FISA Debate Going On Now
By Nicole Belle Wednesday Jan 23, 2008 11:41amWe'll have video up later... You can stream C-Span2 at their site.
You can see video of Dodd's speech yesterday here.
I've asked for some clarification on the procedures and this is the information as I understand it:
Senator Reid is trying to make the Republicans filibuster on the floor today. If the Republicans want to impose 60 vote threshold on Dodd/Feingold's amendment (which Senator Reid supports as he remarked on the floor today) they will have to filibuster and run the time.
* Right now the Senators are debating the bill that came out of the Senate Judiciary Committee (SJC) as an amendment to the version that started from Senate Intelligence Committee (SIC) which doesn't contain the immunity provision
* There is no agreement in place with respect to whether a vote on the SJC version would be subjected to a 60 vote threshold.
* At 2 pm EST today the Republicans will move to table the SJC version which will be subjected to simple majority
* Senator Reid will oppose that motion to table
* If the motion to table SJC version is successful, we will revert back to SIC version which is the base bill
* At that point we are going to have debates on various amendments to that base bill:
o Senator Dodd/Feingold will be submitting their amendment against immunity which Senator Reid will support
o Senator Rockefeller/Bond will have their own amendments which includes their modifications from the SIC which includes an amendment submitted by Senator Wyden
o Other Senators will also look to submit various parts of legislation that came out of SJC as individual amendments
UPDATE: Russ Feingold gave HuffPo an interview: "I really do disagree" with Reid on FISA and the Courage Campaign looked at Dianne Feinstein's compromise er, "good faith" amendment to the FISA bill and found it...well, a bit lacking in essentials.
UPDATE #2: The Judiciary Committee FISA amendment (without immunity) was voted down 60 to 34. Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama were not present to cast votes.
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'No one/company is above the law, right?......let's see.
Let Bush do as he want to or we'll ALL DIE!
No matter what happens... thank you Senators Feingold and Dodd.
Man the phone folks, call Obama, Clinton and your own Senator's office, now. Ask them to stand up for the constitution or no votes for them!
Sounds like the candidates don't feel this is important enough to return to Washington from the campaign trail. Let them know you believe otherwise!
So, is there some hope? Has Reid seen the light?
galmud @ 2:
dont panic i got my lucky rabbits foot working for us!
The telecoms allowed themselves to be strong-armed by the thugs in the White House and broke the law. Period. No immunity for them or for Cheney/Bush.
FISA Debate Insult Watch
First Hatch insult (9:59 PST): refers to "conspiracy theorists".
FISA sounds like a competetor for Fresca
Like Coca-Cola and NOLA Cola
Or hawzabout a Dracola?
"Reid Challenges GOP to Filibuster Anti-Immunity Provision"
OMG, did President Clinton show em how to use a spine when he attacked corporate media?
getalife @ 10:
It's a loaner. Worry not, he'll be returning it soon.
FISA Debate Insult Watch
Second Hatch insult (10:05 PST): refers to “fringe political groups”.
wha? Make the Repubs ACTUALLY filibuster? how novel...
-BAH!
Doesn't seem like enforcing the laws of our country should be so complicated. They can make deciding if torture is wrong a complex issue though I guess.
if this democratic controlled congress allows the telecom immunity in the fisa bill
then all of congress will be taken outside and removed from office by any means
at hand. this is not the time to allow one more re-writing of the US CONSTITUTION.
American citizens have rights guaranteed in the Constitution. if congress and bush
illegally take away even try to take away one more, then the American citizens
have the right to overthrow any tyranny against the United States, including the
congress and the president/vp.
A fact not mentioned enough, is Bush started spying on us TWO weeks into his power grap, Feb 2000. 911 happened anyway. He should be impeached for incompidence.
ysbaddaden @ 9:
I think the Republicans will need Ricola especially if they are going to have to filibuster. :lol:
Went to the C-Span link and they are currently talking about their bailout/bribe to help/delay the inevitable, recession.
