Burden on superdelegates gets even heavier
By Steve Benen Tuesday Apr 22, 2008 5:45pm
Democratic strategist Jim Jordan, who is not affiliated with either presidential campaign, told the Los Angeles Times Tuesday night, "Anybody who says past this point that this is good for the party or good for the nominee is a fool." The candidates, he said, are "exhausted, they're more likely to make mistakes, and they're raising each other's negatives."
It's a common sentiment among party leaders and officials.
Tennessee Gov. Phil Bredesen, an uncommitted Democratic superdelegate, told the New York Times, "This is exactly what I was afraid was going to happen. They are going to just keep standing there and pounding each other and bloodying each other, and no one is winning. It underlines the need to find some way to bring this to conclusion."
The irony is, Bredesen is complaining while refusing to take a side in the contest. He wants to bring this race to an end, but by remaining uncommitted, he's prolonging the contest.
The longer Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama get bloodied and bruised, the more superdelegates argue they want the fighting to end. If so, it's within their power to intervene. So why don't they?
From a decidedly pro-Obama perspective, Matt Yglesias argued this morning:
If there's a large pro-Clinton group out there, fine. So be it. Stand up and let yourselves be counted. If not, if you're for Obama, then even better -- raise your hand. People keep explaining to me that superdelegates have good selfish reasons to avoid declaring and giving us a chance to end this thing. That's true, but a great many of them also have constituents on whom pressure can be brought to get off the fence without waiting until June.
At this point, we know what we need to know. We know the policy differences between the candidates, we know the "freak show" issues surrounding the candidates, we know the basic shape of each candidate's core electoral coalition, and we know that in the end Obama will have a modest but real lead in elected delegates. Everyone should declare.
The New York Times had an item about five weeks ago on how the superdelegates are feeling antsy, but the uncommitted ones don't want to announce their support for either candidate. Why? Because they're hoping power brokers (Howard Dean, Al Gore, et al.) will intervene so they'll be "relieved of making an excruciating decision that could lose them friends and supporters at home."
I'm sorry to break it to the superdelegates, but this is in their hands -- just as it has been for weeks. Whether they decide in August, June or April, these insiders are going to deliver the nomination to one candidate or the other.
What are they waiting for? The burden of choice is heavy, but unavoidable.
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Because they don't want to miss out on an ambassadorship by voting for the loser.
I don't line up with obama on education or health care. Democrats are evenly divided. Where I work (a school), clinton is by far the choice. There is no easy answer to this. I know too many people who are going to stay home if their candidate isn't the nominee.
Very good question, Steve. IMO, the only superdelegates that should be sitting on the fence are those in states which haven't voted yet. But who knows what perks await those that hold out the longest?
Simple solution: both candidates should pledge to address only how their platform differs from the Bush/McCain platform, and never even mention or make inferences about each other. The only thing that 70 percent of us wants to hear anyway is how each candidate would pull us out of the mire that BushCo put us in. That way the Party stays on track, attacking McCain at every opportunity, two against one.
The only thing worse than not declaring right now is declaring. This thing must be fought to the end of voting then the supes must go with the candidate with the most 'legitimate' (no MI or FL crap) delegates. Anything else will make the losing side cry foul and have an excuse to sit it out in the fall. The only other path is the one Hillary refuses to take, a graceful bow-out.
John, why should she bough out! She genuinely feels her experience makes her a better candidate. Except for platitudes, obama stumbles through policy speeches. He could bough out, too.
i am for obama over the hawkish, walmart employee clinton
but she will somehow parlay the convention and she will lose to mccain!
i hate to say it!
anncoulterisevil.com @ 1:
That about sums it up.
JEN @ 6:
she said 2 days ago she's going to attack iran!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
she worked for walmart!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
she was for NAFTA
she took millions form rupert murdoch...are fucking insane
Who here would place a money bet on the Dem nominee?
JEN @ 6:
Why would the candidate that is leading drop out? He is going to go to the convention with more delegates. She should drop out because she will go into the convention with less delegates. There is just no getting around that. The NY Times is correct. She is hurting herself, her opponent, her party and possibly the election.
Constant media repetition turns everything and anybody into a self-parody. Obama and Clinton need to elevate their campaigns before they become jokes to everyone except their hardcore supporters. As the sun sets on the Pennsylvania primary, can Obama and Clinton rise above their caricatures? The Forever Campaign is turning the candidates into caricatures, their policy positions lost in the shuffle of gotchas and spin: Obama, the well-spoken elitist who talks a good game but can't close the sale or get anything done. Clinton, the disingenuous opportunist who will do anything to win and refuses to concede that she's lost. Two bright, thoughtful candidates are being eclipsed by cartoon versions of themselves.
