There are some who say, as far as reversing climate change, the train has left the station.

rofl earthquakes and global warming have nothing to do with each other.

The strongest earthquake I've ever experienced was about 6.5 in California. The term "after shocks" can be misleading--they're earthquakes. They can continue for days, weeks after the main one, resulting in more damage to already weakened structures. So they're very scary.

Those buildings in China don't appear to have been built to withstand earthquakes, especially of that magnitude. They just pancaked. Horrible. Survivors are going to need blankets, clean water, food, shelter, medical attention.

Is Bushie sending any aid? Heard he gave lip service to it.

Leslie [Hussein] @ 6:

Is Bushie sending any aid? Heard he gave lip service to it.

No he's to busy causing harm to our country.

Bush administration rules limit lawsuits Open this result in new window
AP - 1 hour, 49 minutes ago

Faced with an unfriendly Congress, the Bush administration has found another, quieter way to make it more difficult for consumers to sue businesses over faulty products. It's rewriting the bureaucratic rulebook.

Don't forget the winds. I saw on the nooz the other day that Tornado alley , on a normal year has an average of 40 tornados in the month of may. May has already had over 100, and this was as of 3 days ago.

More gloomy global warming stuff: we may be the last generation to eat pelagic fish.

If the San Andreas slips, you guys are in deep shit.

Ever see the Mormon rocks over by Wrightwood?

There was some heavy duty movement going on there.

MSN reports upwards of 18,000 dead in one city of China alone. The death toll is climbing much higher than initially stated.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/24589987

And yes, earthquake occurrence is definitely impacted by global warming.

http://www.csmonitor.com/2004/0819/p16s01-sten.html

http://www.livescience.com/environment/070830_gw_quakes.html

We live in a ecosystem where all natural phenomenon is interrelated and codependent.

mudshark @ 13:

Loma Prieta was, how shall I put this?

unnerving.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loma_Prieta_Earthquake
something to think about.
do you have enough water or food to last for 1 or 2 weeks?

It seems like global warming is becoming more of an dogmatic position, than a sensible scientific position when one starts blaming every natural disaster on it. What does global warming have to do with earthquakes? While, I'm not a geological expert, it seems implausible, but I'm open to the evidence you may have. However, if none is to be had, perhaps a retraction is in order?

The Death tolls are high, but some of that will be due to the population density in those areas of Asia.

When buildings just collapse like that it is often due to poor construction practices. One of the recent earthquakes in India caused a school to collapse and the people went after the builders, recognizing that it was cut corners during the construction of the buildings that lead to its collapse.

I am sure that the need to build quickly in China to support the urban migration has much to do with the lax building codes and the cutting of corners.

----
Also calling Global Warning everytime there are a series of Natural disasters makes Global Warming followers seem a little like religious cattle. My religious family will use the same list of events to point to End of Times events from Revelations.

mudshark @ 21:

yesterday I spent hrs looking for info on that quake in China, all I got was bits and pieces.
The MSM paid very little attention to this tragedy.

Part of it may be difficulty reporting from that part of China. (Just a guess.)

What's most frightening, is that in our politicians' overriding interests in making themselves, the super rich and Corporate America even wealthier, our nation has lost the ability--and seemingly the know-how--to address disasters within our own borders. If Katrina indication, God help us if this country is ever it by a disaster along the dimensions of Myanmar or China!

Hey the atmosphere might play a role in making the earth shake, who knows? They could all be linked. We Are Talkin Nature here.

But that's just speculation on my part. The planet did just have a Volcano in Chile erupt a week or so ago. They all could very well be linked.

Darth_Romney @ 27:

L.A. Confidential @ 7:

The whole vibe, the whole mindset. It's amazing earth just hasn't exploded in a billion pieces with all this negativity permeating everything.

Oh, come on now...Jeebus would never let that happen! ;)

It doesn't matter. ;-)

Then of course there was the unseasonable downpour and flooding in Mexico 2 weeks ago. Just sayin.

mudshark @ 21:

yesterday I spent hrs looking for info on that quake in China, all I got was bits and pieces.
The MSM paid very little attention to this tragedy.

