer would consider giving them anything? This is really quite criminal Chuck.
A coup costs money?
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/larisa-alexandrovna/welcome-to-the-final-s...
You're either with us, or with the economic terrorists, Chuck.
the free market is free to take it all
1 billion dollars =stacked $100 bills over 3,000 ft high
This really smells fishy and I agree, it's a flippin' rip off. Bush is trying to put us so far into debt that the next administration won't have the resources to accomplish anything.
The Bailout Will Kill the Dollar
http://www.counterpunch.org/lindorff09232008.html
I Agree. The fishiest part of the whole scheme is that bush is sooo for it. This coming from a gut who has done nothing right in almost eight years of trying has to give one pause. The whole idea of having to do this right now immediately quickly yesterday if not sooner and you can't ask questions or have any review or judicial oversight smacks of the runup to the Iwreck debacle. I smell a reat, the fix is in. They are moving to protect someone or some entity that the public would be furious about if they found out. It smacks of them having thought about how to manipualte this long and hard.
Bottom line: they have done nothing to deserve tis much trust. Schumer is right; dole it out in three month increments. Then, if things go well ther will be enough left over for the war crimes trials.
It almost sounds like there is a group of folks who are planning to buy an island somewhere and the price tag is $700B. They need the US tax payers to pony up so that they can buy their island and live happily ever after on their lobster, cracked crab and margaritas.
I am willing to admit this could be a ploy by the Bush administration to, as you say, "rip off the American people," but I'm sorry, I don't care to play politics with this issue. My damn job is possibly at stake with this economic collapse, so I want the government to do what is necessary to save my job -- period. Schumer's questions are fantastic, and I don't see why this couldn't be don't in stages, so I would be all for lowering the expected amount, unless good reasons good be given for payment in full now -- reasons I didn't just hear. However, that is a different issue from the supposed political machinations for the Bush administration. Look, the fucked up bad...but so what at this point, we have to deal with brass tax. It's like Kierkegaard once said, no reason to argument about the philosophical implications of an arrow sticking in your chest -- passing time is time closer to death!
Why isn't he answering the question? What "tools" is he talking about? Schumer needs to push him further. I can't believe that a Bush nominee is in charge of this friggin crisis. Beyond ridiculous. There are some really good videos at cspanjunkie.org on the crisis.
Hooray for Chuck -- finally someone tries to bring some "sense" into this. Congress, and more importantly, the citizenry generally who will pay for all of this, need a lot more time to let this thing sink in and consider what's best to do. What's the TV ad we're seeing so much lately (if they haven't had the good sense to pull it): "I want it all, and I want it now." That's GWB and Paulson talking.
oldtree @ 2:
To answer you, because everyone thinks there will be more damage to come... This makes the Dems look proactive, and SOMEWHAT provide some limits...
In the email I sent my rep and Senators (plus Reid - Dodd will not accept) I specifically said, why on Earth can't there be an interim package. I do not want the Bush administration deciding the nation's future anymore - especially 2 months before the election. More specifically I wrote:
"I encourage Congress to develop an interim alternative plan that is limited in scope and focused on improving debtor payments as a stop-gap measure until a more thoughtful and reasoned approach can be developed. Hopefully, a more reasoned plan can be developed under the leadership of a more reasoned administration.
Much like the rush to invade Iraq, this Bailout legislation is being rammed through Congress in a matter of days. The language of the proposal, published in the NY Times, is ambiguous, far-reaching, and devoid of clear goals. As written and representative of every decision this administration has made, the Bailout proposal is POORLY devised and planned."
We will see...
Paulson should be given the full $700 billion in unrolled pennies.
the BUSH administration is trying to influence the
election with this bailout. i don't think it's the primary
reason for the bailout but i believe they have been
trying to hide/dilute the real status of the economy all year. so not to influence the election...'help' the democrats.
are you better off than you were 5-8 yrs. ago?
Go watch MSNBC right now. Jim Cramer is screaming how this bill has to be passed. Tweety, to his credit, sees the danger in all of this.
Why not ask what requirements come with accepting the money that are burdensome and undesirable for the company but protective and beneficial for the tax payer so that not every company holding these bad assets are willing to accept the money, but only the really desperate ones?
Thats what really bothers me. The plan calls for the U.S. to buy all the bad assets without any kind of mechanism to determine if a given company actually needs the bailout to survive.
To quote the "National Treasure" movie...and this whole scheme is about our national treasure..."Someone has to go to prison".
I figure one Wall Street exec for each billion goes to Sing Sing until the money is paid back. Oh, and confiscate his assets too.
Paulson's stammering and dancing around the questions is telling. This is a scam, pure and simple. These people have operated on fear for nearly a decade. Now the looming spectre is recession. Everytime he said, "the American taxpayer is on the hook" I wanted to bust him right upside his head. I didn't make this mess and it makes me mad as hell that this jackass wants to pile it on the backs of my kid, his kids, and their kids. These people are so keen on taking assets from other folks. Maybe its time to start seizing the assets of the high-rollers who created and profited from this mess.