The media bias is so bad, the Clintons have to go on Fox News :
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jbJVkIzKq64
I think this would be a good post.
Sad.
I'm surprised we don't have a similar battle to the finish on the Rethug side.
Seems odd that would so quickly just fold up and accept McCain so early.
I am tired of Obama being tarred with the same brush as Clinton. She is the one who has waged a campaign from the gutter. Even the NYT said so today. Obama tries to be the gentleman, but then he is in a double bind and they accuse him of having a glass jaw and being a wimp who can't win in November. Clinton signed on to the delegate count being the parameter for selecting the nominee as she did for the caucus system and the FL and MI primaries being void. Now her surrogate McAuliffe wants the popular vote to be the yardstick, and they claim she has it because they count FL and MI and they discount the caucuses. If the superdelegates go against the will of the people and their own rules, the Democratic Party will be destroyed. And good riddance. It will have proved itself as worthless as many of us have suspected for years.
What's this "pounding each other" stuff? They're both spinning negative, but Clinton is spinning out of control and the pounding that's being done is being done by her. I really don't see how things like Obama's Annie Oakley comments are in the same league as her race-baiting trash talk.
getalife @ 13:
Have to or want to? Dude just like Hillary, play the victim. Do you want to cry?
Obama is finished.
He was leading once, but has shot himself in the foot with "clings to guns and religion", which stacks up with "God damn America".
The republicans are already running these in ads against democrats in other races.
Bush's victory proves Americans respond to emotion over intellectual issues.
Since these remarks, Obama has been losing the blue-collar Reagan democrats he must carry to win in November.
It's over for Obama.
Clinton can still win.
Sad but true.
It's all part of the big fix! Open your eyes. The elite control both parties and they want a republican in the white house to continue with their plan of acquiring all mideast oil. McSame will be the president beginning in January for the next 8 years.
Only the people can end these wars.
I mean the Rethug contest is putting me to sleep. If not a coma. Thats probably what they want.
American Native @ 19:
That would require them to give up safety and comfort.
The superdelegates need to end this now. They are both becoming jokes. Obama trying to bowl and eat waffles and Hillary doing shots with beer chasers and talking about strapping on a gun and going hunting. What a bunch of crap.
JEN @ 6:
Let's see her experience allowed her to:
a) Turn a double digit lead at the beginning of the primary season to a second fiddle status to a virtually unknown candidate less than a year ago.
b) Run a scorched earth campaign that is now tens of millions of dollars in debt.
c) Her experience allowed her to vote yea to IWR, the Kyl Lieberman debacle, against banning land-mines, and missing the FISA vote due to other "priorities."
d) Her only experience edge over Obama, is that she has an extra term as a senator. A seat she obtained in an almost undisputed fashion.
e) And I guess that it is her experience as a former the president of her alma mater's chapter of the College Republicans, that has allowed her to talk like a republican, walk like a republican, and sling mud like a republican.
Sorry, with experience like that... I could care less what she thinks she is entitled in exchange.
Some Canadian Guy @ 16:
The real problem with your statement is that she hasn't made any race-baiting trash talk. Show me one please. and not some idiot's super elastic spin on what she said.
The most depressing statistic of the day is that the Hillary has managed to move Obama's personal negatives to a point nearly equal to her own, perpetually high negatives. Mission Accomplished!
Superdelegates need to declare soon else it's the end of the Democratic party as we know it. But maybe that would be a good thing. The party may have outlived it's usefullness anyway.
I heard what I thought was a pretty good suggestion proffered by one of the pundits this afternoon. Specifically, maybe it was time for the blogs to do something about the anonymity of the undeclared superdelegates so that their constituencies can put pressure on them to declare one way or another.
Is Hillary Clinton still hanging around with the cocaine smuggler, Jorge Carbrera, that used to smuggle the cocaine into Mena, Ark. via Poppy Bush? I mean, I know she takes campaign contributions from him, but does she still take pictures with him?
http://prorev.com/hillaryfriends.htm
SassySandy @ 22:
http://tinyurl.com/3ta5r6
Bu..bu..but! I thought being a Superdelegate was going to be like the comic books.
We get to drink all the beer, have all the fun, and sneak off to the broom closet for some hanky-panky!
And now Mom's saying we have to clean our rooms first! Its not fair!
WHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!11!
