Ron Paul is in step with the religious right. Read his views on what he thinks the constitution means, his faulty knowledge of history, and his whacky interpretations of the intent of the founding fathers. Ron Paul is a loon.

"The War on Religion" by Ron Paul

http://www.lewrockwell.com/paul/paul148.html

"As we celebrate another Yuletide season, it’s hard not to notice that Christmas in America simply doesn’t feel the same anymore. Although an overwhelming majority of Americans celebrate Christmas, and those who don’t celebrate it overwhelmingly accept and respect our nation’s Christmas traditions, a certain shared public sentiment slowly has disappeared. The Christmas spirit, marked by a wonderful feeling of goodwill among men, is in danger of being lost in the ongoing war against religion.

Through perverse court decisions and years of cultural indoctrination, the elitist, secular Left has managed to convince many in our nation that religion must be driven from public view. The justification is always that someone, somewhere, might possibly be offended or feel uncomfortable living in the midst of a largely Christian society, so all must yield to the fragile sensibilities of the few. The ultimate goal of the anti-religious elites is to transform America into a completely secular nation, a nation that is legally and culturally biased against Christianity.

This growing bias explains why many of our wonderful Christmas traditions have been lost. Christmas pageants and plays, including Handel’s Messiah, have been banned from schools and community halls. Nativity scenes have been ordered removed from town squares, and even criticized as offensive when placed on private church lawns. Office Christmas parties have become taboo, replaced by colorless seasonal parties to ensure no employees feel threatened by a “hostile environment.” Even wholly non-religious decorations featuring Santa Claus, snowmen, and the like have been called into question as Christmas symbols that might cause discomfort. Earlier this month, firemen near Chicago reluctantly removed Christmas decorations from their firehouse after a complaint by some embittered busybody. Most noticeably, however, the once commonplace refrain of “Merry Christmas” has been replaced by the vague, ubiquitous “Happy Holidays.” But what holiday? Is Christmas some kind of secret, a word that cannot be uttered in public? Why have we allowed the secularists to intimidate us into downplaying our most cherished and meaningful Christian celebration?

The notion of a rigid separation between church and state has no basis in either the text of the Constitution or the writings of our Founding Fathers. On the contrary, our Founders’ political views were strongly informed by their religious beliefs. Certainly the drafters of the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution, both replete with references to God, would be aghast at the federal government’s hostility to religion. The establishment clause of the First Amendment was simply intended to forbid the creation of an official state church like the Church of England, not to drive religion out of public life.

The Founding Fathers envisioned a robustly Christian yet religiously tolerant America, with churches serving as vital institutions that would eclipse the state in importance. Throughout our nation’s history, churches have done what no government can ever do, namely teach morality and civility. Moral and civil individuals are largely governed by their own sense of right and wrong, and hence have little need for external government. This is the real reason the collectivist Left hates religion: Churches as institutions compete with the state for the people’s allegiance, and many devout people put their faith in God before their faith in the state. Knowing this, the secularists wage an ongoing war against religion, chipping away bit by bit at our nation’s Christian heritage. Christmas itself may soon be a casualty of that war.

December 30, 2003"

God created evolution: http://evolutionoftruth.com/images/evolution.gif

every time i step into a church, i choke on the hypocrisy.

Yeah, Ron Paul's a kook.

(Gawd. You know the Repubs are bad when they make McCain look rational.)

flat earth repugs
aka, amurkkkan taliban.

youtube has some videos of ron paul rallies and the attendees should scare the shit out of any who believes in the idea of america.

They also believe in witches and casting horoscopes to divine the future.

Acting Patriotic @ 3:

God created evolution: http://evolutionoftruth.com/images/evolution.gif

---

Yeah, I could go along with that: God triggered the Big Bang or set evolution on its course or something, but to say He controlled everything not only flies in the face of science, but makes Him look like an incompetent.

"And don't tell me God works in mysterious ways," Yossarian continued, hurtling on over her objection. "There's nothing so mysterious about it. He's not working at all. He's playing. Or else, He's forgotten all about us. That's the kind of God you people talk about - a country bumpkin, a clumsy, bungling, brainless, conceited, uncouth hayseed. Good God, how much reverence can you have for a supreme being who finds it necessary to include such phenomena as phlegm and tooth decay in His divine system of creation? What in the world was running through that warped, evil, scatological mind of His when he robbed old people of their power to control their bowel movements? Why in the world did He ever create pain?"
"Pain?" Lieutenant Schiesskopf's wife pounced upon the word victoriously. "Pain is a useful symptom. Pain is a warning to us about bodily dangers."

"And who created the dangers?" Yossarian demanded, He laughed caustically. "Oh, He was really being charitable to us when He gave us pain! Why couldn't He have used a doorbell instead to notify us, or one of His celestial choirs? Or a system of blue-and-red neon tubes right in the middle of each person's forehead? Any jukebox manufacturer worth his salt could have done that. Why couldn't He?"

very unsettling that so many bona fide kooks are running on the right AND the left.

Did anybody catch that CNN special on Faith? Clinton and Edwards spewed out the zealot slop as earnestly and ignorantly as Huckabee.

The fact that the GOP is rallying around some overt, and quaintly proud, lunatics, suggests that a democratic victory might not be so easy in 08.

Ron Paul's comment about evolution or creationism leaves a lot of room for scientific discussion.

there are lots of areas of science where there isn't an absolute certainty. At least he isn't pushing his views or forcing his belief system on others.

Ron thinks science is a commie conspiracy. He sees everything through John Birch Society glasses

Cantor de Mambo @ 10:

RockmanEnough @ 6:

below_me @ 5:

every time i step into a church, i choke on the hypocrisy.

Your hypocrisy, or the church's? :-)

Why go?

Indeed, why do people go to church?

