Blaming Obama For Bush's Gitmo Decisions
I'd just like to point something out to the many rightwingers who are frothing at the mouth today over the NYT's story that a former Gitmo detainee has become the deputy leader of Al Qaeda's Yemeni branch.
The Bush administration released this man in 2007, without trial -a decision made by political appointees, not judicial review - and handed him over to the Saudis who let him walk.
So who is at fault here?
Rather than blaming Obama for wanting to actually put bad guys on trial - proper trial - shouldn't these rightwing pundits be asking why the Bush administration made a political decision to let this guy go? Was there insufficient evidence? Was the evidence tainted by torture? Was he simply an innocent swept up by "arrest for bounty" tactics who became radicalized by his experience? What's the actual evidence for "suspecting" he has "returned" to terror?
Andrew Sullivan was kind enough to link to one of my old posts on this subject the other day in which I wrote:
Some very bad people are likely to walk free along with the innocent because the Bush administration tried to walk around domestic and international principles of law, creating an entirely spurious new designation of “unlawful combatant” so that they could either hide detainees from due process indefinitely or, failing that, conduct kangaroo courts.
If they’d just stuck with the existing definitions, all the Gitmo detainees against whom they could build a real case under the actual rules of law, without torture and without rigging the courts, would have been tried...already. If found guilty, the death penalty would have been warranted in some cases. I would personally have had no problem with that.
That's just the inevitable fallout from Bush's foolhardy actions. There's no real argument about it. But this instance is potentially even worse. If the Bush administration really thought this guy was dangerous and had real evidence to that effect, why did they make the political decision to turn him over to Bush's pals the Saudis instead of putting him on trial?
Crossposted from Newshoggers
still hoisting boosh's water.
piss on them.
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common sense matters as much as truth
all the stories of the recidivist terrorists have been debunked. this is just another fresh turd.
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common sense matters as much as truth
Both have a liberal bias.
Would we be allowed to force our prisoners to perform in a jailhouse rendition of the HMS Pinafore?
Diabolus est Deus Inversus
Let's put the proposed terrorist-detention camp in Crawford.
President Genocide and his band of blood drinkers knew virtually all of these "prisoners" would have gotten off.
Guilty people fear the legal process.
So very true. I may have to steal that.
NOBODY 2012
Under the Constitution of the US, every last detainee has earned immediate release. Doesn't matter what something thinks they did, or knows they did.
Due process was abrogated and any talk of trials, even from the new president is total and utter bullshit. And it just enhances the illegal treatment the detainees had been subjected to.
If they wanted to try these guys for alleged crimes, that time has come and long gone. 'Speedy trial' does not = seven years of torture and denial of legal counsel and still no trial.
me-oww!
seem the fairest thing to do. No speedy trial and due process = immediate release. Along with plane tickets, some spending cash, and formal letters of apology from the US government. Simple, and would save all the bullshit about where to put them.
"Parachutes are allowed in checked or carry-on baggage, but may not be worn in flight."
---Southwest Airlines
Ah, but, alot of their own countries do not even want them back, so where do they go then? Some of them even know that if they do return to their country, some will be tortured and put to death. So now what?
If I were arrested and taken from my homeland based on false charges, renditioned, tortured, denied legal assistance, wasn't informed of what I was being charged with and imprisoned for years...I'd be a fucking terrorist too.
Just like with the invasion of Iraq, these guys never thought ahead. They just did shit off the cuff with no thought to the out come of their actions. Grab every man with dark skin, slap him in prison, torture him to try to get info, and then what? They never thought that far ahead.
And again just like the invasion of Iraq, they didn't know what to do so they handed it all off to the next administration.
Say what you mean. Mean what you say. But don't say it mean.
on purpose
me-oww!
They have no quality candidates. The conservatives have produced nothing but dog shit candidates since Eisenhower.
when it suits.