Seriously. These are our leaders? Pathetic.
i am and have been a democrat for all my life. this kind of crap
is exactly what makes the democratic leadership so WEAK.
they complain and complain and complain. the very people who
have the ability to resolve the issues and in this case, who the
nominee will be for the democrats, are the very people who
will not commit their votes. this process like the electoral
college are outdated and must be ended. popular vote alone
should decide elections.
If anyone can snatch defeat from the jaws of victory, it's the Democrats.
If Obama loses to McCain, his supporters will resent the Clintons intensely. Clinton supporters, of course, will claim that it only proves he was never electable in the first place.
I hope you all know that the 'Publicans are just sitting back and laughing at your infighting.
The more damage Clinton can do to the left, the more her corporate sponsors love it. Rupert Murdoch has invested wisely.
Scott @ 18:
I get it. Second is first and first is second in your wacky world. Think about this political genius, let's watch you "progressives" win a close race against McWar. without black voters after screwing Obama.
Why do people accept the results when the votes are counted in secret? What proof do we have other than corporate vote counters telling us who won ... according to bradblog
Tuesday's Election Will be 'Unrecountable, Unverifiable, and Unauditable'...
On Tuesday night, you will be told who the winner of the Pennsylvania Primary is. You will accept it. You will have no choice. No matter who the winner really is. Or isn't.
So why do people accept the election results with out any proof?
Clinton is a complete waste of space. The only thing she's proving is that there are a lot of idiots left in the party.
The Democratic Party is in a fix. If Hillary continues her remarkable surge late in the primary season she will render absurd the pundit demands that she withdraw from the race. Hillary is winning the big blue states while Obama is winning the red states that will not be won by Democrats in the general election. A lead in the popular vote heading into the convention will give Hillary an extremely strong argument for super delegate support. The Democratic Party faces an agonizing dilemma in August. If party politics hands the nomination to Hillary at the convention, blacks will perceive it as a racial snub and might decide to stay home in November. Developing...
VietVet8666 @ 10:
I would. How much do you want to lose?
When did it become taboo to speak the truth?
The reverand was right! GODDAMN AMERICA's PLUTOCRACY. They are the ones controlling your lives. They are the ones killing in masses (genocides) all over the world. Chile, Nicaragua, Honduras, Iraq, Afghanistan, etc. They are the ones that "allowed" 9/11 to move forward. America's chickens have come to roost; this is just the beginning. Wake up!
I think for the good of the party O should pull out.
Superdelegates are going to vote for whoever is going to put the most money in their pockets.
At this point Hillary would need to win the remaining states by 20 point or more margins to beat Obama in pledged delegates and popular vote. If he wins NC or Indiana, or she wins by margins less than 10 points, then she will not win the pledged delegate or popular vote count.
Hillary's only chance is to convince enough superdelegates to go against the will of the people and give her the nomination. What do you think the MAJORITY of the Democratic party is going to if that happens?
Once North Carolina and Indiana vote and it is determined without a shadow of a doubt that Hillary can not win the pledged delegate count or the popular vote then the superdelegates must, for the sake of the party, end this thing so we can concentrate on the general election.
And will the Hillarybots give up trying to count Florida and Michigans illegitimate delegates. Millions of Floridians sat home knowing their vote wouldn't count, and Obama wasn't even on the Michigan ballot, so counting those delegates would be absurd. Both states had the chance to hold new primaries, but since they refused to pay for it and we're running out of time it appears they're just going to have to accept what happens when you break the rules.
JEN @ 2:
and this kind of attitude shows just how moronic Americans are.
these bastard babies who don't get their way, are more comfortable
standing in front of a bus on a busy highway than supporting the
party. F#CK these selfish assholes. you are not a democrat if
you espouse this behavior.
[Deleted. Off topic. Way off topic. Site Monitor]
fiver @ 32:
That's a question the Clinton lovers run away from....why the hell does the right wing love her so much?
For any voters in Indiana...
http://www.verifythevote.org/solutions.html
Left&Left @ 43:
Because they don't like Obama obviously.
This isn't that bad. Slate has an article claiming a poll of voters that would crossover to Mccain if their candidate lost at 1:4, and 1:5. I won't say who was in which camp, but in my opinion the woman/40+/and spanish demographics are larger and tend to vote for Hillary.
IF Sen Obama takes the nomination, the GOP will shred him. They have been oddly silent while he and Sen Clinton play against each other.
I find it interesting that if Sen Obama doesn't take the nomination, his voters will not support the candidate who wins.