I go because I believe in my church and what it does and the people who do the doing!

Some of us do more than just sit and wait for marching orders or voting instructions.

Some of us give clothes and food to the needy, hot meals to the hungry, temporary respite to the weary, seek jobs for the unemployed, training for the uneducated, run boy scout troops, girl scout troops, youth leadership training, elderly outreach. There are 130 different programs in my church to benefit the participants and the community.

Anyone who really wants to can make a difference is what their church is and what it does and what it stands for. My church is full of people who embody the spirit of what is found in the bible.

That is not to try to make it sacred to you or even change your mind, just to let you know that there are people who congregate with a positive purpose and act on that purpose with positive intentions and produce positive results. I am grateful that THAT church was introduced to me for I now have a church home.

Maybe if you found a church that was about something other than jesus camp or mind altering, you'd at least have a more developed perspective.

Obviously, church is not for everyone.

Truth B Told @ 17:

Ron Paul's comment about evolution or creationism leaves a lot of room for scientific discussion.

there are lots of areas of science where there isn't an absolute certainty. At least he isn't pushing his views or forcing his belief system on others.

naw. he's just pandering to the huckabee klan.

CoIntelPro @ 12:

RockmanEnough @ 4:

why bash iran? that's baseless at best.

why not start in kansas? or tennesee? or mississippi? or massachussets?

you can add missourah (missouri) to your list.

From the TCR link:

Paul: First, I thought it was a very inappropriate question, you know, for the presidency to be decided on a scientific matter.

Yeah, right. Because that's the only question that will be asked.

Paul, like his fellow Republican's, is on the wrong side of so many of the issues that it'd be comical- if it weren't so fuckin' frughtenin' that he'll be defended here today. 80 comments on the topic so far at The Carpetbagger Report translates to roughly 300 here at C&L, about half of which will be Paulists attempting to defend the indefensible.

Someone should ask the candidates if they thing the End of the World is a good thing?

Straight across the board 'yes'.

That will swing the undecideds over to the Dems.

Truth B Told @ 22-

great perspective. you’re right. Only Paul would end this. And only Paul would reverse the cancerous growth in the executive

Sure, Kucinich would too, but he isn’t getting anywhere in the Democratic party. They only want to select another corporatist who would either continue the occupation/exploitation or expand it.

so now the corporatist apologists have to attack Paul on any front they can.

Thanks for pointin' out to those of us regs at the Koufax Award winnin' lefty blog that there's a Democrat who's an anti-corporatist.

Beats the shit outta the GOP, where there are 9 out-and-out corporatists and 1 corporatist enabler.

Avid Reader @ 16:

RockmanEnough @ 6:

below_me @ 5:

every time i step into a church, i choke on the hypocrisy.

Your hypocrisy, or the church's? :-)

Why go?

donuts and coffee afterwards?

beer and pretzels?

truth b told--

what koolaid are you drinking?

obama would do everything paul and kucinich push for, or at least he'd also push in those directions...

the only thing good about paul is his opposition to the war, and every dem opposes and will put an end to the illegal war.

paul was an earmarker thug in DC, just like the rest....now the party is letting him play the clown so there is some release valve for the anti-war sentiment..

Quit picking on the non-evolutionist non-believers.

Remember 'Walk a mile in their shoes........?'

Ya gotta remember, if your parents were troglodytes, your mind seems to wander around the era of A.D./B.C controversy, and you don't know the difference, your polite contemporaries refer to you as 'quaint', you can't comprehend the word 'monosyllabic', reading and writing is a foreign language to you, and you have trouble spelling 'US', you would probably have your doubts about evolution,too, if you hadn't experienced it.

Then, if you became a 'christian', and found out all the world's knowledge was compacted into one book, could get an illustrated version so you didn't have to learn to read, and memorized certain weird phrases like, 'John, 3:81', and could repeat them, your doubts about evolution would be replaced with certainty, as your new-found 'friends' and fellow sheep told you it was 'the Devil's Work', you would learn to shout and stamp your feet and denounce evolution at every opportunity.

And you would be right. In your new-found universe, there would be no evidence of evolution.

lopaloo @ 35:

truth b told--

what koolaid are you drinking?

obama would do everything paul and kucinich push for, or at least he'd also push in those directions...

the only thing good about paul is his opposition to the war, and every dem opposes and will put an end to the illegal war.

paul was an earmarker thug in DC, just like the rest....now the party is letting him play the clown so there is some release valve for the anti-war sentiment..

bullshit. None of the others, excepting Kucinich would end the war, or reverse the decrees Herr Bush has enacted. None of the others would reverse the Patriot Act, none would reverse the wiretapping, none would reverse the MCA, the PD-51, or any of the abuses of this government. See, I don't say administration - because the Democrats are enablers and cowards for not opposing these abuses. THEY keep sending funding bills to this soft-style dictator.

The way I see it, if the corporate MSM is pushing a candidate - they are bought and paid for, and they represent the elite/financial interests in this country. All of the candidates - save Paul and Kucinich - are fronts for the real control in this country. The candidates that are a threat to the political-financial establishment are the ones that are marginalized, ignored, and limited in exposure.

Study the works of Clinton's favorite teacher, Carroll Quigley, to learn how the parties have been coopted and work together in singular purpose, while fronting tertiary emotional issues that divide the populous. The works are Tragedy and Hope, and the Anglo-American Establishment.

lopaloo @ 38:

I will pray for you, Avid Reader and Truth B.....

Paul is to Huckabee as Obama is to Dean

They don't let black men (or women) into the rich white boy club....so let go of your conspiracy baloney....(remember, Paul has been in the DC rich white boy club for some time)

Obama is the only hope for change

LOL. Black men have sold out their own race since they were house-slaves back on the plantations, or African warlords selling their race into bondage during the early slave trade.
There are many African-Americans who sell out their race every day.

lopaloo @ 42:

avid reader,

how is it you read crooks and liars AND listen to Limbaugh.

