Rep. Dan Goldman defended Israel’s position and called for more condemnation of Hamas to a somewhat skeptical Chris Hayes.

In this clip, Goldman responded to Hayes’ concern that at some point, Israel’s bombing of and devastation to Gaza can’t be supported. “Can you imagine coming to that point?” he asked Goldman.

Goldman repeatedly insisted that Israel must abide by international law, no matter what. But he also stressed that more attention and criticism should be leveled at other actors in the region, especially Hamas. “If Hamas doesn’t want its citizens or itself to die anymore, then it should turn over the hostages and it should surrender its weapons,” Goldman said. “No one is asking or calling on Hamas to do much of anything to help the Palestinian people,” He said that while Israel also has a responsibility, so do Egypt and Hamas.

Hamas “siphons off fuel and electricity, and food, and water from its own people and that is a very important aspect of this,” Goldman continued. The money goes to Hamas’ terror network and intricate tunnels where the hostages are being kept, he said, “and they’re now using the fuel and the electricity that is much needed by the civilians.”

“Why are we not talking about the fact that there are 240 hostages that they continue to hold?” Goldman asked. “This would be over a lot faster if Hamas would give over the hostages.”

Hayes replied that he agrees but we don’t live in a world where we have much sway over what Hamas does.

“Yeah, but we can't just accept that as a given and therefore put all the responsibility on Israel to do everything, many things that Hamas should be doing,” Goldman said.

Goldman reiterated the need for Israel to abide by laws of armed conflict and international humanitarian law. “I'm not saying Israel can do whatever it wants,” he added. But “if Hamas persuades the civilians to stay and not to evacuate areas that Israel has told them that they will be bombing, well, that's not Israel's fault.” He also said that Hamas’ “subhuman” lack of morality “has to also factor into the calculus.”

“So, when you are saying Israel has a right to defend itself but we need a cease fire, well, how are they able to then defend itself?” Goldman asked. Hamas started the war, he pointed out, so how can Israel defend itself if it can’t continue its military operation to get its hostages back?

“Certainly, no one said that after 9/11. No one said that after Pearl Harbor, and I think that's important to keep in mind,” Goldman concluded.

I have to say that this is not my opinion. But Goldman made excellent and well-reasoned points that I think worthy of everyone to hear and consider.