Open Thread
By bluegal Thursday Dec 06, 2007 10:30pm
Dream for President Bush (excerpt) by Colleen Redman
I want President Bush to have a dream
like the one that Ebenezer Scrooge had
I want him to be visited by the ghosts of Iraqi children
who cry out, "But mankind was your business."...
I want President Bush to be haunted
by the ghosts of our Founding Fathers
until he learns this lesson:
that killing civilians is a terrorist act
and pre-emptive strike is invasion...
If President Bush doesn't have a real dream soon
he should step aside for those who do
He should impeach himself
and ask for forgiveness
for imposing his nightmare on the world...
Excerpted from here (The entire poem and its context are highly recommended). Darkblack made the image above specifically for this post at my request. Thanks hon you're the best.
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GREAT!
heh...
bush is in bed with cheney having their "dream" the destruction of the United States on all levels.
bit over the top wouldn't you say?
BUSH GIVES OUT WRONG HOTLINE # FOR MORTGAGE HELP — REFERS HOMEOWNERS TO ‘DIE-TECH’
but how is mitt romney like groucho marx?
Yes.
"A Christmas Carol" was a short story by Dickens.
But it has resonated for over a century.
It surely applies to the lawless, greedy Bush clan.
Remember the children. Christmas.
kudos to Colleen Redman
The USA has killed about 500,000 innocent civilians that have nothing to with in response of 9/11 in which we lost 3,000 that day.
Kind of put the terrorist perspective a bit bleak.
paranoia @ 8:
Isn't this the truth?
It just sickens me to think about the destruction this administration and its supporters have done to human life and the world.
The only thing the republicans can focus on is how religious they are. Meanwhile, their party's hands are slimed with blood.
I can't stand it anymore.
paranoia @ 8:
Actually, latest estimate is 1,129,698.
Good image. I agree. Bush is an idiot and I imagine his dreams still include Jeff Gannon from time to time. Other than that I can't believe we've allowed our election system to be taken over by private corporations who own, privately run, and keep secret their proprietary software. What has happened to this country and can we get it back??? www.stopbigmedia.com
Too bad this performance and story illuminate how much worse off we all are now. Scrooge looks positively human in comparison, even in his monstrous first dialogs before he is haunted into rediscovering his humanity.
GEORGE C SCOTT-SCROOGE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4FYVrSpda9U
Bush & Cheney.
Marley & Scrooge.
Bill O'Reilly would call us America haters.
But he's an odd one.
He loves the early Scrooge.
Before Scrooge became a Democrat.
xoites defends Constitution @ 10:
Yeah xoites, I've heard estimates more around that level as well.
Also important to note that more Americans 3,886 have died in Iraq than from the attacks of September 11, 2001 (Goulianni's "birthday.")
whizkid @ 13:
Not seeing many Democrats rising to the occasion.
A Right Wing Troll will come on here and complain that we never criticize the Democrats. What that Troll wants us to complain about is their unpatriotic behavior in criticizing the President.
The fact is we do complain about their unpatriotic behavior; in refusing to impeach the President.
Anyone out there notice that the real unreported story was the Corporate Media is reporting on the destroyed CIA tapes of interogation?
It is the first time they have seemed to notice something is wrong.
Little mistake. Killing civilians isn't necessarily terrorism. Killing non-combatants is (plus other qualifiers). Surprisingly big difference. I hate it when liberals use words for solely prejudicial value, negating their actual meaning. Remember liberals are the smart, reasonable, and rational citizens; Republicans are the idiots (among many other things), act accordingly.
Will the Pentagon go to war w/ Iran in spite of
the NIE findings? A Marine gets charged with murder
in regard to Fallujah. Most of the Blackwater perps are getting immunity.
Who's afraid of ghosts when you talk to God on a regular basis?
And have the largest security detail in the world.
And a gargoyle for a wife.
He ain't afraid of no ghosts.
Patrick @ 19:
How is this?
KILLING IS WRONG!
Is that good enough?
Whoa that's kind of weird.
"ain't" doesn't come up on spell check anymore as a mistake. Did that goddam whitehouse hick have something to do with that?
It sure looks like the willard(rat-faced) "mitt" romney speech has backfired catastrophically because - Huckabee Opens 22 Point Lead In Iowa
curtilingus @ 21:
Ebaneezer Scrooge had a conscience and was not a sociopath. That helped a lot.
Patrick @ 19:
so you parse the verbiage associated with the murder of innocent people?
what the fuck is wrong with you?
CoIntelPro @ 24:
Given a choice between Gulliani, Hukabee and Romney i would choose exile.
CoIntelPro @ 26:
It is possible he is a Pod Person.
Unfortunately modern day scrooges are so much more wealthy that they have insulated themselves from consequences, Karma and other forces that used to keep them in line. Bad guys finish first in our society.
