(h/t Liberal Democratic Party on Facebook)
'Nuff said.
Amato: Check out Video Cafe for a ton of other videos...
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Lawrence O'Donnell: The Single-Payer Solution |
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Nice to go to bed laughing ... Thanks, C&L. And thanks to Congressional Dems for doing the right thing.
wore a cod-piece when he landed on that flight deck but I think he just soiled his pants in the plane on his way there.
The truth will set you free but can you handle the truth?
The Onion...Sadly it's still very fitting: Pope Forgives Molested Children.
I've never seen change without a fire
Oh noes! It's the Return Of The Penis this time starring President Obama ten years after his appearance in Blazing Saddles, The Quickening.
Can rightarded theofascist Republinazi piles of shit stand this penis this time without squealing like girls and rubbing each other in men's airport bathrooms while thinking of Obama's cock?
And the fortune cookie says, Fuck no, friends!
and don't come back til you do.
people's jokes if they aren't funny to you, eh? Every time I see you post, you're kvetching that people are making fun of Republicans.
I've never seen change without a fire
The Republican thing has nothing to do with it, I just can't stand unfunny shit. Remember when South Park did Whoopi Goldberg?
"I hate Republicans! Republicans are so stupid! .....I hate Republicans!"
Because if the decision about who could comment depended on your kvetching, no one would be commenting.
I've never seen change without a fire
I'm just expressing my opinion, same as everybody else.
Hey, dude! Squeal like a girl! Maybe that'll make the black man's penis shrink. Or something. Damned if anyone but maybe Sigmund Freud can figure out what makes you people afraid of your own cocks leave alone others'.
...Blazing saddles.
Now THAT'S funny.
beat me to it.
“The greatest evildoers are those who don’t remember because they have never given thought to the matter, and, without remembrance, nothing can hold them back,”
Well, Obama's 'big package' was passed tonight. As Americans begin to get some benefit from this imperfect legislation, I hope they remember in November that, as a solid block, Republicans voted, first, to kill it, and then second, against it. A solid block. Not even one Republican in favor. The Party of NO still is.
What will it take for people here to realize that Republicans DO NOT love this country nor the people in it!
We're not going to get very far if you keep injecting logic into the conversation!
Time to think about unregistering from the Democratic Party and re-registering as Independent, Democratic Socialist or other third party. The 'new' Democratic Party is the old Republican Party; the Democratic Socialist Party is probably closer to the old Democratic Party than the 'new' Democratic Party, so is a reasonable choice to consider.
The more people register for a third party, the more people will run for that party.
I'm sure the Republicans will thank you for that.
There's always free cheddar in the mousetrap, baby. - Tom Waits
and a Republican congress - 90%; top tax rate under Nixon - 70%. Top tax rate under Obama and a Democratic congress, after Bush tax cuts expire - 39%. Obama's primary concern - keeping taxes low, not introducing new taxes to pay for, say, healthcare reform, and balancing the budget on the backs of the middle class.
Nixon's healthcare plan proposal - much more liberal than Obama's and had a public plan. Obama's healthcare plan has no public component, for-profit, and paid for out of pocket. Every other industrialized nation's healthcare - non-profit, with a public plan or very strongly regulated private (effectively public) insurance, and paid for via progressive taxation; charging a profit for health insurance is a FELONY. Obama says a non-profit, public plan is *unAmerican*.
I asked Alice X this question yesterday when she brought this up, but I never got an answer. I hope you'll be able to answer. So here it goes:
What ever happened to that Nixon proposal?
Don't try to confuse the issue with half-truths and gorilla dust.
What happened to the slightly less liberal Clinton proposal?
Don't try to confuse the issue with half-truths and gorilla dust.
and he was impeached.
me-oww!
with rates going through the roof since Clinton was president and 85% of Democrats wanting at least a public option and close to 50 Senators onboard WITHOUT Obama making a case for a public option or twisting arms. IMAGINE if Obama truly wanted a progressive healthcare plan and a public option and twisted a few arms what we would have now; you saw what happened when he twisted progressive arms, aka Kucinich. Obama deliberately KILLED all progressive aspects of this bill in order to please his corporate benefactors.