DID i just hear it reported that Paulson Has over 500 million dollars in Goldman Sachs Stock,no wonder they need 700 billion dollars if He needs 500 million just to cover his own ASS,Why in the Hell would We the taxpayers not revolt to this awful plan,screw Wall Street and the slugs who are running it and this country.
simply
paulson is lying to us and this is obviously
another scheme of bush/cheney to steal from
the taxpayers before they are forced out of office.
these fuckers are determined to dry hump everyone
except their reichwingneocon corporate friends.
this is a MAJOR CRIME TAKING PLACE IN SLOW MOTION
It's gonna sting. Bend over and find your bootstraps. Or we can go slow, make it a regular thing over the next decade or three. Heck, we'll make this rape a family affair.
wheeee @ 15:
Poured slowly into a pit he's standing on the bottom of.
Hank Paulson claims housing and mortgage borrowers are the causes of the banking crisis. This is unmitigated gall, and unbelievably convoluted. I guess he would also conclude gravity causes all plane crashes, and the ocean is causing polar ice to melt. Blame must once again be shifted to the masses. We are supposed to believe this mess never would have happened if those stupid mortgage borrowers hadn't gone overboard and got the poor banks in trouble. The Fed creates unlimited money, discourages any regulation, condones lax enforcement of ANY rules, and then in typical fashion blames the victims of their largesse. The reality is Paulson, and everybody else currently in front of the TV cameras cannot remotely mention the D-word - derivatives- as the REAL issue.
A 900 billion dollar bailout will be somewhere around 5-10% of the ultimate final cost of the ongoing derivatives wipeout. This isn't going to be death by a thousand paper cuts; it's death by a thousand financial nuclear bombs. Derivatives are the Hadron Collider to the economy. Finance and credit will be blown to sub-atomic particles by the time this all plays out. Paulson and Bernanke are now exposed for what they are: ineffectual mouthpieces for a corrupt cabal. Even Dorothy and Toto figured this one out discovering the man behind the curtain was a phoney.
If I hear Paulson say one more time that he CARES about the American people and has their BEST interests in mind, I will SCREAM!
Welcome to the dog and pony show! If you turned on CNBC today that's what you got. Paulson, Bernanke, and Cox, are making their cases for what and why Congress needs to vote for the RTC bailout. Weren't we told for years that these derivatives would "spread the risk" "facilitate growth" etc.? Greenspan was adamant for years that derivatives were the best thing since sliced bread and needed no regulations or oversights at all, Congress went along for the ride. So here we are.
This cake has been mixed and in the oven for years now and what the American people are now expected to eat will kill them. The system has gone so far over the edge that no plan has any chance to reverse what has been already done. They are trying to fix a $1 Quadrillion problem with $700 Billion. Not possible. This amount represents less than 1/1000th of the problem. And for what? To reflate the system and make an even bigger problem?
This problem is so large that massive deflation is now a certainty for any asset class that has been borrowed against and massive inflation [debasement] of the Dollar is a certainty because they will try as hard as they can to catch up on the liquidity side. We are but minutes, days, or weeks away from being shut off from the global credit markets. Treasury will soon have a failed auction that sets the global panic in action. The capital required by the Treasury will choke the global credit markets until foreigners decide enough is enough. The proverbial gun is pointed at the head of virtually every central bank on the planet because they all use Dollars as their reserves. If your reserves implode, so does your currency. This will no doubt end in the bankruptcy of the Treasury and destruction of the Dollar. Going forward we will have a new currency issued and a Treasury that is hamstrung for years with a 3rd world credit rating.
These are strong words but true. The Treasury is mathematically bankrupt. The Fed has already publicly declared bankruptcy for those listening carefully last week. They spent through their balance sheet of $900 Billion in a years time, and now must borrow credits from Treasury.
All roads and bad assets/loans now lead to the Treasury. So far this hurricane has flattened everything in its financial path and the Treasury is now all that is left. I can't believe we are where we are, but since 1982 our government has tried to negate mother nature and disallow any and all cleansing recessions. '87, '91, '96, and 2001 were all years where recessions would have cleansed the system. They were all aborted early and unnaturally with an early reflation of more credit. Now mother nature will get her revenge and clean the system's clock but good. As it turns out, the tin foil hat society [Austrian economics] that had logic on their side while being derided and laughed at for years has been proven correct. They warned time after time that you can't borrow your way to prosperity. The masses have been sold down the river by our politicians and financial institutions.
Looking back at how it was done is painful because it was so easy. I say easy because they told us what we wanted to hear. We heard that we were the greatest nation on earth. True. We heard that we didn't need to make products anymore and that financial products were all we needed. False. We were told that because we were the greatest nation on earth, we no longer needed to work hard, we could coast, we could borrow, and borrow, and borrow. False. This falsehood will soon cost us our Treasury, it will cost us, our children, and our grandchildren, the standard of living that our past generations worked so hard for.
Economic shock doctrine.
Think Katrina and NOL. Think privatizing as much of the US Govt. as possible as soon as possible - after all the Fed Gov is bankrupt. Right
It can't pay it's bills so it must seek to sell its assets and seek private concerns to run critical functions. It's the plan.
.......'checks and balances' cramer sorry we're asking
some questions.......fxxk
wheeee @ 15:
Actually, you may be on to something.
How about putting all the Wall Street executives and the Treasury Dept and the SEC in a pit...and then dumping $700 billion dollars in pennies on them.
SteamRanger @ 24:
Damn...you beat me to it!!!