I read the cover of a book titled "In Defense of Elitism". It really made me sick to know people still think like that. like there is a small class of people who are self chosen to dominate and haplessly guide the other 95% of society.
xoites defends Constitution @ 18:
that was leaked to draw attention away from the loud blatant lies boosh inc is continuing to try to spread about Iran, even after the embarassing NIE was released over the objections of the dick.
Pentagon Cover Up
15,000 or More US Deaths in Iraq War?
The Pentagon was covering up the real magnitude of the "suicide epidemic". Following an exhaustive investigation of veterans' suicide data collected from 45 states; CBS discovered that in 2005 alone "there were at least 6,256 among those who served in the armed forces. That's 120 each and every week in just one year."
That is not a typo. Active and retired military personnel, mostly young veterans between the ages of 20 to 24, are returning from combat and killing themselves in record numbers. We can assume that "multiple-tours of duty" in a war-zone have precipitated a mental health crisis of which the public is entirely unaware and which the Pentagon is in total denial.
If we add the 6,256 suicide victims from 2005 to the "official" 3,865 reported combat casualties; we get a sum of 10,121. Even a low-ball estimate of similar 2004 and 2006 suicide figures, would mean that the total number of US casualties from the Iraq war now exceed 15,000.
That's right; 15,000 dead US servicemen and women in a war that--as yet--has no legal or moral justification.
CBS interviewed Dr. Ira Katz, the head of mental health at the Department of Veteran Affairs. Katz attempted to minimize the surge in veteran suicides saying, "There is no epidemic of suicide in the VA, but suicide is a major problem."
Welcome to America. Where the worst candidates rise to the top.
xoites defends Constitution @ 27:
:lol:
Patrick @ 19:
Who said that killing civilians is, by definition, terrorism?
I see only a post that comments that comparing the death tally of 9/11 to that in our war of choice "put[s] the terrorist perspective a little bleak." I would take that as a condemnation of the arguments that we are fighting terrorism in Iraq, that we have the moral high ground in this war, and that terrorism is really the biggest threat the world faces.
CoIntelPro @ 30:
The daily kos had an article that speculated the tapes were destroyed not to protect the torturers from prosecution, but to destroy evidence that was revealed of the Saudis and the Pakistani's being behind 911.
Freya @ 31:
So the actual military death toll is more like 19,000!
mitch mcconnel could play the deranged vagabon whos caught giveing xmass blow jobs at scrooges christmass parys, who better for the part!
CoIntelPro @ 36:
It's a horrific thought. But there is really now way to say that it isn't far more than that. I live in L.A. and there are parks there that have been well known throughout the years as havens for homeless Vietnam veterans. Lately, the folks there look like they are baby faced children who are so disturbed the police are cracking down. It's just wrong what is going on here.
And the other part of it is a lot of these homeless vets do not even speak English. This is because one of the big offerings to fill the void of people who would be willing to enlist was that they would get citizenship for their families.
I am not in L.A. currently but a friend of mine just told me that a 26 year old native Guatemalan man hung himself from a tree.
There was nothing in the paper.
Bush has no chance of a Scrooge-like redemption. That would require some iota of compassion and you'd be hard pressed to find any evidence of that in his pitch black soul.
curtilingus @ 35:
the redacted pages of the 9/11 commission report already connect the saudis to 9/11. my bet is that those tapes were made in places like saudi arabia and pakistan because, as our 'allies' they likely provided places to rendition and some of the 6-9,000 people we had no room for in guantanamo. but that's just me.
The poem reminds me of my own thoughts in 2002. I couldn't have put it in better words.
To correct what I said above, the young man who hung himself did so in a park that is right off Hollywood Blvd. where it is common to find rusty or discarded wheelchairs from those pesky Vietnam vets.
His dog tags identified him. But no family stepped forward to claim the body. Hopefully an anxious someone will find him. Otherwise, I'm not sure what the procedures are for vets with nothing on their bodies when they off themselves.
I am still trying to find a rational argument i can agree with that justifies killing anybody. I can understand (although i do not agree with) someone killing in a violent rage under extenuating circumstances, but i think it is wrong. The death penalty makes no sense. War is merely the prelude to the next war and only the war profiteers win and plot the next war.
If the Palestinians had started a non violent movement in 1948 their situation would have been resolved by now.
On the other hand war is not the only thing that kills. Poverty is violence. Take a person's land, job, stability and push him out and you kill that person.
The fighting over resources is at the root of the world's problems. One day the resourses will be gone and we will just all dry up and blow away in the wind accomplishing nothing. In my opinion this is the logical conclusion of Capitalism. It may have its innovations but only if someone can make a buck on those innovations. You have to make a buck to survive because Capitalism is dog eat dog. Murder is dog eat dog.
Will we ever get beyond this stone aged economic system?
Freya @ 42:
The reamains of indigent people in the US and most countries are cremated and buried in common unmarked graves.
Xoites -
> ... The death penalty makes no sense. ...
Yeah, it's a two wrongs make a right thing and of course the old saying says the opposite ...
