Raising revenues is getting bogged down in health care
By John Amato Friday Jul 10, 2009 12:00pmMatt Yglesias has a good post up on the importance of, you know, raising the damn money to pay for health-care reform.
Jonathan Cohn makes the important point that a bit lost in the week’s news that Harry Reid is cracking the whip on Max Baucus is the fact that this whip-cracking seems to have involved ruling out the idea of limiting the tax-exempt status of employer-provided health care as a revenue source for reform. Some important labor unions don’t like this idea and it doesn’t poll very well, but it’s too bad to see it ruled out because it’s a pretty good idea. And what’s more, even if you don’t like the idea you do need some idea of how to raise the $1 trillion to $1.3 trillion over ten years that something like the Senate HELP plan would cost.
-
This seems like a good moment to issue my dozenth call for congress to take another look at the Obama administration’s original revenue proposal—limiting tax deductions for high-income itemizers. This would target basically the same group of people (rich people) as House liberals’ plan for a surtax on high-income couples but raise the money in a substantially more efficient way.When possible, it’s better to raise money by broadening the tax base—curbing loopholes, deductions, and exemptions—than by simply raising the rates. The reason is that higher rates on a narrow base do a lot to encourage people to shift income into loopholes, which both undermines your revenue-raising efforts and also distorts the economy. Both the employer tax exclusion proposals and the itemized deductions proposal fit that good model.
Big Time Ezra says that Obama shouldn't be so stuck on telling people that they can keep what they have:
One of the president's health-care reform principles is that everyone must be able to keep what he or she currently has. But that means we're not really going to change, or improve, what they have. And that means they're not getting much in the way that's new. Higher taxes aren't buying them obvious benefits. Instead, they seem to be paying the health-care bills of poorer Americans.
If support for the overall effort were more robust, the polling on the tax exclusion would matter less. People are willing to pay for things they want to buy. But though they might abstractly favor health-care reform, it doesn't seem directly related to their lives.
So now the Senate is trying to find revenue options that fall on fewer people. That's one response. If health-care reform will only directly help the few, then its fiscal impact will have to be similarly narrow. But another would be to go in the other direction and gamble on policies that would make health-care reform a more direct contributor to the lives of the many, and so potentially something they'd be willing to pay for.
Playing it safe is not helping. I know President Obama is trying to reassure people so the right wingers can't scare them, but no matter what he does, the right wingers will scare Americans. It's in their nature and their only true talent. So start playing hardball because Americans want health care reform.
Sure, they have no idea what a Baucus or Reid or Grassley or a Lincoln means in this debate, but start framing it better and come out throwing hay-makers. The Democratic leadership should have had the money aspect of this worked out already, but you can't accommodate all sides.
It is a complex issue to figure out, but all options have to be on the table, and if losing a seat in Congress is the price that has to be paid, who cares except for Rahm? Health care is too important to be worried about attack ads in 2010. Just get the job done.








Login or Register to post comments.
1. Cut Defense spending by $400B a year
2. Cut agri-business subsidies
3. Cut Oil and Coal subsidies
4. Cut Bureau of Livestock and Mining hidden subsidies
5. Outlaw earmarks
6. Dismantle the CIA
7. Defund the Dept. of Homeland Security
8. Place MASSIVE tarrifs on imports from non Democracies
9. Legalize pot
10. Cut the pay of Senators and Congressmen, make them live in dorms and eat in a dining hall until they straighten this mess out!
yet, i would do the exact opposite with your number 10
i would give the members of congress a raise. yes, a raise. then i would ban any and all donations said politician can receive. no money transactions btwn members of congress and the public (lobbyists, indivs, corporations, foreign govts, etc, etc, etc)
That's the root of the problem, campaign finance reform. BIGTIME!
Lobbying payoffs will never stop, so tax them, put service charges on lobbyists, and require additional fees and licensing just like they do our businesses. Require hourly limits or surcharges on lobbying time. Meter the bastards.
for health care than we do now, how will single-payer cost more here? A very simple direct unanswered question. And then, why would we choose a public option that would cost us over a trillion dollars when single-payer would cost less than our current system or the public option or both together? Anyone?
Congress works for the insurance companies, not us. Get with the program!
questions.
jhunter is right - you asked "why?" and he answered. "We" is them, not us.