The GOP knows they will lose the election. They have to quickly grab as much cash as they can to pay off the promises they made. I am sure their backers are pissed off they will lose the election. After the Palin debacle and the realization that McCain is dying from cancer they were livid I am sure. They want their cut NOW. They know Palin will be an ineffective leader if they do manage to steal the White House so they cant take any chances that she may be expelled from the Presidency. Man, Bush-Cheney must have balls the size of Alaska. Thankfully we have people on the hill willing to question this "bail out", these are the people actually looking out for the taxpayers and looking to the future. Let's get these True Mavericks re-elected when the time comes people.
One fucking dollar for King Henry's plan is one dollar too much until laws are put into place to re-regulate the financial businesses. Shitcan the Grammm Leach Bliley Bill and reinstate the Glass Steagall Act of 1933 or something similar.
And protections put into place for 401Ks and mortgage holders.
Bush had his hand in this from start to finish, of course there is something wrong with their request. Just look at what that man and his administration have done to this country in such an incredibly short amount of time. Look at every business that man has run into ground before he was given the keys to the oval office. Look the insane wars he can't get right....just look at him!....if it's not obvious to the naked just what a mess of man he is then I don't know what to say. I do know is this, my two beautiful granddaughters may not see the inside of a university. I'm afraid to look at the family investment portfolio. Kind of ironic that the only stocks not affected by this are Alcohol, Tobacco and food products....Drink up folks we're going to need it!
This is really scary.
I'm actually scared. I knew that the plutocrats would use this somehow to promote their agenda, but I'm scared of seeing the actual means. I'm scared that this question didn't pop up earlier, I assumed they would use all $700 billion at once. I'm scared that Paulson didn't give a satisfactory answer and tried to change the subject.
Why not $150 billion, Mr Paulson? Do you want $700 billion purely to shock the economy more? To damage social programs and raise inflation? Or to just make it a bigger pile of money and thus harder to oversee?
You, as Americans, shouldn't let this happen, as the consequences are far reaching, and I can't even imagine where the ripples will end.
"Schumer’s idea of investing a smaller amount (if any) to get us to January — when a new President and a new Congress take office — seems much more reasonable"
You forgot to add, you are a distant memory. I am guessing that without any oversight, as they are proposing, this is their last big paycheck for eight years of loyal service. But, that loyalty sure is not to the American people. It absolutely frosts my balls that everyone is letting these bastards walk clean, while the administration vultures line their pockets.
Chris K @ 11:
If your job depends on a 700 Billion dollar bailout with no oversight...you need a new job. Maybe work for a company that isn't led by complete fuck-ups and one that doesn't require a bail-out.
Don't buy into the complexity proposition.
There's nothing terriby complex about what's going on.
There are some smart, evil fucks who want some of your and your descendants' money, giving nothing in return.
Throw in a little scare-tactic mumbo-jumbo. It's simple.
I haven't always agreed with Chuck but I've definitely been impressed with him the last few days.
He can be very effective.
Don't given them a fucking thing.
OR...
...at the very least, give them the Henry Hill treatment. Bush, Paulson and the CEOs fucked up. Now this needs to be hung around their necks.
I am waiting for one public representative to tell it like it is; that beggars can't be choosers. And we will be damned if Wallstreet is going to "demand" 700 billion dollars on their own terms.
The CEO of a company getting bailed out should agree to dance in front of the national mall, during prime time, on a very special "dancing with the stars" event carried out by all the networks while wearing a pink tutu and having a grizzlie bear as a dancing partner. Plus he should make 0 dollars until the company rebounds, and should agree to only employ American-based work force... and can't fire a single person below manager status (unless for disciplinary reasons).
I take that if the situation is so dire, and the CEOs "care so much" for our welfare, that they will agree to those conditions out of the "goodness" of their hearts....
Brad @ 23:
It is already a family affair, most people seem to have forgotten that a Bush was at the epicenter of the S&L scandal in the 80s...
Bullshit.
Paulson is just a snakeoil salesmen in a pin striped suit. As he sits there stammering and stuttering about what he wants, he comes off as a guy at a car dealership with the stink of death on him, trying to sell you the lemon on the lot.
I don't care how this statement comes across: let it all come down: let it burn. F**k those sharks on wallstreet. Time for them to feel some pain for once.
Hmmm...imagine the nationalized healthcare program 3/4 of a trillion dollars would be able to get started...hmmm...
Seriously, the only reason they are pushing so hard on this bail out right now is to stem the ill will towards Bush and the republicans, to help John McCain retain some bit of relevance in this election. I know it and so does everybody else. As far as I care, let these hedge-fund motherfuckers twist in the wind. No bail out with MY taxpayer dollars.
I'm hoping that the markets crash. I would love to see all these rich people jump out of buildings. Some poor, uninsured, minimum wage worker can hose the sidewalk off afterwards.
It's the robber barons' last grab at what's left of the country's treasure. It's all part of a plan. They didn't fuck up the plan - they successfully carried it out!
Schumer asks Paulson why not (only!) $150 billion for now, and Paulson says (even though they won't be needing it all just yet) they need the commitment to "restore confidence in the market". I was waiting (hoping) for Schumer to respond with "I'm sorry Mr. Paulson, but isn't your version of 'market confidence' what got us in this shit-hole to begin with?" Puleez. The only "market confidence" I have right now is that these Wall St. weazles will suck us all dry before it's all over, and then retire in one of the McCains' houses he bought on the cheap.