Or do you prefer Hew Hewitt?

Why do you debate people using Rush's techniques. What you just did was create a "strawman".

I listen Air America Radio and I like Alex Jones and I listen to NPR. I watch C-SPAN's Washington Journal every morning.

I'm not a religous person. As a matter of fact, I think the organized religion is the greatest scam ever.

I like Barrack Obama but because he's part of the Chicago Political machine, he can never be a true agent of change. He is my senator and I've been upset that he's chosen to campaign rather than take care of business in Washington. I mean . . . .what has he done as a Senator besides wax eloquently?

Truth B Told @ 34:

Andy K @ 31:

Truth B Told @ 22-

great perspective. you’re right. Only Paul would end this. And only Paul would reverse the cancerous growth in the executive

Sure, Kucinich would too, but he isn’t getting anywhere in the Democratic party. They only want to select another corporatist who would either continue the occupation/exploitation or expand it.

so now the corporatist apologists have to attack Paul on any front they can.

Thanks for pointin' out to those of us regs at the Koufax Award winnin' lefty blog that there's a Democrat who's an anti-corporatist.

Beats the shit outta the GOP, where there are 9 out-and-out corporatists and 1 corporatist enabler.

funny, I thought the name of this blog was Crooks and Liars - fits the democratic party too I believe. But then, I believe that there is only one party...the corporatist party with two faux opposition wings.

clean up the corporatists and collaborators in your own party before you try to take on one of the few Americans who have opposed his own party.

Go through the C&L archives and look at every candidate that this site has supported- they're all Democrats!

And maybe you and Paul should clean up your own party, ya know, the GOP, with whom Paul caucuses. Maybe you can start by postin' at LGF, Captain's Quarters...oh, snap! They won't let you post pro-Paul stuff at all, will they? Hey, maybe now that he's an outed creationist they won't have a problem.

WOOOOooooWHOOOooooo....It's Ron Paul time(come along kiddies, sing along(howdeedoodee time)...It's RoNpaUl Time....It's Ronee Pauly time.....ok enough of that....ehhhhhh....Environmental issues...Tell me oh wise and willy Paulettes.....How do you feel about His stance on the envronment?....hope you've done your research...

Truth B Told @ 41:

lopaloo @ 38:

This race ain't about race, so can it!

obama is a corporatist, plain and simple. he makes no race-based claims AFAIK. Colonic powell and condimelda rice are of the same mold. opportunists! Are boosh or ronpaul considered white sellouts? I doubt it, so cut the race crap. Hillary and Obama are both corporatist sellouts. One is a woman, the other a black man. Neither sells out a race or gender. they both sell out America.

mudshark @ 47:

WOOOOooooWHOOOooooo....It's Ron Paul time(come along kiddies, sing along(howdeedoodee time)...It's RoNpaUl Time....It's Ronee Pauly time.....ok enough of that....ehhhhhh....Environmental issues...Tell me oh wise and willy Paulettes.....How do you feel about His stance on the envronment?....hope you've done your research...

Environment?

Until the constitution is restored to its proper balance, and until the soft form of fascism that plagues this country is uprooted - the Patriot Act, MCA, the warrantless wiretaps, the Haliburton-Carlisle-Blackwater trinity, the Orwellian doublespeak laundry list of "No Child Left Behind"-types, and a myriad of other MORE IMPORTANT issues - such as Iran/Iraq/9-11 is addressed, I see no immediate compelling reason to divert to environmental concerns.

that is, unless you want a clean sylvan view from your reeducation cell, or on the way to the Haliburton "emergency refugee camps."

lopaloo @ 44:

moderator, moderator, eliminate that offensive post

keep it polite and genteel, my good fellow interlocutors...

madame moderator, i ask that you remind the gentle fellow tyree that though we may disagree, we need to remain civil and impersonal.

lopaloo @ 44:

moderator, moderator, eliminate that offensive post

keep it polite and genteel, my good fellow interlocutors...

madame moderator, i ask that you remind the gentle fellow tyree that though we may disagree, we need to remain civil and impersonal.

I think there are those that believe that we must unite to put any Democrat into the Whitehouse. I think there is a rational reason to do this considering how evil the Republicans have been.

I'm not supporting the person Dr. Paul, I'm supporting the idea of freedom. I don't engage in idolatry . . . I am part of the solution . . . I am part of the media . . . I am one of the leaders. Ron Paul is simply riding the wave.

He will end the war . . . he can do this as chief executive . . . he can't kill social security (how do you kill something that doesn't exist?) . . . he can't and never would institute national christianity . . . he will end the war, he will end the war, he will end the war.

mudshark @ 50:

lopaloo @ 48:

COIntelPro

if you are correct, and Obama did indeed support Lieberman over Lamont, that may be a fatal flaw.

paruumph...i can't believe it.

i will look into it.

What an astonishing miscalculation on Obama's part.

WOW.

I could be wrong about this...but damn near the whole party stumped for Liberman..........not everyone but close.....I know DiFi and Boxer did.....and I let Boxer Know it..DiFi is beyond saving.

please check DiFi's fascist voting record and her support of telecom immunity as well as her husband's role as war profiteer. Boxer has a mixed record (at best) on progressive issues. you are referring to the richest corporatists among the dems. They will continue to sell you down the tubes and label it 'compromise' and 'caucusing with the opposition'.

Truth B Told @ 51:

mudshark @ 47:

WOOOOooooWHOOOooooo....It's Ron Paul time(come along kiddies, sing along(howdeedoodee time)...It's RoNpaUl Time....It's Ronee Pauly time.....ok enough of that....ehhhhhh....Environmental issues...Tell me oh wise and willy Paulettes.....How do you feel about His stance on the envronment?....hope you've done your research...