Oh Xoites, I agree on some level BUT I REALLY DISAGREE ON SO MANY LEVELS SINCE THEN.
i'M Apologizing for you, my friend. You are too slight in you observations and I am filled with your antiipatory thoughts on everything. WRITE!!
xoites defends Constitution @ 43:
Ever? As in, under no circumstances is it right to take a human life? Or have I hyper-extended your statement?
Just asking. ;)
xoites defends Constitution @ 43:
We can onlt hope and pray. I know you are not into praying, but I hope I can change your mind.
Ever.
xoites defends Constitution @ 49:
So, killing in self defense, when killing is the only option is unjust? The just thing to do is to let yourself be killed?
Change my mind about what? That killing is wrong?
xoites defends Constitution @ 51:
About praying.
Karen @ 50:
There are often many alternatives to killing to keep someone from killing you. I have had three people try to kill me in my life and (maybe i was lucky or maybe i refused to kill) i was able to keep them from killing me and not only did i not kill them i did not even hurt them.
A very good friend of mine just send me an email telling to back off this situation for a day or two until it's figured out properly
OK, so figure it out.
Look, Bush is a sociopath. He has no conscience, he's not going to emphasize with the people he's harmed. Frankly he sees no value in having a conscience at all. He thinks *we're* the broken ones for considering the feelings and thoughts of others.
I like the poem. It's good and correct but frankly it's wasted on George Bush. The only thing he understands is force and control. He needs to be in a jail cell.
Nothing else will do.
Ron @ 52:
Ron, my friend, right now i am praying you someday become an athiest.
If I believed in a supposed God, I'd probably pray that I wouldn't ever have to kill anybody.
Hey Karen (check out my new blog if you care to, click on my name), LTNS.
xoites defends Constitution @ 53:
I don't disagree that there are more options than many would care to admit. But that was why I put it to you expressly that killing was the only option in the hypothetical. You were, after all, seeking an argument to justify killing. Self defense or defense of others is what generally comes to mind, and even the law requires that deadly force be the only option before it accepts the justification.
So, regardless of the options available in various situations, do you agree with the precept that it is justified to kill in self defense if, indeed, it is genuinely a kill or be killed situation?
xoites defends Constitution @ 56:
Never happen. Why would I give up to a nothing situation. If I'm right and you are wrong, who wins. If I'm wrong nobody wins.
Stanley Rosenthal @ 57:
Nifty, Stan! I like the headline banner graphic of the tunnel. :)
Karen @ 58:
For me, personally i would say no. Then again, i know myself very well. I have a survival instinct like nobody's business. In a situation where i feel threatened almost anything could happen.
But if you do not stop to consider that there may be alterntives to killing someone to stay alive well before the situation ever comes up you will not have time to consider them during a crisis.
Ron @ 59:
A version of Pascal's wager, I take it? There are plenty of already well-known retorts to that argument, but I'll offer one not generally included:
What do I lose if I just believe in a god? My integrity; my right and ability to think for myself, and not to live in fear of displeasing that god; my rationality; my ability to conduct my own gut-wrenching processes of moral reasoning free from the dogma that deity would impose upon me; my appreciation of my life and the lives of others to the fullest recognizing that it is we -- not the deity -- who matter most.
Life is not "a nothing situation" as an atheist. Atheism is not nihilism. Free your mind, and gain the world. And, as Julia Sweeney says, "If this is all there is, everything on Earth means more, not less." (paraphrase)
Karen @ 62:
To that i would just like to add that our planet would be in much better shape if people would stop waiting for a reward in heaven and start creating a heaven on earth.
xoites defends Constitution @ 61:
Karen @ 62:
Just to let you know, I don't belong to any formal religion. I do my praying at home in my own privacy. You can still believe, but you don't have to belong to a church. You are better off not to.
The end result of life is death. I do not wish to hasten death for anyone.
I used to wish i would die in my sleep. Now i wish the opposite. I want to be wide awake and experience my death fully. We only get to experience it once and i don't intend to miss it.
At the moment of my death i want to go with the clearest conscience i can have. I really do not want to live knowing someone died at my hands.
revulver @ 3:
Nope. It's dead-on.
bush is the one who pumped his fist and declared "Feel good!" as the bombs first dropped on Baghdad, a city where over 50 percent of the population was under the age of 15.
Nightmare, indeed, that freak has unleashed so much horror in this world.
Grr. Friggen formatting.
xoites defends Constitution @ 61:
Heh, if you surrendered to your survival instinct, it would probably be considered a bona fide “excuse,” not a “justification.” :)
Again, I don’t disagree with that, but somehow it doesn’t seem right to me to rule out the possibility of killing every being the right thing.
Suppose the Bush Administration declares martial law arbitrarily, and invades your home town with the U.S. Army. People are being indiscriminately killed around you. Certainly, with your training, you might avoid having to kill someone to save your own life in individual fights. But it might prove difficult to avoid killing some soldiers in order to save the lives of some of your neighbors (assuming you are so inclined). After all, you could probably incapacitate someone only for so long, before he was up again, resuming his actions while you were incapacitating yet another soldier.