You show me the transcripts where every Democratic Senator agreed to a specific version of any sort of Public Option before the bills went to committee and I'll buy. Hell, show me where 50 of them did.
Don't try to confuse the issue with half-truths and gorilla dust.
because it was too 'cenrist', pleasing noone.
...than this one. It never got to the floor.
Are you not seeing the pattern?
Don't try to confuse the issue with half-truths and gorilla dust.
proposal was more conservative. At any rate, I don't see how you can compare them because those were significantly different circumstances, the process was handled badly (largely in secret), and insurance rates and healthcare costs were a fraction of what they are today.
I think you know that Obama could have EASILY won at the minimum a public option. He kept shifting the goal posts whenever the public option or expanded Medicare or any sort of public plan raised its pesky head again and threatened his precious corporate 'political support'.
There is plenty of fingerprints on the murder weapon leading to Obama, as Miles Mogulescu points out. Here is just some of the evidence -
Public Option Success Is Close - But White House Pushes for Snowe's Trigger Instead. Say What?
Who's Killing the Public Option? President Obama With a Rahm-Bow
Why the Public Option is Doomed To Fail, and What Can Be Done About It
...more conservative than the Nixon proposal, and this bill- that finally, but barely passed- was the most conservative of all of them.
That's the pattern- progressive to centrist to conservative before it finally passed. You know why? Because there's a conciliatory process built into the system- it's called the Senate. And you know why that 85% support for a robust Public Option amongst Democrats doesn't mean crap? Because it's not spread out evenly throughout the country. If Claire McCaskill only won with barely 50% of the vote in Missouri, she'd need 100% of Democratic support to win by a small margin next time around. That goes the same for any Senator from a purple state. So remember that when you're throwing around a number like that, it means that Chuck Schumer and Barbara Boxer are safe, but it doesn't mean that Ben Nelson has the mandate of the majority of Nebraskans.
And, sure, Obama's fingerprints are all over this, and here's why: He was providing cover for 5 or 6 Senators from purple states who were damned if they voted for the PO and damned if they didn't. I'm sure that if you look at who's up for election this year and, probably, in 2012, you can figure out who it was that he was covering.
Don't try to confuse the issue with half-truths and gorilla dust.
progressive Congressmen's arms, wasn't he!!
...show them the trajectory that this type of reform has taken, and suggest they'll get a chance at only more watered down reform right around 2028 or 2030, then, yeah, he twisted arms. You bet.
Don't try to confuse the issue with half-truths and gorilla dust.
it must be so!
"I mean Romney is the most conservative on illegal immigration and I don't think Ronald Reagan could get elected in California today."
Ann "Clipped" Coulter
and I found it quite interesting.
http://voices.washingtonpost.com/ezra-klein/2...
"I mean Romney is the most conservative on illegal immigration and I don't think Ronald Reagan could get elected in California today."
Ann "Clipped" Coulter
It's good analysis. This was practical politics. Not the best bill in the world, but it's a start- and we never had a foot in the door before. Now we start pushing.
Don't try to confuse the issue with half-truths and gorilla dust.
it offers a stand back perspective that those looking for day to day treachery miss. Obama and his team started out from day one planning to neutralize the opposition that would have snuffed out a more (dare I use the word) robust progressive bill early in the process.
"I mean Romney is the most conservative on illegal immigration and I don't think Ronald Reagan could get elected in California today."
Ann "Clipped" Coulter
voice on healthcare reform ... it's uncanny how closely he hews to the WH position.
They had two kids and all
me-oww!
Watching 'Thugs' heads explode? PRICELESS!!
"Parachutes are allowed in checked or carry-on baggage, but may not be worn in flight."
---Southwest Airlines
there IS that.
me-oww!
Rachel Monday night.
