Chris Dodd Thanks You For Your Support
By Nicole Belle Monday Dec 17, 2007 12:59pm
Chris Dodd thanks the netroots for their support and congratulates his colleagues for their help in the fight against retroactive immunity.
"Today we have scored a victory for American civil liberties and sent a message to President Bush that we will not tolerate his abuse of power and veil of secrecy. The President should not be above the rule of law, nor should the telecom companies who supported his quest to spy on American citizens. I want to thank the thousands of Americans throughout the country that stood with me to get this done for our country."
The progressive blogs, who played a huge role in lobbying the Senate to support Dodd's leadership against retroactive immunity, are joining in the celebration now that the FISA bill has been pulled until next year.
In an email, Athenae of First Draft writes, "Seriously, that was some awesome with awesome sauce and a side of pure, crispy win."
Crooks & Liars has video of Dodd's closing remarks this evening.
Jason Rosenbaum at The Seminal writes, "This victory means Dodd's filibuster has weight. It also makes it much more likely that he will win round two as he continues to stand up for the Constitution and against telecom immunity."
Sam Stein at the Huffington Post sets the early narrative - one which I think accurately describes how events evolved over the course of the last few days - in an article titled "Dodd's Filibuster Threat Persuades Reid."[..]
Also, thanks to everyone at FireDogLake for all the help driving activism today.
You can keep giving Chris Dodd the props he's due at ChrisDodd.com
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This is what a Senator should be. (Are you listening Lieberman?)
I am proud to be from the State of Connecticut and that Chris Dodd is my senator. I'll miss him when he's President!
Chris ruled on Ed Schultz's show today. He's a true patriot
Dodd is showing so many of the career politicians that yes, he is one of them but he is far more of a patriot. Where were Obama and Shillary??? Dodd - leader Clinton and Obama - will never be leaders
Yes, and he sent out an email to everyone on his mailing list saying approx the same thing. I wish we could actually throw him a victory party. He was victorious over a bunch of evil doers. Now if someone will knock some sense into Reid's head so that we don't have to do this all over again.
Reid should be taken out to the curb the next trash day. How could he justify what he was doing.
Okay, my evil twin says what if this was a setup between Dodd and Reid? What if Reid brought that version of the bill to the floor just so Dodd could point out all the reasons the telecoms should not get immunity? And what if Reid never agreed that they should but this way it got the sunshine and air time it deserved, plus so did Dodd.
I told my evil twin to STFU and let me enjoy my the moment. I also told that evil twin that no matter what the deal, it was still one of the best speeches I had ever heard on the floor of the Senate and it was delivered with raw emotion.
Great win. But I've been looking through some MSM and only hear a whisper.
THANK YOU SENATOR DODD!!!!
This was true leadership, and wow-- if I lived in one of those early states I'd be thinking long and hard about who's got their priorities straight...
B
wish he was doing it for more than a campaign push, but it is still patriotic... sort of
would he be doing it if he wasn't running for president?
would anyone else have stood up if he didn't?
No way. I'm not thanking Dodd until he votes against the Thought Crimes Bill, an atrocious bill that passed the House overwhelmingly (404 to 6!) because it was a DEMOCRATIC bill sponsored by Jane Harmon of California. If you want more info on this bill, check out:
http://www.lewrockwell.com/knaebel/knaebel11.html
Get informed, and if you don't like this bill tell your senators who are going to be voting next on this. In the House, Kucinich was one of the only Dems to vote against it. I'm really disgusted with the Democratic Party leadership right now.
Oh, and if you think this bill is only going to be used to stop terrorists, than I've got some swam land to sell ya! The "Violent Radicalization and Homegrown Terrorism Prevention Act of 2007" is a bill absolutely begging to be abused. It allows the government to spy on AND prosecute individuals BEFORE they have even committed a crime, thus the nickname "Thought Crimes Bill." This is straight out of Minority Report.
And for those of us who cherish Intenet Democracy: the bill specifically identifies the Internet as a source of "radical thought" that needs to be controlled. Our spinmeisters haven't figured out how to control the Internet yet, so they want to pass a bill to rein all this freedom in. Don't believe me? read the bill. Make up your own mind, but do something! Google "Thought crimes bill" and you'll be surprised how much good info there is on the internet about this, despite the fact that our pathetic corporate media is ignoring the story.
