Open Thread
By Nicole Belle Saturday Sep 20, 2008 10:30pm
At least some countries are getting it: (h/t Orangutan)
Finnish Fortum and the City of Stockholm have been feverishly working to design a pay-to-pump electric car infrastructure. Sweden took a baby step ahead this week when start-up company Sust (Sustainable Innovation AM) declared its intention to quickly make the country a test market for the world's electric hybrid and pure electric car manufacturers. They'll have to beat off Israel abroad.
But Sweden isn't particularly far ahead in building electric infrastructure in Scandinavia. Norway takes that prize - it has longer had THINK and Buddy electric cars tootling around the streets of Oslo and other cities, and has both built 20 and promised 400 more recharging stations. Both Sweden and Norway have a secret weapon compared to most other countries.
It's thousands of old motor-warming posts that are stationed up and down the countries' long, cold and even desolate northern highways, where you may be more likely to meet a moose than a fellow traveler. The advantage of the motor-warmer stations is that they are estimated to cost only about US$ 35 each to upgrade with the grounding and currency requirements to recharge cars. Everything else - freeway exit and entrances, especially - are already in place.
But we're talking about allowing off-shore drilling and tax subsidies to oil companies for alternative energy "exploration".
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Let's get with the program!
Hot off the press: Morgan Stanley and Goldman Sachs have gotten approval to change their status from 'investment banks' to 'bank holding companies'. This gives them access to depositor accounts and the federal reserve loan system.
I for one will pull every last cent from any bank these guys get their claws into. This has more red flags going for it than all of China.
If you watched Keith Olbermann on Friday, he had a story about Sarah Palin's witch-hunting pastor, a man whose own website talks of taking over nations. It was an odd story. Not so scary, just weird. Olbermann picked up on the witch hunter aspect of Palin’s speech, but neglected to cover the most terrifying part of this particular speech. Olbermann’s guest addresses it, but it winds up being glossed over.
What is so terrifying? Palin’s reference to Revelations, the Prophecy, Alaksa’s role in the prophecy and especially the response from the pastor. This deserves much more attention. Much, much more!
Palin (not a surrogate, not a strategist, but Palin herself) said:
Anyone familiar with evangelical dogma should recognize some of the words Palin used in her speech (highlighted in bold above).
Between End-Tmes prophecies, witch-hunting bishops who bless Palin unconditionally - without knowing her personally, only her church, to her ignorance of what this nation was and was not founded upon, along with her desire to engage in more wars, including Russia, is this the person you want a heartbeat away from becoming the President of the United States of America?
End-Times Prophecies and More: How Electing Sarah Palin Endangers Your Life
Read this post and watch the videos (there are 11 videos in all). Everyone has to realize that Palin seeks the End Times. Palin's pastors welcome Armageddon. It is all on video.
Please distribute this post far and wide. Palin is hardly the person we want to be literally a heartbeat away from becoming president of the United States of America - and that heartbeat would be one 72 year old John McCain.
Better yet, a new car that runs on compressed air:
http://environment.about.com/b/2008/02/14/new-car-runs-on-compressed-air...
Get this to the Obama people and lets get them made in U.S. towns and cities.
Palin to Bag VP Debate, for ‘Are You Smarter Than A Fifth Grader?’
http://satiricalpolitical.com/?p=3321
charge baby..... charge!
Oil companies killed the electric car way back when. We should have done something back in 1974 when we all sat in line for gas while the prices spiked.
Don Davis @ 4:
She's lose. :-)
the city i'm presently in is closing the hummer dealership
and opening the 'smart car' dealership. i was so pissed
when the #109 congress/Bush administration gave
owners of suv's that beig tax break.
Those northern countries have a bit more at stake with losing the ice caps. Too bad the US doesn't give a rats about their childrens future. Inland North America will be hit heavy by weather changes. Kiss hay, corn and wheat good-bye.
At least some leaders care.
more on sarah palin's witch hunting pastor @ skippy.
constituent @ 8:
I ordered a smart car. They are so darned cute!!!