This is like having a pool put in your back yard. You don't pay the contractor the full amount up front, you pay in draws. When the whole is dug, you pay so much. Then when the pool is framed out, you pay more and so forth until the product is finished and you pay the remaining amount. To do it any other way is foolish and well, super stupid.
Only a scam artist wants you to fully pay for something up front before you see what you are getting for your money. It happens a lot down here in Fla. Scam artist approach the elderly and sell them storm shutters. The scammer asks for all the money up front. The elderly homeowner gives it to him and never sees him again or the shutters they paid for.
Schumer has the right idea. Give them some of the money and if that makes a positive improvement, then give them more.
Personally the whole thing seems insane to me, but I'm not in a position to know exactly what the fu*k is going on.
Over at DailyKos, the natives are getting restless. They think this potential bailout is another FISA for Obama and the Democratic congress.
When you are on WELFARE, you don't get to demand the sum you want. You should be grateful you get anything.
Bush is using FINANCIAL TERROR, on the American people. I ask you, who are the real terrorists?
(Answer: the bu$$$$h adminsitration.)
PorridgeGun @ 38:
Henry Hill treatment? An icepick in the head? A .22 at the base of the skull? These were Henry's faves, so I hear.
American public split on Bailout
Democrats will cave. It's an election year. To the detriment of us all. God HELP the USA!
Hitler kept printing money until it was worthless, and inflation went up by the hour. The USA is about to do the same.
Paulson is a former CEO of Goldman Sachs and reportedly owns 523.5 million dollars in that company's stock!
PorridgeGun @ 47:
Oh, it may turn out that way. Except for the fact that REPUBS such as Bunning and Gingrich stand to hold the Dems who vote for a bailout accountable.
Has anyone else heard about Paulsons personal stake in this bail out and why isnt anyone questioning that,500 million is alot for him to lose,His and his buddies fortunes are at stake and Bush/Cheney cant believe they were about to leave office with 700 billion dollars still on the counter, God If the Dems back down on this and cave in to the outright extorsion then they all deserve to get kicked to the curb period.
As heard on Stephanie Miller's show this morning ~~
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PorridgeGun @ 47:
some natives don't believe obama can do anything
right. this financial problem has been brewing for a
ew yrs....more so the last couple yrs.
there will have to be compromise...we need some time
to look at this instead of it being shoved down our
throats. the regulators have not told us the truth.
I believe I heard as many pissed republicans today as democrats. Neither side is happy with this and they seem to have more in common with their complaints than they do in their differences.
It's all BS. Save the 700B to treat the symptoms - soup lines for the needy, insuring funds on limited personal savings, etc.
Let the rich hang.
I have to agree with an earlier post. This "crisis" is not difficult to understand. There are many good blog's posting about what has happened and what can happen in layman terms. I encourage everyone to spend some time reading and learning. It is our only defense. If you do not come to understand the basics, then you will not beable to make appropriate choices over the next 3 presidential elections with congressional elections.
I will say, we do have to pay some money. The issue is not so much as how much but how best to apply the money. Then we have to have a huge discussion about money, wealth how both are created and why we are doing it. What are we asking our economy to provide for us. If you answer to make money, then you have not learned enough about this current crisis, it's begining (pre Bush 2), the ideology shifts and the policy arguments and implementations that allowed it.
IOW, you are doomed to repeat history. We are now on our 3 time repeating history (4 if you count 1987) How many more times do we want to repeat the grade?
Well what do you know, Schumer might be good for something afterall.
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Schumer is Right... Contact these Committee members and tell them NO DEAL NOW!
Senate Banking Committee Contact Form:
http://banking.senate.gov/public/index.cfm?FuseAction=Contact.Form
House Committee on Financial Services Contact Form:
http://financialservices.house.gov/contact.html
Sample Letter Below:
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Regarding the proposed Bail out plan...
Committee Members,
I agree that we have to do something but this Secretary Paulson's plan is not it!
I read the provisions of Section 8 under this plan and it is appropriately located there because you'd have to be crazy to agree to give this administration a blank check while granting them no review by the congress, the courts, and placing them above the laws of the land.
That is insanity! NO! NO! NO! To grant them this would be the unforgivable sin!
Lack of oversight and deregulation is what caused this mess and I want full oversight and accountability for any such bail out deal!
Secondly, there is no guarantee that this will work and I want it to be split into smaller tranches that allow for quarterly review to see if it is working before committing to astronomical sums in a carte blanch form like what Secretary Paulson is proposing.
Thirdly, by committing the country to this huge bail out it would limit the next President’s ability to handle any other crisis. It is imperative that either it be split into quarterly segments with full review, or the Congress must come up with its own counter plan immediately.
This can not be allowed to be treated as a financial “Reichstag Fire.”
1. I want an independent group to be formed to do this much like FDR did with the RTC. I like Warren Buffet's Suggestion of Bloomberg for head of this agency.
2. I want taxpayers to receive the title of ownership to the companies that we bail out and guarantees that the tax payers will receive the benefits of later sale of these properties.
3. Assets purchased by this group should not be inflated beyond their market value. Companies should not be rewarded for bad decision making...
4. Not one penny of our tax dollars should go to the CEO and upper level staff for "golden parachute" exit packages.
5. Liquidity to the banks should be supplied by Federal Loans, not by purchasing assets at vastly inflated prices.
6. As a condition for any bail out or loans, the Glass-Steagall Act of 1933 should be reinstated.
7. Mortgage holders should be induced to renegotiate terms to keep single home owners in their homes.
8. A special loan facility should be created specifically targeted at small business owners to provide them with operating lines of credit.