PS: Read Naomi Wolf's: The End of America. Terrifying, but needful. These people are really becoming fascists, and its up to us now. We can't be complacent and leave it up to the Democratic leadership. Most of them have sold us out. They will only listen if we flood them with emails, phone calls, letters to the editors, protests, etc...
Take heart. We don't have the luxury of despair. Don't you dare give up! I care about this country, and I'll be damned if I'll let a bunch of elitists in Congress destroy this democracy! Peace.
thank you Senator Dodd!
now can you also address the provisions of the bill that bypass the fisa court and let boosh surveil with impunity?
please also look for a successor to harry reid!
Searching thought crimes bill I found this:
http://www.onenewsnow.com/2007/05/house_passes_thought_crimes_bi.php
Wow, those repugs are willing to throw the Constitution around when it comes to condoning racism and racist driven violence, but those pesky first 10 amendments are just to be ignored.
I must thank Dodd for standing up for us. I would prefer that no retroactive immunity be granted. The Feinstein compromise is interesting has anyone looked at it?
xrepub @ 11:
Secret justice in a secret court.
Would that the rest of our representatives in congress and this administration were cut from the same moral fibre as that of Chris Dodd.
Sir our country owes you a debt of gratitude.
I repeat this atrocious bill is a Democratic Bill! That's the really scary part. I gave up on the repugs a long time ago, but I still held a naive belief that the Dems could stand up to them. Finding out about this democratic bill was like getting slapped in the face. We need to take the fight to the Democrats and pressure them to act in the interest of the people.
I haven't quite given up on them, but right now, the people are WAY ahead of the democratic party. Peace.
Aly @ 8:
That's advice that you might want to take, yourself. Go read the actual bill, instead of some second-hand source. It does not, in any way, make thoughts into crimes. It creates a commission plus some university-based centers to study the question of "home-grown" terrorism.
Now that it is clear that the progressive bloggers and internet folks used the telcom's wire to defeat their influence and power,
when I can expect my wire to get cut?
So Reid isn't just a wimpy little thing when it comes to Repugs, he also bends right over when challenged by a Dem. Time to get a leader who is ready to oppose the criminal WH, rather than one who caves in whenever someone yells foul.
From all of us in new Haven, who are suffering the representation of Joe "The Snake" Lieberman, THANK YOU SENATOR DODD!!!! Thank you for standing up for US, the people, in CT, and ALL the USA, for the Constitution, for the Bill of Rights, for standing up against this MADNESS call BUSH!!! Thank you.
fiver @ 5:
Right.
To have watched the news, it never happened. NYT barely gave it a mention, On Countdown it was on the half hour, tweety didn't utter a syllable. 506,000 emails hit congress, along with thousands of phone calls. My senator, Cantwell was in the 10 that supported Dodd, I have no idea what's with patti murray lately. She was invisable on this and voted for kyle/leiberman...her office felt the heat of my indignation.
Dodd got a well deserved contribution from me yeaterday. My second for him.
Thank you Senator Dodd.
Aren't we polite!
We thank Dodd. Dodd thanks us.
Let's quit mucking around. Make the SOB president, he's the only one around with balls who isn't nuts.
Think of all the annoyance we'll be spared over the next eleven months.
Not to mention the 8 years after that.
Connecticut, Sen. Dodd more than makes up for that stack shit Lieberman.
While we are celebrating, what is going on with the SAFE ACT?
Is this FISA Crap The Subterfuge this admin is used to tricking us with?
Yeah after reading the actual bill (Violent Radicalization and Homegrown Terrorism Prevention Act of 2007) it seemed more or less inoccuous, except for one of its definitions:
Homegrown terrorism.—The term ‘homegrown terrorism’ means the use, planned use, or threatened use, of force or violence by a group or individual born, raised, or based and operating primarily within the United States or any possession of the United States to intimidate or coerce the United States government, the civilian population of the United States, or any segment thereof, in furtherance of political or social objectives.
I don't know that I'm comfortable with this description of terrorism. This seems like it could apply to netroots movements to influence our representatives into voting certain ways by threatening their reelectability.
That could just be paranoia, but could one of the lawyers that frequents this blog decode the legalize in there?
Thank God while all the others are running around the country campaigning, Chris Dodd is actually doing something productive in the Senate . The irony makes my ears bleed. He's exactly the type of person we need in the White House. Which is why we will never elect him to the White House.
I should have first mentioned,
THANK YOU SENATOR DODD!
(think of this in 48 pt, triple bold, flashing font format!)