I was too, muddy. I think China is *ahem* allowing Xinhua to lead the coverage of this story. Not as bad as the lockdown- already in effect- at the time of the '76 quake there, but the news will continue its slow trickle out for a few more days, at least.

mudshark @ 28:

Hey the atmosphere might play a role in making the earth shake, who knows? They could all be linked. We Are Talkin Nature here.

But that's just speculation on my part. The planet did just have a Volcano in Chile erupt a week or so ago. They all could very well be linked.

The earth is a sphere...one among many in space. It's a relatively tiny object when you get down to brass tacks. Whether our brainiacs can detect, prove or even imagine it, seismic events on one side of it do influence the other side and to think otherwise is naive. C'mon....we had an earthquake just a while ago here in Illinois of all places. And if someone doesn't think global warming has noting to do with earthquakes and all that melting water, then ask yourself if you remember ever seeing a "pothole" on the street!

Dire Lobo @ 37:

mudshark @ 28:

Hey the atmosphere might play a role in making the earth shake, who knows? They could all be linked. ...

As my dear old dad used to say, and monkeys might fly out of my ass. (flying monkeys of course).

Actually, there is probably a slightly higher chance that global warming IS causing quakes, then the monkey thing.

Barring a catastrophic rearrangement of the deck-chairs, the GOP/McCain team can now concentrate its efforts on defeating Obama.

sully18 @ 9:

he one that hit here(the Midwest) a couple of weeks ago lasted about ten seconds.I was undaunted and kept doing what I was doing, BLOGGING even though it was 5:45AM.I`m one fearless dude.
I cannot imagine three minutes.Must admit thinking about it causes me anxiety.

A 7.8 quake too which is up there at the extreme top range of the known quakes in human history.

Andy K Jong Il @ 34:

mudshark @ 21:

yesterday I spent hrs looking for info on that quake in China, all I got was bits and pieces.
The MSM paid very little attention to this tragedy.

I was too, muddy. I think China is *ahem* allowing Xinhua to lead the coverage of this story. Not as bad as the lockdown- already in effect- at the time of the '76 quake there, but the news will continue its slow trickle out for a few more days, at least.

Sorry, meant to link to Xinhua.

Please don't take my link as an endorsement to PRC propaganda, but right now it's the only quake-reportin' out there, really.

Aren't humans part of nature too? So most everyone is a walking natural disaster.

Darth_Romney @ 36:

mudshark @ 28:

Hey the atmosphere might play a role in making the earth shake, who knows? They could all be linked. We Are Talkin Nature here.

But that's just speculation on my part. The planet did just have a Volcano in Chile erupt a week or so ago. They all could very well be linked.

The earth is a sphere...one among many in space. It's a relatively tiny object when you get down to brass tacks. Whether our brainiacs can detect, prove or even imagine it, seismic events on one side of it do influence the other side and to think otherwise is naive. C'mon....we had an earthquake just a while ago here in Illinois of all places. And if someone doesn't think global warming has noting to do with earthquakes and all that melting water, then ask yourself if you remember ever seeing a "pothole" on the street!

The irony is that the Mother of All Volcanoes is in, guess where, Yellowstone. That one blows, the entire western corner of North America is covered in ashes and its the Year Without a Summer, Round II. It's getting time, geologically for it to blow its top, and it would do more damage than a NATO-Warsaw Pact war would do.

Not to mention in addition to the San Andreas, there's the New Madrid Fault, which could cause more damage than the SA fault would. Mr. Natural Selection's gonna make us his bitch again, oh yes, he will.

L.A. Confidential @ 45:

Anyone remember the 1964 9.2 magnitude earthquake that hit Alaska?

I don't remember it, but I know a little about it. That was the one that sent the tsunami down into Oregon. right.

ferrofluid @ 49:

L.A. Confidential @ 45:

Anyone remember the 1964 9.2 magnitude earthquake that hit Alaska?

lucky it was in Alaska, and prob not near habitation.
each number is a magnitude which is 10 times the strength of the previous one, 9.2 scarey stuff indeed.