Moreover, I would be interested in precisely how sacred you consider human life. (That’s not as callous as it sounds.) For instance, we know that lowering the speed limit would save many lives every year. How low should it go? Especially knowing that you could always save more lives by setting it lower?
Ron @ 65:
Arrighty. That doesn't really change any of my stances, though.
So, let me ask you -- and please understand, I'm just having a civil discussion, and that nothing is meant as an insult (these conversations can get emotional and heated) -- why do you believe in a deity?
Karen @ 68:
Our governer here in California faced that situation Karen. With people being killed all around him, a child's ethics required him to think differentlyy, so he shot the bad guys in the knee caps.
Shoot them in their knee caps xoites. Shoot them in their knee caps.
Karen @ 69:
Why shouldn't I. Why do you not?
So many deities, so little time.
To the first part of your question: If the shit hits the fan like that i am a murderer for failing to stop it from ever happening. I am a sharpshooter but fired my last shot in 1974. Hypothetical situations are impossible to answer rationally. The details of what can and can not be done will occur under the circumstances. In other words, you place a distinct "this or that" choice when other solutions may arise such as helping hundreds escape unharmed a oppossed to killing a few out of a thousand soldiers, being killed and helping noone escape.
Second question: I drive for a living. 100,000 miles a year. It is not the speed limit that is killing people. It is out and out self centered rudeness. Put the speed limit at 10 miles an hour and people will shoot their way into work.
Mass transit is the only real solution to highway deaths.
Ron @ 71:
I'm a skeptic. I default to disbelief where I have no evidence in support of a proposition. I do not see any good evidence for the existence of a god, but am always willing to be shown.
It is you making that claim that there is one. You bear the burden of proving it.
Again, I apologize if any of this sounds insulting. It's really not supposed to be. Just a discussion.
Karen @ 74:
I don't have to prove anything. You have to find out for youself.
We are not "going to hell in a handbasket"....we have arrived
gramamimi @ 77:
And yet we are just a few short steps from being any where else instead.
xoites defends Constitution @ 73:
A murderer? I would object to that word. You're likely doing what you can to stop that from happening right now. You just might fail. Doesn't make you a murderer.
Well, if you are saying that they hypothetical situations are impossible to answer, it would seem that you have conceded that it just might be the right thing to kill someone in some particularly detailed set of circumstances.
So, for the sake of the argument, let's say that in that situation, you see one of the soldiers pointing a gun at the head of your child. You're too far away not only to run at the soldier, but to effectively incapacitate him for the length of time it would take for you to get to your child before he simply got his gun again, and killed your child. Moreover, from your vantage point, and under attack from other soldiers yourself, your only really clear shot is at the soldier's head. So, you have two choices -- kill the soldier or let him kill your child.
You can't say that it's unlikely for that to be the case, or that you, yourself, could likely find a way to incapacitate him effectively. It's a matter of principle. For the sake of the hypo, you have only two choices. Kill the soldier, or allow that soldier to kill your child. Which one is the just action?
Second question: I drive for a living. 100,000 miles a year. It is not the speed limit that is killing people. It is out and out self centered rudeness. Put the speed limit at 10 miles an hour and people will shoot their way into work.
Mass transit is the only real solution to highway deaths.
Even with mass transit, though, there will likely be some accidental deaths. Without transit at all, we might be able to save some of those lives.
Ron @ 76:
You stated earlier that you hoped to change the minds of atheists (or at least xoites) as to praying to a god.
If that's your goal, you have to prove the deity's existence to us. No other discipline is exempt from the burden of proof. Why should religion / god's existence be an exception?
How can we have a discussion, if you simply assert that you're correct, that I should believe they way you do, but that you don't have to prove anything to me?
xoites defends Constitution @ 78:
Indeed. It's not so much that we might enter a "hell in America," but that we might do so irretrievably.
You have about 5,000 or more documents, (Bible) to investigate any way you want. Prove to me that it is wrong.
...in a basket well-woven.
Karen @ 79:
Second question: I drive for a living. 100,000 miles a year. It is not the speed limit that is killing people. It is out and out self centered rudeness. Put the speed limit at 10 miles an hour and people will shoot their way into work.
Mass transit is the only real solution to highway deaths.
Even with mass transit, though, there will likely be some accidental deaths. Without transit at all, we might be able to save some of those lives.
No i am not conceding that it is right only that i might do the wrong thing and kill somebody. I intend not to. That mere intent to find an alternative to killing somebody makes the possibilities of not killing somebody increase exponentially just like having a pistol in the house increases the chance that it will cause a death go up exponentially.
Transportation accidents happen and are not relevant to this discussion.
thanks for reminding me Karen....We cannot quit
Ron @ 82:
That's not how the burden of proof works. You're making the claim that it's true. You have to prove to me that it is true.
I could claim that you and I, Ron, are not actually human beings. We are, in reality, butterflies, having a long, interconnected, extended dream that we are human beings. I can't ask you to prove me wrong. You can't prove me wrong. But you don't believe it because you have no evidence in support for such a proposition.