JTM @ 15:
Oh I not only have studied this bill, I've lived the consequences of bills like this: I'm a peace activist who works with a group of nonviolent peace protesters who do not even do property damage in our work, yet we were spied on by the FBI during the Vietnam war, and as currently as the 2004 Republican National Convention, we were infiltrated by officers from the New York Police Department (agent provocateurs). There is currently an ACLU lawsuit about this, since we a were a part of a large group of mostly peaceful protest groups (including the terrifying sounding "Grannies for Peace" (snark!)) who were spied on by the NYPD. And all this is PRE-"thought Crimes" bill. If this bill passes, we won't even be able to sue the government because of this law.
Don't trust that individual blogger. The ACLU is currently fighting Rep. Harmon on this issue and you can get much more info about this bill on their website. I'm glad you're asking the question, but I can tell you that a law like this is absolutely ripe for abuse. There are already cases of individuals being interrogated by the FBI for taking out the "wrong books", including books on nonviolent resistance. This bill is very dangerous. I usually don't subscribe to the slippery slope argument because I don't often find it valid. But in this case, we really need to watch for our rights, because innocent individuals WILL get prosecuted if this law ever comes to pass. Thanks for the feedback.
Thank you Sen. Dodd! You are a glimmer of hope
in a sea of darkness. I hope other Democrats start
to act more like you!
I know this is going to be followed by disappointments later, maybe all for nothing, I fully expect $ and power to get their way in this somehow...
but to have this one thing, against many odds, come out on the side of the common people, at least for the moment,
it still feels great!!!!
Thank YOU........
I have never given a single dime to any politician. I just sent $25 to the Dodd campaign. Politicians who actually do their job -- vs. those that only talk about doing their job -- should be encouraged and supported.
myshadow @ 19:
Most members of the press are CFR members.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JPlvdSQ6cAM
The other thing to understand is operation mockingbird.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Mockingbird
We have to realize that five corporate powers control the MSM.
http://www.StopBigMedia.com
I don't know what else to do. But thanks for the internet for empowering us.
More on the Thought crimes Bill:
http://www.afterdowningstreet.org/?q=node/29063
http://www.antiwar.com/ips/fisher.php?articleid=11968
http://www.pdamerica.org/articles/news/2007-12-03-13-51-09-news.php
Sorry to keep harping on this issue, and I'm not trying to ram this anyone's throat, but we can't be naive about the intent and effects of this dangerous bill. Peace.
Thank you Chris Dodd! High damn time someone put his foot down and said "Enough!" Now let's keep the fire burning.
"War Machine" KISS
Rj, are people really complaining about Lieberman? Do people feel like they were lied to?
As for Dodd, he really came through and impressed me.
Ok final link and I'll shut up :)
http://www.aclu.org/safefree/general/32886prs20071128.html
phew...got that out of my system...
Why isn't this in the media anywhere. I thought this would be front page NYTimes but no, I don't see it anywhere.
Maybe the newsworthiness is not all that high given that the effectiveness of the filibuster has already been amply demonstrated by the GOP.
Nicole, kudos to you for "stickying" this story to the top of the C&L page for two days. You did a great service by keeping this story alive.
Imagine if C&L could form a "union" with the other 50 largest progressive blogs/news sites. And they all worked in unison to create an Action Alert.
Since we have virtually no allies in the corporate media and only populate 2% of talk radio we must learn how to coordinate the outlets we have to maximum benefit!
If you're talking about why the Thought Crimes bill isn't in the mainstream media: it's because the mainstream corporate media long ago sold out. They might even be actually complicit in helping the Dems with this bill. The Dems know how unpopular this bill is, and they suspended the rules of order to pass this bill without congressional debate (which technically they can only do so in case of an "uncontroversial bill".I don't think this applies here, obviously. They KNOW that if more people knew about it, there would be a giant outcry, and I wouldn't put it past the corporate lackeys of the mainstream corporate media to let them get away with this.
The corporate media will do exactly what it did with the Patriot Act: they won't write anything significant until AFTER the bill is made into law, and then they'll play the pathetic game of "who could possibly have known about this?" Smoke and Mirrors. That's why it's so important to write letters to the editor about this. We must be the media. Peace.
And I thought I was done ... :)
I'm pretty cynical about any Democratic legislative "victories" since they seem to evaporate quite quickly. What I fear will happen is that when Congress reconvenes in January the approach of the expiration of the FISA revision act will be imminent. Then there'll be this big swirl of activity to "do something" so that the terrorists don't win or that the GOP can't claim that the Dems are supporting the terrorists. Then enough Democratic sheep will fall bleatingly in line to ram through the act with telcom immunity. I hope I'm wrong but since 2000 my worst fears regarding all branches of the government seem to have come to pass much more often than not.
