Is Stimulus deal done?
By John Amato Friday Feb 06, 2009 4:29pmCNN said it was for 780B and FOX is reporting the deal looks to be about 805 Billion. S. Smith is saying that McConnell sez there won't be a vote tonight.
Kyl was crying about Republicans like Specter and Collins...
Ben Nelson is talking now and called his group "The Job Squad." Yikkes.
More as it comes in...All these cloture procedures and unanimous consent rules have to be implemented still.
Update:
Vitter is acting like a jerk as usual...
I hear the plan is up to 42% in tax cuts and 58% spending...
Update:
Goober Graham is attacking his good pal Joe Lieberman over the plan...
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President Obama wants the bill on his desk Feb. 16 th. will see. he may need to be wearing a jacket and tie so the (R) won't get out of sorts. newt gingrich wants to delay it for a few weeks.
to the U.S.A.
This spending bill is all political.
It won't help me.
I suspect it won't help you.
I know it won't help the economy.
Good luck to you.
Its amazing that people just want to throw trillions on a problem, without even thinking where the money will come from.
Bus heading off a cliff - change direction? No, just hit the accelerator.
We will be back for another couple $Trillion plus in about 6months or so.
Why do so few get this? Why is almost no one asking where the money os going to come from?
I think it's because they know deep down were borrowing it, again. I think though Obama is in for a pretty big surprise soon. China is in bigger trouble than we are. They are looking to do massive asinine spending on their own stimulus.
Our deficit spending has been heavily dependent on China; they are not going to flip the bill for us much longer as you can see in my below links. They won’t be stimulating both economies in fact China is sitting on $2 trillion sterilized US dollars and they are looking to unload, that will break the dollars back if that happens.
The World Won't Buy Unlimited U.S. Debt – Peter Schiff
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1232669889143...
China Not A Limitless Sponge For U.S. Debt
Growth of Chinese foreign exchange reserves slows at a time when Washington needs Beijing to buy Treasuries more than ever.
http://www.forbes.com/2009/01/19/china-forex-...
U.S. debt is losing its appeal in China
http://www.iht.com/articles/2009/01/07/busine...
Rates: When Zero Is Way Too High (Liquidity traps)
http://www.businessweek.com/bwdaily/dnflash/c...
Vitter is probably upset the STD Prevention package was trimmed back.
42% tax cuts?
Well gee, perhaps we should have just accepted Limbaugh's offer when he gave it to us?!?
I know that the cuts could be to useful things (small business tax cuts are not bad, etc.) but spending is just a much more effective stimulus! How are tax cuts going to help those that have lost their jobs or will in the next few months? Tax cuts are only effective when people are working, which is what the damn problem IS right now. The best stimulus is a salary, not a tax cut! Preferably for more than 18 months, which is why IT'S FANTASTIC that some of this money isn't being spent until 2011/2012. Pork my a$$
Seriously, grow a fucking spine and do what is necessary at this time Democrats! The country is counting on you!
Never make this suggestion to a Republican.
What if it's a republican club for sorority girls?
very few get bye you..........funny
Best - laugh - of - the - day!!!
bravo, loonie, bravo!
less than 2% GDP may NOT be enough. 42% in tax cuts, well the (R) will have to take some heat if this doesn't work enough that is.
all of this "hoopla" in the senate over the past few days, was to get a balance of tax cuts vs spending and to decrease the aggregate $ of the deal to get the 2 to 3 moderates/republicans to vote for it?? correct?
Tentative Stimulus Deal Confirms Krugman's Law:
"Look, Republicans are not going to come on board. Make 40% of the package tax cuts, they'll demand 100%. Then they'll start the thing about how you can't cut taxes on people who don't pay taxes (with only income taxes counting, of course) and demand that the plan focus on the affluent. Then they'll demand cuts in corporate taxes. And Mitch McConnell is already saying that state and local governments should get loans, not aid - which would undermine that part of the plan, too."
and nobody here supports the tax cut argument, including Krugman, then why are a vast majority screaming "hell ya" for the passage of a bill that will waste almost half a trillion dollars???