Palin learns fast:
http://pabloonpolitics.com/refuse_to_testify.htm
I love this electric car stuff!! Gotta love the Swedes,
http://www.forbes.com/afxnewslimited/feeds/afx/2008/06/30/afx5166097.html
check it out, in Portugal: Renault and Nissan are going to be working on an eclectic car project backed the Portuguese government.
Good for them. I guess we're in the same boat up here in Canuckistan since block heater outlets are found pretty much everywhere but the warmer bits. As it stands these vehicles are principally suited to urban environments and short commutes. I would like to point out, however there is no net reduction of greenhouse gases unless the electrical source isn't powered by fossil fuels. If they are then they merely relocate the pollution source. This is only half the answer.
MsJoanne @ 11:
are they german? seem like a good match for a metro
Where's Carly?
http://pabloonpolitics.com/carly.htm
As a Christian lunatic who believes human beings are nothing but a bunch of sinners (except of course those who have been Baptised; excluding Catholics because they were not Baptised in the Holy Spirit) i look forward to the End Times and Armageddon because i know in my heart that JESUS! is waiting for me to come to him and rather than change things for the better here on earth i want to take the easy way out and have the whole damned planet go up in a ball of fire because i like to watch shit blow up REAL GOOD!
constituent @ 16:
I want a Tango.
constituent @ 16:
They are part of the Mercedes Benz brand. Made in France, I believe. Originally a part of Swatch, a joint effort between the Swiss and Germans.
I rent one whenever I go overseas (and will do so in a couple of weeks again when I return to Germany on biz).
Peter G @ 15:
That's just it, electric cars will just run off of coal and other not always green energy producers.
I've looked into moving to Canada. I love it there.
xoites defends Constitution @ 18:
Check this out x. I think you'll like it. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HvNMY0Fk580
Karen @ 19:
Actually, I am dreaming of an Alpha Romeo Mi.To, but who knows when they will arrive in the US. On their way but...
Where is the Tango made? I've never seen it before. Is it Italian? I saw some little Italian car recently but it was $37k which was way too much.
xoites defends Constitution @ 18:
People have been yammering about the end of the world since the beginning of the world. The first piss-soaked weirdo who held up a sign warning that "The End Is Nigh" wrote the words in an ancient and extinct language.
What's scary is that End Times wackos, whether they be al Qaeda terrorists or Pentecostal acolytes, are no longer mere oddities to behold. We have developed the technology to wipe ourselves out. All they have to do is acquire the weapons -- on a black market or through an election.
TSA headquarters now called the 'FREEDOM CENTER'
Do they pray each morning to the relics, we wonder !
These are the people who put a CNN journalist onto their 'no fly' list for investigating them for a CNN story.
xoites defends Constitution @ 18:
Hal eh lew ya brother! Praise the lord and pass the
amunitionNukes.Karen @ 19:
0-60...........in 4 seconds....wow..
ferrofluid (Obama + Biden = 2008) @ 25:
Oh good, add this to the death tax, clean air act and the other up is down, black is white crap from the ministry of propaganda.
Ryoko @ 2:
Depositors beware is right.
MsJoanne @ 23:
The Tango is made in Seattle, Washington. It was invented by a father/son team, who own the patent and the company that sells them.
Unfortunately, they have to hand-make each one, as they don't have an assembly line. So, each car costs close to 100 grand. They're seeking investors to help them mass produce it. Once that happens, the price can come down to about $18,000.
So far, they've been able to get reservations for cars when that happens, and have sold some individual cars to celebrities (George Clooney being the biggest name) who can afford them. But the mega-billionaires who could invest the money they need for mass production have all balked.
It's sad. It's the perfect answer for city commuters stuck in traffic alone in five-person cars. If a city or state were willing to combine a major investment in solar power with an investment in those kinds of cars, we'd see some serious change.
You guys want to hear my prediction of what will happen? Cool. I thought you would.
Fed is asking for bailout because they know there is not enough fdic insurance to cover the bank failures, it is a last ditch, desperate attempt to keep the large banks from going under. This is a huge gamble because they are choosing to spend the money on bad debt instead of shoring up the fdic.