Environment?

Until the constitution is restored to its proper balance, and until the soft form of fascism that plagues this country is uprooted - the Patriot Act, MCA, the warrantless wiretaps, the Haliburton-Carlisle-Blackwater trinity, the Orwellian doublespeak laundry list of "No Child Left Behind"-types, and a myriad of other MORE IMPORTANT issues - such as Iran/Iraq/9-11 is addressed, I see no immediate compelling reason to divert to environmental concerns.

that is, unless you want a clean sylvan view from your reeducation cell, or on the way to the Haliburton "emergency refugee camps."

you're right....the environment isn't important.....of course all the issues you stated are very important.....and the environment..isn't one of them.....too you.

mudshark @ 57:

Truth B Told @ 51:

mudshark @ 47:

WOOOOooooWHOOOooooo....It's Ron Paul time(come along kiddies, sing along(howdeedoodee time)...It's RoNpaUl Time....It's Ronee Pauly time.....ok enough of that....ehhhhhh....Environmental issues...Tell me oh wise and willy Paulettes.....How do you feel about His stance on the envronment?....hope you've done your research...

Environment?

Until the constitution is restored to its proper balance, and until the soft form of fascism that plagues this country is uprooted - the Patriot Act, MCA, the warrantless wiretaps, the Haliburton-Carlisle-Blackwater trinity, the Orwellian doublespeak laundry list of "No Child Left Behind"-types, and a myriad of other MORE IMPORTANT issues - such as Iran/Iraq/9-11 is addressed, I see no immediate compelling reason to divert to environmental concerns.

that is, unless you want a clean sylvan view from your reeducation cell, or on the way to the Haliburton "emergency refugee camps."

you're right....the environment isn't important.....of course all the issues you stated are very important.....and the environment..isn't one of them.....too you.

I never said it wasn't important. I just don't put it in front of those items I mentioned.

Just because my priorities don't put the environment at "first-tier" level, doesn't mean I don't value the need for environmental actions. I would rather put my energies and finances to restoring the Constitution and ending the imperial actions of this government.

From what I've seen and read, there is not ONE candidate from either party that has even the slightest idea what a majority of Americans want them to do or stand for. They are trying to sell themselves to you like a used car salesman. They don't want you to elect them to a mandate. They want your vote so they can implement their own mandates. Quite the difference. Whether they believe in God, or Jeebus, or Monty Python's Holy Grail is irrelevant at this point. Until someone runs with the honest conviction to do what the people who voted him/her in to do, it is pointless to go onto websites and cheerlead for any particular person or party. What have the Dems done in the last 30 years when elected? NOTHING for middle class America. What have the ReTHUGs done when elected? NOTHING for middle class America.

David @ 58:

You guys trying to knock Dr. Paul here are really stretching. Take a contentious issue that leverages on belief, whether we are here by "evolution" or by "God's hand" which by its very nature pits contrary ideas against each other, where both could ultimately be true for all we know and that no-one, as with any religion -- and that's what evolution theory is in the end, a belief about how the world has unfolded to date, so it places it in the realm of a philosophic belief -- and then use it as, what, an indication of why Hillary would be better for this country, because she's a Godless secularist?

Match that up with how cultural elites in the past have used many of the evolutionary theories of Darwin to justify eugenics -- because of course some people were/are more evolved than others and we don't want to poison the tribe -- and I get a sense where the Democratic America under a Hillary or Obama is going: A scientific police state where political correctness runs wild. Where everyone can have beliefs as long as the state has approved them.

You can only have totalitarian governments in Godless states -- ie the former USSR and North Korea -- where the state is the ultimate arbiter of what is and what is not acceptable thought. America with its War on Terror is half way there in terms of state approved terms of reference, and it appears the Democrats would take it the rest of the way. After all, the Republicans are pretty aweful but they would never attack the church, at least directly. You people sound like you are OK with people believing in God just as long as their beliefs perfectly match yours. If they don't believe exactly like you, though, burn them at the stake.

But it is good. For those with somewhat open minds, the shrill nature of your comments will open others eyes to exactly what the real threat is, and it isn't Dr. Paul. It's again, I suppose, that some minds supporting "Democratic" principles haven't quite evolved enough, I suppose.

hahahahaah
hahahaahah
hahahahaah

I think you meant to click on raptureready.com not crooksandliars.com

Truth B Told @ 17:

Ron Paul's comment about evolution or creationism leaves a lot of room for scientific discussion.

there are lots of areas of science where there isn't an absolute certainty. At least he isn't pushing his views or forcing his belief system on others.

I agree, this is the way I interpret his statement. However, I'm not sure how to interpret the article linked by the first commenter. He does indeed seem to be incorrect about the supposedly Christian leanings of the founders...

I'm still a fan of Paul overall, but I think he's wrong on this one.

lopaloo @ 35:

truth b told--

what koolaid are you drinking?

obama would do everything paul and kucinich push for, or at least he'd also push in those directions...

the only thing good about paul is his opposition to the war, and every dem opposes and will put an end to the illegal war.

paul was an earmarker thug in DC, just like the rest....now the party is letting him play the clown so there is some release valve for the anti-war sentiment..

The dems may put an end to the "illegal war" but what about the overall tone that foreign policy has taken in recent years? Will they also put an end to American interference in foreign affairs? Such as orchestrating coups to overthrow democratically elected leaders? Such as the maintenance of a militaristic empire around the globe?
Would they cut the spending on all that and reallocate it to domestic priorities?

Maybe. But I doubt it.

So yeah, Ron Paul says evolution is a theory!...Wow! (new to me!)

So now I can say I disagree with him on two fronts...I'm pro choice and I think there is plenty of evidence for evolution...