Moreover, a believer in a different holy text from the Bible could assert the same thing to you (prove me wrong that the Koran/book of Mormon/etc. is true, for instance), and you wouldn't accept it. You'd need proof in order to be convinced that they were right.
Karen @ 86:
Damn! I think i am still a catterpillar.
Karen @ 86:
Karen, I don't have to prove that I believe in Our Father. I only have to believe what I believe.
xoites defends Constitution @ 84:
No i am not conceding that it is right only that i might do the wrong thing and kill somebody. I intend not to. That mere intent to find an alternative to killing somebody makes the possibilities of not killing somebody increase exponentially just like having a pistol in the house increases the chance that it will cause a death go up exponentially.
I've already agreed that we should always look for alternatives. Do you agree, in principle, though, that if there are no alternatives in the hypo I offered, that you should kill the soldier rather than letting him kill your child?
It was a tangential discussion I started separately. Just to see how sacred you considered human life. Many of our endeavors inevitably lead to deaths. We could, theoretically, choose not to undertake them, and thereby, save some of those lives. But our economy, way of life, etc. depend on those endeavors. Driving at high speeds is one of them. That's all. :)
Ron @ 88:
I'll take you at your word that you believe in god. But if you want to change my mind about believing in god myself, you have to give me good reasons to believe.
I'm willing to be convinced. Always. You mentioned that it was your hope to change atheists' minds. So, what are the good reasons for believing? I'm asking sincerely.
If you don't have any to offer me, how can you hope to change my mind?
Karen @ 90:
Consider the alternative.
If i killed the soldier i think i would be wrong. I might do it but i would regret it.
I might try to kill the soldier and kill the child. I would regret that even more.
Jesus was reported to have said (I saw it in the National Inqurer somewhere), "Turn the other cheek."
I think the real secret is to not piss anyone off so badly that they strike you in the first place. 9/11 did not happen in a vacuum. We have been stomping on people. Anyone who pretends these folks woke up one morning and decided it would be a hoot to crash planes into buildings is out of his mind.
Your hypothetical does not work on many levels. Most importantly American Soldiers will not run around in America shooting people. I have it on high authority the citizenry is armed and dangerous.
Freya @ 31:
One of my brother-in-law's buddies committed suicide last month. He returned from Iraq about a month before that. His other friend, who returned around the same time, is severely depressed in a clinic on suicide watch. These guys have been on several extended tours of duty. This is some fucked up shit.
Ron -
>> Ron, my friend, right now i am praying you someday become an athiest.
>
> Never happen. Why would I give up to a nothing situation. If I’m right and you are wrong, who wins. If I’m wrong nobody wins.
What if when you die, you end up at (a supposed) Peter's Gate, and they ask you Y you broke the 'Sacred Cow' commandment ('Thou shalnt place no God before me') by worshiping a man (a dead one at that)? You could end up in *HELL* for that sort've thing. ;-)
You're taking the easy WAY out, in your mind, IMHO. You have no conviction, IMHO.
Ron @ 91:
The alternative is there is no God, Vatican City becomes an amusment park and we stop killing each other in the name of our religion and start realizing that neither we nor our kids are going to heaven and we had better get busy fixing the planet.
xoites defends Constitution @ 92:
Bored, tired of the same old yadda and yadda about Bush/Cheney/Condi and the rest. Well here'a cool way to strike back and have fun doing do:
The Forces of Justice are on the wing. Google Bomb the ReThug Latta!
Ron @ 96:
Some how the last post ended up in the middle of it.
I read it Ron, don't forget i was raised a Catholic.
Karen -
>> Just to let you know, I don’t belong to any formal religion. I do my praying at home in my own privacy. You can still believe, but you don’t have to belong to a church. You are better off not to.
>
> Arrighty. That doesn’t really change any of my stances, though.
Excellent catch of his attempted red-herring!
Ron @ 91:
That there is no celestial dictator, and I'm in charge of my own life? Fantastic.
xoites defends Constitution @ 99:
That is a problem My broher married into a Catholic family and became one and it didn't help him. I don't belong to any formal religion. Be who you are.
Do we create hell on earth to convince people that if they pray to God they will go to heaven?
Or did we create God to justify creating hell on earth?
Karen @ 101:
Yes you are. Our Father said that.
Ok, I've caught up on the debates going on here in this thread. Karen, stunningly breathtaking debating on your part on the 'Does (a supposed) God Exist' debate. And Xoites got in a few good words as well. On the debate with Xoites? Not as good (but you have an actual worthwhile opponent with xoites ... )
Stanley Rosenthal @ 105:
I'm not even an honorable mention. I'm hurt.
Ron my friend, read between the lines and you might find yourself in there somewhere.
revulver @ 3:
Haven't you heard? Bashing Bush is trendy now. Theres money to be made in it so its acceptable, and profitable.
Even the "progressive" rags want to keep Bush around, he pays off for everyfuckinbody!