If the recession continues, and or housing prices continue to fall, large banks will fail anyway and there will not be enough money to cover the depositers.
There.
SiteMonitor - can you please check the fishnet, my post re:Morgan and Goldman does not show up. Thank you.
When will reporters ask Palin about any of this?
http://egan.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/09/17/moo/index.html?ref=opinion
Fed Allows Goldman, Morgan Stanley to Become Banks
www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=aLqmrbJxkhVU&refer=home
Sept. 21 (Bloomberg) -- Goldman Sachs Group Inc. and Morgan Stanley will become banks regulated by the Federal Reserve, after tight credit markets forced Wall Street's two remaining independent investment banks to widen their sources of funding.
The Federal Reserve Board approved the applications of both firms to become bank holding companies, the Fed said today. Fed officials also increased the two securities firms' ability to take out direct loans from the central bank, granting access against a wider pool of collateral.
Hey I need an IV too! Wall Street is over.
For the $700 billion Fat Cat
bailoutswindle, there should be an immediate emergency progressive surtax on everyone above, say 100k per year.Progressive to say 92% at 100M per year. That would leave them with $8M a year, they are still rich.
Pay for it that way, with no increase in the National Debt and see how the Fat Cats feel about it then.
They want Socialism for Fat Cats, let the Fat Cats pay for it.
The idea came to me courtesy of Bernie Sanders here.
Alice X - (Chomsky Nader) - status quObama - change you can pretend in - @ 35:
Alice X for president 2008.
Great suggestion Alice.
"They’ll have to beat off Israel abroad."
That's a new one.
Peter G @ 22:
HAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHHHHHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!!!!!!!!!!
honda is coming out with their compressed natural gas
civic to the u.s. soon. i suspect it will be a good option.
there are a few companies that sell an apparatus that
connects to the natural gas source at your residence. it compresses the gas. so you fill your tank at home.
http://automobiles.honda.com/civic-gx/
Karen @ 30:
French MDI and Indian Tata car companies.
$2500 for the Indian compact car, eight times that price in the US, after it has been through too many middle men and assorted taxes and levies.
SiteMonitor - can you please check the fishnet, my post re:Morgan and Goldman does not show up. Thank you.
constituent @ 39:
Honestly, the thought of that sort of scares me. When you start to make fuel for vehicles which is also used for heating purposes, the cost may wind up going so high that people cannot afford to stay warm.
I am not against the idea, I am afraid of the reality of greed.
It's not so bad as that. Burning fuel in a big power plant is WAY more efficient than even the ceramic-piston engines the Japanese are working on. Car engines are very limited in how hot they can get. A big power plant can get REALLY hot and extract maximum energy at maximum efficiency.
Norway is a leader in this field.
Think about that.
Norway has made a fortune from North Sea oil, which is running out. But they have squirreled away a shitload of money from the revenues and are busy making sure their nation has a post-oil future.
Some countries are smart. Flat-out, jaw-dropping smart.
Everybody catch that tool from what was it... GM... last week on the Colbert Report? Talking about their new hybrid car... you could smell the disdain through the television from this suit. He even cracked a joke about how you could only pick up ugly, hairy hippie chicks with this thing. And you know something? He's RIGHT. I believe that it's an intentional FU to the consumer that these new cars all look like friggin' ASS.
Now I'm not a gear head. I have no viceral love for my vehicle, no adolescent need to feel the frame shake and the motor go VROOM! when I press the accelerator. I'm sure with these new cars we could tie a vibrator and MP3 player into the accelerator to simulate that for these neanderthals but I digress... The ppoint s for me it is merely a means of conveyance. I do however have EYES. And I can tell an attractive design from a lame one. I also have a brain that knows that, at the end of the day, a car is a box on wheels and ultimately, that box can be any shape we like.
