Another wingnut pandering to the base - gee what were the chances of THAT?

Rudy's top fundraiser sole backer of California electoral vote initiative

Wonder if this will get as much play as Hsu? Ha!

I used to have a lot of respect for Senator McCain. I used to think that he would have made a good president in 2000, even for a Republican. I was even going to vote for him, if had secured the nomination.

Fast forward to the election of 2004 and I lost all respect for Senator McCain. Instead of fully supporting his good friend, Senator Kerry, when his friend's patriotism and service was under attack, he remained silent. Then, he campaigned for President Bush. At that time, I knew that Senator McCain had sold his soul to the devil.

In 2006, Senator McCain chose to "show" that he was tacking to the theocratic right by announcing his support of the Arizona voter initiative to ban recognition of not only gay marriage, but also domestic partnerships within the state. Luckily the voters of Arizona (including me) voted down this atrocious "initiative".

Now its 2007 and Senator McCain declares that the Constitution (everyone remembers this fantastic document, right?) somehow proclaims that we are a Christian nation? Please, could someone point to the clause of the Constitution that states this? Could someone show me where Christianity (in its many forms) is the official religion of the United States of America?

I think Senator McCain needs to withdraw from public life and allow those who truly understand what our Constitution means to be our leaders.

PLease stop giving this "tool" a platform. Youre pandering just like they are. HE IS NOT IMPORTANT. HIS IS AN IRRELEVANT WALKING DEAD MAN. STOP IT C&L. NO ONE NEEDS TO HEAR FROM MCCAIN.

I'd actually like to see Obama elected as president....just because of the Muslim thing....

He is SUCH a LIAR!!

This just goes to show that not everyone who has worn a uniform deserves respect. Yes, he was a pilot who got shot down in Vietnam and spent a long time as a POW. That much I have respect for but the uniform does not bestow some magical aura of respect for the rest of your life and when someone uses that military experience from thirty years ago like some sort of shield to deflect criticism it lessens their military service. Jimmy Carter was a submarine commander in WWII but he never made that the center piece of his campaign. Bush I got shot down by the Japanese in WWII as a pilot and he could have easily used it as a platform to show his patriotism but he didn't.

Jesus was Middle Eastern and spoke Aramaic. So, McCain is going to tell me that Christianity is as American as American pie, cheeseburgers and muscle cars?

It is so sad to me that 200+ years ago, our nation’s leaders were actually more enlightened than they are now…as the old Robin Williams joke goes, maybe Darwin was wrong.

Are we not men? We are Devo!

Gee, it's so nice to see a presidential candidate so well versed with the Constitution, Bill of Rights and the Treaty of Tripoli.

We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America."

No Christianity mentioned there, no siree!

Bill of Rights:
Amendment I
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

Lookit! No Christianity mentioned here either!

Now for the kicker!

Treaty of Tripoli:
Article 11
"As the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion; as it has in itself no character of enmity against the laws, religion, or tranquility, of Mussulmen; and, as the said States never entered into any war, or act of hostility against any Mahometan nation, it is declared by the parties, that no pretext arising from religious opinions, shall ever produce an interruption of the harmony existing between the two countries."

Maybe we should send copies of said documents to McCain and every other right wing fundie candidate.

Presidents are preordained by God and are therefore infalible.

No, wait, that's the Pope.

I think...

19 Nowonmai

Excellent synopsis.

It's too late - the religious-right in this country has already done the damage. Our nation is but one small step away from a full-fledged theocracy wherein only white, MALE, heterosexual, Christian/Republicans will have first-class citizenship. The rest of us (women, atheists, liberals, gays, non-whites, Jews/Muslims/etc.) will be placed in ghettos and shtetls, if not worse.

DaveInRhodeIsland @ 25:

It's too late - the religious-right in this country has already done the damage. Our nation is but one small step away from a full-fledged theocracy wherein only white, MALE, heterosexual, Christian/Republicans will have first-class citizenship. The rest of us (women, atheists, liberals, gays, non-whites, Jews/Muslims/etc.) will be placed in ghettos and shtetls, if not worse.

That sounds like a lot of work. Why move us around when we are so efficient at keeping them living in the style to which they have become accostomed?

A few years ago John McCain was more enlightened. Like Phoenix Justice above, I would have had a tough decision last time around if he had been nominated and run against Al Gore. My faith is very, very important to me. But we see every day in the Middle East what happens when religious leaders gain power. Keep the church and the state separate. Just as he embraced Bush, McCain is now embracing the fanatical religious right. His straight-talk express has derailed. But he's not the only one on either the Republican or Democratic side to swallow his core beliefs to get the prize. And evidently deception is what it takes to be elected. Sad.

funny, i was just watching the Dawkins' god delusion on TV Links. How lame does McCain have to get before he is so pathetic you guys can just ignore him.

rend @ 31:

funny, i was just watching the Dawkins' god delusion on TV Links. How lame does McCain have to get before he is so pathetic you guys can just ignore him.