This last point is vital. I know many CEO’s of small companies who have hundreds of thousands of dollars of orders but they can’t fill them because they can’t get credit lines to purchase the parts. Small business owners provide over 65% of the jobs in this country and need to be given priority over the financial institutions.
I always did think that CS was a bit too smarmy, but smarmy works when its obvious that the treasury dillrods are trying to hoodwink us.
Uppity Blue Lensman @ 59:
I couldn't agree more.
Uppity Blue Lensman @ 59:
Thank you. A voice for common sense.
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We should not be deceived, this is a Bush plan as many have pointed out, and therefore must be in error. These companies should be allowed to fall, and the credit markets should be put into shock treatment. We the taxpayers are not responsible for this mess, and therefore should not correct the problem. Recession is a good thing, people look at it in a negative light, but it corrects the bubble created by the gas of greedy and corrupt entities. We in America have been living in an illusion of gradeuer that was sure to recede to show the truth. Here we are. Those responsible and committed to these errors are still trying hard to hide the real issues in this mess and force through a hurried decision. Don't be deceived. If we give $700 billion dollars, I think our democracy will be gone, and the rich and powerful will truly have power over our country. The will defund our military to build up theirs. They will put us all in the poor house so we are too weak to fight them. Contact your representatives and demand a thorough investigation before any money is committed to this plan. God bless!
"I don't like answering to the American taxpayer." - Paulson
That about sums it up.
I was listening to NPR on the way into work this a.m. Whoever they were interviewing was saying something the effect that Government Bureaucrats wouldn't be smart enough to manage the bailout. People already involved in the financial markets were the only ones knowledgeable enough to do it. That would mean more Bush appointees...and we all know how good he is at naming qualified people. Maybe 'Heck of a Job Brownie' is available again.
there must be an increase adjustment coming up on
ARM type mortgages.
Talk about a bullshit story.
Tyler Durden @ 40:
The Bush Family -- Bank Robbers and War Criminals.
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Great Article! a new blog giving deeper meaning into the $700 billion bailout or rescure plan. http://got700billion.blogspot.com/
Trittydi @ 65:
Agreed. No one considered this a crisis when it was just average Americans losing their homes and falling into bankruptcies. They only care now that it's hit them. We've been suffering through this for a long time now. Let's welcome the top 10% percent to our America.
Hey folks,
if 1 + 1 = 2
is good enough for ordinary Americans,
it's good enough for Wall Street.
Just that fucking simple.
Stupid Git @ 67:
Fuk yoo too Paulson.
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Investigations. Thorough investigations. Where are they?
Let's find out who the crooks are! Now!
If this crap passes, surprise the Rep's and Dem's come this November and vote for whomerver the Consitutional candidate is and send a clear message to D.C. that the time for Bullshit is over! As the ad on this page says. The Constitution according to Bush is just a piece of paper.
Does anyone remember the movie changing places with Eddie Murphy and Dan Akroyd at the end of that movie the Wall Street Barons end up on skid row Well thats a picture I would love to see of all these Ass Hats Sitting by a barrel burning there worthless stock certificates God what a perfect ending to the Bush Years
Trittydi @ 74:
He follows that up by saying:
"The American taxpayer is already on the hook."
Yup, they baited us. Now we're on a hook and they're just reeling us in.
pissed off patricia @ 58:
Hence FISA. On C-Span, Republicans, Democrats and Independents phoned in to say they were pissed, mostly at the Dems for caving. Obama took the hit in the polls, McCain got a pass. I've read comments saying McCain won't even vote on the bailout. For Obama, it seems to be a damed if you do, damed if you don't situation. Kossacks are saying he shouldn't even touch it.
Personally, I think Bush, Paulson and the CEOs should be humiliated. Any bailout should basically fuck them up the arse. The American people would love to see that.
Paulson was a big wig at Goldman Sachs AN INVESTMENT BANKER!!!!!! He is part of the problem. Read the wording in this bailout, part of it was in the NYT. This bill is giving Paulson more power than the Supreme court. These banks don't even have the right to question this bailout or even know what's in it. He is allowed to pay whomever he wants for administrative fees. Guess who's going to get paid. The CEO's. This is nothing but a sham.
These goons have already proven that they are not good stewards of the public trust. What they are given now will mysteriously evaporate before a new president (Democrat, by all the gods, please!) takes office. When the new Treasury Secretary goes to look for it, it will be gone. These criminals will stuff that money in every offshore squirrel hole they can find. It is my sincere wish that none of these people ever know a peaceful moment for the rest of their miserable lives and that all the misery they have wrought on the powerless is measured back to them tenfold.
Wasn't there a Daily Show episode about this? I remember Jon Stewart saying something about how given everything Bush has done from Iraq to Katrina there was no way he was going to go out without another major debacle...