Any idea where the FISA hearing is?
c span2
MargeAggedon @ 3:
And Feinstein, you can bite me.
feinstein can suck jesus.
goatsage @ 18:
Why would the President NOT want FISA ?
I mean, if he's not doing anything "wrong" .........
What part of "Illegal" does he not understand ?
I get classical music when I click on the cspan 2 link?
Site Monitor: I have Kit Bond talking. Try again?
Ted Kennedy is up.
Go, Ted, go!
I just called Diane Feinstein's office (in San Diego; couldn't get through to her DC office) expressing my opposition to her "good faith" amendment. Gawd, what a crock 'o bull. How can she live with herself on this one? She's sure shaping up as a DINO, it seems.
Keepin' my fingers crossed, though. Let's hope Reid gets the message loud and clear: NO IMMUNITY FOR TELECOMS, plain and simple, end of discussion.
Keep up the good work, Nicole.
Orrin Hatch on the Senate floor, Dec. 17, 2007:
"How long are we going to entertain inadequate alternatives and appease fringe political groups?"
tyree @ 6:
Tyree, it wasn't so lucky for that rabbit.... But thanks for covering our backs! ;-)
Go Ted!
The vote on the Leahy Amendment, should be around two oclock.
dadams @ 21:
[deleted--over the top.]
Earlier today Sen. Durbin gave an outstanding speech. He talked about all the crooked stuff this administration has done. He even talked about the 900+ lies. It was almost like one of Kieth's specail comments.
JudyLou @ 28:
not to worry this rabbit gets around great on three leggs!
Man! It just seems they make up shit as they go along. Sixty vote agreement here, a simple majority there. Don't they have a manual that they can refer to?
i hate how they keep saying "this might make them too worry about doing" such and such.... when the point of hte over sight is that they're doing their job. If they're not fooling around, the over sight won't affect them.
What's the best action plan for us? Call Reid's office, I assume. (The phone lines tend to be busy.)
I'd like to say that I am holding my breath in anticipation of the outcome being in favor of WE THE PEOPLE.
Unfortunately, I can't hold my breath for very long these days.
The Democan'ts should be spending their time impeaching the crooks and liars in the White House. (Yes, I know that the House should be doing that.) If Pelosi was doing her job the Repugs might be back-pedaling a bit instead of causing as much damage as they can to the Constitution and the world-at-large.
In defense of Harry Reid, he is following the decorum of the Senate in allowing the Republicans the opportunity to fillibuster. This is the way the Senate is SUPPOSED to work. We're upset because the GOP never practiced Rules of Order, bipartisanship or even plain old good manners. We are NOT them.
We stand for the rules. We stand up for our principles, even when it appears that we are "capitulating". We are NOT the GOP.
I have no problem with the progression of events as outlined. The fact is that the longer the discussion goes, the more likely it will stay in the news, the more people will see it, and the more likely more people will rise up in opposition.
Of course, if that happens...the Dems can make the "GOP is holding up our ability to fight terrorism to protect the phone companies" argument.
Motion to table Judiciary Committee substitute.
Liberal AND Proud @ 31:
Why? All the words I used are in the dictionary? ;)
Let Bush do as he want to or we’ll ALL DIE!
Are your Ducks Taped?
Feingold is America's greatest political asset at present.
Feinstein is a Neocon in Donkey drag.
Hope that Cindy Sheehan beats Nancy in 08 if Nancy won't impeach.
Yes folks, it is all related.
HotShot @ 42:
No...but my plastic is sheeted.
Mikulski ("aye") can go stuff it.
Lieberman ("aye") can go stuff it.
Inouye ("aye") can go stuff it.
Nelson of FL ("aye") can go stuff it.
Ammendment fails. The Senate, FAILED
so was it tabled then?
60 votes. Tabled.
what happens now?