Hildebeast has adopted the mutually assured destruction campaign strategy. She has no loyalty or concern for the Dem party or defeating McSame and putting an end to the Bush fiasco. She wants the nomination and if she can't have, she's going to make sure the Dems lose in November. What an egotistical, spiteful, selfish bitch she is.
What information are the supers lacking that keep them undecided? They have debated dozens of times, given hundreds of speeches, have detailed policy plans on record and available for review and released financial information. There is no excuse for not picking a side. Get of the stinking pot.
Widespread @ 31:
I still think Obama can beat McCain, but the way Hillary has been acting makes it look like she is trying to sabotage Obama so she can run in 2012.
L.A. Confidential @ 45:
No. Because these "progressive" hating mother fuckers KNOW THEY CAN BEAT HER ASS!
The hell with this bull shit,no matter what he does , the race care will be played, I really hope that Hillary take the vote, so that America will be come the third world has been that it's becoming,no matter what MR. Obama does he has to fight Both Clintons, McCain, the MSM the head of Canada, McCain using tax payer money to go to England to raise money for an American president run.Right now who give a damn, jackasses would rather look like IRAQ than rebuit this country,I hope it is McCain and Hillary so we will look like a third world country, remember Rome the only war they lost came from a small army from Africa, The middle east want the republican back in control so they can have more ppeople to join their cause,who really haave the nuclear bomb, India told the USA to go to hell when we trird to tell them who they can talk to, and they said that IRAN and India goes back centuries, we as Americans how no ideal how the world works. Mr. Obama have done a great job, just step back and watch this country go down in flames,but to all the supporter of Sen. Obama if you really want to make a statement the sent $10 to $ to his caus4 just to say the MSM and cable news do not own us, we are the people.
abarts @ 47:
Thats the biggest problem the Dem party faces. Sore Losers within their own party.
abarts @ 47:
Then please explain why Rush tells his listeners to break election laws by changing party to vote for Hillary?
Left&Left @ 51:
Clintons defeated the Cons twice. They can do it again don't kid yourself.
L.A. Confidential @ 53:
More Clinton supporters have made this pledge than Obama's.
please for give all the mispell words, that just how angry I am.
All Monica. All the time. Not again.
bushflipflops @ 55:
He's obviously insane and thinks he's above the law.
voting machines, bitches.
y'all act like this is a democracy or some shit. She's gonna get the nod, murdoch's spent the last 8 years keeping her career alive. And the bush/clinton-good-cop-bad-cop machine can continue to reap it's cash reward.
PS. Hillary Clinton is a feminist like George Bush is a Christian.
empy @ 57:
Oh no they haven't. Thats media propaganda. They'll get behind Obama if he wins don't kid yourself they aren't that stupid and have a lot on the line.
L.A. Confidential @ 60:
Maybe, but what is shows is that Republicans would prefer to face Hillary instead of Obama in the general election. Why should we do what the Republicans want?
BChem @ 47:
A very compelling argument for stopping this endless vilification of either candidate which persuades no one and antagonizes everyone. This election could go down in history as the "sour grapes election".
#48 Abarts: "IF Sen Obama takes the nomination, the GOP will shred him. They have been oddly silent while he and Sen Clinton play against each other.
I find it interesting that if Sen Obama doesn’t take the nomination, his voters will not support the candidate who wins."
I see you've already been corrected but it's worth repeating that every survey has shown that more Clinton supporters feel this way than Obama's. IOW, it's about her and not the party. It's always been that way.
bushflipflops @ 63:
I don't believe for one second they would prefer to go up against Clinton. I believe they think they can pick off Obama so easy and so fast it will make your head spin.
Peter G @ 24:
See, that's the thing, eh. You don't actually have a response other than to insult me, which indicates to me you know I'm speaking the truth. I have gone from supporting Clinton (US citizen abroad, btw), to being disappointed by Clinton, to wishing she would just go away. And I ain't no idiot.
Clinton has been in politics and so have their handlers. She knows what she's doing and she knows what kind of covert statements to make. Everything she says is calculated, and if it isn't by this stage of the game ("obliterate" Iran, anyone), then she's running an even messier campaign than I'd imagined.
Peter G @ 64:
The Jerry Springer Special
Folks,
We need to frame this entire conversation differently:
1.The reason the Democratic primary is still a contest is because of the strength of the candidates. The Republican field narrowed so quickly because none of those guys held up in the light of day.Just like Mc Cain won't when the MSM finally starts asking some hard questions about him.