I'm still votin for him though, although the ice is a little thinner

I'm curious...are there any candidates (for president) that are not religious?

Can I still trust him to keep a separation between church and state?

mudshark @ 66:

debaser71 @ 1:

Ron Paul is in step with the religious right. Read his views on what he thinks the constitution means, his faulty knowledge of history, and his whacky interpretations of the intent of the founding fathers. Ron Paul is a loon.

"The War on Religion" by Ron Paul

http://www.lewrockwell.com/paul/paul148.html

December 30, 2003"

Truth be told.......you want this guy^...right?

Yes, I do. But not for his religious beliefs. I wouldn't care if he was an agnostic, pagan, evangelical christian, or muslim.

I do disagree with his assessment of the Founding Fathers wanting a Christian nation. Many of them were Deists, not Christians.

Avid Reader @ 70:

The worthless dot com wealth was transferred to the worthless housing wealth.

Exactly, yet still people like to pretend it was some kind of Clinton economic miracle. All he did was get his cigar waxed while his wife pretended to wanna fix healthcare. They floated, and now people say how great they did. They did little to nothing, just like the ReTHUGs. At least with ReTHUGs you know they are gonna screw you. With the Dems they do it sneakier.

Avid Reader @ 73:

milquetoast @ 69:

So yeah, Ron Paul says evolution is a theory!...Wow! (new to me!)

So now I can say I disagree with him on two fronts...I'm pro choice and I think there is plenty of evidence for evolution...

I'm still votin for him though, although the ice is a little thinner

I'm curious...are there any candidates (for president) that are not religious?

Can I still trust him to keep a separation between church and state?

As president, Ron Paul will not eliminate the theory of evolution. Flight is also a theory but I still get on the plane.

The Clintons dine with the Bushs and the Bin Ladens join them for cocktails.

avid reader

now i see, you can't get over clintons bj...

i bet you RP has some good dirty underwear in his closet.... just never had two houses of congress rifling through it....

voting against clintons libido got you gwb....now it's pushing you to paul?

I hate to be the messenger on this one, since every single person who believes in evolution hates this:

Why do they call it a "Missing Link" if it is needed to prove Evolution?

Conversely, ask a Creationist Christian this:

KJV, Genesis 1:28:

And God blessed them, and God said unto them, "Be fruitful and multiply and replenish the earth, and subdue it:..."

Why is God telling the first man and woman on the planet -- Adam and Eve -- to "do it again?"

Replenish v.: 1. To fill or make complete again; add a new stock or supply to

That's why I converted to Buddhism -- It is what it is...

As for answering what Ron Paul would have to say...I think that falls under the "personal belief' category, and beliefs are choices. Choices fall under the 'individuality' group, since your choices are the aggregate of who you are in the physical realm; with that in mind, Choices are Free Will being flexed, and as long as it doesn't compromise any other person's Choice, it would be permissible to believe in anything in Ron Paul land...

Glad to see this site welcomes competing ideas and permits disagreement.

Not true for all lefty blogs.

IMO, the left tends to prefer rigid orthodoxy. Repugs, OTOH, are pragmatic and flexible...whatever works to their economic advantage.

mudshark @ 83:

ConcernedCanuck @ 68:

mudshark @ 62:

ConcernedCanuck @ 61: the dems got the country in the black.......for starters.

Did they? Did they really? From what I understand, what they did was have a phoney, unreal, corrupt, FAKE eonomic boom that just happened to crash down AFTER their term was done. It was a "technology boom" where the only real cash was worthless paper, at least that is what happened, did it not? You don't have massive profit one year, and bang, debt in the trillions the next. It was an electronic shifting of massive proportions of cash from the poor and middle class, to the rich. Oh sure, some mid class made some money too, but that wasn't supposed to happen. All economic indicators show that it wasn't real. But people keep pretending it was. Sorry, and there is no Santa Claus either.</blockquote http://www.environmentalcaucus.org/ http://www.environmentalcaucus.org/ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clean_Air_Act http://www.epa.gov/region5/water/cwa.htm these are just a few of the things the Dems have done... http://www.whitehouse.gov/history/presidents/bc42.html and this one is about Bill Clintons legacy....both economic and environmental

This is a perfect quote for the times:
America - Capitalism for the Rich, Socialism for the Poor.
Looks as if the Rich are trying to pull the Socialism rug from underneath those who need it...

Eric in Ottawa @ 81:

Lollimom @ 77:

And to hear the Paul bots here try and worm their ways into our hearts is even more sickening (I love how they refer to his as "Dr." Paul, instead of republican Bizarro Paul).

I'll ignore the rest of your hyperbole, but I feel that this particular part of your comment is ludicrous.

People refer to Ron Paul as Dr. Paul because Dr. is his title.
This is no different than people referring to Hillary Clinton as Sen. Clinton. Would you prefer we start referring to our dear friend Hillary by something less dignified? I'm sure that could be arranged, but that would be pretty stupid and pointless, would it not?

Grow up.

republican Bizarro Paul has zero chance of becoming the president of the United States. He's a goofy republican rightest who wants to dismantle the country even more than the current regime has dismantled it.

All of you republican Bizarro Paul bots need to go find another blog to infest. You people are as cult-like about your goofy candidate as the cultists who used to pass out flowers at the airports.

And now that we know republican Bizarro Paul denies evolution, it proves that all of you followers are in denial about how wacked out this guy is.

ad hominems, strawmen and red herrings abound.

Ron Paul M.D. will end the war.

obama will end the war AND he has not been in DC long enough to've been corrupted

(forgive me, but hasn't paul been there since forever...and this is the government he left us with?)

wasn't he an earmarking thug (err..i mean gentleman) for all that time...

yeah...

least obama is fresh

Avid Reader @ 88:

ad hominems, strawmen and red herrings abound.