Tried to contact Obama reference FISA but calls go directly to message or they answer and put you on hold. If appears that Obama does not consider this an important issue!! Guess that Clinton will be a no show also. Tis a shame Edwards has been dismissed by the main stream media as his election people can't get his message out to the general public. His message, on his web site, reference FISA, will never get beyond the web site.
60 votes to table the judiciary version of the bill?!? that is bizackasswards isn't it? Wasn't that the version w/o immunity we were all fighting 4 & at least 9 "democrats" voted 2 kill it. WTF indeed
Per Daily Kos:
... the debate and amendments will revert back to the Senate intelligence committee's bill, which has a retroactive immunity provision.
Then the fireworks will start with a number of amendments, among them Sens. Chris Dodd's (D-CT) and Russ Feingold's (D-WI), which would to strip the immunity from the bill. Reid says that he supports this bill. Additionally, Reid reiterated today that Republicans will have to actually filibuster if they want to stop any of the amendments from getting a simple majority vote.
And somewhere over the rainbow of the afterlife, Ben Franklin is thinking.. 'Well, guess they couldn't keep it after all'..... Trading democracy, liberty and freedom of thought for security... And just how freeking secure does anyone feel with Dick and George running things??? yea...right...(cough) bullshit (cough)...
As for Feinstein and all the rest of the gutless? Got nothin good to say about any of them so I won't say any more at all..........JD
Rockefeller is now trying to offer an extension of protections to US citizens overseas as a cover for keeping immunity.
Dipshit.
Here's Rottenfeller, reading from a document emailed to him this morning by the telecoms.
whats so different in the amendments that make the dems think it will pass?
In other words, the rules that the gov't and telecoms won't have to obey and will have immunity for after they do it anyway will not protect citizens outside the US just as much as they don't protect those inside the US.
As I wrote: dipshit.
Went and checked out some of the right-wing blogs. All say the teleco's broke no laws, surprize! If they broke no laws why do they need immunity then?
From what I understand, what's happening now is typical. If the original sponsor of a bill wants to make a few last-minute changes before it's considered, he or she gets to propose the first amendments. Since this POS bill is Rockefeller's, he's going first.
Can anyone verify that this really is typical?
Also, the Senate's website hasn't been updated (contrary to their claim that it is every 20 minutes), so can anyone verify that Obama and Clinton weren't there for the table vote?
Nicole Belle: Clinton and Obama were not present for the vote.
Kit Bond is now explaining how he isn't smart enough to do his job.
Admitting that he doesn't understand FISA is an interesting ploy.
Dipshit #2.
There is no doubt about it. This is about keeping Bush & Company out of prison. His 2 lap dogs Nancy Pelosi & Harry Reid will be more then happy to roll over and give him what he wants.
SOS with these people.
Kit Bond - Idiot
Russ Feingold - Genius
Feingold is now proposing that when the gov't makes a plea to the FISC, it must be reported to Congress (as opposed to being secret, as is it now). How else can Congress see how the laws it has passed are being interpreted.
Obvious.
Therefore, not in the original IC bill (but, of course, in the JC bill).
Every Senator who votes to give the telecoms that committed crimes immunity should spend the rest of their lives in a prison cell.
Bond wants us to trust the intelligence community to do the right thing.
R-i-i-i-i-i-ght.
In the words of Glenn Greenwald:
"Neither Clinton nor Obama bothered to show up for any of this."
Remember, when one of them is elected President, the past is prologue.
According to the website openleft dot com Hillary Clinton will NOT be returning to Washington to help Chris Dodd fight for the 4th amendment. I guess Hillary likes to talk change, not DO change. This tells you everything you need to know concerning what her Presidency will be like.
I've called Barack Obama's office REPEATEDLY and told him to get his ass back to Washington and FIGHT G*ddamit for the 4th amendment.
I've told Barack's office that millions of us in the left-wing are undecided. We need to see some of this 'Change' he's talking about. For millions of us mere words are not enough.