“The greatest evildoers are those who don’t remember because they have never given thought to the matter, and, without remembrance, nothing can hold them back,”
Besides all the good things in passing the bill I am just estatic that the economic elite will pay more tax. I am jumping up and clicking my heels! {:>)
One of the prerequisites for being a Republican is having a micropenis and no balls.
The next motha fucker who yells out baby killer is gunna get his ass beat.
Obama's latest sales pitch line, " I am not bound to win, but I am bound to be true ". Goes along with the old " hope and change " BS as well as the " looking forward " crap. Anybody yet got a line on the deal made behind closed doors with Barry and Big Pharma or did the " transparency " thingy get chucked with that too.
I feel sick...
The Demcrats Passed Something !!
OMG!
Could this become a trend?
A habit?
A certainty?
O my .. one can imagine the possibilities ..
edit: The HOUSE Dems Passed Something!
Now let's see the SENATE Dems pass the reconciled bill on Tuesday.
Democracy is too important to be entrusted to politicians.
Rise Up!
Protest!
Real reform that actually helps the American people instead of the corporations is another matter all together.
and this is shit.
Steve, you are our big winner tonight. This bill is a POS. It's that simple. The stench is reaching all the way here to the west coast.
I can only hope that the Dems do NOT take on immigration reform. Nevertheless, I'll bet that the agribusinesses, construction firms and meatpackers are all salivating over their chance to cut some deals with Barack Obama, saviour of Rome.
The people of privilege will always risk their complete destruction rather than surrender any material part of their advantage." J.K. Galbraith
...
me-oww!
before it's too late.
come on up to Canada. I've always loved Americans especially the Progressive kind.
Or would you consider bigamy?
David Drier, Lindsay Graham, Larry Craig and a bunch of other republicans are demanding to go over his package in detail, no matter how long it is! They are even calling for secret locations in which to examine it.
Rush Limbaugh is what a smart person thinks a stupid bigot sounds like.
;)
I've never seen change without a fire
As soon as I saw that name, I had the same thought!
They've got a lot of pages to go through, and not of the paper variety. They sure do like going over packages in detail, don't they?
NOW they want to read it!
There's always free cheddar in the mousetrap, baby. - Tom Waits
throw up. How do I shut off the volume? I can't stand listening to this phony traitor.
Refresh the page. That'll shut it off.
By the way, nobody MADE you watch that. You've only yourself to blame if you don't like it.
There's always free cheddar in the mousetrap, baby. - Tom Waits
we feel your pain ditto.
the GOP has penis-envy?
insurance reform is better than single payer. I'm trying. But when Obama speaks of how wonderful this all is it still turns my stomach.
O.k. I'm glad it passed. And if anyone wants to say don't let the perfect be the enemy of the good... I understand. But, I've always been a type A perfectionist (I'll spare you the details).
Now, I understand being a type A perfecionist has it's down sides. I'm trying to explain how hard it is to accept a totally compromised solution. Damn, I guess I'll wrap my head around it.
I really enjoy this site and like the posters, please give me a break if I'm still disrespectful to the Pres. and the Dems. I just can't help it.
Perhaps I just don't understand incrementalism.
...incrementalism is not based in logic. Neither are politics. But its the way things have to get done. Now lets go to work on Grayson's bill.
We could have had incrementalism with a public option. 85% of Democrats wanted a public option or single payer; the ONLY REASON we don't have either is because Obama sold out the American people in exchange for campaign cash.
NY Times Reporter Confirms Obama Made Deal to Kill Public Option
on legislative bills, don't you?
It doesn't matter what we wanted. I've a single payer proponent from the beginning. So don't call me a sell out if I tell you that we barely got this weak tea sad ass bill by the skin of our teeth by the Congress.
We have to work with the Congress we got. We got the bill that Nancy Pelosi could whip the votes for. Now we start pushing to strengthen it.
Strengthen it? With what? CPR? It's been written to ensure that it cannot be strengthened by the cronies who infest our legislative branch.
How can you strenghten a bill with a legislative system that is controlled by the very interests that are against any progressive changes?
The people of privilege will always risk their complete destruction rather than surrender any material part of their advantage." J.K. Galbraith
to start...