The lamer and more pathetic he gets, the crazier and more outrageous he gets. It's a vicious circle. Wouldn't miss it for the world.

We don't really have to worry about becoming a Theocracy. Every President ever elected (or appointed) has been a Christian. Billy Graham has prayed with (given counsel to) every President since Truman. We have God on our side in every war. God is invoked in disasters, cerimonies and speeches by Media Pundits, candidates for office and elected officials. Candidates are asked what their favorite bible verse is during debates.

As i said, we don't have to worry about becoming a Theocracy.

I won't respect this country again until an admitted atheist gets elected into a (higher) public office.

btw, Muslim bashing gets you political points, anything else gets you kicked out of politics. Imagine if McCain said that some one of another religion (say, Mormonism) becoming president would make him uncomfortable.

[McCain]reveals that he wouldn’t undergo a full-immersion baptism until his presidential campaign is over.

Which, thankfully, should occur fairly soon.

trev @ 7:

PLease stop giving this "tool" a platform. Youre pandering just like they are. HE IS NOT IMPORTANT. HIS IS AN IRRELEVANT WALKING DEAD MAN. STOP IT C&L. NO ONE NEEDS TO HEAR FROM MCCAIN.

Everyone deserves a platform, that is what the First Amendment is all about. Even if you are McCain and your message is decidedly anti-Constitutional. C&L is one of the few forums that this policy is very clear on. Most of us here don't like McCain and know that he is an irrelevant numbskull and that is the point that we (C&L and readership) need to remember. This is what the First Amendment is all about. Until McCain is locked up as the certifiable lunatic that he may very well be, he has the right to voice his opinion and be heard. I hope that the day never comes that we no longer have that option. He will never get elected so he is not a threat for us. But he is an amusing distraction for the other side, isn't he? The neocons are beginning to feel the full weight of our strength! That only means that we have to keep pushing them off of the edge of the cliff and let gravity take over. They choose not to believe in evolution, gravity and a round Earth so it is only a matter of time until their beliefs go the way of Baal, Zeus, and all the others.

In 2000, I had those good thoughts about McCain, too. The press did a good job of displaying his "good" side. I said I liked him (even though I would never have voted for him) to a republican friend (active in repub politics and I was trying to extend an olive branch). I don't remember his exact words, but he said McCain was an evil, deranged f*&%#. I was surprised at the time, but obviously, no more.

He would be an absolute danger to this country, all of them are bad but McCain is bad and scarey.

John McCain,

It's time for you to retire. You've become a caricature of yourself. You've degraded yourself so deeply, that it is embarrassing to watch you or listen to you. There was a time when I thought you had too much on the ball to indulge so readily in such willful ignorance. No longer. Now, you just appear to be demented - and that's on a good day. It's pathetic. Spare whatever dignity you still possess and just go away gracefully.

I'm not sure which is worse...McCain losing his soul or losing his mind.

McCain is beginning to make me believe that he shouldn't be voted for Senator, much less President. How can he defend the Constitution if he doesn't understand it?

Gee and the Native Americans say that a lot of it is based on the Iroquois Confederacy

I guess where the
Iroquios mentioned women, where the Consititution did not, is where the Christian nation meme fits it.

How about this "I will vote for no one who wears their religion on their sleeve."

I don't trust them, and actually these "religious" people have turned me away from religion, any religion. And specifically have caused me to have an almost knee jerk dislike for anything Chirstian, even the mention of the name "Jesus." (I'm fine when it is said in Spanish) . . . funny thing is, before 2001, I didn't have this disgust and dislike for Christians and their religion - I was even kind when they came to my door. . . now I read them the riot act, I actively avoid those wearing a cross or any establishment that looks Christian, etc.

I wonder how many people like me have been turned from "Live in let live. I respect you and your faith" to anti Chirstian in the past 5 years.

His plan to win over the ultra reich wing cult leaders involves many meetings in mens room stalls.

Robin Williams is a notorious joke lifter. That line originally came from Mort Sahl.

"There were four million people in the American Colonies and we had Jefferson and Franklin. Now we have over 200 million and the two top guys are Clinton and Dole. What can you draw from this? Darwin was wrong!"

-Mort Sahl, 1996

Darwin might have been wrong, but don't forget, Republicans have the nasty habit of saying something is true about government, getting into government, making that something happen and then going "see, told you it was true." Perhaps they're expanding on that approach and trying to act like we, as a society, are getting dumber (i.e. de-evolving? not sure what going in reverse evolution would be called) instead of getting smarter as time moves on. Then they can say "hey, if Darwin was right, why are we worse off overall now than we were years ago"?

Too cynical maybe?

Buh Bye, John.

