LEMON: Yes, and Donna -- and Wolf is going to jump in here, but just real quickly, I have to say, you know, Alex, you heard what Donna had to say, yet in the final hours, the House speaker was concerned about defense spending. And we didn't hear some of the points that Donna just brought up.

CASTELLANOS: Well, I don't think there's a great danger of civility breaking out in Washington any time soon...

(LAUGHTER)

CASTELLANOS: ... despite Senators McCain and Durbin's effort. But no, you know, something good has happened in all of this, and that is that we are talking not only about a serious issue like spending and the debt and are we going to spend ourselves along the path of Greece, but we're also talking about jobs and taxes, as I think these senators were just talking about.

I take exception a little bit to something Ali said, that we're not talking about jobs. That's all this debate has been about. No one's going to invest and create jobs in a country that's spending itself into insolvency. So the first thing you have to do is get some fiscal discipline. You know, if, Don, say some nice news network like CNN were going to hire you but you knew they were going bankrupt, it might affect your decision.

VELSHI: Alex! Alex! Alex!

CASTELLANOS: Spending and jobs and taxes...

VELSHI: We're not...

CASTELLANOS: ... we're now seeing a preview...

VELSHI: Alex!

CASTELLANOS: ... of the next...

VELSHI: Alex!

BLITZER: Go ahead, Ali.

VELSHI: Alex...

BRAZILE: There you go. Cut in.

VELSHI: ... what are you talking about? We're going bankrupt?

CASTELLANOS: Yes.

VELSHI: What are you -- come on! What are you talking about, Alex? We're not going bankrupt. America's never gone bankrupt. Greece can't issue bonds. America can. There was no question -- we have a AAA credit rating, Alex! We weren't close to bankrupt.

CASTELLANOS: Right.

VELSHI: This was an invention of fiscal conservatives.

CASTELLANOS: Absolutely true.

VELSHI: Jobs is the issue, Alex!

CASTELLANOS: And Greece -- and as you know, Ali, Greece had this decision 10 years ago, and they chose to keep on going along the same path. You know, everybody keeps saying, Gosh, we've raised the debt ceiling automatically here 60 times. There's no problem. That's the problem. We keep going up to the bar like it's routine. We're now having a debate that says we cannot continue spending more money than we take in...

VELSHI: Alex...

CASTELLANOS: ... and we have to do something about it.

(CROSSTALK)

LEMON: Ali and Alex, both hang on. Do you agree, Alex, that what Ali said, that this was an invention? This was an invention to get to this point by connecting the debt ceiling to the...

BRAZILE: Yes, this is manufactured.

LEMON: ... deficit?

CASTELLANOS: No, no, no, no.

VELSHI: We all agree on one thing...

CASTELLANOS: Economic stability...

(CROSSTALK)

LEMON: Let him answer, Ali, and then...

(CROSSTALK)

BRAZILE: No, Alex, this was manufactured.

LEMON: Go ahead, Alex.

CASTELLANOS: Ali -- Ali, here's something we can agree on. This is money.

VELSHI: Yes.

CASTELLANOS: The federal government can't spend any of this that it doesn't first take from someone else. We're now spending -- what, we're $14 trillion in the hole. The Democrats say the way to grow this economy is to keep doing that, keep stimulating the economy by...

BRAZILE: That's not what Democrats are saying, Alex.

CASTELLANOS: ... taking this money and sending it to Washington...

(CROSSTALK)

BRAZILE: That's not what we're saying.

CASTELLANOS: We're going to send it to Washington and then it's going to send it back to us.

LEMON: OK, Ali, go ahead.

(CROSSTALK)

CASTELLANOS: The way to grow this economy is to leave it in our pockets.

VELSHI: I think -- we're fully on the same side about the fact that jobs -- everybody has to have a job. Everybody doesn't have to have a house and everybody doesn't have to have a 401(k), but everybody has to have a job. I am not sure, Alex -- I would love for you to connect for me how this creates a job in America. You know, when we talk about companies staying on this sidelines, conservatives have been saying the reason companies don't hire is because there's uncertainty about taxes, there's uncertainty about health care. So now -- now I'm hearing that it was uncertainty about the debt ceiling. Companies will just use any excuse...

CASTELLANOS: No, no, no!

(CROSSTALK)

LEMON: I want to bring Donna in.