Stanley Rosenthal @ 107:
It still almost brought me to tears. LOL
This poem seems to be saying, I want President Bush to wake up and be a good human being and face his own dormant conscience.
What bullshit. This is a naive fantasy. It's unrealistic, cloying and stupid. The man is a fourth-rate human being, a criminal and a liar. He has NO conscience. Poetry be damned. He cannot and will not be redeemed, ever. He has blatantly, consciously violated the constitution he is sworn to uphold, and then erased the record of his crimes. He knew exactly what he was doing.
The sentiment expressed by the poem is childish. You might as well ask that Hitler dig potatoes on an Israeli kibbutz, convert to Judaism and pray at the wailing wall. It won't bring the 6 million murdered jews back.
Bush & Cheney's whole modus operandi has been to go as far as they can to pursue their wars and plots and to benefit their friends, without regard to constitutional limits, laws or morality. 9/11 provided the perfect opportunity for them to act without impediment.
They are irredeemable, and they are evil. No fucking poem will change this.
Member of White House Senior Staff involved in CIA Tape Destruction, that's clear Obstruction of Justice!
Probe sought in destruction of CIA tapes Lawmakers charge agency ...
San Francisco Chronicle, USA - 58 minutes ago
... told the Washington Post that longtime Bush aide Harriet Miers knew of the tapes' existence and told CIA officials that she opposed their destruction. ...
CIA was advised to keep interrogation videotapes Houston Chronicle
CIA Was Urged to Keep Interrogation Videotapes New York Times
Comment by Jennifer Daskal Sr. Counterterrorism Counsel, Human Rights Watch
Seattle Times - Reuters Canada
all 1,354 news articles »
ABC: White House counsel knew of plan to destroy tapes
WBOC TV 16, MD - 5 hours ago
The network quotes three sources as saying Miers urged the CIA not to go through with it. Word that the tapes were destroyed has sparked a firestorm on ...
Hollywood talks break down...Report: Miers knew about... | kxnet ...
KXMC, ND - 4 hours ago
WASHINGTON (AP) ABC News reports that then-White House Counsel Harriet Miers knew the CIA was planning to destroy videotapes of the interrogation of two ...
CIA video firestorm...Blackwater focus narrows...Gunman's suicide ... Reiten Television KXMB Bismarck
Snowy weather...Demands for CIA probe...Hollywood talks fall apart ... KXMC
http://news.google.com/news?sourceid=navclient&hl=en&ned=us&q=harriet+mi...
We have a law about kiting checks, maybe we need one about kiting scandals.
Also, can a president issue pardons immediately upon taking office? I see bush resigning and cheney pardoning him. But before bush resigns, he issues a pardon for cheney.
Really? Really?
You're really getting to the bedrock of what Bush is through execrable poetry?
I like neither crimes against humanity or crimes against English, but I wouldn't have thought C&L held them comparable.
NYT reporting that Dem.s about to cave-in on war budget.
Amazing! I'm shocked! Shocked! No reeeallly! I swear! Shocked!
This has nothing to do with anything but the need for world peace via cat talk. ;)
The two talking cats
redratio1 @ 114:
Holy shit. I'm so shocked I might faint. Not.
This is why no one reads the news or even spares a second to care about the democratic process. Both parties are cave dwelling losers who constantly cave because well, that's their job, seeing as they are owned by ill-intentioned corporate interests.
That, and at least half the population or more than that is overworked with little time to spare and little health care for their children.
When a society relies on billboards and sound bytes for information and relies on false expectations for underpaid and overwhelmed teachers to parent their children (or else!) ; the decline is inevitable as well as understandable.
We fall into that category.
The planned obsolescence of America and it's spirit.
When will people realize that bush is a sadistic sociopath and stop writing stuff like this? Even if this "dream" came true, bush would just roll over and go back to sleep, continuing his "dreams" of taking a dump on the lower classes. "How dare you enter this world and not be born rich!"
PassedPawn @ 117:
Answer: They won't.
It's going to take a stunning concentrated effort to get to that point.
At least that's the way it seems.
The only other thought is too depressing which says that caring has been brainwashed out of us. No one feels their particular voice would have any impact.
Warmongers!
http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5jATc3uwVfdP33zpLBLu-AXZ06bBAD8TD5GN00
The unfathomable ignorance:
Gates ended his speech with a grim warning against underestimating the United States.
Some countries, he said, "may believe our resolve has been corroded by the challenges we face at home and abroad. This would be a grave misconception."
Nazi Germany, Imperial Japan, Fascist Italy and the former Soviet Union all made that miscalculation, Gates said. "All paid the price. All are on the ash heap of history."
this will never happen. Bush doesn't have the capacity for self examination. He is an idiotic sociopath, who only cares about the people he actually happens to know and those only to the extent that they don't interfere in his life too much. If he had the dream like Scrooge, he would spend the entire time asking the spirits "what did I do" or saying "I didn't know anything".