And with Hillary not coming back to Washington this could be a COUP for Obama. He could steal the media spotlight as the true agent of change.
You cannot underestimate it, this could win him the Democratic nomination.
So continue calling his office. 1-800-828-0498 (ask the operator to connect you).
While you're at it call EVERY senator and tell them to support Chris Dodd. Be relentless. No excuses. You have time to make a call.
http://www.openleft.com/showDiary.do?diaryId=3401
Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama were not present to cast votes because Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama are dirtbags. . .
the Republics are not the only problem
the Democrats are a HUGE part of the problem with America
Corruption rules America
Quoting from Hillary's comments on FISA in October, 2007:
Q: Can you discuss your position on the reauthorization of the FISA bill?
HRC: I am troubled by the concerns that have been raised by the recent legislation reported out of the Intelligence Committee. I haven't seen it so I can't express an opinion about it. But I don't trust the Bush Administration with our civil rights and liberties. So I'm going to study it very hard. As matters stand now, I could not support it and I would support a filibuster absent additional information coming forward [in the form of a big fat donation to my campaign from the telecoms] that would convince me differently.
Obama doesn't deserve the nomination. He has already proven (for the second time) that he doesn't give a damn about this issue. When it comes to the constitution -- the very foundation of this nation's rule of law -- Obama, the erstwhile lecturer on constitutional law, has been a failure. Hypocrisy rules supreme for Mr. Hope and Change.
You want a president who will fight for our consitutional rights, who KNOWS how to fight? The only choice is John Edwards.
But then, you already knew that.
Feingold raises his voice: "This argument has no merit!"
Go, Russ, go! He's not bought and paid for.
I just contacted Senator Reid's office to tell him how dissappointed I am in his decision to undermine the Judiciary commitee's version of the bill. After explaining my position his aide spun it by telling me the same ol bs that Reid supports the Judiciary Bill. I challenged him to explain why he didn't bring the bill to the floor and brought the Intel committee bill to the floor, which I added was saying one thing and doing another, and he said "that's your opinion sir" I said "fine, would you like my name and address" which is normally asked for by the aides so they can write back on the Senators' official position and he said "I'm not the thought police so its up to you" Oh My God!!! So I explained why I asked if he would like the information and encouraged him not to be so glib with callers and constituents and told him thank you very much. He says then "I'll take that for what its worth" !!!!! WTF I am so over this fake ass sell out majority leader its not even funny!!!!
I guess Obama's just going to Hope (TM) that it doesn't pass. But he isn't going to do anything to make sure that it doesn't get through. As usual, Barackstar is all talk, no action. Maybe he can Hope(TM) the war in Iraq to peaceful conclusion while he's at it.
Kit Bond (Idiot-Missouri) must be seen to be believed. How is it possible for someone so stupid to have risen so high in public office.
Chris @ 75:
If he were even there, chances are he would just vote "present".
Has it even been mentioned that the Telcoms who only acted in "Good Faith" stopped their cooperation recently when the gubment checks were late.
JTM @ 61:
Yeah that's awesome. Only a politician could spin not having a clue into an asset.
Obama: change we can't beleive in.
What a fraud.
The Washington posts says:
"Barack Obama has missed 167 votes (37.7%) during the current Congress."
No frigging way should anyone vote for someone who is that cavalier about voting.
So once again, we have only a handful of Democrats who will stand up against this war -- Bush's War On Freedom.
ralph @ 70:
they are both part of the problems and yes this has mutated into a corporatocracy.
Terrible @ 65:
How about just tapping their phones and intercepting their emails and posting the transcript of every conversation on all of the Internets.
dirty d @ 74:
They've asked me for my name and address too. I said you gotta be F-ng kidding me! AT&T and the Government have been tapping ALL our phones illegally since before 9/11. You not only know my number but you probably have the transcripts of every call I've ever made! And now the Senator you answer the phones for is going to make this LEGAL FOREVER! I think I finally got through to the numbskull.