2.This is what democracy is all about. The Democratic party is not an organization that takes its orders from the top and marches accordingly (like the Republicans). A prolonged debate about the issues isgood for America. Democrats are good for America!
3. Democrats are registering and turning out is record numbers for these primaries. We don't just have an energized base, we have an energized party.
4. Both Obama and Clinton are running circles around Mc Cain's paltry fundraising and voter turn out.
5. The big story coming out of Pennsylvania is that Ron Paul got 16% of the vote: with no media coverage and almost no spending. Mc Cain's is a hollow campaign.
bushflipflops @ 51:
The problem would be if McCain decided he would not run again, his vice would and he would have the advantage over Clinton because we will still be on 3-4 war fronts and nobody would want to change. You have to remember that the dems have to run against thr repugnantcants and th MSM.
empy @ 57:
Our country has one chance to right itself. Obama. You are sure as hell right i won't vote for Clinton or McCain. They are one in the same to me.
empy @ 57:
Going by this site my count is about fifty-fifty.
L.A. Confidential @ 46:
I can't believe after all these years of "win at all costs" vile hatred from the Repubs, you try to squeeze something, anything positive out of the fact that Conservatives would clearly rather face Hillary(your girl) over Obama. Spin it any way you wish, something is very wrong with this fact.
L.A. Confidential @ 66:
Then why did Rush have his listeners cross over to vote for her in the primary? Your opinion doesn't agree with the facts.
sly @ 71:
Your really limiting yourself and your horizons with that attitude. If Obama doesn't get it don't go jumping out of a window or anything.
All oral sex/stained blue dress. All the time. Not again.
Hate to be so cynical but has it occurred to anyone that the Clintons have become accustomed to being millionaires and that's why it's so important to grab this nomination regardless of the cost to the party? If she does not get the nomination, and Obama goes on to win the election, then all that money from Bill's "speeches" is likely to dry up fast because there's no pay-off for the donors. The Clintons might even have to sell one or more of the houses, and Bill might even have to get a real job.
Some Canadian Guy @ 67:
In other words your googling has turned up no responses and your fallback position is a secret cabal that everyone knows about. If you think that someone challenging an unfounded assertion is an insult you might be a little too sensitive for this site.
bushflipflops @ 74:
I know he said that but the fact is facts aren't always facts in this day and age. If everything is a FACT we would never advance.
Dare for one second to see the truth. Rush Limbaugh and every other FOX pundit has spent the last 8 years trying to get Hillary elected! Shocker... i know... It's a machine people. It's what it does.
I have a novel idea.
Let's let the voters decide.
The Democratic candidate that gets the most votes from the people who will be expected to vote for them again in the major election, gets the nomination.
Maybe that way we could become a Democracy instead of what we have now a dictatorial diumvirate.
A diumvirate that is populated by the world's largest collection of jerks, ass-holes, crooks, perverts, liars, and idiots.
Rico @ 77:
Uh Bill actually wanted to be President. Unlike someone else we know. If Hillary didn't want to be President she would have dropped out already and said screw it it's not worth the fight or the cost.
L.A. Confidential @ 56:
you are high!!
L.A. Confidential @ 79:
You're a moron.
sly @ 80:
The truth is ever dynamic not static. Forget Rush and Fox they are fu*king with your head.
Anyone who thinks Billary will bow out gracefully is a f*cking fool. They don't give a shi* about the Democratic party. It's all about Billary. And if they can't win....and they can't...they will have no problem sinking the Dems in November.
McCain must be smiling a huge yellow stained teeth grin over all this.
sly @ 80:
Oh yes. We could tell that from their kind and generous endorsements. Clearly it's been a lovefest for Hillary at Fox News.
The HRC campaign has to continue - especially for the supporters. What are they going to do when it's over? Sit on the front porch and randomly yell "Sexist!" at passersby?
Scott @ 18:
Even with a deficit through the roof.
A continuing war.
A bad healthcare system
An economy that incredible pathetic
You mean, they would vote for the same thing instead of Clinton or Obama?
L.A. Confidential @ 75:
Yeah... have you been reading the news at all? 8 years of this shit and I'M limiting my horizons? Sorry to out-cynic you... but the democratic congress took the last horizon i might have had.
PS. i live on the ground floor...
marko @ 83:
No I am not. Like I said if Obama gets it I'll be with him. I like the guy he's pretty hip in many ways. I am not afraid of a Clinton Administration or an Obama Administration.
The Truth Hurts @ 86:
No he's not.