More ram rod ,think later GOP politics. Does anyone have a reason to believe e fargin thing Bush says anymore ? Fool me 83 times ? I think this bill needs a lot of fine tuning and some safeguards and wage restraints put in place to stop the Wall Street weasals from stealing all of it. See how interested they are in saving the company at 250 k a year like most well paid people ? Greed got US to this point and it will kill it too if left unchecked. Greed is the only reason America will never have single payer health care too. Too many pigs feeding at the trough. Same as War On Drugs,Military industrial complex, big pharma, big oil and many others sucking the life out of a once great nation. Id like to see USA return to that status too and im not even an American. At times i think this crap bothers me more than the average American but im Canadian and compassion is built into our national genetic makeup. That and good beer,hockey, fewer guns and good bud .. EH ?
there shouldn't even be a discussion. Hold up their silly three pages, laugh, then say NO NO NO this is the deal we have for you. Insert Dodd plan then say - and we will do it in increments. period. no like- no get. PERIOD.
these ass clowns ain't giving no guarantee that they ain't coming back for another 700 billion. give them a little and only when they've earned it.
Something is happening world wide. In India they are killing their CEOs.
Dave
Viet Vet
Hmmm?
The real question is,
which nation is best able to reform and transform itself.
I'd place my bets on the U.S. There exists a memory of the Constitution.
But the transition is going to be interesting.
And so to future generations it came to be known as...
THE GREAT TREASURY HEIST OF 2008.
I could not believe that Secretary of the Treasury Paulson actually said that he would support "oversight" (which was not what he was saying a few days ago)and then went onto say that "punitive" measures would make their strategy "ineffective". Complete and total hogwash...this guy is holding a gun to the heads of our Reps saying " open up the Treasury or else it's going to be worse later.
Paulson said it "pained him" that this bailout was falling into the laps of the American taxpayers but does not want congress to have oversight. You can not have it both ways.
Who is to say that $700B will be nearly enough?? What happens when the derivatives hit the fan? The size of that stinking pile of computer screen debt is measured in $100 trillions. That is beyond anyone's comprehension, let alone anyone set of taxpayers to bail out.
I'll take my chances on The Greater Depression now, rather that later.
I don't like to be in this position to steal from American taxpayers, but my cronies on Wall Street are lining up for free bailout $ and this is how cronyism works.
wheeee @ 15:
now that is funny
Driver @ 77:
That's what I'm talking about. One of my favourite movies, btw.
Unfortunately, in the real world, this is beginning toi look like Bush's domestic October Surprise. Apparently, this Paulson plan has been in the works for months.
VietVet8666 @ 87:
Unfortunately, VV, it is but a memory. Sad, but true.
Kathleen @ 89:
Kathleen, I believe he's holding his gun to the heads of House and Senate Dems, who are scared shitless not to do something that will screw up their grab for power this November.
Could Paulson have stuttered and stammered any more? What a bumbling thief!!! I think EVERY CEO for the past 3 - 5 years must give up every home they have purchased during the same time frame, along with every large purchase -- car, boat, jewelry, etc, and these should be auctioned on e-bay. Then they should be forced to live in a recovering disaster area, working 1 or 2 (their choice) full time jobs making no less than minimum wages nor more than $15.00 for no less than 6 months or more than 5 years, depending on how well their previous company is doing since their removal and our bail-out. And to supervise their following these directives, Paulson, Cox and Bernecke must make over-night supervisory visits every 2 weeks!!!
This guys is an idiot! I wouldn't give him the sweat off my back!
Liberal AND Proud @ 1:
And NO COPS! Or the girl dies.
..reports Mark Halperin of time.
However no one noticed that McCains first press conference in weeks was delayed, coincidentally until the end of the Senate hearing, where the entire panel of Senators expressed what improvements they wanted to see in the bailout legislation.
Yet even with his plagiarized list of improvements, McCain still couldn't answer whether he'd vote for it or not.
Yet he said he was happpy Congress was acting quickly -- this guy's drivers license should be revoked before he kills someone.
VietVet8666 @ 95:
A more apt analogy is the seen from Blazing Saddles where the black sheriff hold the gun on himself, threatening to shoot if the towns people didn't back down.
John Bird & John Fortune satirize this perfectly - and over a year ago.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mzJmTCYmo9g
mccain is trying to PLAY both sides of this 'bailout'.
does he side with BUSH does he side with the public.
mccain is waffling....BIG time. bi polar disorder
The Bush Administration is trying to write themselves a $700 billion golden parachute clause
House and Senate Dems ARE going to cave.
Gingrich is right. Any member of congress up for election this November who supported the bailout is toast.
A perfect storm.
Hail President McCain and VP Mooseburger.
davegun2 @ 86:
And in India the broken homeowners and farmers are also killing themselves in record numbers.
The good news? There's a hell of lot more peasants than CEO's!
Look we won't be buying mortgages...We'll be buying structured investment vehicles like bundled mortgage backed securities and bundled bundles of mortgage backed securities and credit default swaps (CDS).
In other words there is no there, there. Valuing this crap would be impossible (mainly cuz they have no value) unless of course Wall Street's best friend, Hank Paulsen, is there to give them value.
Friends are good. To bad we don't have any in Congress.
I love how much stuttering has been coming out of GOP mouths lately (please, take no offense those of you with speech challenges!). The amount of stuttering appears to be commensurate with how much bull hockey has been called in any given question. Schumer called his bluff and Paulson stuttered so much it hurt. Dems need to keep on hammering these guys.
upchuck @ 43:
Most of these folks have all ready shaved off their millions. Many of them are sitting in their multi million dollar homes laughing at these hearings. They know that they created an economic web through Americans retirements and pensions...knowing that the Treasury would bail them out if they were about to go down because the U.S. economy goes down with them. They knew what they were doing when they took those risks.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/naomi-klein/now-is-the-time-to-resist_b_12...