Medicare didn't come out of the box a fully formed system. It underwent tweaks along the way. So with hcr.
this is a fully PRIVATIZED plan that gives more power to the PRIVATE companies. How do you expand upon a private plan??
Like a public option
Like regulating basic levels of health care and costs.
I have confidence that it will eventually become more progressive and more like the European single payer (which by the way, still has aspect of private plans to it).
as PUBLIC PLANS. "Having confidence" that a for-profit, privatized plan will somehow 'progress' into a non-profit, public plan means nothing - Especially in light of the fact that Obama has said that the latter is unAmerican. If anything, the sheer awfulness of this plan will lessen the trust in the Democrats and the government, while increasing the power of the insurance companies.
Obama will not be president forever. This is not a fell swoop thing.
Ask people of color if they feel the fight for civil rights is over.
I have confidence that as people come to rely on the safety net of health care being a right, that having for profit companies managing it will show itself as not workable. The first step is for a public option.
But if you want to have your little tantrum about how everything is terrible, don't let me stop you.
I, on the other hand, have a fight for good reform to continue.
you disagree with me? Maybe you better lighten up! BTW, 'tantrum' is a giveaway term.
Although if you accuse me one more time, I might ban you for being a pain in my ass on my site.
this is your site? I thought it was Johns? That is the problem I have with most progressives, they think that something that belongs to someone else is/should be theirs.
tantrum is an accurate term.
Watch it with that "censoring" bullshit, ok? Nobody here is forcing you to shut up. If you can't take some criticism for your opinions, that's your own lookout, but don't be throwing tantrums just because others disagree with you. That makes you the same as those Republicans you bitch about.
There's always free cheddar in the mousetrap, baby. - Tom Waits
.. and probably the biggest part of the way forward is electing more progressive senators and representatives ..
A few more Sanders, Graysons or Kucinichs (to name a few) would make a big difference.
Democracy is too important to be entrusted to politicians.
Rise Up!
Protest!
Before we even think about any more HC reform we need campaign finance reform. Then elect some true legislators. Then maybe the country can be saved.
The people of privilege will always risk their complete destruction rather than surrender any material part of their advantage." J.K. Galbraith
Won't stop me from fighting.
how to get out of America just in case campaign financing isn't reformed.
My wife is from Nicaragua. My brother lives in Thailand. My passport is up to date. But there is NFW I am caving yet.
The people of privilege will always risk their complete destruction rather than surrender any material part of their advantage." J.K. Galbraith
insurance and lots of dough.
Yes you need both...to live here.
The people of privilege will always risk their complete destruction rather than surrender any material part of their advantage." J.K. Galbraith
You can vote on legislative bills if you want to and have the means. Just a few years of premiums for health insurance for an average family buys you a vote with some of our reps. Don't see how democracy gets any more direct than that. Who's to say that "virtual" doesn't have that kind of scratch?
But sarcasm aside, and on to cynicism: it's well past time we got better organized "outbidding" our conservative "friends" (and I use that term in the Congressional sense). Until we get real campaign finance reform and end legalized bribery -- that just got worse with "Citizens United" -- we need to influence congress the way congress wants to be influenced. In the pocketbook.
It sounds dirty to me too, but I think we can add politics to love and war. Or maybe politics is war.
I guess I'm not nearly as patient as some, but we've been fighting this battle for a century now.
American culture has gotten to the point where every little thing must either be demonized as the end of the world, or celebrated as an historic event. As we slowly lose our influence and power in the world, we desperately want to believe that everything we do MEANS SOMETHING DAMMIT. So it's not surprising that Obama is acting as if this is the best thing since sliced bread.
There's always free cheddar in the mousetrap, baby. - Tom Waits
...he admitted there were problems with the bill. And remember that this is something that Dems have met utter failure with since LBJ was in office. So it kinda sorta is a really big deal and maybe even DOES mean something. Dammit.
I'm not hopeful, but if in a few years it turns out to have been a good thing, I'll be glad to see it as an accomplishment. Right now - meh. We'll see.
