From Hardball April 16, 2009. Why oh why does Chris Matthews feel the need to keep bringing this man on his show. Tom DeLay defends Gov. Rick Perry's talk of secession for Texas and explains how it would work. Did Matthews actually expect anything else from this thug?

Matthews: You know Mr. DeLay all through the Bush administration the government money, the debt went rising and rising and rising. It went from something like four to seven trillion dollars to almost triple, double that rather and there wasn't this talk of secession or leaving the union or this incredible radical talk. Why is it coming now because we have a Democratic President?

DeLay: It comes all the time in the state of Texas. Texans are Texans and they fight for their sovereignty and fight for the Constitution of the United States. And every time the federal government mandates things from the state of Texas, the state of Texas is a huge donor state. We only get about seventy cents back for every dollar we send to the federal government. Now we're paying for a lot of this and the Americans, Texans are fed up with the government growing like it's growing. Uh, I tell you what the biggest skunk at the party is for someone to come into Austin. And we are absolutely fed up with what is going on as I think hundreds if not millions of people yesterday were expressing the exact same sentiment in these tea parties.

Matthews: You know that sounds like, you sound like some rebel leader in the sixties in the Congo in Katanga Province that produced all the mineral wealth for the country and wanted to secede from the Congo. I mean this idea that suppose maybe Texas does produce a lot of the wealth. A lot of states are wealthier than other states. They just are. Does that mean they should secede?

DeLay: Chris Texas is wealthy because it works hard. It's a pro-business state. It doesn't overtax its businesses and its citizens. It's no where near what California or New York or New Jersey that's losing businesses left and right. Losing jobs left and right. It ain't even close to what the rust belt is. We are a pro-business state. We love jobs. We love businesses to come to Texas. We will not overtax you. We don't have an income tax. We're, we're, that what people are coming to Texas is because of our ability and our penchant to fight for what we believe in and we're going to use every means possible, uh, legally to fight for our position and fight the Obama administration and the Democrat liberals Pelosi and Harry Reid in what they're attempting to do to this country and to the state of Texas.

Matthews: When you talk about the sovereignty of the state of Texas are you talking about nullification. What are you talking about? The right of the state to deny the role of the federal government. What right are you insisting on when you say sovereignty? Like it's an independent country again.

DeLay: It is an, it's an independent state.

Matthews: It is?

DeLay: And given many powers by the tenth amendment of the United States Constitution. The tenth amendment is violated every day in Washington DC and we're standing up and reminding the American people that the tenth amendment is strong and we're going to defend it and we're going to fight for it.

Matthews: So all powers not delegated to the federal government reside in the states. Right?

DeLay: That's exactly right and we ought to return to that Constitution.