That isn't snark that is the truth. You have to understand how legislation is made and passed. There isn't a simpler answer available. Bills aren't proposed that can't get votes. They won't make it out of committee. If they make it out of committee the Speaker may not let it get a vote. Not to mention lobbyists write a lot of bills. It is an extremely complicated and convoluted process and the least important consideration is what is good for us.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mEJL2Uuv-oQ
The legislative process?
I was asking rhetorical questions. We posted at the same time, and I was not responding to you. Do you always think it's all about you? I was trying to start a debate not a flame war.
When you reply to my post I assume you are talking to me, I don't wanna fight!
.
are afraid of. If businesses decide to go with the public health plan, the money they pay will actually go to the PHP instead of the insurance company. It will improve the profit margin of the business and the trend will spread like wildfire. The economy will flourish because consumers will have more disposable income. That, will cut into their excess profits and bonuses.
Single payer removes the profit from HMOs. From their point of view, it really costs more (as in most of their profits more).
The "Public Option" is yet another perversion of language by the HMO/Congressional complex.
I want someone from the to explain to us all why the cost of an inferior plan is the current reason that "funding" is going to tank this. And BTW, as someone pointed out the other day on this blog, it is about health INSURANCE reform, not "health care reform."
It is about perspective. What may cost less for working families would be ruinous for an Insurance CEO! And who do you think Congress listens to, Joe Blow for Bumfuck Michigan or the guy he plays golf with on Wednesdays, the same guy he went to Harvard Government School with, the guy his sister is going to marry, the guy that will get him a job when/if he loses an election, the guy that took him on a junket to Barbados last winter, the guy that makes sure when he needs money for a campaign commercial he gets it?
That is the process!
You sound pissy and naive. Learn the process and then fight it! That's my plan! That's why I am back in school!
..of the cynicism curve. Your examples seem more like "perception" than "perspective". Sen. Al Franken was sworn in the other day; who took him to Barbadoes? Are you running for office and if you are, will you go to Barbadoes when the Money-man shows up?
Just wait, he is new. he will be corrupted as sure as shit stinks. I wish it were not that way but it's a scene from a made for TV movie. Mr. Franken will be forcwed to compromise that which is most valuable to him.
But that is not the point. The comment was pointed at the career politician like Baucus and Blunt and their career lobbying buddies!
I'm still not impressed.
I'd say jhunter99844 is not cynical enough.
Thanks!! I didn't want a fight but jeeez!! I want single payer too!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
say so.
Add this to it: The high school smart ass who thinks he knows what he is talking about, or an actual politician who SHOULD respond to his or her constituents?.
Get it? I doubt it.
Ma'am I am 45 year old salesman form Columbia IL. I am going back to school to get a Poli Sci/English degree heavy on Spanish and IT. I want to be a full time lobbyist/activist or political writer.
I am as idealistic as anyone!
But I know how the system works and I want to fix that system. The way to fix it is to get inside and dedicate your life to fixing it. That is what I am doing. But I need the education first.
You telegraphed that info in a post the other day. Now you've done it again.
There are a whole host of profiteers in the current system - billing services and software, specialized coding and claims processors, collection agencies, and so on. Single payer would massively simplify the whole accounting side of health care and a lot of lobbyists beyond the insurance companies are lined up out there trying to prevent any step in that direction.
is completely disingenuous, because they took the least expensive option off the table before it was ever given any honest consideration. The insurance companies have taken enough money. They need to be taken out of the health care equation, completely and permanently. Like ripping off a bandage: All at once is the best way.
Yeah, single payer is the way to go. BTW, you also need to talk about the other myths that the right is spreading around. First, "government-run" health care does not mean a government bureaucrat standing between you and your doctor. The decisions will be made by you and your doctor, as opposed to your current system where decisions are made by insurance company bureaucrats. I'm a 50-year-old Canadian gal and I've never had any government inteference in my health care.
Second, single-payer health care will not mean ginormous tax increases. Whatever tax increase there might be, it will be less than what you're paying now for private health care insurance.
I just don't get this mentality that it's okay to pay sky-high prices to private health insurance who look for excuses to deny you benefits, but it's a disaster if you have to pay a little extra in taxes for health coverage that will be there when you need it.