There's always free cheddar in the mousetrap, baby. - Tom Waits
You're not a perfectionist and this isn't a case of letting the perfect be the enemy of the good - more like letting the awful be the enemy of the horrific. This has nothing to do with being a perfectionist whatsoever; this is all about being a sellout.
Also, this isn't about 'incrementalism'; this is about moving the country in the WRONG DIRECTION, towards corporations calling the shots, privatization, profits above people, and the continued erosion of the American middle class and democracy, ably assisted by the sellout Democratic Party, who care more about their campaign coffers than the American people.
my friend, most of the Obama believers and apologists are over at Huff Post still hoping for "change" from the great one.
health care reform started. Now don't get cocky. There's a lot of work to do. In a decade I'll expect to be envious of American health care.
Hasa Diga Eebowai
has been one bumpy ride. And there's still more to go...
I've never seen change without a fire
and 1) don't have a pre-existing condition that will kill you by 2014 or 2) can afford to keep paying unregulated rates for another 10 years.
is Canadian. Odds are, he'll make it to 2014.
"Parachutes are allowed in checked or carry-on baggage, but may not be worn in flight."
---Southwest Airlines
chances are excellent he'll survive until then.
When they can't get their way, they throw very loud temper-tantrums. Every parent knows what giving in to that brings.
When want someone to side with them, they call them chicken, etc., unless they go against their own best interests and side with the GOP bullies. This leads to another predictable outcome.
Time to send the GOP to bed without supper!
having temper tantrums! I guess you don't have to worry about kicking the progressives at the moment, since they lost big tonight. But I'm sure the DLC/White House will be back attacking the progressives in a few days, calling them childish and crazy and what not; after all, they're more in tune with the Republicans than the progressives.
"Has anyone ever told you you're a buzzkill?"
sometimes I feel like road kill though!
The truth will set you free but can you handle the truth?
I give! You're more progressive than I could ever hope to be!
Don't try to confuse the issue with half-truths and gorilla dust.
you weren't talking to me
:P
me-oww!
Or impurity, whatever the case may be.
:P
Don't try to confuse the issue with half-truths and gorilla dust.
Loves ya, kid. :D
Don't try to confuse the issue with half-truths and gorilla dust.
I'm more of the librarian type, ready to explain what happens to one when one turns a book in late...
me-oww!
How delightful!
"Im a REAL progressive: Stab Me" sticker off your back. Not sure who put it there, but it adds to the ineffectuality of the cause.
"I mean Romney is the most conservative on illegal immigration and I don't think Ronald Reagan could get elected in California today."
Ann "Clipped" Coulter
Why a plug for his book, of course!
KarlRove
ICYMI: Didn't make a book signing? Autographed copies of Courage and Consequence available. April stops coming soon.
Two things Rove wouldn't recognize if they bit him in the ass.
There's always free cheddar in the mousetrap, baby. - Tom Waits
April never started coming. She's been faking it with you all along!
"Parachutes are allowed in checked or carry-on baggage, but may not be worn in flight."
---Southwest Airlines
you've got to be kidding me. the gop is hung up on the size of the hcr package?
no wonder the wingnuts always seem to walk around with bugs stuck up their bums.
they've never caught on that size really matters.
As if this day wasn't good enough...
NO MORE RUSH! NO MORE RUSH!
may he rest in pieces.
Kinda like Lush does.
I think Somalia is a much better new home for the turd.
"Parachutes are allowed in checked or carry-on baggage, but may not be worn in flight."
---Southwest Airlines
Hope somebody calls him out on not keeping it. Bastard.
We're not going to get very far if you keep injecting logic into the conversation!
asked him is he had his ticket.
“The greatest evildoers are those who don’t remember because they have never given thought to the matter, and, without remembrance, nothing can hold them back,”
all comments regarding single payer. Those dirty single payer advocates are worse than the truthers.
Cue the Kabuki....
Don't worry they ain't hurtin' nobody!
is deleting me. HALLO?? This is verging on censorship.