I had to step out. What "bipartisan consensus" are they babbling about?
And what's up with Wyden's lisp?
1:17 P.M (PST): It has turned into a Bond-Wyden-Whitehouse lovefest.
"* Right now the Senators are debating the bill that came out of the Senate Judiciary Committee (SJC) as an amendment to the version that started from Senate Intelligence Committee (SIC) which doesn’t contain the immunity provision"
The SJC (Leahy) bill is the one without immunity.
The SIC (Rockefeller) offers immunity.
You stated it backwards.
Where are the two front runners, Obama & Clinton? Oh I forgot, they are too busy trying to become our next President to even bother to show up and Vote! What a Joke!
Checkur6 @ 62:
The Speaker of the House and the rest of the Dem House leadership have refused to offer any kind of immunity this whole time.
You're lying.
We've been going at this all wrong. See, we've been individually sending in our piddly little $25 - $100 donations to the politicians of our choice, and compared to the big Corps with their deep pockets, this looks like chump change. So we get treated like chumps. Now if we'd just pool our money and give ourselves a corporate name -- I donno, something dignified and proper-sounding like Don't Peon U.S. -- we could buy our own congress people. Just like the Big Boys do.
...The brilliant Harvard educated mind of Barack Obama
I think you reserve impeachment for grave, grave breeches, and intentional breeches of the president’s authority,…I believe if we began impeachment proceedings we will be engulfed in more of the politics that has made Washington dysfunction,…We would once again, rather than attending to the people’s business, be engaged in a tit-for-tat, back-and-forth, non-stop circus.”
- Barack Obama explaining that lying our country to war, outing an undercover CIA agent, illegally wiretapping its citizens and torturing prisoners denied habeas corpus are not grave offenses.
Liberal AND Proud @ 39:
Nonsense. It is duty of the Senate leader to block bills which do not uphold the rule of law -- PERIOD.
Feinstein has got to go. I live in the Bay Area and I will NEVER again support her because she has now too often been unwilling to stand up to Bush and has too often favored the interests of big business over the interests and rights of US citizens. Never more.
Paul in LA @ 87:
So, it was introduced as an amendment after being tabled earlier? That's what I expected, but missed the transition.
I've never heard Whitehouse speak. He sounds sensible so far.
"...our establishment believes that any information that would shed light on whether our most powerful actors have broken the law is information that shouldn’t be disclosed. In those accidental cases when — via unauthorized leaks — information is disclosed that demonstrates that crimes have been committed, our establishment bands together to insist that nothing be done, that there is no need to investigate or hold anyone accountable, and that the only real wrongdoing is by those “the leakers” who disclosed the lawbreaking.
This is the same pattern seen over and over: leakers reveal that Bush broke the law for years by spying on Americans without the warrants required by law, and every investigation — legislative and judicial — is successfully blocked, and Congress then moves to legalize the lawbreaking."
- Glenn Greenwald, Salon
JR @ 93:
Too goddamned late. She doesn't come up for reelection until 2012, when she will be 79.
You should have never supported her in the first place -- she has never changed from what she has been this whole time, a DINO.
I just spoke to Clinton's office. The Hostile Idiot on the phone was, obviously, instructed not to give any answers, just to respond "uh-huh" at everything the callers say.
I asked her "Why is Senator Clinton not speaking on the floor of the Senate right this minute? She made statements she would support Senator Dodd because she is 'troubled' by the act of giving retroactive immunity to the telecoms that have been spying on us since February 2001. But she's not there. WHY NOT?"
"Well", said the H.I. on the phone, "I don't have her schedule sitting in front me. I can't tell you exactly where she is at this moment".
I said, "Well, I can tell you where she isn't: the Senate floor in Washington D.C.! I'd like to know how she can claim to support protecting our civil liberties when she is busy campaigning and fundraising far away from D.C. at this very moment. Please explain the rationale there."
H.I.: "uh -huh. Uh-huh...."