You're right. but how does it explain 2 term Nixon, two term bush, two term r fucking Reagan, the worst POS ever? He still has them thinking he was the greatest. It's lying and cheating. This time they threw Palin up to make sure they lost.
me-oww!
But this time they jumped the shark with Palin. Even cheating and lying couldn't fix stupid.
Say what you mean. Mean what you say. But don't say it mean.
they didn't want this mess. there's a long history of the Thugs fucking shit up, then the Dems fixing it, being vilified by the Thugs once the shit is fixed, then them taking over and fucking shit up again. FDR got the Depression, JFK got VietNam and Cuba and the Central America clusterfuck, Carter got a large steaming pile of of Nixon/Ford shit and was set up on the Iran bullshit by the Thugs, and Clinton got a huge steaming pile of dismantled social services, and now Obama gets this.
Trust me. They threw the fuckin race.
me-oww!
Southern strategy, Civil Rights, Democrats soft on war, crime, welfare, affirmative action, Democratic party is the party of minorities, etc.
Yep...Lying and cheating.
"two term fucking Reagan, the worst POS ever?"
This made me laugh, I suppose you think Carter was fantastic...I would love to go back to those years and continue waiting in line for gasoline to be able to get to work...NOT
Ronald Reagan was a good President no matter what you think, that is why he was re-elected and won 49, should I type that again, 49 states...58.8 to 40.6, a bigger gap than Obama, so yea, I think he did pretty good in his first term to get re-elected so easily.
Back for more unfounded race baiting, John?
and he is a top negotiator for peace and human rights in troubled parts of the world. He is also a key player in Habitat for Humanity and other non-profit organizations.
The world needs more like him. He has my respect.
Nope, I am by no means race baiting, but as the poster here ^^^ states more like Carter is needed? Wow.... were you around when he was IN office or do you know him just by what he has done in the past few years?
and I remember my disgust when Raygun was elected and the sordid matters of Iran contra, Ollie North, etc, which followed.
Anyone who strives for peace is OK by me.
Sir.
All us dissenters were supposed to be in detention camps by now anyway so this wasnt supposed to even be an issue.
Withus or againus remember??
Remember how the Bush regime rained down do much corruption, incompetence, cronyism, scandal and disaster it was impossible for the American people to keep track of it all? This weeks outrageous scandal was knocked completely off the front pages by next weeks outrangeous scandal. It was like trying to hit a moving target, remember?
I bring this up because that's how Obama needs to govern the way he's doing now. Do rapid fire good for America, something everyday, keep it coming non-stop, undo Bush damage day after day. The righwing won't be able to keep up, their heads will explode trying to bring Obama down as he tries to bring America back from all the damage the GOP reign of political terror has brought this nation. Obama needs to continue being the moving target for good the right wing can't keep up with.
Today he will sign an executive order overturning the Mexico City Policy.
Say what you mean. Mean what you say. But don't say it mean.
The Global gag rule. This is terrific news!
Just for a quick bit of humor. While I was typing my last comment my phone rang twice. The first caller left a message that he could help me get out of the heavy credit card debt that he noticed I have. The second caller left a message that he could help me with the mortage problems that he sees I have.
I have no credit card debt and my house is paid for in full.
Say what you mean. Mean what you say. But don't say it mean.
They were both from republics?
I have no idea where they were from but both companies wasted time and money by not actually doing their homework.
Say what you mean. Mean what you say. But don't say it mean.
trying to get personal info and do a scam.
they mentioned how/where they happened to "see" your problems. Nothing quite like making a living off of desperate or down-on-their luck folks.
It used to be a stigma to only have a cell, but now it really seems no problem. I just rented a storage unit, and they had spaces for three phone numbers. I filled in my cell number and put "same" for the other two--no problems.
"Parachutes are allowed in checked or carry-on baggage, but may not be worn in flight."
---Southwest Airlines
THAT has a very familiar ring.
I'm wearing out my finger tips deleating all of the NEW credit offers, too.