Ron Paul M.D. will end the war.

you really think rp is going to end this war asap...think again..Boosh painted us into a corner..we can't get out now...not for a couple of years.Sure we can reduce our presence there...all the candidates are saying that...but to pull out completely.....not for a couple of years...Boosh really screwed the nation good.Hey I'm all for getting the hell out of Iraq asap....but reality is something altogether different.

You will never have a proper debate when presenters formulate the question as "believing" in Evolution, I've never heard anyone ask the question if someone believes in gravity. Believing in a scientific theory is irrelevant, either a theory gives us a working model of what we observe or it doesn't.

Ask candidates if they if they object to the concept of evolution by natural selection and if yes, why. Follow up question: Does the candidate object to the scientific method itself?

mudshark,

don't sully the savior with evidence of his long-ago having betrayed the faith, eviscerated the very creed he puts forth today.....

it's not fair, we won't hear it

mudshark @ 92:

Avid Reader @ 88:

ad hominems, strawmen and red herrings abound.

Ron Paul M.D. will end the war.

you really think rp is going to end this war asap...think again..Boosh painted us into a corner..we can't get out now...not for a couple of years.Sure we can reduce our presence there...all the candidates are saying that...but to pull out completely.....not for a couple of years...Boosh really screwed the nation good.Hey I'm all for getting the hell out of Iraq asap....but reality is something altogether different.

Yes, he will.

and his ideas delectable

Lollimom @ 86:

Eric in Ottawa @ 81:

Lollimom @ 77:

And to hear the Paul bots here try and worm their ways into our hearts is even more sickening (I love how they refer to his as "Dr." Paul, instead of republican Bizarro Paul).

I'll ignore the rest of your hyperbole, but I feel that this particular part of your comment is ludicrous.

People refer to Ron Paul as Dr. Paul because Dr. is his title.
This is no different than people referring to Hillary Clinton as Sen. Clinton. Would you prefer we start referring to our dear friend Hillary by something less dignified? I'm sure that could be arranged, but that would be pretty stupid and pointless, would it not?

Grow up.

republican Bizarro Paul has zero chance of becoming the president of the United States. He's a goofy republican rightest who wants to dismantle the country even more than the current regime has dismantled it.

All of you republican Bizarro Paul bots need to go find another blog to infest. You people are as cult-like about your goofy candidate as the cultists who used to pass out flowers at the airports.

And now that we know republican Bizarro Paul denies evolution, it proves that all of you followers are in denial about how wacked out this guy is.

No thanks. I'll continue to read Crooks and Liars and continue to comment where I see fit.
I'm respectful about it, which is more than I can say about you.

Why do I read this blog? I'm Liberal. Just because I think Ron Paul would be best for the USA does not mean that I'm Republican. Not everybody pledges loyalty to a political party and is afraid to vote otherwise. Some people are a little more open minded than that.

Happy holidays to you and yours.

VietVet8666 @ 101:

Avid at 93

Just ordered the book from Amazon. Thanks.

I haven't ordered it myself, but am familiar with the Bilderberg organization and its American/English clones.

avid

i am an independent liberal....i will likely abstain from an election if Clinton and/or Edwards are top dog....they are corrupt old hacks

don't get me wrong, i think every repub is nuts (including paul, though i don't mean to call names)....

Avid Reader @ 53:

lopaloo @ 44:

moderator, moderator, eliminate that offensive post

keep it polite and genteel, my good fellow interlocutors...

madame moderator, i ask that you remind the gentle fellow tyree that though we may disagree, we need to remain civil and impersonal.

lopaloo @ 44:

moderator, moderator, eliminate that offensive post

keep it polite and genteel, my good fellow interlocutors...

madame moderator, i ask that you remind the gentle fellow tyree that though we may disagree, we need to remain civil and impersonal.

I think there are those that believe that we must unite to put any Democrat into the Whitehouse. I think there is a rational reason to do this considering how evil the Republicans have been.

I'm not supporting the person Dr. Paul, I'm supporting the idea of freedom. I don't engage in idolatry . . . I am part of the solution . . . I am part of the media . . . I am one of the leaders. Ron Paul is simply riding the wave.

He will end the war . . . he can do this as chief executive . . . he can't kill social security (how do you kill something that doesn't exist?) . . . he can't and never would institute national christianity . . . he will end the war, he will end the war, he will end the war.

so this is how it ends , glad i made it to the end!

ah milquetoast, to quote you

you are a (prejudiced) demobot…and the name of this blog is not (republican crooks and liars)

take off those blinders! ….The assault on your liberties is coming from both sides!!!!

and RP is no savior (he's on the R side)

Lets just wait and see...theres still time.And the repugs will surely drag out the dirt on him....just like they've been doing to Rudy and Romney(kinda like heckle and jeckle)........they will not tolerate RP dividing their party.

apathetic american?

On Christmas morning, I'm trying to save lost souls from wasting their votes on a false prophet (RP), and lead them to the promised one (obama)

I encourage debate, and welcome your presence in this forum, confident you will see the light

well, Evolution IS a theory, a remarkable attempt to address and to understand the processes that created biological diversity. BUT
any scientist will say that it is only a working hypothesis. Look at the new paradigms on the horizon! Expanding earth and the electrical theory of the universe!

time for my walk on the beach....Mele Kelikimaka..folks.

I posted this on the carpetbagger and I'll repost it here;

This thread is a perfect example of why I'm no longer a democrat. Does Ron Paul believe in evolution? Why should anyone even care? Do Hillary and Barak believe in a peaceful foreign policy or in neverending foreign wars? Do they believe in constitutional liberty or the "Patriot" and Military Commisions acts? Are they advocating what they truly believe or are they saying what their financial bakers in the military industrial complex tell them to say? Of course, they have no choice but to go after the big money since, unlike Ron Paul's supporters, few of you are willing to give them a dime. And with good reason. They're not worth a dime. Anybody can vote for the patriot act. No need to pay money for that.