This "stimulus" package is going to go over like a lead balloon. Between this and the next bank bailout, it'll be about 3 months before they're back at the trough.
I'm pretty much out of hope for Obama now. By playing tiddly winks with the Republicans and picking tax dodgers and criminals as his cabinet, he's squandered the trust every American put in him.
Nothing can save us from the coming depression. People had better start stuffing their mattresses soon.
almost 1/3 of the bill will not be used until 2010, and beyond. If stimulus is needed right away, then why this?
2010? Oh isn't that just rich.
A time-delayed recovery. I mean swindle.
It's because his diapers need changing.
That's right... [Vitter = Bitter]! :-)
The Bitter Critter Vitter took a Sh!tter
Well I was just leafing through Lollipops magazine.
You might say I have a sweet tooth.
Though I think wisdom will prevail in the oral cavity? :-)
.
TAX CUTS are a reward...
TAX CREDITS are a stimulus.
.
or it will NOT get signed!
Democratic mandate trumps bipartisan theatrics.
It has to go through conference and the senate amendments have to be added back into it. So it's going to be more than 780.
calling his group the "Job Squad"?
More like Blow Job Squad to me.
Really? This guy from Kentucky never heard of the TVA that lifted 3/4 of his Kentuckians out of desperate poverty at the time. And perhaps all the interstate highways that we all ride on every day and take so much for granted...they were failures too? These Republicans have no shame whatsoever. I hope Hell is big enough to hold them all.
is the New Deal part 2? What's being built with this bill? What infastructure? 20% pork, almost half tax cuts, leaves how much infastructure?? Not a lot.
on my house, I'm going to get it fixed. While I'm at it, I might spend some money to also clean and rebuild the gutters to prevent it from happening again, and even more costly repairs in the future. I guess cleaning the gutters would be considered pork spending, but it's pork that makes sense. Same thing here with this spending bill.
all that if you didn't have the money. Would you go and get a loan to fix your roof, then return multiple times to fix the rest? Eventually you have to quit borrowing or you won't be able to pay it back.
And when governments increase spending like this, there WILL be tax increases substantially down the road, that will stop the stimulation cold in it's tracks. They have to. They would have to cut services and or raise taxes to get back on track.
don't confuse them with ideas of actually paying for this monstrosity.
it ruins their feel good emotions.
I'm kind of speaking from common sense. I know. Been layed off since early December. Bills do come due. You have to pay them. With what? Can't see the bank loaning me money right now to pay my mortgage. Why do people think magical government borrowing is any different? You still have to pay.
I'm sorry you're out of work. I hope you can find something soon. I know how hard it is, my hours have been cut back from the slow-down, but at least I'm still making money.
almost 140,000 jobs last month, of which almost half the losses were in my province. The chances of a job right now are between slim to bleak.
I'm in Ontario too. Surrounded by failing car plants. Toyota is set to announce layoffs too so that wont be good for Woodstock or Cambridge. I just finished getting my Grade 12 diploma after 35 years..LOL Never needed it before as i too had a job of 24 years i liked that paid well with benefits. Least i can shovel more educated shit now..LOL Fucking temp agencies are sucking the life out of my city and this Homey dont do that anyways so i might take the Govs cash and go to college for a year or 2. I figure there aint gonna be a lot of work for a while anyways so i may as damn well.
Might have to "barter" some carpentry work once folks start to spend the reno tax credit the gov is handing out. Might try and sell my house to get out of debt. I waited too long to roll my reno debts into my mortgage via equity. Oh Well.. shit happens. I dont think im alone for sure. Be interesting to see where this all bottoms out. Can you say Amero ?
The strategy was to so totally bankrupt the Federal treasury (by running up astronomical deficits)so that the entire government operation basically has to shut down. That was the strategy at the time, and with the Republicans in charge of the Executive Branch for 20 out of the last 28 years, they've just about accomplished it.
It will take drastic, radical measures to dig our way out of it and to finally make government once again functional, and yes, that may mean increasing deficits, but on things that make sense and provide for a future.