The whole situation is so daft. The GOP Senate contingent obstructs legislation across the board and then bloviates about the do-nothing Democratic controlled Congress. The GOPers are aided and abetted by the Obfuscating Media who put out headlines like "Democrats fail to pass ..." rather than "GOP blocks ..."; in fact, a reasonable case could be made that the OM are actually an accessories rather than fellow-travelers.
DON'T THANK HIM YOU IDIOTS.
GIVE HIM YOUR MONEY. DUH!!!
He wants to be president. He looked out for YOU - so Take Care Of Him.
Or are you so duped by the Hillary/Obama propaganda machine that you fail to see WHO IS ACTUALLY WORKING FOR YOU? GET A CLUE!
Bobby @ 36:
This is part of what a wrote earlier today (edited):
If you watched NBC nightly news or Hardball yesterday this story never appeared. In their world none of this ever happened. In their world the citizens were quiet and obedient yesterday and happily took their abuse from their masters. As they always do. Normally this censorship would piss me off. But now that I think about it I’m glad. This was OUR victory. Our party. Brian Williams and Chris Matthews were not invited. I don’t think they’d understand what occured anyway. Its was too subtle and beautiful for their eyes. The people rising up to fight the evildoers. The same evildoers that pay the outrageous salary of anchor Brian Williams, to divert the people who own those airwaves from the real news.
no, the forgotten war was, umm... wait, I know this... Korea... yeah, Korea...
ShouldBeWorking @ 23:
I've read the bill several times because it keeps coming up in various comment threads. The bill doesn't do much by itself, merely authorizing a commission to do a study and make recommendations, and then funding a "Center for Excellence" at some university somewhere. It doesn't make anything a crime or create any kind of new enforcement mechanism. In my opinion the worst that can be said of the bill is that it is a waste of time and money.
Most of the non-hysterical concern about the bill concerns the potential that it could lead to future action by the government that might focus unfairly on racial, political, or religious minorities, or suppress free speech on the Internet.
I don't think that the bill's definition of "terrorism" can be stretched so far that it would include your hypothetical netroots movement. The bill's authors have made it fairly clear that it is intended to focus on violent actors, like Timothy McVeigh.
Preacher Boob @ 20:
I am trying to not vote- but the more I hear from Dodd, the more I like what I hear. This is what leadership looks like.
OK, anybody who doesn't switch their allegiance from Hillary and Obama to Chris Dodd right now isn't paying attention.
Aly -
If they want to come get you, they already can. They don't need some new, vaguely-worded law. If they really mean to do what you seem to be worried about, then you'd be in a third country faster than you can say "but I'm not an enemy combatant" or "why doesn't this plane have any markings?"
Stop arguing over petty shit. Keep your eye on the ball.
Rusty Shackleford @ 44:
Rusty, thanks for the comments, but I wish I could afford to be that naive. As is, the modus operandi of the government is to do whatever it takes UNTIL there is a lawsuit, and then they start to obey laws. As a nonviolent peace protester who has experience with infiltration from the government, I PROMISE you this bill is a can of worms just waiting to explode.
Take the National ID issue for example. Right now, if you travel by bus or train, you might already have been asked whether or not you're an American citizen. Here in Upstate NY, we've had numerous cases of American citizens being asked for their papers, in the name of fighting illegal immigration. The ACLU is up on this issue too. The Federal Government currently doesn't have the authority to do so, but they rae doing so regardless, AS IF the National ID laws have already been passed.
Same thing with this Thought Crimes bill. They have already questioned peaceful protesters and people who have taken out the "wrong books" out of the library. This piece of legislation will make it legal for them to spy on all of us.
Please don't take these words as criticism, but from my experience and my reading of this bill, I can assure you it will be abused. It IS time to get "hysterical" NOW, because if we sound the alarm in a year it will be too late.
Oh and they will go after the Netroots: They specifically mention the internet as a source of "violent radicalization." If you think you're exempt from this wide net they're casting, I apologize, but you're not. Hope this finds you well. Peace.