Monica was shot at, she's got proof.
bushflipflops @ 84:
No. "LAC"'s been here for alot longer discussing things rationally. I don't always agree but that's hardly the point.
So....You are way out of line, newbie.
(Pssst. Here's a hint: Always know your audience.)
L.A. Confidential @ 85:
Like I said, you Hillary lovers can't answer why the Repubs are rooting for her. L.A., you explanation sucks.
sly @ 90:
It took me my whole life playing by the rules to get it together. I don't want a McCain and the Neocons destroying it or anyone elses life or future.
Johnny2Bad @ 94:
I'll endorse that.
Brad @ 76:
Nah, this is stands by her man Hillary Clinton we're talking about, and you are blaming her for her husbands indiscretions.
Peter G @ 87:
welcome to murdoch's brain... any publicity is good publicity.
Johnny2Bad @ 94:
Well I saw no rational argument in his reply to me so I call them like I see them.
Left&Left @ 95:
Look...They started rooting for either one some time ago...They're lickin their chops either way and the polls bear that out.
Left&Left @ 95:
had the race stayed above board, i wouldve welcomed a floor fight
but the race had to get ugly
and i feel its too late to make things better
so what the heck...lets have chicago 2
better yet, lets settle the whole thing with a cage match between clinton and obama
that would be fun to watch
The clinton hate on this site is ridiculous. What a bunch of hypocrites.
L.A. Confidential @ 102:
Bad edit sorry.
Johnny2Bad @ 94:
Excellent points Johnny2bad. I disagree with LAC on everything Hillary, but "moron" is out of line.
Still:
That's quotable. :)
bushflipflops @ 100:
"You're a moron" is "rational"? Ok. You might try a little more thoughtful approach.
sly @ 99:
Any good pimp(Murdoch) knows how to take care of his best whore(Hillary).
fiver @ 106:
Yep. Highly.
JEN @ 104:
It's like Obamas people are Brown Shirts. Nasty, vicious, mean, ready to club anyone who doesn't support their man over the head. I'm not comfortable with that.
L.A. Confidential @ 110:
Hey...Just when I defend you ...you throw in the first Nazi meme. Trying to make me look bad? ;)
JEN @ 104:
i think you mean majority... yes, "what a majority"
i don't hate her... i just loath her.
PS. i used to love her... imagine that.
john @ 53:
Good hell. That was the most painful post to read on this entire thread. I have no idea what you were trying to say, dude.
To everyone else-Hillary's people won't vote for Obama if he wins, and Obama's won't vote for Hillary if she wins, right?
WTF sense does any of that make? Go ahead if you're not in a swing state, I guess. Otherwise, get off your ass and do the rest of us a favor and vote AGAINST the WORST person in the general, as you should ALWAYS do.
Elections aren't about electing a savior. They're always about voting against who you don't want. Don't forget that.
Left&Left @ 108:
Murdoch tries to buy everyone off or out. Doesn't always work.
Johnny2Bad @ 101:
No. Stop the spin.....you know that the conservatives CLEARLY want Hillary. Just explain to me why.
sly @ 112:
Sounds like my ex. Ugh.
Johnny2Bad @ 107:
No, but the debate had deteriotated at that point to him spouting gibberish rather than provide any evidence contrary to the evidence I provided indicating that the Republican machine has been purposely trying to get Hillary the nomination because they see her as easier to beat than Obama. If he wants to act childish or moronic rather than actually debate then I will call him as such.
Johnny2Bad @ 111:
No it wasn't directed at you. I understand there are fine people in the Obama camp. Some of the others though forget it.
JEN @ 104:
Too true. Despite the fact that they are both excellent candidates and human beings. HRC supporters, with some exceptions show way more class. They don't use terms like "whore" or "bitch"or anything approaching that level of offensiveness when speaking of Senator Obama.
sometimes things are not as they seem. sometimes , people are not who they say they are. LA Confidential is right. And all these Clinton bashers who insult other Democrats,have their collective heads so far up their ass, the can see their back teeth. Can't Stay long,on a friends computer. Grettings from Cabo.
Left&Left @ 115:
They know they can keep their careers-relevance alive for another 8 years with a Clinton Administration.
mrplow @ 113:
I'd love to agree, but tell me which is worse: "bomb bomb bomb, bomb bomb Iran" or "obliterate Iran."
BChem @ 98:
You mean blowjobs? I'm so tired of that tired story, but sadly, it's a rich chapter of history. It will be trotted out, again and again by the republicans. Sex and lies. Page one.
L.A. Confidential @ 114:
You're right, L.A. Big Daddy Ruppert hasn't throw money at Obama. I guess one of the candidates isn't a whore.