The Alaskan earthquake occurred on Good Friday, March 27, 1964, at 5:36 PM local time. It was the largest earthquake ever recorded in North America.
Duration estimates range from 3 to 5 minutes.
Sources vary as to the magnitude of this earthquake, in part because a variety of scales are used to measure earthquakes. Bruce Bolt lists it as 8.6 Ms, where Ms is the surface-wave magnitude. The USGS gives it a 9.2 Mw, where Mw is the moment magnitude.

In response to your statement: "If LA’s ‘94 shocker lasted that long, the devastation would have been unbelievable." - in fact, the 1994 Northridge quake DID last almost that long, a total of fifteen seconds (see http://www.fema.gov/hazard/earthquake/usquakes.shtm ). I suspect that the disparity of damage and casualties between the two quakes has less to do with the magnitude and duration of the quake than it does to the fact that buildings on Southern California hvae to meet some rigorous building standards. How much do you want to bet that the Chinese government either has no building standards regarding earthquake safety, or that it does not enforce the standards that it does have?

scientition... hee!!

I thought about the expanding and contracting too, but that doesn't seem to be what the scientitions are talking about. What gets me is that one of those linked articles (from livescience.com) went on for ages about what we COULD see and what we've seen in the past, and then admitted:

Burgmann isn't too worried about sea level rise causing more earthquakes or volcanic eruptions though, noting that catastrophic rates of sea level rise in the future are uncertain and that the current rate of rise—about 0.12 inches per year (3 millimeters per year)—isn't enough to destabilize the crust.

"It would take a long time to add up to a significant amount," Burgmann said—so while it's an area of research to keep an eye on, it's unlikely to have any disastrous consequences, at least for now.

Oh sure... get us all stressed out and THEN say it's not happening yet. Sheesh.

The Lisbon 1755 earthquake, the event that changed Europe, bye bye religion and superstition, hello science.

ferrofluid @ 53:

General_Rennenkampf @ 48:

Darth_Romney @ 36:

mudshark @ 28:

The earth is a sphere...one among many in space. It's a relatively tiny object when you get down to brass tacks. Whether our brainiacs can detect, prove or even imagine it, seismic events on one side of it do influence the other side and to think otherwise is naive. C'mon....we had an earthquake just a while ago here in Illinois of all places. And if someone doesn't think global warming has noting to do with earthquakes and all that melting water, then ask yourself if you remember ever seeing a "pothole" on the street!

The irony is that the Mother of All Volcanoes is in, guess where, Yellowstone. That one blows, the entire western corner of North America is covered in ashes and its the Year Without a Summer, Round II. It's getting time, geologically for it to blow its top, and it would do more damage than a NATO-Warsaw Pact war would do.

Not to mention in addition to the San Andreas, there's the New Madrid Fault, which could cause more damage than the SA fault would. Mr. Natural Selection's gonna make us his bitch again, oh yes, he will.

The Deccan Traps of NW India, one of the probable extinction era boundaries.

Yes, that's pretty much what Yellowstone would do. Another delicious irony for me is that on the 2,000th anniversary of the birth of Jesus, an asteroid is supposed to hit here.

We humans have been doing our own K-T event for 150,000 years. Wait till population and overconsumption go hand-in-hand with this to open up Mr. Natural Selection's barrage against us...

Darth_Romney @ 36:

mudshark @ 28:

Hey the atmosphere might play a role in making the earth shake, who knows? They could all be linked. We Are Talkin Nature here.

But that's just speculation on my part. The planet did just have a Volcano in Chile erupt a week or so ago. They all could very well be linked.

The earth is a sphere...one among many in space. It's a relatively tiny object when you get down to brass tacks. Whether our brainiacs can detect, prove or even imagine it, seismic events on one side of it do influence the other side and to think otherwise is naive. C'mon....we had an earthquake just a while ago here in Illinois of all places. And if someone doesn't think global warming has noting to do with earthquakes and all that melting water, then ask yourself if you remember ever seeing a "pothole" on the street!