[What I'm verging on is banning you-Sitemonitor]
You do realize my post is a joke? Are you deleting his comment because he called me a troll (he was also joking!) Or because he equated progressiveness to incrementalist?
Cue the Kabuki....
I argued with her post above. CENSORSHIP! AngryGus, can you remember what I said? Maybe you can repost it? I am being censored.
You're whining about terms you don't even understand.
I warned you.
I did not delete you. I would rather debate than delete.
The site team felt you violated the terms of service (i.e. the commenting policy). I don't tell them to do their job.
However, since you've decided to keep accusing me, despite my continued attempts to engage you, I'm now banning you. You can come back when you've decided to stop being an ass.
being censored, the arguments you're talking about would have been deleted also.
and then: Incrementalism Forever!
I liked it! I laughed, I cried.... and I NEVER would have believed it would have been deleted!
BUT..it NOW appears that someone really did think you were a troll, calling me a troll....
Cue the Kabuki....
virtual can come back when he learns some manners.
I suggest you move on, AngryGus.
they are not too progressive for you?!
Cue the Kabuki....
Not learning any lessons, are we?
I am an unapologetic progressive. But this is not your site and you have to play by our rules.
Sorry, C-span drives me to drinkin'....and then.....THIS!
But, Please....! know that I love what you do. Thank you and good nite!
Cue the Kabuki....
He's being repressed. Come and see the violence inherent in the system.
Hasa Diga Eebowai
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dOOTKA0aGI0
Diabolus est Deus Inversus
comments; I got Nicole angry at me for arguing with her?
[Nope. You are being abusive. I deleted a comment above directed at you. You are welcome to disagree with posters and thread authors, but we won't allow personal insults and attacks. Realize how you've been behaving and don't accuse us of taking you down because you hold an opposing view; it's because you are being rude. And I am NOT Nicole-Sitemonitor]
period.
Cue the Kabuki....
than deletion.
"I mean Romney is the most conservative on illegal immigration and I don't think Ronald Reagan could get elected in California today."
Ann "Clipped" Coulter
Calling people names is a violation of our commenting policy, so the someone on the site team decided they had enough of you.
By the way, it might be helpful if you learn definitions before whining.
It is NOT censorship to ask you to conform to the TOS of a privately-owned site. It is censorship if the government keeps you from speaking. You're free to take your rant on your own site. Or maybe you can enjoy the gnashing of teeth taking place on FDL now.
TOS means agreeing with the pov of the site monitor?
( I suggest you read the Commenting Policy. That is, before you decide to start taking shots at the Site and the Site Monitors.
Here's to the new Health Insurance Force
So are we all going to receive the little form that instruct us on how to shop for coverage with the one provider in our area?
Oh that's right. Only one provider. I can't shop. I just have to buy.
Great buy-partisan effort ORahma.
but do any of you whiners have a clue after what you've seen today and what you've seen for the past year, really think that a single payer plan would have gotten anywhere with what the opposition has been pulling out all stops to try to stop this bill? My Gawd, wake the fuck up. The regressives want Obama to fail and they don't care if they take down America with him.
I see quite a bit of hatred on this site for the "opposition" to this current administration running our country. "Republicans are evil", "They hate America", and so on.
Has anyone with this mindset even bothered to look into the fact that Republicans have offered many alternatives, but are roundly ignored by the party in charge? Do some research, and stop relying on the mainstream media for a change. Most major news organizations support this administration, and can't be trusted.
There are TWO HUNDRED--count 'em, 200 Republican amendments to the bill.
Not one Republican vote.
Those 200 Republican amendments were necesarry to scale down what is still out of control. I believe Rep's and Dem's are equally guilty of srewing this coontry, but Conservatism is usually ignored by otherwise intelligent people.
Conservatism = less government, more individual freedom. Maybe one day we'll all be able to experience that, but it's not looking too good right now.
You had eight years to give us less government and you expanded it.
You took away individual freedom.
You drove this country economically into the ground.
Conservatism looks good on paper, doesn't work in practice.
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