Left&Left @ 115:
I don't buy your premise. They are ready for either one. Now, do they think they can beat her more easily? I guess. But that's (I think) because they have the old ammo (Blue dress etc.) ready and they're comfortable with it. It'll be a bit harder to tap into the racism out in the open...but it may be easier for them once the curtain is drawn in the voting booth.
To me, its a toss up. Both seem very defeatable.
Left&Left @ 124:
Huh? I'm pretty damn sure "Whore" is part of the job description.
I dare say that most moderate Republicans are sick and tired of the Blue Dress bit just as much as we are. And if that issue scares you, it shouldn't.
mudshark @ 127:
Bring it on, eh?
mudshark @ 120:
Hiya, muddy! Greetings from dry sunny and warm Michigan, where it's been in the 70's for about a week now. But the Lake is still cold. Hope you're enjoying yourself.
And you and LAC are both right on this. The Obama supporters have got to start realizing that a significant part of Hillary's support are great Dems who have been there since '92 or before. It's one thing to come in using a Trojan Horse, but it's shitty to start slaughtering every Trojan without cause.
Johnny2Bad @ 125:
I believe conservatives (in particular free market type, economic conservatives) want Hillary because she is a conservative. If you can't get another CEO presidency, a corporate lawyer/director presidency will work just as well.
Nobody is worried about who can be beat by the Republican nominee. McCain is toast.
Peter G @ 119:
no, they just use closet terms for nigger
such as empty suit, and theres no there there, and lack of experience, and lazy...etc
hillary has sold herself to the highest bidder...the former head of her campaign was a lobbyest, who is still on the campaign....that makes her a whore
mccain is a whore too...look who he surrounds himself with, look who he married
and when she pulls the crap that she has on the campaign trail, by deriding her opponent by saying nicer things than her repug opponent...well then, [Deleted]
just like bush is a bastard
ya....the clintonistas are sooooooo much nicer
bullshit
[It's one thing when you use an otherwise hurtful, racist or sexist word in an unhurtful context, but when you use them in an intentionally hurtful way, it's a different story. Site Monitor]
What a sad, wasted opportunity. Remember when we all thought "Clinton/Obama or Obama/Clinton...it's all good!" Do you remember when we marveled at the idea that the Democrats would not be nominating a white male to the presidency? That a woman AND an African American were the front runners?
And yet...
At a time when our national issues are so severely pressing that I need not even enumerate them (you all know what they are), what have the Democratic leaders opted to do?
Rally us together under a common cause? Compete with one another on the basis of who can offer the best, most effective solutions for our shared problems? Use the give-and-take of debate to refine their positions, elevate our discourse and shine a bright light on the rat's nest of corruption and incompetence we've been living under?
No. They've invited us to hate one another. They've invited us to choose between gender and race, between lapel pins and sniper fire, between secret Muslim training and convenient arithmetic.
And they won't let up. They won't. All that matters is the jugular.
This is what comes of it. What reason do we have to believe that anyone with a shot at becoming president will actually do anything about anything?
The Democratic party apparently exists to get Republicans elected. It's going to be a challenge this year, granted. But they're off to a fantastic fucking start.
What a sad, sad, lost opportunity. And yes, I know, it's "the process." But the process is being abused here. If this is the process, we need a new process.
We're not going to survive another four years of this.
Brad @ 128:
I wouldn't use that particular phrase( and we all know why), but yes, let them have at it. It will only hasten their own destruction.
anncoulterisevil.com @ 1:
Not quite.
1. If they back Clinton and Obama wins, they'll lose out on an ambassadorship.
2. If they back Obama, win or lose, they'll get WHACKED by the Billary attack machine.
bushflipflops @ 117:
What evidence did you provide? None that I could see. Unless you're an insider in the right wing strategy sessions you don't have a clue who they prefer. I'm sure some Republicans would prefer to attack a woman and some a colored man. I have to say I don't think L.A. is the one acting childish and moronic.
Howzit AndyK, just popped in to check things out, somethings never change. Gotta go, dinners ready, see ya in a few weeks.
Johnny2Bad @ 125:
I hate the fucking Conservatives, but they are not stupid. Hillary is more beatable not just because of her baggage, but because she is more like them....McWar will beat her in a debate by using her own words against her. To suggest it's"a toss up" is simply dishonest.
Playing by the rules that the Democratic party established to nominate a candidate, and by the rules that all candidates agreed to beforehand, and by the rules of basic math (i.e. 2+2=4), Clinton has no chance to win a majority of the pledged delegates, yet it's still a race. By who's standards?