I am not getting your logic from the double negative, but are you trying to equate the potholes in pavement, to seismic processes?

Wow...

'64 Alaska Good Friday Earthquake footage

ferrofluid @ 58:

The Lisbon 1755 earthquake, the event that changed Europe, bye bye religion and superstition, hello science.

Actually, the failure of the Bishop of Rome to stop Y. pestis from slaughtering 1/3 of Europe's population started the ball rolling on that. According to contemporary accounts, when the Black Death started running amock in Europe, the Pope prayed for it to stop. Guess what....

it failed. The continuing death toll enabled people like Copernicus to wonder whether Church doctrine on the Universe was right or not.

L.A. Confidential @ 65:

General_Rennenkampf @ 60:

We humans have been doing our own K-T event for 150,000 years. Wait till population and overconsumption go hand-in-hand with this to open up Mr. Natural Selection's barrage against us...

We'll be cleansed like a germ.

The irony is that 20th Century population explosions guarantee at least 60 or 70,000 of us will survive. They'll live a Paleolithic lifestyle all over again, but they'll survive.

Andy K Jong Il @ 64:

'64 Alaska Good Friday Earthquake footage

Some of those tsunami waves were estimated at 100 Ft.

General_Rennenkampf @ 68:

The irony is that 20th Century population explosions guarantee at least 60 or 70,000 of us will survive. They'll live a Paleolithic lifestyle all over again, but they'll survive.

True, with a little ingenuity they'll actually have a reasonable future.

lafin gas @ 67:

Andy K Jong Il @ 55:

mudshark @ 41:

Jimmi the Grey @ 35:
DING,DING,DING! We have a winner! Andy! Tell him what he's won!
Don't touch that dial, a spokesperson will be right with you.

WTF? Nothing! The few degrees in atmospheric change can barely do shit to the insulated molten iron core of the Earth. Do you know how hot or cold the atmosphere would have to be to counter the natural effects of gravity that cause the extreme temps at our core?

Again, zero, zip, nada.

Going on another tangent, we haven't even brought up pandemic diseases and/or global food shortages yet. Give 'em a few weeks. They're comin'.

Sorry Andy, again I disagree with you on a point of physics. The core has little to do with earthquakes that are in the earths crust which is very thin. The tectonic plates are shifting and could be affected by temperature, not just pressure.

Plplplplplplplplplplssssss. :)

L.A. Confidential @ 72:

General_Rennenkampf @ 68:

The irony is that 20th Century population explosions guarantee at least 60 or 70,000 of us will survive. They'll live a Paleolithic lifestyle all over again, but they'll survive.

True, with a little ingenuity they'll actually have a reasonable future.

Somewhat. The odds of the first millenium or so past the convergence of all these disaster points aren't good for any species. Given time, we'll end up remaining a grasslands bipedal scavenger, but we'll remain. However, in the time it would take for us to survive, most other life will have had a chance to bounce back also.

When the disaster points converge, if we act like we do now, civilization will fall. Fishing on large scales and mass-hunting will also cease. So, land and sea critters will bounce back. However, one fear I have is that in the event of this onrushing doom, is that the survivors will end up back in the tribal trap of endless war again.

Mike Kandefer @ 20 says: It seems like global warming is becoming more of an dogmatic position, than a sensible scientific position when one starts blaming every natural disaster on it. What does global warming have to do with earthquakes? While, I’m not a geological expert, it seems implausible, but I’m open to the evidence you may have. However, if none is to be had, perhaps a retraction is in order?

Mike, have you ever heard of something called Plate Tetonics? If not google it and study up. If you have google it anyway and refresh. OK, got that done? Good! Now picture moving billions of tons of weight from one point to another on those Plates. Got the picture in your mind? Good! Now try and remember that water flows downhill. Remembering? Good! Now you do understand that Global Warming IS causing the polar ice caps and most of the worlds glaciers to recede rapidly, right? You still with me? Good, 'cause you see all those billions of gallons of water moving around on those floating Plates weighs a little over 8 pounds each gallon. If you still don't get it try floating on an inflatable float and move around some. Same thing.

lafin gas @ 67:

Andy K Jong Il @ 55:

mudshark @ 41:

Jimmi the Grey @ 35:
DING,DING,DING! We have a winner! Andy! Tell him what he's won!
Don't touch that dial, a spokesperson will be right with you.