Truly, you are all worrying about your beards while your heads are being placed on the chopping block.

Evolution? Give me a break

tyree @ 115:

lopaloo @ 114:

apathetic american?

On Christmas morning, I'm trying to save lost souls from wasting their votes on a false prophet (RP), and lead them to the promised one (obama)

I encourage debate, and welcome your presence in this forum, confident you will see the light

i too am gathering lost souls!!!!!!! dennis kucinich is the man!!!for 08!!!!!!!!

Yes he is. But he is not an approved Democratic candidate by the elite interests. Hence the poor media exposure, lack of invites to debates, and sparse time allotted during debates he is allowed to participate.

He is not a CFR/Trilateralist. so he is opposed. the elites cannot have someone upsetting their little game of deception - not even a well intentioned democrat.

Until the general public actually goes against the interest of the elites by voting apparently in their own interest - we will have more of the same. Its counter-intuitive yes, but its a political gambit that the elites haven't anticipated.

myiq2xu @ 103:

Does St. Paul believe in germs/bacteria/viruses? Or when he was still practicing medicine did he bleed his patients with leeches to remove the evil spirits? Does he think that bad air causes malaria?

Does he believe in genetics? Spontaneous generation? Numerology?

Does he think illness is caused by sin?

Personally I hope these GOP morons are cynically lying to fool the Luddite wing of their party, because if they really believe that horseshit that would be scary.

Excellent points. This statement on evolution was not uttered by someone one would want to have a beer with, such as George W. Bush. This was said by someone running for the highest office in the land. What makes his statement most egregious is that it comes from an individual that has not only a medical degree but with an undergraduate degree, his major, in biology!

Perhaps the circa 1960 movie Inherit the Wind, with Spencer Tracy and Frederic March, should be rereleased in theaters nationwide so that people today can see how ludicrous it is to deny that evolution is a valid scientific concept. When a question was asked of the Democrats some months ago about the importance of religion in their lives [as if that question should somehow be a litmus test for someone running for president] only Kucinich said that his beliefs are more spiritual than religious.

So many people in this country seem to be swept up in their enthusiasm for Paul that one wonders if they have, in their hysteria, closely examined his domestic policies that he has put forth. Would Paul's supporters be in favor of their elderly relatives being denied their Social Security checks? Paul's amazingly asinine statement regarding evolution, a statement uttered not in the early part of the 20th century but, amazingly, in the 21st century by a person with a medical degree [from an accredited institution of higher learning?], simply underscores Paul's credibility on other serious issues.

hey debaser,

If you have not read descent of man, origen of species, and the works of malthus,
then you do not know what you are talking about.

If you do not know how to correct for heteroskedacity in a multiple linear regression,
then you do not know what you are talking about.

if you cannot explain the difference between microevolution, which is obvious fact,
and macroevolution, which has never been observed in a peer reviewed NAS academic journal,
then you do not know what you are talking about.

many people just believe what you have been told, because you embrace the mainstream religion of secular humanism.

LETS STOP THE RELIGION BASHING AND FOCUS ON WHATS IMPORTANT: IMPEACHING PELOSI AND STOPPING HILLARY.

andrew @ 127:

CoIntelPro @ 12:

RockmanEnough @ 4:

why bash iran? that's baseless at best.

why not start in kansas? or tennesee? or mississippi? or massachussets?

No, actually Iran is a Theocratic State...with no tolerance for any view other than conformist Islam.

seems I've heard and read that Iran has a practicing Jewish population, with even a Jew in its elected body.

Who can name the one country in the world who has hundreds of military bases stationed in foreign countries and recently invaded a defenseless country in the hopes of acquiring its natural resources.

Any takers?

For me the most important issue regarding the 2008 presidential election is to consider what type of judges the new president will nominate and appoint. Ron Paul talks like a religious nutter and will appoint religious nutters to the supreme court and federal courts.

Care to talk about this issue or you gonna just hurl (religious themed) insults at everyone?

The most important issue is what judges he is going to nominate? Give me a break!

Not the wars and killing in Iraq and Afghanistan, not the ecomony or lack thereof, not the endless police state tactics being used against the public every day, all tendencies of empire Ron Paul has warned about for years and consistantly voted against. Unbelievable!

And by the way, I guess in your lexicon "religious nutter" is not a religiously themed insult because it is sort of a definition of your particular belief structure. And of course anyone who believes in God must be a religious nutter, right?

Still, my argument in an earlier post had less to do with the specific beliefs as the unwillingness of some to examine their beliefs openly without resorting to name calling, agressive attacking based on inuendo and on a rigid adherence to whatever the, in this case, Democratic talking points are this week.

Plus I note your two-faced tactics of using a religiously themed insult and then accusing me of doing the same thing when in fact I didn't. I am not surprized you weren't able to pick up on that, but I was merely observing what was going on and comparing it with a similar phenomenon. (Just because you believe I insulted you, doesn't mean I did except in perhaps your politically correct universe where anything I say can and will be used against me.)

Anyway, you guys are terrified because you thought you had a lock on the White House and then Dr. Paul comes along. Very much his own man, telling it like it is, sparking a serious discussion around issues that are critical to all our futures. With a whole grassroots organization behind him that all other candidates can only dream of. All of a sudden the White House doesn't look so certain, and this wave demanding change from the status quo is here, is widely dispersed throughout the public and will not allow business as usual in Washington any longer. What is going on here is far bigger than one man and his beliefs around one contentious and difficult to answer for anyone issue. And this movement toward the reallignment of political power back to where the founders said it should lie -- with the people -- will not be disappearing any time soon.