Also, with single payer you won't have to worry about pre-existing conditions or losing your coverage if you lose your job or change jobs.
My doctors are for single-payer. Thank you for the back-up.
Remember, we're more worried about the "tone" in Washington D.C. than it's crappy leadership.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AutxFgxTshM
"When possible, it’s better to raise money by broadening the tax base—curbing loopholes, deductions, and exemptions—than by simply raising the rates. The reason is that higher rates on a narrow base do a lot to encourage people to shift income into loopholes, which both undermines your revenue-raising efforts and also distorts the economy. Both the employer tax exclusion proposals and the itemized deductions proposal fit that good model."
Good one John!
The Republicans will run attack ads in 2010 no matter how much you cave in to them.
Obama has given all your money to the pentagon and the banksters who run wall st. and run your govt...
Repeat...there is no money left for health care so there is no point in even talking about it...
Dont bother shopping if you dont have any money.
Repeat! there is no money left...get over it.
for the rich. Obama wants another stimulus package? He will get it. Working and unemployed Americans want to go to the doctor or dentist without going to US Bankruptcy Court? There's no money for that, so pay your taxes, take your oxys or hydros, and dope up and shut up, saith the Congress-swine.
When it is for the people, they are fiscal conservatives.
Bailouts for the establishment or for the military industrial complex, borrow and spend like there is no tomorrow.
Politics as usual.
.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G5ju2wm0dzM
x
If I pay $6000 annually and my company pays $6000 annually for me alone ($12,000 annually), and John Amato pays $9600 annually for himself alone (per a post last night), why is funding an issue? What happens to the payments that people make now if they go into the public option? Are we going to keep paying the private companies? There are millions in funding for people who are being gouged now who, like me, eagerly await a public option so we can opt out of the crappy insurance foisted upon us as our only option by our employers.
No one ever mentions that. What happens to all that money?
that the public option will have "limits" on who can participate and it's likely to resemble an extension of medicare more than insurance with a huge pool. In other words, it will cover more people who aren't currently covered either because they can't afford it or because of preexisting conditions. That's an expensive, but not rich group of people right there.
It goes into big boats, vacation homes, hookers, golf, etc.
issue needs to answer questions like this.
In the Beatles clip, where's George's Gretsch? Where did that odd Rick he's playing come from?
People will . .
http://www.reuters.com/article/smallBusinessN...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qEEfJGp6VLw&fe...
“... the fact that this whip-cracking seems to have involved ruling out the idea of limiting the tax-exempt status of employer-provided health care as a revenue source for reform. ...”
This is where I thought it might go, cover the uninsured poor, and create a new tax on middle class workers on the imputed income for their employer paid health insurance. And needless to say, with no meaningful cost controls, the imputed income would be higher than if we had a cost structure similar to Japan's.
“... It is a complex issue to figure out, but all options have to be on the table, ... Just get the job done.”
But all options are not on the table, namely, the option that would get the job done, pay for itself, and generate a savings for the public. The rest of the industrial countries pay no more than 11% of GDP, whereas, we pay at least 16% of GDP and leave 50 million people uninsured. If we copied one of those systems, the public collectively could pocket (16% - 11%) 5% of GDP !!! So, we don't need to talk about paying more money, we need to talk about saving money. That's getting the job done.
What we've been witnessing so far is a massive charade that has as its primary mission, protecting corporate profits at the expense of the American public. Any deviation from that mission has so far been "off the table". This whole thing is not complex at all, and Ross Perot stated the solution back in 1992: Study the systems used in the other industrial countries and copy the best one.
We don't need an "American" solution. That's doublespeak for "protect corporate profits".
http://www.southcoasttoday.com/apps/pbcs.dll/...
"I strongly encourage you all to call, write, text or otherwise contact your congressmen and senators, and encourage them to strongly consider H.R. 676, the single-payer system that will fundamentally eliminate a huge waste of health-care dollars and restore our health-care system."
So you'll be posting on making sure that single payer advocates get heard, then?
The souless bastards are already tallying up how much they can expect in revenues from fines levied on those who don't buy mandatory health insurance. There's more than enough money to pay for single-payer healthcare, they just don't want to chase the fattest hogs away from the public trough.
Login or Register to post comments.