WTF? Nothing! The few degrees in atmospheric change can barely do shit to the insulated molten iron core of the Earth. Do you know how hot or cold the atmosphere would have to be to counter the natural effects of gravity that cause the extreme temps at our core?

Again, zero, zip, nada.

Going on another tangent, we haven't even brought up pandemic diseases and/or global food shortages yet. Give 'em a few weeks. They're comin'.

Sorry Andy, again I disagree with you on a point of physics. The core has little to do with earthquakes that are in the earths crust which is very thin. The tectonic plates are shifting and could be affected by temperature, not just pressure.

Sorry, lafin', but all of the man-made CFC's that might ever be released have 1/1 miilionth the effect on the crust of the earth as a little gas burp in the earth's core.

lafin gas @ 79:

mudshark @ 74:

lafin gas @ 67:

Andy K Jong Il @ 55:

Sorry Andy, again I disagree with you on a point of physics. The core has little to do with earthquakes that are in the earths crust which is very thin. The tectonic plates are shifting and could be affected by temperature, not just pressure.

Plplplplplplplplplplssssss. :)

What the hell does Plplplplplplplplplplssssss mean?.

Hey? It Could Happen.
LOL |)

The Dude @ 69:

Jaycubed @ 61:

craven morehead @ 3:

what do earth quakes have to do with global warming

Mat Hike @ 4:

rofl earthquakes and global warming have nothing to do with each other.

Mike Kandefer @ 20:

It seems like global warming is becoming more of an dogmatic position, than a sensible scientific position when one starts blaming every natural disaster on it. What does global warming have to do with earthquakes? While, I'm not a geological expert, it seems implausible, but I'm open to the evidence you may have. However, if none is to be had, perhaps a retraction is in order?

Actually, there are several possible connections between earthquakes & global warming. It has been demonstrated that man-made lakes have an effect on earthquake frequencies due to the mass of such bodies of water stressing buried fault zones. Changes in climate cause changes in patterns of erosion & deposition due to both changes in weather and in vegetation. Redistribute a few billions of tons of mass around and the Earth will deform to support the new distribution. That means earthquakes to relieve the stress.

There is evidence of a connection between storms and earthquakes (Storms can cause a huge mass of water to be pushed to one side of an ocean basin.) With our ice-caps rapidly melting the sea level will rise with several effects; the edges of continents will be depressed by the weight of the water, and the land under the ice-caps will rebound with a certainty of increased and probably massive earthquake activity. Consider the tsunamis that would be generated by the rebounding of Antarctica's crust (2 or 3 miles of ice cover removed almost instantly on a continent surrounded by & directly connected to every ocean but the Arctic), it is likely they would have no historic precedent. Greenland will easily supply the same effect for the Arctic & North Atlantic oceans when it rebounds from the melting of its ice cap.

Without links and/or references, it is hard to take a lot of this babble at face value.

If we are playing a "lets speculate" game, then it is more likely that earthquakes, volcanoes, etc all have more of an effect on the atmosphere/weather than vice versa.

Since you are too lazy to check it out yourself, here are a few references from the scientific & engineering literature. Sorry I don't regularly provide scientific citations on a political blog . . . OH, that's right, you provided no evidence or references yourself for your dismissive babble.

http://www.nyx.net/~dcypser/induceq/ris.html

http://economicobjectorvism.wordpress.com/2007/09/08/melting-ice-cap-tri...

http://www.seis.com.au/Basics/Dams.html

http://environment.newscientist.com/channel/earth/hurricane-season/dn137...

http://science.propeller.com/story/2007/09/08/melting-ice-cap-triggering...

Ah John, that one really upset the tulip cart.