Yet year after year, dragged kicking and screaming as they have been, car manufacturers continue to make shit-looking cars for the progressively minded driver and I for one am sick of it. I say it's a conspiracy to keep their sales low enough that they can justify making them so ungodly expensive and thus maintain the oil/car industry stranglehold just that bit longer...
MsJoanne @ 42:
that angle/concern has been talked about. apparently natural
gas is charged/priced on a tier system vs. strictly based on useage.
anyways, this will require state legislation which i hear is favorable with current crude prices.the legislation would be directed at fair pricing. as you know compressed natural gas has been used in fleet vehicles in the states for yrs. personal vehicles have been using nat. gas in europe for some time.
constituent @ 27:
Once. I hate to rain on anybody's party but from an engineering standpoint this is not a very good design. The devil's in the details. That 2000 lbs of battery under the floor is almost certainly a standard lead-acid battery which means it holds the equivalent energy of about a gallon and a half of gasoline. It wasn't the oil companies that killed cars of this type it was the monstrous inefficiencies of hauling the batteries around. If you check the mileage claims you'll find there based on optimal performance on flat roads in daylight. The charging cycle is long, of course. Pure electrics can use other batteries. A ni-cad would cost about twenty five thousand and need frequent replacement. Toshiba has a new lithium ion technology technology that looks like it will revolutionize the electric car but it is not yet available. Go with a hybrid. It is a much better bet.
The Modern Taliban
http://www.afghanistannewscenter.com/news/2008/september/sep202008.html#14
"Morgan Stanley dropped as much as 44 percent Sept. 17, the biggest one-day decline in its history, and Goldman Sachs Group Inc., where Paulson was chief executive officer from 1998 to 2006, lost 26 percent. Both are based in New York."
This is from a bloomberg article about the crisis.
Now I read another article where Obama's pick for sec of treasury is a republican and THE FORMER CEO of Goldman sachs.
Is it me or is this a little bit unsettling?
GS just gained so much power and clout, and have virtually unlimited access to the feds coffers to stave off the crisis, and the sec of tresury present and future is a former GS ceo.
Has anyone else pointed this out?
Peter G @ 47:
i pretty much agree with you regarding the GM electric vehicle.
i do wonder if the technology would have evolved by now had they continued the program. i still believe oil put the kabosh
on the program....but i'm aware the batteries have evolved since then......but think it would be that much farther along.
GonzoD @ 13:
Naomi Klein is right. She's Bush in drag.
StirFry @ 51:
How do you know Bush is not Palin in drag?
35 Alice X - (Chomsky Nader) - status quObama - change you can pretend in - Says: For the $700 billion Fat Cat bailout swindle, there should be an immediate emergency progressive surtax on everyone above, say 100k per year.
Progressive to say 92% at 100M per year. That would leave them with $8M a year, they are still rich.
Pay for it that way, with no increase in the National Debt and see how the Fat Cats feel about it then.
They want Socialism for Fat Cats, let the Fat Cats pay for it.
The idea came to me courtesy of Bernie Sanders here.
==========
See also:
Senator Bernie Sanders: The Middle Class Must Not Be Forced to Bail Out Wall Street Greed
Lays out a plan to end the financial crisis and the economic crisis, to the benefit of We The People.
constituent @ 50:
Check out the news stories on Toshiba's new battery technology. Lightweight, fast charge and high energy density. The even claim to have beaten the recurring exploding battery problem. This could change the opinion of a lot of skeptics. Specifically, me.
MountainMan23 @ 53:
The only problem with this plan is the FAT CATS control the cheese while eating us mice.
curtilingus @ 31:
Call and Email your representatives ASAP. I already received an automated response from my Congress-thing, Darrell Issa (R - Hunger):
http://gopnot4me.blogspot.com/2008/09/what-price-nation.html
Here's a post from February that makes dire predictions in re financial collapse:
http://gopnot4me.blogspot.com/2008/02/looming-banking-collapse.html
Good thing I've got all my money tied up in debt!
You know...McCain should just STFU about any topic regarding the economy and this recent disaster.
