DAVID GREGORY: Jim DeMint, your reaction to what's played out in Texas, and State Senator Davis' comments?

FMR. SEN. JIM DEMINT: David, cases like the Philadelphia abortionist Kermit Gosnell--

DAVID GREGORY: Gosnell, yeah.

FMR. SEN. JIM DEMINT: --that shows the horrendous conditions in these clinics that have actually killed women. I mean, if we're talking about women's health, we need to consider that. But now two-thirds of Americans believe that, after a baby's heart is beating and they can feel pain, that they need some protection.

So I'm glad to see a lot of states, like Texas and Arkansas, begin to consider this. And the more the ultrasounds have become part of the law, where a woman gets the opportunity to see that there's a real child, it's beginning to change minds. And I think that's a good thing. It's time that the 3,000 babies we lose every day have some people speaking up for them.

RACHEL MADDOW: Women don't get the opportunity with ultrasound. The ultrasound bills are mandated by the state. So if a woman does not want an ultrasound, or if her doctor does not want her to have an ultrasound, if that ultrasound is not medically indicated the state government is stepping in and saying, "You must have this ultrasound by order of the state government."

And because of the timing on a lot of these, in a lot of these what is being mandated is a vaginal ultrasound. So it's an invasive vaginal forced procedure that a woman cannot say no to, by order of the state government. And that is all right with you. I understand that you feel that you've got an interest strong enough to override a woman's desire to not have the happen to her that you can insist that it does, as a legislator.

But most American women, I think, are gonna balk at that. And if you want to make it a federal issue, I say that the Democrats are going to be delighted to have that fight. But as Republicans push this further and further and further, it's the Wendy Davises of the world that are going to force you to make your argument--

DAVID GREGORY: Well, ok--

FMR. SEN. JIM DEMINT: She's forgetting about the thousands of women who want an informed choice, who want the opportunity--

RACHEL MADDOW: But a choice.

FMR. SEN. JIM DEMINT: --to get a free ultrasound, which they can get, not from Planned Parenthood--

RACHEL MADDOW: It’s not free--

FMR. SEN. JIM DEMINT: --but from a lot of these pregnancy centers--

RACHEL MADDOW: It’s not a choice. It's a mandated procedure--

FMR. SEN. JIM DEMINT: It is free in many cases; all the ones I'm familiar with--

RACHEL MADDOW: The one instance-- it would not be, women would be forced to pay for it.

RALPH REED: --women's right-to-know laws are supported by the overwhelming majority, not just of men, but of women, and 70% of the American people favor bans on abortion after the 20th week--

RACHEL MADDOW: So you think women--

RALPH REED: --late term abortions.

RACHEL MADDOW: --should be forced to have an ultrasound if they don't want one?

RALPH REED: I think that should be litigated at the state level. In some states, they've done it. In Virginia, they decided not to.

DAVID GREGORY: All right--

RALPH REED: I think that's a matter of prudential judgment by the state legislators--

RACHEL MADDOW: Wow--

DAVID GREGORY: I-- I gotta get a break in here, even as the debate continues. Back in a moment.