I would warrant that the earthquakes, whilst not a global warming issue (citation needed), sure demonstrate how unprepared the world is for the tremendous volume of shit that has been slowly but surely gathering momentum in the direction of the fan, which has itself been gaining considerable rotational velocity (miracle needed).

"The Dud":

The main reason I do not regularly provide reference citations is that it takes forever for C&L to clear comments with linked references.

It will show up eventually.

now that I've pissed off a few people. SEE YA.

Andy K Jong Il @ 88:

General_Rennenkampf @ 76:

L.A. Confidential @ 72:

General_Rennenkampf @ 68:

True, with a little ingenuity they'll actually have a reasonable future.

Somewhat. The odds of the first millenium or so past the convergence of all these disaster points aren't good for any species. Given time, we'll end up remaining a grasslands bipedal scavenger, but we'll remain. However, in the time it would take for us to survive, most other life will have had a chance to bounce back also.

When the disaster points converge, if we act like we do now, civilization will fall. Fishing on large scales and mass-hunting will also cease. So, land and sea critters will bounce back. However, one fear I have is that in the event of this onrushing doom, is that the survivors will end up back in the tribal trap of endless war again.

I'd hope some books would survive the fall. Spoken language would have to, I think. But at least those homo sapiens of the future will have a few things they won't have to learn over again, and they might be able to learn from their ancestors mistakes.

I hope, anyway.

Don't for get seeds.

mudshark @ 91:

Andy K Jong Il @ 88:

General_Rennenkampf @ 76:

L.A. Confidential @ 72:

Somewhat. The odds of the first millenium or so past the convergence of all these disaster points aren't good for any species. Given time, we'll end up remaining a grasslands bipedal scavenger, but we'll remain. However, in the time it would take for us to survive, most other life will have had a chance to bounce back also.

When the disaster points converge, if we act like we do now, civilization will fall. Fishing on large scales and mass-hunting will also cease. So, land and sea critters will bounce back. However, one fear I have is that in the event of this onrushing doom, is that the survivors will end up back in the tribal trap of endless war again.

I'd hope some books would survive the fall. Spoken language would have to, I think. But at least those homo sapiens of the future will have a few things they won't have to learn over again, and they might be able to learn from their ancestors mistakes.

I hope, anyway.

Don't for get seeds.

How much good does seed survival do if the people who know the combination to that seed vault they're building have died in the Fall of Civilization. Just because it would be an utter fuckover by no means means that it won't happen.

General_Rennenkampf @ 90:

L.A. Confidential @ 84:

General_Rennenkampf @ 83:

Pretty much, yes. And one thing's for sure, after the oncoming Glacial period, the surving generations will come to resemble Neanderthals again. The Neanderthal body plan is nothing but cold-adaption.

It's gonna get bad around 2050, and I'll be 61 that year...

Sounds close. Unless humanity wakes up. And FAST.

Expecting logic and reason from humans is like calling Bush a genius. Neither is possible and neither works.

China is a big problem. Unrestrained population growth combined with a growing addiction to Western style consumerism.

Not a good situation.

General_Rennenkampf @ 92:

Andy K Jong Il @ 88:

General_Rennenkampf @ 76:

L.A. Confidential @ 72:

Somewhat. The odds of the first millenium or so past the convergence of all these disaster points aren't good for any species. Given time, we'll end up remaining a grasslands bipedal scavenger, but we'll remain. However, in the time it would take for us to survive, most other life will have had a chance to bounce back also.

When the disaster points converge, if we act like we do now, civilization will fall. Fishing on large scales and mass-hunting will also cease. So, land and sea critters will bounce back. However, one fear I have is that in the event of this onrushing doom, is that the survivors will end up back in the tribal trap of endless war again.

I'd hope some books would survive the fall. Spoken language would have to, I think. But at least those homo sapiens of the future will have a few things they won't have to learn over again, and they might be able to learn from their ancestors mistakes.

I hope, anyway.