JTM,
It might be petty shit to you, but it is every day life for me and other activists who have been detained, arrested, and stopped at the border for having participated in "suspicious activities." Once again, I repeat that I am a peaceful nonviolent protester who has never participated in property destruction. If 'm dangerous, if "Grannies for Peace" is dangerous, than there is something seriously wrong with the state of this nation. I don't won't to come off as attacking you, but I really think you're wrong on this. This is not just about my rights: I already accept that I will occasionally be spied on by the government: it's the life I chose. Unfortunately, the "Thought Crimes" act is aimed against people who aren't even activists. People like you. That's why this is so important. We have officially crossed the Rubicon. I hope you're well. Peace.
werenotgonnatakeit @ 34:
Dodd IS impressive, has gotten more impressive over the last few years, and what he did today is magnificent.
As for Joe the snake, Yes, everyone, everyone I talk to despises the man, of course I can't bring myself to talk much with republicrooks, so that might bias things a bit.
Lied to, by a politician? Well I did see his lips move, which is about all you need to know, but....
Joe's in it for Joe. How about just one, a broad view, as example. In the Lamont debate? Joe: "I'm the Democrat in this race". Well, you know the rest, he lost the Democratic nomination, ran against Lamont. Yeah, he's a snake. Now take a look at his voting record. bush,bush,bush down the line. Ok Joe, your a Democrat, and we're all stupid.
Thanks all.
And by the way, they have already come for me. I'm not scared. I'm afraid for other Americans.
Aly @ 48:
Yes, I remember when Bush's executive order back in July was going to shut down all the political blogs too.
Can you tell me what specific language in the bill concerns you?
JTM @ 47:
Very true.
My experience in watching the minor hubbub over HR 1955 is that the people raising the hue and cry are primarily supporters of a particular fringe Republican candidate, whose supporters include the type of people - white supremacists, militia types - who are most likely to draw attention as potential domestic terrorists.
Here's what concerns me:
"establish a grant program to prevent radicalization (use of an extremist belief system for facilitating ideologically-based violence) and homegrown terrorism in the United States;"
I get chills down my spine when I hear the term "extremist belief system." Who gets to decide what an "extremist belief system" is? According to the the federal government, I probably have an "extremist belief system" because I believe in a peace and justice nonviolent revolution. Nelson Mandela was deemed a terrorist by the Apartheid government. The people who have been arrested for wearing anti-Bush t-shirts, taking "suspicious books" out of the library (Once again I highly recommend Naomi Wolf's new book for some really chilling stories on Bush era civil liberties violations), and having "Impeach Bush and Cheney" signs on their lawns are probably "extremists." This is ALREADY happening. This bill WILL be used to go after citizens even more aggressively.
I know that there are right wing extremists who have been been prosecuted, but there have also been nonviolent peaceful protesters. Do you really believe "Grannies for Peace", or Quakers , or Roman Catholic nuns are right wing? I'm telling you. We should all be concerned. If you think this bill doesn't apply to you, you are mistaken. Peace.
oh, and it's not about being deported to another country: It's about being thrown in jail, and/ or interrogated by the FBI. We haven't YET become a fascist state (thank goodness), but laws like this are slowly changing the very DNA of this country, which is why we need to draw a line in the sand NOW.
My group has had nonviolent protesters as old as 94 years old (you've read this right) arrested for making statements deemed "extremist." Of course, we bail them out and they pay fines. This isn't yet South America, but it begs the question: "what is an extremist?"
Thanks for the explanation Rusty. I'd gathered the meat of the bill to be the creation of group to investigate root causes of domestic terrorism, but I'm still not comfortable with what's labled as terrorism. It seems too vague, and doesn't explicitly say violent and only violent activity.
Aly @ 54:
The bill applies only to the use of an "extremist belief systems" for facilitating ideologically-based violence.
This bill doesn't apply to me. If you're what you say you are, then it doesn't apply to you either.
And if you still think the government will come after you even though the bill doesn't apply to you - in other words, act extralegally - then the bill itself doesn't really matter, does it?
Aly
I'm also concerned about that bill. Not too long ago we had the "Miami 7", a bunch of poor souls who couldn't overthrow a treehouse, whose weapons training was shooting paintballs at each other in the woods, who were tried for three or four terrorist conspiracy crimes, and the majority of their "crimes" were set up by the government. One was exonerated, and the case against the others resulted in a hung jury.
It's related to the discussion at hand. When language in a law or in a lawsuit is so vague as to be meaningless, a lot of people can get swept up in "violations" of these incomprehensible statutes. That's the trouble with this one -- it's so broad it can be applied to every living citizen who isn't on life support. Since the government can't arrest everybody, these laws are selectively applied to punish or gag certain groups of people, or in the case of Bush's agenda, to create propaganda about the terrifying terrorists apprehended under conditions where our Constitutional rights are violated.