JTM @ 94:
You have inadvertently linked Nicole's text to my name.
Hillary Clinton on International Law
Senator Clinton’s hostility to international law and the UN system is perhaps best illustrated by her opposition to the International Criminal Court. In 2002, Senator Clinton voted in favor of an amendment by right-wing Senator Jesse Helms that prohibits the United States from cooperating in any way with the International Criminal Court, and its prosecution of individuals responsible for serious crimes against humanity, such as those responsible for the genocide in Darfur.
http://www.fpif.org/fpiftxt/4803
cygnusx1isahole @ 99:
The same bill that was sponsored in the House by L RON PAUL. Several times, in fact.
Hillary Clinton's Hawkish Record
"...she opposes the international treaty to ban land mines. She voted against the Feinstein-Leahy amendment last September restricting U.S. exports of cluster bombs to countries that use them against civilian-populated areas. She opposes restrictions on U.S. arms transfers and police training to governments that engage in gross and systematic human rights abuses, such as Egypt, Morocco, Saudi Arabia, Oman, Israel, Pakistan, Cameroon and Chad, to name only a few."
..."Mrs. Clinton has shown little regard for the danger from proliferation of nuclear weapons, not only opposing the enforcement of U.N. Security Council resolutions challenging Pakistan, Israel and India’s nuclear weapons programs but supporting the delivery of nuclear-capable missiles and jet fighters to these countries. This past fall she voted to suspend important restrictions on U.S. nuclear cooperation with countries that violate the Non-Proliferation Treaty."
http://www.commondreams.org/views07/0309-23.htm
JR @ 93 - Join the Courage Campaign. Demand she be investigated for helping her husband and his companies reap millions in defense contracts because of her Senate votes.
Paul in LA @ 100:
This is the same court that could hold a President who has committed war crimes accountable. Is Hillary's opposition to the court a gift to little Georgie? Or a future gift to her?
My G*d is Bond a pinhead. He's still saying that he doesn't understand FISA, but "luckily" there are smart people running the program.
Does he not know that, for example, Joseph Goebbels was a very smart person.
cygnusx1isahole @ 101:
Yes, she is running for president as strong on defense in what has been a rightwing climate of fearmongering.
Her own views may be different from those votes.
From Obama's Audacity of Hope:
"I would find myself in the curious position of defending aspects of Reagan's worldview," he writes. "I couldn't be persuaded that U.S. multinationals and international terms of trade were single-handedly responsible for poverty around the world; nobody forced corrupt leaders in Third World countries to steal from their people."
Quoted here.
There you have it. Be careful what you wish for.
cygnusx1isahole @ 103:
The ICC treaty has never been approved by the US Senate, and the treaty itself has been gutted, so the ICC currently has no jurisdiction over the US, or US warcriminals.
Her husband's envoy signed the treaty. So it is doubtful that she opposed the ICC, her votes notwithstanding.
running for prezniotwit and not being there for the people.
CoIntelPro @ 108:
Two more votes would not have changed anything.
Paul in LA @ 89:
Lying????
These 2 lapdogs have caved or rolled over for BushCo since Nov 07 and this will be no different. They will have a little pow-wow with bush and make a deal. Same ol shit different day!!
While it's seriously uncool for them not to be there, it wouldn't have made a difference. If pro-immunity has 60 votes, it just a question of whether one or more of the supporters will peel off when Dodd filibusters.
Right now, Bond is refusing to allow any new amendments to be addressed. Thus, until Reid steps in, we're wasting time.
The one honest candidate has quit the Presidential race...Dennis Kucinich is out. Shame on all of us. Now it looks like I won't even cast a vote.
Cardin up now fluffing Cheney and Rockefeller. Not succeeding with his phony performance about "getting it right".
What a failure this guy is. Mikulski failed as well. I feel sorry for all constituents in Maryland.
However, look at that 34 to 60 vote. That shows the MYTH that the Dems control the Senate. From the standing 25-75 split, we got nine votes from the waverers. Not enough.