Even if books do survive the fall, the regression back to even Dark-Ages society and the rate of changes of language mean that by the time civilization gets up to a level where it wants to figure out about the past again, most books would be unreadable. :(

Guess it depends on the books that survive, though, doesn't it? Leave 'em some Newton, they go one way- maybe like a Star Trek direction. Give 'em Bil Keane and we'll end up with Planet of the Apes.

One hypothesis for the relationship between temperature and earthquakes would be if the polar icecaps melded and changed the pressure on the tectonic plates.

Andy and lafin - global warming's effect on earthquakes is pretty much up there with the same reasoning why the Coriolis effect works for hurricanes but not for toilets in Australia - order of magnitude, dude.

http://sciencereview.berkeley.edu/articles/issue9/who-knew.pdf

On the other hand, if we're dealing with the mentality of people who think magic tricks with toothpicks is 'wizardry' and that dinosaurs and people existed at the same time, well, hell. Yeah, sure, global warming causes earthquakes, y'betcha, I'm totally on board for that, whatever. Is that going to be enough for us to admit global warming is real and get serious about stopping it now, please?

Andy K Jong Il @ 97:

General_Rennenkampf @ 92:

Andy K Jong Il @ 88:

General_Rennenkampf @ 76:

I'd hope some books would survive the fall. Spoken language would have to, I think. But at least those homo sapiens of the future will have a few things they won't have to learn over again, and they might be able to learn from their ancestors mistakes.

I hope, anyway.

Even if books do survive the fall, the regression back to even Dark-Ages society and the rate of changes of language mean that by the time civilization gets up to a level where it wants to figure out about the past again, most books would be unreadable. :(

Guess it depends on the books that survive, though, doesn't it? Leave 'em some Newton, they go one way- maybe like a Star Trek direction. Give 'em Bil Keane and we'll end up with Planet of the Apes.

L.A. Confidential @ 95:

General_Rennenkampf @ 90:

L.A. Confidential @ 84:

General_Rennenkampf @ 83:

Sounds close. Unless humanity wakes up. And FAST.

Expecting logic and reason from humans is like calling Bush a genius. Neither is possible and neither works.

China is a big problem. Unrestrained population growth combined with a growing addiction to Western style consumerism.

Not a good situation.

L.A. Confidential: The PRC is not quite unrestricted. They have the One-Child Policy, after all. But no matter how you cut it, the idea of 1 billion Chinese living like 300 million Americans is....disturbing, to put it mildly. We've done enough damage, the Chinese would do over a magnitude of two greater damage.

Andy K. Jong Il: Or, for a really nightmarish situation, the only books to survive are the Little Red Book, Mein Kampf, Das Kapital, the Bible, and the Quran. Leave those books as the survivors...

We're talking something baaadddd....

L.A. Confidential @ 95, one child per couple equals unrestrained population growth? I'm not disagreeing that China isn't a part of the problem, almost as much as the US even, but I would say the one child rule is a restraint on population growth.

How about this book?:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Canticle_for_Leibowitz

nonny mouse @ 101:

Andy and lafin - global warming's effect on earthquakes is pretty much up there with the same reasoning why the Coriolis effect works for hurricanes but not for toilets in Australia - order of magnitude, dude.

http://sciencereview.berkeley.edu/articles/issue9/who-knew.pdf

On the other hand, if we're dealing with the mentality of people who think magic tricks with toothpicks is 'wizardry' and that dinosaurs and people existed at the same time, well, hell. Yeah, sure, global warming causes earthquakes, y'betcha, I'm totally on board for that, whatever. Is that going to be enough for us to admit global warming is real and get serious about stopping it now, please?

So you don’t believe in the Butterfly effect?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Butterfly_effect

Of COURSE it's global warming!

I was late for work today. Why? GLOBAL WARMING.

I baked a cake yesterday, but I think it was a little overcooked. Why? GLOBAL WARMING.

Geez...this is worse than having to listen to that crazy homeless guy on the street who says that aliens control humanity.

Do a little research and you'll find out that the internet has made the world our country, so whenever there is a storm, it seems like it is happening right next door, because everyone reports it.

It's an illusion my friend. The information age has made the world seem like it's going to hell, when in reality it's just more information that we have to get used to.