Once again Rusty, thanks for the feedback, but you are wrong on this. None of the peaceful protesters that I have in mind and who HAVE been arrested "facilitated ideologically based violence." None of them have even engaged in destruction of property, and yet they are being prosecuted PRE-Thought Crimes bill. I really wish I could believe the letter of the law was going to be observed, but it already has been ignored, and the TCB will make it worse.
oh and the bill does matter. What is an academic exercise to you is everyday pressure for grassroots activist all over the the country. This could be a SYMBOLIC victory, but it is a needful victory. Government is still responsive to the people and congressional leaders CAN be swayed by popular opinion.
myshadow @ 19:
Do we have a local Dodd headquarters? I have been studying the candidates and Chris is a 'cut above' the pack. I too made a contribution yesterday, but I also think I have found my candidate to support. It seems like his biggest downside is lack of exposure. People tell me essentially to same thing, "I really do not know much about him".
As far as our two senators go, I had previously written both about the likelihood of the immunity provision, and how strongly I opposed it. I received letters back from both (or staff). So, it is not like Patti is unaware of this. Yesterday, I asked them to both take an active role in aiding Senator Dodd, until the provision is killed for good. I hope at least one will be inspired to help.
Sure beats Mike Huckabees idiotic holiday message.
Thank you, Chris Dodd!
We're ready to go again in January.
I just made a contribution to Mr. Dodd's campaign and then called my Senator Clinton (and emailed her) to tell her I did so. I also stated with great civility that I would NOT be supporting her. I might have called Obama too, but his campaign website didn't have a number.
Couldn't have said it better anney. In fact, I'm not even talking about people who wield "dangerous weapons" (snark!) like paint ball guns. I'm talking about old men and women, some in clergy uniform being branded a "threat to national security". The language of this bill is so vague as to be easily manipulated by any official who wants to do so. I honestly wish it weren't so, and I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but the truth is the truth...
Aly @ 60:
Please write from jail after you've been arrested for "thought crimes" under authority of HR 1955. I'll be very interested to hear about it.
THANK YOU SENATOR DODD!!
Rusty Shackleford @ 66:
I have already been arrested for nonviolent protests. It's not about the LAW. It's about the APPLICATION of the LAW.
And numerous people have already been arrested. Why do you think this is still just a theoretical threat? this is already happening: that's the point! I hate to burst your bubble man, but this is the stone truth.
Rusty,
The Miami 7 case is a valid example of thought crime, using the definition of homegrown terrorism that I said I wasn't comfortable with. Even the Time article I read said the description of the "dangerous terrorists" was beyond ludicrous. The term 'bad movie' was actually used.
I'm not feeling nearly as reactionary as Aly, but I see the danger of going down this path.
Aly @ 61
oh and the bill does matter. What is an academic exercise to you is everyday pressure for grassroots activist all over the the country. This could be a SYMBOLIC victory, but it is a needful victory. Government is still responsive to the people and congressional leaders CAN be swayed by popular opinion.
I agree. This kind of bill requires real vigilance because once passed, the amount of work it takes to change it when its abused is massive. Listening to Hatch yesterday really bothered me. He seemed to be saying we should all just trust them to do what's best for us and, if we're nervous about what they're doing and discuss it, or work to change it, then we must be part of the lunatic fringe. I thought being an engaged citizen was a necessary part of a democracy.
ShouldBeWorking @ 70:
Right, and I AM reactionary because I have already seen the ugly side of the misappropriation of laws. I consider myself to be on the front lines of the struggle, and this is one of the first bills that actually has me scared for the American people. They have already come for me and other nonviolent activists. We can take it. It's the vocation we chose. But this will impact regular, innocent Americans who have done nothing but dissent. I am not afraid for myself. I'm afraid for you and countless other innocent Americans.
Senator Dodd,
Thanks! But it isn't over yet. He's going to try it again. Against the advice of the overwhelming majoprity of Democrats, he purposely Chose the Cheny/Rockefeller version, because he was sure that the votes needed to get rid of the immunity provision could not be achieved. I take that maneuver as his coming out party for turning to the Dark Side. He can no longer be considered to be a friend of the Constitution, and I no longer consider him to be a Democrat (can the rest of you guys hold a vote of no confidence and strip him of the leadership position?). In the meantime, you need to get as many of your colleagues as possible to co-sponsor the next, inevitable, filibuster.