This all convinces me that most of us are wasting our time. For me it's time to go plan the spring garden, decide what kind of tomatoes to plant, and leave the rest of this BS to the plutocracy. I'm not a player.
Axelrod lost this for Obama. Tried to be "agressive" which doesn't work for Obama. Obama should've continued the gentleman's campaign.
Peter G @ 135:
Go back and look again then. I said that Rush Limbaugh, one of the leading voices for conservatives, asked his listeners to switch parties to vote for Hillary in the primary. If you visit any othese political blogs frequently you should be familiar with that story or do you still need me to provide a link?
That one of the prominent figures of the conservative movement, who had an integral part in getting Republicans to win back control of the House in 1994, wants Hillary to get the nomination instead of Obama shows who they think is easier to beat. LAC's response, and apparently yours as well is to stick your fingers in your ears and cry: "LA LA LA LAAAAAAH, I'm not listening."
Left&Left @ 17:
The media bias on MSNBC and CNN is so pathetic, they have to go to Fox News to be treated fairly.
They were the first to call for Clinton last night.
CNN was fighting about radicals and MSNBC was spinning a win for Obama.
It was pitiful.
Most of you are missing the biggest things to consider in this election and that is to elect a democratic house and senate that can over-ride a veto no mater who is president! I will hold my nose and vote for the democrat that is chosen even though I don’t really like ether of them. It will be a good thing to have someone as president that will approve of a progressive for the Supreme Court.
Just my two cents!
I hate Hillary Clinton's campaign tactics at this point in the game... but damn she looks kinda good in this pic
bushflipflops @ 51:
Yeah, that's why I said Obamans would resent the Clintons intensely.
It's very difficult to take on the capitalist overlords, and if you let them splinter you, you'll end up like the Judean People's Front (no offense to the People's Front of Judea).
#142: Most of you are missing the biggest things to consider in this election and that is to elect a democratic house and senate that can over-ride a veto no mater who is president! I will hold my nose and vote for the democrat that is chosen even though I don’t really like ether of them. It will be a good thing to have someone as president that will approve of a progressive for the Supreme Court.
Just my two cents!"
Your two cents are worth 2 million. There are many Democratic insiders who believe that with Obama on the ticket, Democrats woud increase majorities in both the Senate and House by enormous margins, even if he were to lose the Presidency to McCain. While with Hillary on the ticket, we could lose across the board no matter who wins the Presidency. I know this is really inside baseball, but something Democratic insiders are seriously worried about. And getting back to the topic at hand, I think this is what the superdelegates really need to consider.
L.A. Confidential @ 91:
she said she would attack iran
SUPPORTING HER IS A VOTE FOR MORE KILLING
2 JEN Says: I don’t line up with obama on education or health care. Democrats are evenly divided. Where I work (a school), clinton is by far the choice. There is no easy answer to this. I know too many people who are going to stay home if their candidate isn’t the nominee.
==================================
Tell them, "Cutting off you nose to spite your face is never a good strategy." It's petty and small-minded; egotistical even. Then ask them what they think of 8 years of a McSame junta.
L.A. Confidential @ 54:
you said it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Seems to me the main influence on most superdelegates might be what Hillary refers to as "special interests," rather than the interests of their constituents or ethical/moral considerations. The reason this shit is happening is because they are being leaned on (or bribed or whatever).
Dems are fighting each other, pro-Hillary or pro-Obama in the insane way we see every day because "special interests" are trying to destroy America. The Constitution and the best of our heritage is the main obstacle in the way of the creation of a corporatist-run world where nation states are impotent in controlling their actions. Can't people see the destruction of real physical economy, the corruption of our culture, the constant "divide and conquer let's-you-and-him-fight" operations, the promotion of distraction by focusing on "issues," the cartelization of the media and of basic industries like food and water?
"What are the superdelegates waiting for?" is not the right question. The right question is more like "Why is this all happening--is there a pattern here? Why can't people see the big picture in historical perspective?
You do realize, according to "their own rules" the superdelegates can vote for whoever they damn well please right? According to the rules, Hillary has a legitimate reason to stay in the race if the superdelegates can pull a victory for her. If the superdelegates are supposed to vote with the popular vote or by some other marker, it would have been written. The idea may be disagreeable or downright stupid, but according "their own rules" Hillary has every right to be in the race and the superdelegates can vote however they damn well please.
naschkatze Hussein @ 15:
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