Now Cheney might be able to have such a dream, only there is no Jacob Marley who gives a tinkers damn about Cheney's "soul". There is only one person who might have played that part, and Cheney shot him in the face.
sayhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VJh1BfjIaXs&eurl=http://crooksandliars.com/
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=9014690563206019482&q=9%2F11++tr...
http://www.elfyourself.com/?id=1212620650
Well, you know what i always say...
http://youtube.com/watch?v=yvOJcSqISck
Do we know for sure that animals who sleep hanging upside down in caves really dream?
redratio1 @ 114:
NYT has been around-the-clock spinning anti-Dem mythology for the whole year. This is just one more piece of that NYT campaign, like when they said in just the same flat terms that the House FISA RESTORE Act would include immunity -- which it never did. If you think the NYT isn't playing games, you are just naive.
Meanwhile, Krongard's resignation and the (Blackwater?) torture videotape destrution coming out -- related? Hearings to start early next week.
Chairman Waxman paints another major crony on his fuselage.
pissed off patricia @ 124:
It's basic to the health of the animal brain.
Would be handy for all sorts of critters:
http://web.mit.edu/newsoffice/2001/dreaming.html
Patrick @ 19:
What confuses me is, Bush talks to god, and when he asks god, "which ones are the right ones to kill," what does god answer? What do you think god says? Then ask yourself if you should be killing anyone. (I say you, becasue I am not American, and by empowering Bush, I also mean YOU literally.)
I went over to Charlottesville last night, to hear Kucinich speak. Among the many things he did that night was give voice to the millions of people calling out the names of Dick Cheney and his evil finger puppet Bush -- but he did not speak for their followers. He spoke for their victims, my friends, their victims.
Arm the Money Bomb! www.December152007.org
7 ka-ching! 6 ka-ching! 5 ka-ching!.............
CoIntelPro @ 36:
I remember reading back a few years ago that the military ONLY counted soldiers that died 'on the spot' from wounds as war casualties. If they got them on a plane and out of Iraq and into one of the military hospitals in Europe, and they died there, they were not counted as war casualties. If they got back to the states and died, they were not counted. Does anyone else remember reading this?
Edwin @ 128:
Bush may hear voices, but he does not "talk to god". I have a number of very right-wing religious nut cases in my family, and they claim to 'talk to god' also. Rest assured, they may hear voices, and they may talk and get answers, but that ain't god they are talking to. Thet can talk in 'tounges' right on que at their church also. Been there, seen that. Not much in this world is scarier than watching 300 people start to bable incoherently and wave their hands in the air. I watched the 'preacher' while the rest of the fools did their little routine and could tell by the look on his face he was thinking something like, "Good, Good, the cool-aid is working well today!". They are all nothing but a bunch of lunatics. Absolute idiots.
May the great host of ghosts be led by PAT TILLMAN
may he experience the hell in the afterlife that he has created for so many here on earth
then come back to earth as a cockroach
karma's a bitch
You could insert CLINTON just as easy or the MSM
xoites defends Constitution @ 43:
It won't be possible until we are no longer stone-age men who think we are SMRTer than stone-age men. The most frequent question arising out of our current state is: "How could this happen?". The answer is obviously: "We did it or we let it!"
Speaking of corpal deities, An Indian judge has summoned two Hindu gods to help resolve a 20-year-old property dispute
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2007/12/08/whindu10...
cnn this morning is framing the nie report as if IT might be in error and pres bush right all along, still right always right and still out for iran--justly?
maybe cnn figures that the nie can't know what god knows and god tells george what to do.
i guess cnn doesn't want to waste all the graphics and intros they made to support war war war, rah rah rah.
cnn = corrupt news network
Annoyed Canuck @ 110:
So tell us how you really feel!
FreedomOfInformationAct @ 111:
boosh loyalist, porter goss, should pay dearly.
when boosh leaves office, there will undoubtedly be a long pardon list.
I registered Democratic to purge the party of corporatists(that is, DLC, DSCC and DCCC) and wimps in the primary. I'd like to suggest to sane republicans that they remove incumbents as well.
Jenny'O @ 137:
cnn has been a planned co-conspirator all along. any doubts, see this:
“And now, Wolf, this from our White House stenography department….what? Oh, nevermind.”
ophra will suck them in so obama can suck them off ,im impressed!
#112
They should start impeachment proceedings against both clowns, then neither can be pardoned.
"The presidential power to pardon is granted under Article II, Section 2 of the Constitution.
"The President ... shall have power to grant reprieves and pardons for offenses against the United States, except in cases of impeachment."
No standards, and only one limitation -- no pardons for the impeached.
Freya @ 118:
He won't have a dream like that because he has no soul. That's why he was chosen.
This was written before it became obvious that the peace movement is no bigger than the chickenhawk crowd on the other end of the spectrum. There were and will be no mass protests - lots of clucking tongues, but no big marches. The marchers of 1968 are old now and their children aren't threatened by the draft, so they give lip service to peace, but no more. like Cheney and Rove and Kristol and Dubya, they're too busy.