BTW, I noticed how the media-appointer "front runners" couldn't be bothered. The whole lot looks like a bunch of corporatists to me eyes.
Rusty Shackleford,
I do not share your optimism on the Home Grown Terrorism Bill, if for no other reason than the people who have hatched this plan have demonstrated that they are committed to establishing a de facto police state of ubiquitous law by means of a thousand incremental steps. Each step that is taken taken is done in the name of "security" from imagined or grossly inflated and exaggerated "threeats". The sum result is that the Constitution is slowly raped as we become gradually but steadily habiutuated to ever-increasing restrictions on our liberties, freedoms and Human Rights. What will be the center of excellence? The PNAC? Regency University? The Heritage Foundation? The War College? West Point? It's a sure thing it will be something along that order with foregone conclusions which are then supported by finding which are crafted to support the conclusions. It seems to me, Their are only two places that I can think of that are as safe as the advocates of these measures are proposing, should they be able to have everything they wanted. The first is a maximum security prison and the second is a graveyard. And they would be the prison gaurds and they would inevitably be the people who made sure that the graveyards were filled to capacity.
Sorry, but to me, freedom, liberty,Human Rights and the pursuit of happiness means that I'd rather take my chances with the terrorists, such as they really exist as a bona fide threat, than live in a police state. Especially, since noboby, no group and no military has the power to takeus down. That's something only we can do to ourselves.
I'd argue about HR 1955 some more with you guys, but (1) it's off-topic and the site monitors have already given us too much space on it, and (2) I'm afraid that the government is reading my thoughts and is about to come arrest me under the non-existent enforcement authority of a bill that criminalizes nothing and hasn't even been passed yet.
Aly @ 68: I have already been arrested for nonviolent protests. It's not about the LAW. It's about the APPLICATION of the LAW.
You are making less and less sense, and should probably set the keyboard aside for a while.
If it's the application of the law that has you worked up, why are you so concerned about something that isn't even a law in the first place? If they want to mis-apply laws to you, then they have plenty to play with already.
Oh, and when I suggested they'd put you on a plane, I wasn't talking about deportation; I meant rendition.
Stepping back: my own view is that laws should be written in terms of behavior and that's it. You can take into account how many others are affected - in fact, you should - but the motives of the criminal are irrelevant (or just too complicated to include).
In contrast, when it comes to studying crime, motivation is one of the top issues. You won't stop the behavior unless you know why it's being done.
So a bill that concerns studying terrorism should talk about thoughts, because it's a study, not a new set of laws. So, in my opinion, the wording of the bill is not only unobjectionable, but appropriate.
Rusty Shackleford @ 74:
lol! Nice. Well, I hope this has at least sparked some good thinking. That's why I love the C and L crowd. Hope you guys are well. I'm actually off to another meeting. Remember though, take it from me, just because you're paranoid, doesn't mean they aren't after you. I was very rudely disenchanted from believing I was safe through years of nonviolent activism that has exposed me to the ease with which laws in Congress can be ignored or manipulated on the ground level. Hope all is good with you guys. Peace,
Oh great, I thought I was gone until JTM chimed in.
ok...what I mean is. Don't be naive about these laws. The fact that they're on the books doesn't mean they won't be ignored or misapplied. It may seem to you that it THEN follows that we shouldn't care about these laws. I couldn't disagree more. While I have little faith in Congress, I still have SOME faith in it and the ability of the people to pressure it. If we allow the TCB to pass, we will be going down a slippery slope which will allow the government to spy on AND prosecute all of us, and not have ANY recourse with the law. That's why this bill is so important. I'm a freak, I know :)
And we're not at the level of rendition yet: unless you are an immigrant or a Muslim. I could tell you horror stories about working with the Muslim community here in Upstate NY, but I don't want to take up more space than I already have...
Senator Dodd. Great video and I for one appreciate you taking the time to send it out to those of us who spent the day writing and calling D.C., while you were out front battling on the issue.
You know what though? I am terrified of having you become President. Not because you wouldn't be worth a damn....but because we can scarcely afford to lose your talent and patriotism and drive for such an important body. The constitution and the focus on LAW is most important in these days of treasonous assault on our Republic.
In fact, I would ask that you reconsider your quest for the Presidency, and begin to take serious the notion of blasting aside Harry "Backbone-less Liar" Reid, who talks a big game and then balks at key moments in history.