Consider this fact when it comes to fantasies of an impeachment conviction.
They've just admitted that FISA is going to be a mess and they're going to do some other crap for a while.
Inhofe is up - to change the subject to - Yucca Mountain? Why didn't someone object to this clown talking for 15 minutes.
Oh goody. Feinstein just interrupted the FISA debate to give Insane Inhofe the floor so he could rave about how great nuclear energy is.
WTF??? IS anyone in charge here?
Checkur6 @ 110:
You are engaged in a fallacy of comparison. These are two separate bodies, and Speaker Pelosi is not at all the sort of person Leader Reid is.
I know, you just want your scapegoats, but that will be no different this time either.
cygnusx1isahole @ 103:
We the people could hold the President accountable for all his crimes IF we got off our asses and did something on a regular basis. First off is getting decent people with a backbone elected to Congress. Regular Joes, not career politicians.
Now let's NOT go off topic. The topic here is FISA, and who is HELPING in the Senate and who is NOT.
JTM @ 115:
Yep same old shit.
cygnusx1isahole @ 112:
Compare the Dem candidate with the R candidate (Bomb Bomb McCain).
Vote for Edwards in the primary.
Paul in LA @ 109:
Those two people could provide crucial help to Chris Dodd for his filibuster.
But most importantly, those two people bring the media with them wherever they go. If Hillary or Barack were there, and made a mad-as-hell speech on the 4th amendment, the media would've covered it. As it is, most Americans know NOTHING about this legislation. NOTHING. Remember there was a total media blackout for Dodd's first filibuster in December.
That's the media's goal. Keep this story contained. Keep people ignorant. Because they know if the public found out they'd become angry and activated.
Chris @ 119:
Congress, the House, is not the issue here -- immunity is not in the House bill.
The Senate takes three election cycles to change out, and electing 'ordinary Joes' to the Senate has never happened and will never happen.
The dem wing of the republikan party is about to screw us all. And there is not a damned thing any of us can do about it. We ALL are such fucking chumps.......
I'll go out on a limb here, but if Inhofe is proposing it, it has to be the wrong answer.
cygnusx1 @ 122 -
You are correct. Without the two candidates forcing the issue in the media the rest of America gets to stay asleep.
Clinton and Obama: no hope, no change. More of the same.
Vote Edwards '08.
cygnusx1isahole @ 122:
That's a different issue, and I agree with you on that. But the SJC version without immunity was dead in the water in the Senate from the start of this charade.
Why? Because 25 or so DINOs side with Bushco reliably, and they are pushing Reid around like a baby in a stroller.
CalGeorge @ 106:
Paul in LA @ 109:
Oh great, more apology for their lack of leadership. Actions speak louder than words. This is just as bad as those assholes who say they "support the troops"(TM) but won't go to Iraq, have never been in the military, and don't want injured soldiers to receive medical care when they get back -- you know -- falafel boy Bill Orally.
Dodd and Feingold could always use a breather. Just standing up for the cause would EARN them respect. Saying you support Dodd doesn't earn respect when you COULD and SHOULD be doing much more. I've called Harkin's and Dodd's offices today and voiced my support. that's probably more than what Clinton and Obama have done.
Paul in LA @123 -
Two words: Jon Tester.
Odds are, Reid is off somewhere trying to figure out what to do. When it was clear that Cardin wasn't going to back down, which means that there'll be a series of amendments, even after the initial fixer amendment is voted on, that made it clear that those who don't like the IC's bill weren't going to roll over. So, my guess, Reid is probably trying to convince people to go for another extension, since the gutless sh*t that he is can't do his job.
Paul in LA @ 123:
You're wrong. Congress is the House and the Senate. I paid attention in Government Class. I even looked it up on wikipedia for you:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Congress
"The United States Congress is the legislature of the federal government of the United States. It is bicameral, consisting of two houses, the Senate and the House of Representatives."