Too bad about the Iraqis, too bad about the blue collar white kids. too bad about the Hispanic and black kids. They died and no one cared enough to push Congress into action by clogging the streets and threatening the establishment with the loss of their corporate infrastructure. There is no draft.
The next time you hear a politician use the word 'billion' in a casual
manner, think about whether you want the 'politicians' spending YOUR tax
money. A billion is a difficult number to comprehend, but one advertising
agency did a good job of putting that figure into some perspective in one of
its releases.
A. A billion seconds ago it was 1959.
B. A billion minutes ago Jesus was alive.
C. A billion hours ago our ancestors were living in the Stone Age.
D . A billion days ago no-one walked on the earth on two feet.
E. A billion dollars ago was only 8 hours and 20 minutes, at the rate our
government is spending it.
While this thought is still fresh in our brain, let's take a look at New
Orleans It's amazing what you can learn with some simple division.
Louisiana Senator, Mary Landrieu (D), is presently asking the Congress for
$250 BILLION to rebuild New Or leans. Interesting number, what does it mean?
A. Well, if you are one of 484,674 residents of New Orleans (every man,
woman, child), you each get $516,528.
B. Or, if you have one of the 188,251 homes in New Orleans, your home gets
$1,329,787.
C. Or, if you are a family of four, your family gets $2,066,012.
Washington, DC ... HELLO!!! ... Are all your calculators broken???
Tax his land,
Tax his wage,
Tax his bed in which he lays.
Tax his tractor,
Tax his mule,
Teach him taxes i s the rule.
Tax his cow,
Tax his goat,
Tax his pants,
Tax his coat.
Tax his ties,
Tax his shirts,
Tax his work,
Tax his dirt.
Tax his tobacco,
Tax his drink,
Tax him if he tries to think.
Tax his booze,
Tax his beers,
If he cries,
Tax his tears.
Tax his bills,
Tax his gas,
Tax his notes,
Tax his cash.
Tax him good and let him know
T hat after taxes, he has no dough.
If he hollers,
Tax him more,
Tax him until he's good and sore.
Tax his coffin,
Tax his grave,
Tax the sod in which he lays.
Put these words upon his tomb,
'Taxes drove me to my doom!'
And when he's gone,
We won't relax,
We'll still be after the inheritance TAX!!!
Accounts Receivable Tax
Building Permit Tax
Cell phone taxes
CDL License Tax
Cigarette Tax
Corporate Income Tax
Dog License Tax
Federal Income Tax
Federal U nemployment Tax (FUTA)
Fishing License Tax
Food License Tax
Fuel Perm it Tax
Gasoline Tax
Hunting License Tax
Inheritance Tax
Inventory Tax
IRS Interest Charges (tax on top of tax),
IRS Penalties (tax on top of tax),
Liquor Tax,
Luxury Tax,
Marriage License Tax,
Medicare Tax,
Property Tax,
Real Estate Tax,
Service charge taxes,
Social Security Tax,
Road Usage Tax (Tr uckers),
Sales Taxes,
Recreational Vehicle Tax,
School Tax,
State Income Tax,
State Unemployment Tax (SUTA),
Telephone Federal Excise Tax,
Telephone Federal Universal Service Fe e Tax,
Telephone Federal, State and Local Surcharge Tax,
Telephone Minimum Usage Surcharge Tax,
Telephone Recurring and Non-recurring Charges Tax,
Telephone State and Local Tax,
Telephone Usage Charge Tax,
Utility Tax,
Vehicle License Registration Tax,
Vehicle Sales Tax,
Watercraft Registration Tax,
Well Per mit Tax,
Workers Compensation Tax.
STILL THINK THIS IS FUNNY?
Not one of these taxes existed 100 years ago, and our nation was the most
prosperous in the world. We had absolutely no national debt, had the
largest middle class in the world, and Mom stayed home to raise the kids.
What happened? Can you spell 'politicians that like BIG government and
spending'.
lee ann @ 134:
I see the Trollette has overflowed again!
.
cactusjumper @ 147:
I propose that for a period not less than 90 days, the United States suspend ALL taxpayer funded services including road maintenance, running schools, firefighting, police, airports, port cities, etc. THEN see who the first people to shriek that their ox was gored. Give you odds it's one of those greedy conservatives who want services, but would eliminate taxes.
FWIW - if you have three kids in school, the user fees would amount to about $25K. Of course you could always send the three to private school for $75K and they wouldn't have to sit near the unwashed masses. Then, when your house caught fire, you'd have to shop among fire companies to see who was available at the moment. The cops responding to you being mugged? LOL
Cactusjumper - should you get lost in the desert, you're going to get a mighty fat bill for the search. Maybe $100K.
The main problem with George WAlker Bush is; He's to simple to understand the smart things and not smart enough to understand the simple things....like...
The truth is like the sun, you hide it away some of the time but sooner or later...it'll appear again.- Elvis Presley...A King (of sorts)
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