I thought this was an excellent point that a lot of people miss. The people who need to see Kamala Harris no longer watch establishment shows like Morning Joe, as Anand Giridharadas points out.

And that's why we see her seeking out popular podcasts.

"We were just saying off air one of the things someone said when I was coming up in journalism is, good interviews require friction," Giridharadas said.

"If it's two people just, you know, enjoying each other's ideas, it's pleasant but not necessarily entertaining to watch. Kamala Harris is a prosecutor. She spent a lot of her time coming up cross-examining people. I think some of her strongest moments before this presidential campaign were in those Senate hearings when she had hostile witnesses. And I think often what happens in politics as we know is, it's the people around you who want to kind of shrink wrap you when often candidates themselves are more fearless than the second- and third-tier staffers.

"I think it's great she has been out in a way she hasn't. In some ways there was a little bit of a kind of preserving the Biden reticence, which she's a different person than Biden. There is no need to protect her from the public in any form. And so being out there as she was in the last week is great, but it wasn't super frictional. It was just being out there. a great first step. I think the next wave is friction. She has done Fox News. Charlamagne Tha God is not necessarily a layup for her. I think Joe Rogan would be fantastic," he said.

"The reason why, going back to the earlier conversation we had, the people in America who don't believe anymore, don't believe not just in a particular candidate, don't believe things can change, don't believe in the system, don't believe this thing about voting, you know, transforming things, don't believe the prices are going to come down because of politicians -- those people, sad to say, often don't tune into a show like this because a show like this for them suggests a kind of belief in the system, a kind of establishment, a kind of faith that senators and congressmen are important people who should be listened to. Those people are listening to podcasts out there that style themselves outside the system, whatever the truth.

"Joe Rogan is a gazillionaire, so there is sometimes some issue with that portrayal. But those kinds of podcasts and other media forums cater to the people who don't believe."

Excellent point. When we sit here and say, "How can these people not know how bad Trump is?", it's because we don't all have the same media. And it's good that Harris is going to where those people are.