Daniel @ 133:

Truth B Told @ 17:

Ron Paul's comment about evolution or creationism leaves a lot of room for scientific discussion.

there are lots of areas of science where there isn't an absolute certainty.

And Evolution is not one of them ;)

God does not play dice with the Universe -- Albert Einstein

I guess that makes him a religious nutter too, eh?

and the Flinstones proves that man and dinosaur coexisted peacefully. It was Bush who said:

"I know the fish and human being can coexist peacefully"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o7fo98SzCGo

Daniel @ 133:

Truth B Told @ 17:

Ron Paul's comment about evolution or creationism leaves a lot of room for scientific discussion.

there are lots of areas of science where there isn't an absolute certainty.

And Evolution is not one of them ;)

Says who?

Careful, your arrogance is showing.

David @ 97:

hahahahaah
hahahaahah
hahahahaah

I think you meant to click on raptureready.com not crooksandliars.com

Exactly. Fanatics on the democrat wing are as pious, as quick to offense and as quick to judge others unworthy when their beliefs systems are offended as any fundamentalist Christian. Hard to tell them apart sometimes.

When does calling someone crazy "crazy", calling a spade "a spade" become fanatical.

Unlike religion, in science there is judgement, and that's very good.

It is tiresome to hear the usual excuses for religious kookery used in the scientific context.

CoIntelPro @ 21:

Cantor de Mambo @ 10:

RockmanEnough @ 6:

below_me @ 5:

Your hypocrisy, or the church's? :-)

Why go?

Indeed, why do people go to church?

I go because I believe in my church and what it does and the people who do the doing!

Some of us do more than just sit and wait for marching orders or voting instructions.

Some of us give clothes and food to the needy, hot meals to the hungry, temporary respite to the weary, seek jobs for the unemployed, training for the uneducated, run boy scout troops, girl scout troops, youth leadership training, elderly outreach. There are 130 different programs in my church to benefit the participants and the community.

Anyone who really wants to can make a difference is what their church is and what it does and what it stands for. My church is full of people who embody the spirit of what is found in the bible.

That is not to try to make it sacred to you or even change your mind, just to let you know that there are people who congregate with a positive purpose and act on that purpose with positive intentions and produce positive results. I am grateful that THAT church was introduced to me for I now have a church home.

Maybe if you found a church that was about something other than jesus camp or mind altering, you'd at least have a more developed perspective.

Obviously, church is not for everyone.

One doesn't need a church to do good. Indeed, churches use doing good as a front for proselytizing, which is not good, in my view. Teaching people to believe in nonsense is quite bad, in fact. Leaving good deeds up to churches is wrong. It is the responsibility of all of us, whether we want to do good or not.

As for "sitting around waiting for marching orders or voting instructions," I assume that you think that people who don't go to church don't do good, we just sit about talking politics. Well, aren't you a self-righteous, self-important, god like creature? Isn't pride the deadliest of sins?

Daniel @ 141:

David @ 134:

Daniel @ 133:

Truth B Told @ 17:

And Evolution is not one of them ;)

God does not play dice with the Universe -- Albert Einstein

I guess that makes him a religious nutter too, eh?

That is a classic misinterpretation. Einstein did not believe in a personal God, and he made that very clear. He resented being misquoted on it, so please do him a favour and refrain.

Read the litany of his comments on the matter:

http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/God#E

To save you the trouble, I've pasted the most relevant one:

It was, of course, a lie what you read about my religious convictions, a lie which is being systematically repeated. I do not believe in a personal God and I have never denied this but have expressed it clearly. If something is in me which can be called religious, then it is the unbounded admiration for the structure of the world so far as our science can reveal it.

dmorbius @ 145:
Ah, there's the shining retort of a true Paulista. LOL.

Again, Ron Paul stans: Liberals will not vote for a Republican. It will not happen.

Lollimom @ 148:

milquetoast @ 107:

I think Ron Paul understands the importance of separation of church and state enough, ...I'm not worried really.

p.s. Lollymom...you are a (prejudiced) demobot...and the name of this blog is not (republican crooks and liars)

take off those blinders! ....The assault on your liberties is coming from both sides!!!!

The problem is republicans, republican Paul troll: That is the primary reason for C&L's existence. It's about crooks and liars, and republicans, like Paul, have practically cornered the market on deception. The assault on liberties has seldom reached the velocity it has today, and that is nearly 100% caused by republicans. republicans hate the middle and lower classes; I suspect this is why Paul is a republican.

The other thing you Bizarro Paul bots do is liken Kucinich to Paul, knowing full well that Democrat Dennis Kucinich's stand on just about everything (except the war) is 180 degrees opposite of republican Paul.

The two mix like water and vinegar, and you cultist Paul supporters are desperately trying to cloud the enormous differences between the two.

You come to this blog to intentionally pollute it with your cultist propaganda about a candidate who is republican, who doesn't believe in evolution (that alone is so f***ing revealing it's frightening), and to swarm like flies on dog-crap when somebody mentions Bizarro Paul's name.

Again: republican Paul will never be president of the United States.

From what I remember, Kucinich believes in UFO's so why not discount him the same way? In the end this is ridiculous, what matters is a person's platform on policies and their past record. If you'd read about Ron Paul you'd understand how he's not like any of the republicans at all, and they hate his guts. I mean if Bill Kristol can say that Ron Paul is anti-american and hates liberty then I think he's on the right track.

I was under the illusion that Democrats were going to be different from the republicans when they got into Congress. Unfortunately what I found out was that they are exactly the same, continuing to fund the war. And with people like Hilary and Obama refusing to commit to a complete withdrawal from Iraq immediately, and commiting themselves to using military in places like Pakistan and Iran, I see that there really is only ONE party. Having two parties just makes it feel like we have choices in this country.