NYT: McCain chief of staff/lobbyist was paid $2m by Fannie and Freddie for access to McCain and to stop regulation of banking industry
This is fucked up. PRick Davis should resign and pay us back. I feel an Obama ad coming on Monday.
xoites defends Constitution @ 52:
Yeah, they don't talk to the press and you never see them together. OMG!!!
xoites defends Constitution @ 52:
Thanks! Now I have to go wash my mind's eye out with soap. :)
And you thought it couldn't get any worse and any more like nazi Germany.
Big Bird and Sesame Str teaching kids the joys of 'Big Brother' aka Homeland Security.
Is training the kids to inform on parents and relatives the next step for the DHS young pioneers ?
The Sesame Street DHS group photo (pic)
Better link for open thread...
EV Beetle
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j6RswTmhGKo
ignore the first link that was a snafu
Ryoko @ 2:
.
I am more concerned about the return of my money than the return on my money. --Mark Twain
We certainly live an interesting life !
from the NYT DealBook:
Goldman,Morgan to Become Full-Fledged Banks
September 21, 2008, 9:35 pm
.."" The regulation by the Federal Reserve brings a host of accounting rule changes that should benefit the two banks in the current environment.
In return, they will submit themselves to greater regulation, including limits on the amount of debt they can take on. When it collapsed, Lehman had about a 30:1 debt-to-equity ratio, meaning it had borrowed $30 for every dollar in capital it held. Morgan Stanley currently has a debt-to-equity ratio of 30:1, while Goldman Sachs has one of about 22:1.
Bank of America, on the other hand, currently has about an 11:1 leverage ratio, while JPMorgan has about 13:1 and Citigroup about 15:1. Because they can borrow less, bank holding companies typically have lower earnings multiples.
GOPnot4me @ 59:
I hear Palin's practicing her signature for signing statements and she's gonna cook the McCain's a "special" celebration dinner if they win.
StirFry @ 57:
I would certainly hope so.
The hypocrisy from McPOW grows every day. Not even that interview on 60 Minutes can wash it all away.
GOPnot4me @ 56:
Hey GOP let me tell you why your strategy actually puts you ahead of those who are out of debt.
You debt will not increase as the economy tanks. For people who have money, even dollars, their net worth and buying power will GO DOWN. The first side effect of this is the US dollar will get crushed. Your cash will not buy as much. GOP's debt will be the same. He can even stop paying on it and do better than those with cash reserves.
Nice fix, Mr. Treasurer (aka former CEO of Goldman sachs)
ferrofluid (Obama + Biden = 2008) @ 62:
Studiously ignoring first link...
constituent @ 46:
I am glad they are at least keeping that in mind. That makes me feel much better.
One other question: Is any doubly disgusted that McCain and his automaton (i.e. Cindy) is going to be on the Rachel Ray Show?
I'm irritated by Ray as it is, but watching that particular episode might be potentially mind-numbing.
69!
ways to fix the economy.
There. I was on topic
StirFry @ 51:
No, she's Osama bin Laden with lipstick.
curtilingus @ 70:
Open thread. I am thinking about staying on topic by discussing fried bread.
I know x I was deleted one time for my 69! declaration being OT. I just like to celebrate great numbers.
Bernie Sanders has at least thought out a real solution that can recover the funds they want to use to bail the banks out. The GOP solution is, "Taxpayer, help us, help us or things will get worse for you. Give us more money to fritter away now."
MsJoanne @ 71:
HAHA...that's a more accurate description.
curtilingus @ 73:
Oh, i see. You were celebrating the sex act you were almost named after that does not create either new believers or cannon fodder.
i recommend this one page read. it's about the subprime/credit crisis.
it doesn't seem to be the actual subprime loans but the'betting' that
was occuring....on whether or not the subprime loan would fail. i can't
explain it well....but they were betting. they could take either side and
win or lose. if they bet the loan would default they would benefit.
http://www.motherjones.com/news/feature/2008/07/foreclosure-phil.html
Ron @ 74:
You misquote:
"Taxpayer, help us, help us or things will get worse for you. Give us more money to squirrel away now."