I do not understand the argument of Christian fundamentalists on this issue. When cornered, they'll say, 'well the founders were Christians, so even if they didn't expressly say it, the country was founded on Christian principles'.

Well the guy who invented VX nerve gas was a Christian, too. Is *that* founded on Christian principles?

McCain should resign from the Senate for the Genocide in Iraq, along with Clinton, Biden, and Dodd, nevermind running for POTUS!

I looked at the videos of McCain and read Beliefnet's partial transcripts and I have to say they cleaned him up MIGHTILY. It's McCain's hesitations and changes that really reveal his stupidity and his weaselage. Made me go through and type out most of the entire thing. It's on blog at Wondermachine. The full transcript really show's his idiocy. It's as if he's an elementary school kid who forgot the oral report was due and had to stand in front of the class and pull stuff out of his ass.
The funniest (or saddest depending on your take) part is McCain's quoting Emma Lazarus' "New Colossus" poem to argue the founding father's Christianity. Who knew Emma Lazarus was a founding father? It's just breathtakingly stupid.

John McCain: I Cannot Read or Understand Simple English.

There, I fixed your headline.

steve davis @ 6:

Uhm, excuse me, Anglican here. How the hell does someone who claims to be an Episcopalian undergo a "full-immersion" baptism? That has to be the most heretical thing I've ever heard of a politician doing. I'm assuming if he's in an orthodox Christian church, he's undergone baptism as a child. You don't go through that twice, not under ANY circumstances. That would be like having a second circumcision.

Sounds good for his scond choice, third choice, etc until his voice is real high.

McCain said:
But I think the number one issue people should make [in the] selection of the President of the United States is, 'Will this person carry on in the Judeo Christian principled tradition that has made this nation the greatest experiment in the history of mankind?'"

People like him must hate the Constitution. I do not believe for a second that they are ignorant of what is written in it. They just have a fun time bastardizing it because the ignorant masses know no better.

wanda gag @ 48:

I keep looking for references in my Bible to Republics, Democracy, etc... I think these things may have Roman and Pagan roots. Christians throughout history have prefered monachy and despotism.

Hey, wait a dang minute. I thought America invented Christianity and democracy.

I blogged about not filling kids heads with the idea that anyone could be president if they were not white, Christian and male in January http://orestia.blogspot.com/2007/01/you-too-can-grow-up-to-be-president....

AF_Comm_Guy @ 13:

Jimmy Carter was a submarine commander in WWII but he never made that the center piece of his campaign.

Carter graduated from the Naval Academy in 1946, he never saw WWII service. He was, however, selected by Adm. Rickover to be one of the first commanders of the new nuclear subs. Carter's naval career was marked by dedication and excellence.

he is a sad, sad, pathetic man...

IMO, it's not really a stretch to think that the greatest propagandists of the last half century claim that America was founded by Christian men, for Christian men. It makes logical sense in the context of the Catholic church or the Church of England as the state itself. It's not a stretch to understand that if you want the most organized and loyal voting bloc in America to vote for you, that you'd propagate that claim ... a claim that is by no means a new phenomenon.

Yes, that claim is bullshit. Had that been what the founders explicitly meant, then that is what they would have written. But to their credit, they left much to interpretation by design.

So I am not confused by commenters assertion that this kind of pandering bullshit is pathetic. I'm a little confused at what seems to be surprise and disbelief that a sellout like McCain would use this old standard. There are tens of millions of Americans that believe exactly what he said. This assertion is old hat; it's been used for as long as I can remember.

I too used to respect McCain ... until he let Karl Rove and GWB ass rape him in 2000, only to roll over and stick his tongue in their mouths. He is irrelevant. He's done. He knows this. Why not just retire and enjoy the last 10 or so years of his life? Megalomania, that's why. It's prevelant in all politicians. It's what makes Newt Gingrich actually think that he could float the possiblity of running for president. It's also, sadly, what makes politicians successful and rich. 99.9% of politicians don't succeed unless they are rich. Rich people don't get rich by being wonderful people. They get rich by making you wax poetic about how they just ass raped you. (I said 99.9% just to make the Kucinich people happy)

The Constitution is a tool to these Repugnants It shore as hell doesn't bother them to eavesdrop spy or torture not to mention suspend habeas corpus As I remember it the Constitution guarantees freedom of religion that implies freedom from religion as well and dictates the separation of church and state Am I wrong trolls

McCain is famous for his bad temper and rudeness. Who else would have gotten in trouble for a joke? "Why is Chelsea Clinton so ugly?" Yeah, McCain fits in perfectly with the Xians.

Try as he might, John McFlip-Flop will NEVER be the GOP's nominee...if for no ther reason than the sad but obvious fact that he's too old and simply losing it! (Otherwise, the lack of character itself wouldn't be an impediment to the mouth-breathers!)