The Republicans ran deficits (corporate welfare, military spending and other give-aways)deliberately to destroy the legitimate functions of government.
BUT, and it's a big but, the way to do that is not to include every wishlist into one massive wish bill. That is what they are all doing Dems and Reps alike here. There is no need for a pile of stuff that is in this bill. I've asked it before, is this the only bill that will be passed in the next 4 years? If so, look out. It sure seems that way. They seem more rushed to quickly get their pet projects out of the way, than rushing to save any economy. They were faster at giving bankers billions, both Dems and Reps, because once again, it was urgent.
The hole dug is so deep I don't think even the experts know what to do to get the economy moving again.
I agree there are things in this bill that could have waited, but the average American has been so shut out over the past eight years, that I guess we're seeing the results of pent-up frustration.
If we're lucky, it will be discovered that economic health boils down to emotion. Maybe people will feel optimistic once again, and that alone will be enough to light a spark in the economy. That's why the Republican response is so worrisome. It's as if "optimism" is the last thing they want from the American people.
But are the Reps being obstructionist, or pretending to be the alternative party? Hard to tell with some of them.
On the subject of the last 8 years though, are Americans not tired of all the gloom, doom and fear cards being played? If they are, why is the left doing it now? I've read many blogs where it has been stated
Is that not the same trumped up fear that Cheney was famous for?
The difference is that there is tangible evidence that it is true. I mean really, the economy is really really bad and there are people who are experts who are very scared. This is not "The Russians are coming, the Russians are coming."
Almost 2,000,000 jobs lost in three months. Foreclosure rates that are out of this world. It is real. You are hearing too many Republicans. There is too much evidence that it is true. Man, you are not getting it. This is something else the Republicans have done. They have made it impossible to trust anything a politician says. Like I said though, the evidence is everywhere and the history is there as well. Open your eyes!!
I get it. I'm one of it. Something has to be done, yes. Letting the government ram a whopper of a bill through that includes hardly any real stimulus, won't get it done. Why don't they have a massive REAL infastructure bill? I mean, real infastructure. All money spent on jobs. Redo all major highways, retrofit houses for solar, etc, etc. If they were serious, the crap that is in this bill wouldn't be. And a big chunk of the bill will not come into effect until NEXT YEAR?? Huh? If it is vital, why the delays?
not to worry the governments going to raise the tax on a pack of ciggerets, yippyeeeeee were saved!
50 mill or so to help educate the flock to quit smoking. Here in Ontario, they just passed a law that made it illegal to smoke in your own car! Unbelievable. I don't smoke, but I sure as heck don't think it is any of the gov'ts business what you do with your own property.
Either way, it's a guarantee that every budget has an increase in cig taxes, gas taxes, and alcohol taxes and then the gov't spends money to get help to those addicted. Ya right. And give up that tax revenue? Not.
Hate to nitpick but the new smoking law pertains to having kids under 16 in the car at same time. I guess some female from Sarnia way was first to get dinged. She had 5 kids in the car too without seatbelts on so i think they gave her a couple of extra tickets. It sure is a far cry from our family vacations back in the 60s. The old man with one hand on the wheel, a smoke in his yap and a cold one between his legs. Times have changed.
who keeps giving this bespectacled walking dildo a seat at the table?
oh yeah... kentucky. what a crappy state. no wonder lincoln didn't stick around.
my love for the place pretty much drops off after muhammed ali, bill monroe and the end scene in "stripes".
If you have a moment, take a look at McCain speaking now on the Senate floor. I'm waiting for him to let loose the F-bomb any moment. I think it finally hit him that he was a miserable failure as a candidate for a party that has been such a miserable failure for the country.
blue grass and fried chicken...
Snip - Then in 1929, UPS began to offer air service through private airlines.