At this stage how can we consider puting these people on trial. Are we just going to pretend that all of the civil rights violations just didn't happen and start over like they have just been captured and now we will give them all their due rights? Are we going to pretend that we have ligitimate legal actions to charge them with, with fresh witnesses and good evidence? I for one am not buying the claims of the Bush adminstration that anyone held at GITMO had any reason to be there.
Is there a statute of limitations on any of the things they have been accused of doing?
Listening to Gibbs today doing the press briefing for reporters, there was a hint that the Obama administration may drop the term, "war on terror".
Say what you mean. Mean what you say. But don't say it mean.
What I liked about Obama was he seemed to get it with Gitmo -- the longer we have it, the more reason we give others to attack our country.
But then I just saw this pop up on CNN "Two U.S. missile strikes kill 17 in Pakistan, sources say"
http://www.cnn.com/2009/WORLD/asiapcf/01/23/p...
These are the kinds of tactics I had hoped he would stop.
very counterproductive :(
me-oww!
Gates Predicts U.S. Will be in Iraq and Afghanistan ‘for Years to Come’
http://www.cnsnews.com/public/content/article...
audit-prosecute-incarcerate
who cares what he says
he is just there helping to get his replacement up to speed
Would it matter to you if all 17 were al Qaeda operatives?
because obama said he would do this, while on the campaign trail
yet people are shocked and surprised
obama is not a dove
he is a pragmatic progressive
all military actions are not bad
unless it's 9-11.
or unless your country is "flat busted ass broke"
errrr....actually I mean't "trillions in the red"...
audit-prosecute-incarcerate
nice cernig, excellent way to frame what must be giving the rightwing a thrill up their collective legs--despite how it undermines their bluster.
the right will twist this--granted--but, really, it speaks to the efficacy if trials.
once again the rightwing swings and
pays for a blowjob in some airport bathroommissesSo I followed the link to the NY times story and thought it was way too funny that the guy who "returned to terror"
..."passed through a Saudi rehabilitation program for former jihadists before resurfacing with Al Qaeda in Yemen."
a "rehab for former jihadists" ahahahahahhahahahahaha!!!!!
audit-prosecute-incarcerate
Picture this poor angry soul in a cave with Osama being re-hypnotized...scary music included. Lol.
So, these people who became insta-terrorists by the fact they caught the free ride to Club Gitmo, a tropical paradise, were released back onto the "battlefield" from which they were snatched so they could continue to terrorize America by writing documentaries and editorials.
I don't know why wingers want to detain enemy combatants in a tropical paradise where they can continue to organize and plot vs. come to a maximum security prison. Hmmm. Is there something they don't want us to see?
I've been posting this elsewhere, but the reason bush/cheney authorized torture was to keep on hand a steady supply of enemies to scare the tax dollars out of us. Sick? Um, yes.
Because most of the far right has absolutely no problem with the way we've been dishing out justice the last 5 or 6 years
See me try to talk to these morons here:
http://www.redstate.com/mark_i/2009/01/23/six...
How is this Obama's fault? It's King George's fault that his joke of an administration didn't have proper due process, which might have led to convictions of those men who actually were terrorists that we had at Gitmo. Instead, many of them walked free. Good job, Georgie!
Bush has done more damage then Bin laden could dream of doing in a hundred years..
While fulfilling all of the wealthy and corporations dream in the past 8 years.... Bush has accomplish every item which Bin laden could not..
Bush has destroy our economy , manufacturing plants , constitution , democracy , right , jobs , economy , our honor and our military...
Bush stated that the enemy fines new and better ways to destroy us and "SO DO WE"..
Well it looks as if Bush (so do we statement) did a better job of our destruction then Bin did.
None
these clowns were quiet and had their heads either in the sand or up their asses when the Worst. President. Ever. was running around.
NOBODY 2012
was so important, these people would not have spent their time cutting Paris Hilton's taxes and pretending to care about Terry Schiavo. They're the ones who have the burden of proving that they're "tough on terror," not Obama.
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