Naomi Klein rips it up
What Gingrich's wish list tells us is that the dumping of private debt into the public coffers is only stage one of the current shock. The second comes when the debt crisis currently being created by this bailout becomes the excuse to privatize social security, lower corporate taxes and cut spending on the poor. A President McCain would embrace these policies willingly. A President Obama would come under huge pressure from the think tanks and the corporate media to abandon his campaign promises and embrace austerity and "free-market stimulus."
We have seen this many times before, in this country and around the world. But here's the thing: these opportunistic tactics can only work if we let them. They work when we respond to crisis by regressing, wanting to believe in "strong leaders" - even if they are the same strong leaders who used the September 11 attacks to push through the Patriot Act and launch the illegal war in Iraq.
32 words
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/09/22/dirty-secret-of-the-bailo_n_128...
Decisions by the Secretary pursuant to the authority of this Act are non-reviewable and committed to agency discretion, and may not be reviewed by any court of law or any administrative agency.
MrBigDog2U!
Exactly!
I wouldn't give these guys a dime. Consumer confidence is just a line. There is absolutely no way to prove that, so how could they possibly arrive at 700b? I am no economist, but I smell a crook.
You must be braindead to believe anyone from the Bush administration. They are proven thieves and liars. JUST SAY NO!
VietVet8666 @ 95:
That's what worries me. A majority of people hated the FISA bill, and Obama rightfully took a hit for it. But if he voted against it, Cheney would have orchestrated a terrorist attack, linked it to FISA, which would have scared the public into voting for McCain.
Of course, if Steny Hoyer hadn't pushed it through, Obama wouldn't have had that problem.
Others have pointed this out but a reminder is always good.
Bush made his fortune off of taxpayers:
http://www.cnn.com/ALLPOLITICS/stories/1999/05/13/president.2000/jackson...
And, his history of fleecing the American taxpayer started much earlier:
"What will it be like with George Bush Jr. as president?"
VietVet8666 @ 104:
BUSH is developing a catch-22 scenario. we're up
against the wall with knife to our throats. this is what
this administration has been doing effectively since 9-11 and that's perpetual politicization...everything is political. all we can hope for is a compromise. people
don't like that word but it's reality. personally i say
fxxk it......they've known about this for months...now
they push this. what's also important is that there are
conservative republicans that don't like it either.
Fiscally responsible conservatives? If they want confidence, impeach Bush and Cheney and I'll feel like they are really fixin' shit.
Jesus, did he really say that?
oldtree @ 2:
Chucky puts on a good show. Look at his practiced gaze of disapproval.
In the end Chucky I love Michael Mukasey Schumer will cave like he always does.
VietVet8666 @ 95:
Although I did hear both Republicans and Democrats making a stand. Keep calling...Keep Pressuring NO BLANK CHECK...NO DECISION THIS WEEK!
First strategy was holding the gun to their heads over the weekend and saying " open up the Treasury now because it is only going to be worse later" Paulson is now speaking double speak saying oh I don't mind "oversight" but "PUNITVE MEASURES" will make our plans "ineffective". Basically telling them the fat cats will not play if there are restrictions.
Fuck these people
I hope Time or Newsweek prints the names, assets, and addresses of the top 20 CEO's of these private sector businesses that placed the American taxpayers retirements, pensions etc on the line. These thugs knew exactly what they were doing. Paulson is the inside banking hit man.
Paulson, and the rest of the Bush administration are trying to nail their balls to the barn floor and are demanding let us use those keys to the U.S. Treasury or the barn will burn. You choose
tyler82 @ 51:
This is the scary part - there are petitions on line. We needn't go down without a fight.
*
WR @ 114:
Yes!! Of course none of this would be being talked about if the U.S. wasn't a puppet state of israel and pissed away $1,000,000,000,000 in the last 5 1/2 yrs.
paulson looked like he was going to throw a mccain fit when Schumer questioned his need for all $700,000,000,000 up front
Trittydi @ 118:
KEEP THE PRESSURE ON. THEIR PHONES WERE BACKED UP ALL DAY....NO BLANK CHECK.
"Paulson Plan an Historic Swindle"
*
Bush/McCain will give it to you and Obama might not.
this economy has been based on debt. selling treasury
bills/borrowing from china. the war(s) have been on credit. that stupid 'stimilus check strategy' was borrowed
money. the devalued dollar has helped exports so what.
we use the borrowed money to buy china's product.
all for the shareholders.
Hey Paulson, I have a garage full of stuff I don’t want anymore and nobody else does either: wood scraps, old camping gear, a ton of baby and toddler stuff (including a Hot Wheels!) — a lot of junk. The thought of all of that just really drags me down, psychologically you know. So how about you take all that junk off my hands so I can feel better and maybe use the space for the stuff that’s cluttering up my house. Just pay me, oh, $5 million in taxpayers’ money and come haul it away. That’d be great. Thanks!
"Let me issue and control a nation's money, and I care not who writes its laws"
--- Meyer Rothschild
NO!
Ok, let you and me draw up a contract. I say that you owe me $1 billion and you say I owe you $1 billion. Now we both tell the US Treasury that neither of us can pay our debts, please bail us out. Congress then passes a law to "bail us out" and we each get $1 billion in free money from the taxpayer.