Snip - Wednesday May 17, 2006 > For the third time in seven years, logistics giant UPS will significantly expand its WorldPort hub at Louisville International Airport – adding more than
5,000new, well-paying jobs. I wonder why they have those "well-paying jobs" any ideas? Why such an extraordinarily large "WorldPort"? Maybe it's just logistics?if rich uncle pennybags gets to print a mountain of monopoly money for his fatcat, cokehead d!ck-monger pals on wall st., rich uncle pennybags has to print a mountain of monopoly money for the proletariat.
gather 'round, amigos. pinata's 'bout to 'splode...
bull frog back from the hinterlads!
bullfrogs got a baker's dozen lives. i thought you knew that.
and no, the princess still hasn't kissed my ugly @$$...
just protect them leggs , they say thier as good as chicken!
this is america. we don't eat frogs. we just dissect them in biology class.
Why don't the Republicans get this. It is not politics. It is "Save the fucking country." Sure there are/were some things that maybe could be taken out but the Republicans don't understand. They would argue if a Democrat said that water is wet.
This is a great victory for Obama and it will be perceived as such by the public. The bill is not perfect but the Democrats, lacking 2 senators (Kennedy, Franken) still managed to cobble something together to get three Republicans and get it passed. I'm one happy Democrat (actually two with my husband).
Off topic, but don't forget to watch the best series on television tonight!! BSG!
http://www.spacecast.com/Shows/Battlestar-Gal...
I hope Gaeta get his just deserts for his mutiny.
transformation came unexpected to me. I knew they were going to have him as a central figure, but I never expected what he's turned into. It's a great character, and an awesome series. There is even talk of a movie!!
cant you see this was all part of the package the bush cheny corporate plan, fluck up the econmy at the end of thier rule, keep the bozos minds off war crimes keep them scrambeling for a job! played the public like a violin!
follow the money until you reach the top of the pyramid scheme...
then say the names out loud, like "rumplestiltskin", and watch the whole house of cards collapse, and be buried under sand like an egyptian despot's tomb...
Vote lock and step against the bill as it is now, and make sure to get the message out as to why. Something like.......
"We could not Vote on such a politically twisted bill, The Gop have turned a once effective bill into a near utterly ineffective bill. We can not in good judgment pass a bill doomed to fail at its job."
Too bad Obama is too blinded to see the bill for what it is now, and is determined to get anything out there. And he wouldn't let them Put such an honest message out as It would be too hurtful against the GOP, As in not Biparstian.
They cut out the 110 billion I bet none of it was tax cuts. We don't Need any Bill we need a Bill that will work. Both side are too busy thinking about poltics and Not about the country.
They claim the have the bill done and it sounds Like the GOP got just about everything they want Like every other "bipartsan" Bill over the last 2+ years.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/29050187
A couple of days ago, Paul Krugman wrote to say that the current proposal includes a bailout to the equity interests of the banks, the stockholders.
Today, I see Bank Of America (BAC) stock rise 26%, and Citigroup (C) up 10%, primarily on bailout news. So, we're going to bail out the shareholders of the perpetrators, while the victims, such as GM are headed towards bankruptcy. (While there are myriad problems at GM, the instant matter that has driven GM to the precipice of bankruptcy is the inability of potential car buyers to obtain credit).
I think the stock in the banks should be canceled, and the banks equity recapitalized. If we're going to bail out shareholders, what about Circuit City? Why don't we just set up the FSIC, the Federal Stock Insurance Corporation, modeled like the FDIC, that protects all shareholders from losses on their portfolios. Lets bail out every stockholder that has taken a loss since the Dow fell from 14,000.
Obama was the lesser of two evils, and he was the lesser by a country mile, but the bias towards corporate welfare still strongly exists. For some reason, while I see the corporate media hesitantly approach the "buy American" provisions of the bailout (which Obama opposes), the media hasn't touched on the issue of bailing out the shareholders of the institutions that have led us to the brink of Depression II.
We're seeing the same tactics employed here that were employed during the first stimulus, and the same tactics that got us into the Iraq war, namely, such an urgency that we can't take the time to think this through. And an urgency so that the bill passes before the public picks up on the nitty-gritty. And a reliance on the corporate media to insure that the average American won't form an informed opinion. And, we're going to wind up with the same results - a poorly thought-out plan that pisses away more money. Fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on you, fool me, again and again and again, shame on ???
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