Please consider this suggestion. As majority leader the rest of us would breath a huge sigh of relief and most all of us would be here to have your back when you need the netroots support again!
But hey, I guess I wouldn't really mind if you won the Presidential election either. In fact, as of right now, you have my vote. You're the only one I have seen (other than John Edwards) who has the desire to stand up for the law of the land and the American people.
Your actions yesterday were one of the most impressive and motivating an effort as I have witnessed in 40 years of political battle. It's not over, I know, but what a helluva first inning it was to witness. God bless and thanks also to those you also mentioned in your video like Sen.s Kennedy, Brown and all.
Having become so used to Democrats caving, I had to read the news twice--three times--to believe it. Thank you, Chris Dodd. And thanks to all us who made our progressive voice loud enough to be heard.
You'd think this sort of thing would be a lesson to other presidential candidates -- the U.S. people want real change, and are willing to do something about it.
Hey some news coverage!
http://www.cnn.com/2007/POLITICS/12/17/terrorist.surveillance.ap/index.html
Oh wait, that doesn't give the facts...crap!
I like Dodd... I bet he smells like clean laundry.
Thanks to CL for covering this issue.
Thank you Senator Dodd.
Guys, we all deserve a pat on the back for rallying around a subject that is far from being a symbolic fight, but rather a fundemental fight against those who would tear apart the very fabric of which our country has stood for over 200 years.
We the people really can make things happen by backing those like Senator Dodd who continue to speak on behalf of the common man. If those we have elected might think that sitting on their laurels is going to get them a pass on so important an issue, let them guess again. As the good senator said, over the coming holiday, lets all talk to friends, family, co-workers and anyone else who will listen. Lets tell those in D.C. we will not go quietly into the night while letting the ignorant lead us down a rat hole.
We can do this, we can fight and we can send a message to Washington. Screw with our laws, our liberty, our freedoms and rights and you just picked a fight with millions of other patriotic Americans who will do what we must to preserve and protect the US Constitution.
THIS is the person who should be Senate Majority Leader, not that weak little Harry.
holy fuck, a real democrat. Just sent a donation, and will continue to do so if he continues to stand up.
Damn.....A real live Democrat........I thought that species was almost extinct...there ain't many real ones left......I'm liking this guy more.....
Dodd is the leader of a small force of patriots in the U.S. Senate; the vote revealed that their are only 10. Only 10 Senators are honoring their oath to preserve, protect and defend the Constitution. The rest are traitors to the United States, its Constitution and the unalienable rights of We The People.
You are welcome. 2 for 1 vs Obama that is the question.
Please... all people who are so inspired by Senator Dodd.. put your money where your heart is and contribute to his campaign. Then call the "other" candidates and let them know you did, and how much you regret them not taking a stand on such a crucial issue. It doesn't take a multi-billion dollar corporation to elect a candidate, it just takes we, the people to become active. But he DOES need our support.. or maybe Kucinich..or please.. someone who gives a damned and has the courage to show it.
I wish Chris and Ted would say it plain as day: Bush isn't threatening to veto the FISA bill to protect the phone companies. He's trhreatening to veto the FISA bill to protect his own very unmanly ass.
Never forget who the career cheerleader is really cheering for.
One question Harry Reid should have to answer;
Why when the republicans threaten a filibuster, you fold like a wet empty suit, but when a democrat threatens to filibuster, you make them actually do the filibuster?
Why the double standard?
What’s the matter Harry, SCARED of the republicans, or just a sell out when it comes to principles?
Thank YOU Mr. Dodd, you vastly enrich the public discourse.
But this is just a pause and a breath. A temporary reprieve. One small skirmish wherein, for once, the good guys came out on top. But this is hardly the battle, or the war. He's sure right about that.
There are SO MANY things to be fixed, and hundreds more NEW things coming at us (as evidenced by some questionable new Democratic legislation). There is a LOT of fight left.
I hope Dodd, Kennedy, and Feingold stay strong and keep fighting, as well as John Edwards and the West Coast Dems: Boxer,
Feinstein, Wyden, Cantwell, Murray. (Though to be fair even the lone Republican Senator Gordon Smith is starting to seriously break with his party out of conscience.) I sure hope the rest of the country wakes up, and starts demanding that their leaders put pork aside for a moment to help defend this country against such grave internal threats.Again, I really appreciate Senator Dodd's efforts and future efforts to fight these attacks on our Constitution.
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