This is what it happening.
So why should be be paid in $100 million installments?
Why does this whole thing remind me of the South Sea Bubble on HGH and crystal meth?
Libertina @ 107:
The whole "calling his bluff" thing is simply political theatre. Shumer, like every other MOC is up to his ass in Wall Street donations.
Shumer Top Career Contributors
Goldman Sachs ...$458,440
Citigroup Inc ...$406,716
Morgan Stanley ...$298,946
JPMorgan Chase & Co ...$278,200
Bear Stearns ...$230,350
Merrill Lynch ...$226,150
UBS AG ...$222,000
Credit Suisse Group ...$199,044
Lehman Brothers ...$181,450
Oh, he'll get his digs in then vote for the bailout. Just watch.
Worthless.
If Not 150 Billion Then Nothing
Now, this is scaring the hell out of me. This man just gave me a "drilling line:" So goes, confidence from being able to drill offshore will bring the price of gasoline down, and now, confidence he has "BIG" bucks will make his plan work. Bullshit. With the absolute insistence on 750 billion dollars, this guy is making me nervous.
This country could be turned over with that amount of money. I say no, unless he takes the 150 billion amount. I hope Paulson does not make this a sticking point; if he does, he will loose my support totally.
Joseph
wheyghey @ 115:
Near the end of the video. Follows it up with "The American taxpayers are on the hook."
The Do Nuttin Rubber Stamp 109th GOP Congress rammed a lot of this insane crap through before 06. Hopefully the Dems can win back a super majority and play a little ram rod too to undo most of Bushes whacko insane anti American policies. If they dont ? You know the fix is truly in. I think the term "silly season " is a major understatement this time around. Gonna be a bumpy ride boys and girls.. Hang on tight.
Where is the "invisble hand" when it should be giving Paulson and his banking buddies a righteous bitch slapping? In my pocket again, that's where!
Joseph @ 129:
Joseph,
Not to put too fine a point on this but I don't think Paulson gives a rat's ass whether he has your support or not.
95% of the US Congress are Democrats all of a sudden. Funny how fast those Republican suits came off.
OMG. His last sentence is: "What we're playing with here is very important...so give us the tools to make this work."
"...playing with..."
WTF.
I thought we'd agreed we weren't going to use the stupid pay grade line anymore. Since when has there ever been a correlation between pay grade and knowledge/skill? By this standard, Paris Hilton should understand the details of the bail out, so we should ask her. ;D
(Actually, since pay grad and arrogance ARE related, she'd probably feel qualified to give an answer.)
Uppity Blue Lensman @ 133:
I know, but it sounded good at the time.
Joseph
Stupid Git @ 130:
Paulson thinks or knows that the Nations balls our nailed to the floor of the barn and he is saying here is a knife and some matches....choose
EWA @ 116:
I can't tell you how FRICKIN' SICK I am of Shumer's "practiced gaze of disapproval." His faux disapproval is worthless.
Dems like Shumer are so far removed from our reality it's criminal. Smart as he is - he's just another worthless dem when it comes to understanding the middle classes.
The ONLY savvy people in congress are the re-thug criminals - and they have the dems fast by the rings in their noses.
Why do they get everything they want? Because they have a personal stake in the outcome. THAT DOESN'T INCLUDE YOU OR ME OR ANYONE ELSE IN MIDDLE AMERICA. They fight like cornered rats for what they want - and they want it all.
Disgusting.
*
the fact that the bush crime syndicate wants this right now and that they don't want judicial oversight should raise a giant red flag. it reminds me of how they did the patriot act, the iraq invasion, and the fisa bill.
Joseph @ 129:
Joseph,
Not to put too fine a point on this but I don't think Paulson gives a rat's ass whether he has your support or not.
Kathleen @ 138:
This entire thing is sickening to me because it is simply extortion. And it turns my stomach more to see the rich flaunt their wealth (i.e. Paris Hilton, Nicole Richie and the rest of the Debuwhores) in front of our faces.
Do you know one of my happiest moments? When Paris Hilton got put in jail.
Another happy moment would be all of these CEO be put in Gitmo for the rest of their life times for some "interrogation" techniques. Someone said this before, and I agree: they are true terrorists here.
In essence, signing that bill is telling the American people to not just eat cake, but "yellow cake".
tr @ 140:
Bingo.
And what did the loyal opposition do?
Here's W. showing them just how to do it.
MAYBE i misunderstood john mccainIII who recently
said that the economy is 'fundamentally strong'. NOW
were being asked to 'bailout' wall street. SORRY
that's disconnect.
Kathleen @ 138:
exactly
This whole thing has revealed the real shadow government.
Ever wonder why more and more elected leaders seem to be seemingly likeable but intellectual lightweights driven by pure ego? Anyone with intelligence who wants real power joins these financial guys and do not run for office.
Why would someone who can control this much money and have that much power actually submit himself to an election? That's what people with desperate needs for approval do. Better to just join the real rulers of the USA.
constituent @ 146:
And the Dems rubbing our foreheads telling us they'll get us an ice cream after its all over.
There there.
We all know what would happen if the Treasury Secretary in a Democratic administration made an appeal of any kind to a Republican controlled Congress. Damn it Nancy, throw the bums out and lock the door until January!
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