OK. We're back on topic. Can't tell what Reid is doing, though.
Inhofe just stated that no energy source has been shown to be cleaner than Nuclear as his final statement in arguing for a waste depository that needs to be safe for 1 million years and hold the waste from 36 states.
Mind boggling.
shoephone @ 130:
Tester is an ordinary Joe? The President of the Montana Senate is not an ordinary Joe by definition.
Paul in LA @ 127:
Hey Mr. "know it all", why is it you are very, very selective when reponding to
cygnusx1isahole at # 122? His point as to neither Obama nor Hillary attending for
purposes of gaining pubic exposure via the media is "on point" and accurate. You
seem to always want to tell us how all knowing you are about the processes/procedures
in the U.S. Congress, but NEVER, or so it seems to me, reply to equally as important
issues brought to the table.
Jesus Christ. Reid practically begging Kyl to let him play Senate Majority Leader.
Kennedy up now: Ultimately, Court cases are no subsitute for inspector general review when it comes to investigation the facts. Administration keeping us in the dark about one of the most outrageous violations in history. Millions of Americans have been spied on for ears. They have the right to know why. The Senate also has the right to know.
"sped on for years".
Chris @ 132:
We do not refer to Senators as Congressmen. The term, Congress, can refer to the whole Congress, or, conventionally, to the House. I was clarifying that second meaning (by following the word with the intended meaning) and pointing out that in Congress there is NO offer of immunity, even though there is one in the Senate.
The reason for pointing this out is that the lower House is a Congress, and has more liberal views as a result, while the Senate is designed NOT to be a Congress, and to protect privilege. The Senate represents the states (and their populations), while the Congress represents the people directly via the districts.
Doggiebobo @ 136:
He made that point later. At first he was deriding them for missing a vote that would not have changed in any case.
Paul in LA @ 135:
You're being deliberately obtuse. He is an organic farmer! Yeah, he ran for state public office before running for national public office. So what?
Are you ever going to pull you head out of your ass, or must we continually suffer through your grumpy lectures?
muldoon @ 90:
How about forming the Crooks and Liars PAC?
Paul in LA @ 139:
Oh, we are all soooooo grateful for you educating/informing us of this fact.. Do
you think there are a bunch of uninformed idiots on this thread?
Doggiebobo @ 136:
If you want an understanding of Paul, here is a good start:
http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=pedant
We interrupt the pompous professor's lectures on civics to return to the matter at hand.
Feinstein up now, trying to play both sides against the middle, prove her civil liberties creds. Speaking in legal phraseology. Wants to be seen as the "adult" on FISA, explaining to all what new amendments say. Oh, she's very calm and deliberative. Too bad she's already shwon her hand.
Paul in LA @ 140:
So what; you often get on your high-horse about almost anything anyone has to say,
so why not speak to that issue, which(you will note) was categorized as "even more
important".
One Presidential candidate listened to the people. John Edwards challenged HILL and OBE to get back to Washington and support Senator Dodd's Filibuster.
http://firedoglake.com/2008/01/23/john-edwards-on-fisa/
HILL and OBE not much for being challenged, i guess.
Dear voters in the Super Tuesday states, please notice who is not in DC today and not standing up against telcom immunity.
I know this would cost Clinton and Obama a whole day from campaigning and giving John Edwards a slight advantage. This is what happens though when you try to run for another a job while you still hold another. Perhaps in the future if you actually want to be a Senator you don't run for President. Perhaps if you want to run for President you resign your Senate seat. I know life isn't fair but welcome to OUR world.
DiFi begins her statement with a known falsehood that the White House began this program in October 2001. This is a lie. She is a liar. It started almost immediately after Bush took office as uncovered in the Quest case. Stop the lies Dianne. Everyone known better and so should you.
Doggiebobo @ 143:
You can get over yourself any time you want. I am interested in a DETAILED factual analysis, and we are talking about complex issues.
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