Google the latest weather statistics and you'll see that overall, there is not a shred of evidence to suggest that there is any significant increase in violent weather patterns worldwide.

Calm the frick down...

lafin - sure I buy into the Butterfly Effect. Just saying that for global warming to affect earthquake activity on that scale, you'd have to have one HELL of a lot of butterflies.

nonny mouse @ 114:

lafin - sure I buy into the Butterfly Effect. Just saying that for global warming to affect earthquake activity on that scale, you'd have to have one HELL of a lot of butterflies.

And I’m just saying that temperature could be one of many contributing factors!

nonny mouse @ 108:

How about this book?:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Canticle_for_Leibowitz

I've heard of it, but never read it...or even knew much about it! Put that one on my list for my next trip to Argos Books.

Here's one for you: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ishmael_%28novel%29 .

Drew @ 112:

Of COURSE it's global warming!

I was late for work today. Why? GLOBAL WARMING.

I baked a cake yesterday, but I think it was a little overcooked. Why? GLOBAL WARMING.

Geez...this is worse than having to listen to that crazy homeless guy on the street who says that aliens control humanity.

Do a little research and you'll find out that the internet has made the world our country, so whenever there is a storm, it seems like it is happening right next door, because everyone reports it.

It's an illusion my friend. The information age has made the world seem like it's going to hell, when in reality it's just more information that we have to get used to.

Google the latest weather statistics and you'll see that overall, there is not a shred of evidence to suggest that there is any significant increase in violent weather patterns worldwide.

Calm the frick down...

Actually I think your examples have been proven to be caused by Bill Clinton.

*snark off*

lafin -

Average temperature of the atmosphere at the surface of Earth - 15 °C (59 °F)

Average temperature of the outer mantel - between 1,400 C (2520 ºF) and 3,000 C (5400 º F)

Orders of magnitude. A rise of 10 degrees F at the earth's surface might kill us and all other life on the planet. But it's going to make diddly-squat difference to the temperatures at which earthquake dynamics occur.

But again, if that gets people to start taking climate change seriously? Hell, yeah! Global warming and ten million butterflies causes earthquakes! Yup in-doodly-deedy!

Uh, earthquakes have nothing to do with Global Warming. And I seriously doubt the cyclone did either.

Kind of a strange post.

"global warming" is an elite big business scam to extort more money out of us in the name of carbon taxes. these corporations who have been polluting our rivers and streams with toxic crap, cutting down our trees as fast as they pop up, destroying the bees, the salmon and about all other living creatures on the planet, are going GREEN. don't make me laugh. this is all about extorting more money from "we the taxpayers" they don't give two shits about our planet, just profit. i have been environmentally active for over 20 years and these are the same companies who laughed at people like me and derided our causes and making fun of us greens. they aint fooling me. this is about giving them tax breaks and subsidizing them for acting responsible (which they should have been before this manufactured threat) it is a total "look over here scam"

that being said, i applaud some businesses for finally being realistic about some of the destruction they have caused but believe me, most are going to pass the buck to us. that is what this is ultimately about. if you think the corporations give a shit about the planet or anything on it, guess again. don't fall for cfr member global elitist al gores propaganda campaign. he works as a consultant to a company that depends on "global warming" to create new opportunites to rake us over the coals.

time to wake up...

lafin gas @ 127:

peacepipe @ 126:

"global warming" is an elite big business scam to extort more money out of us in the name of carbon taxes. these corporations who have been polluting our rivers and streams with toxic crap, cutting down our trees as fast as they pop up, destroying the bees, the salmon and about all other living creatures on the planet, are going GREEN. don't make me laugh. this is all about extorting more money from "we the taxpayers" they don't give two shits about our planet, just profit. i have been environmentally active for over 20 years and these are the same companies who laughed at people like me and derided our causes and making fun of us greens. they aint fooling me. this is about giving them tax breaks and subsidizing them for acting responsible (which they should have been before this manufactured threat) it is a total "look over here scam"

that being said, i applaud some businesses for finally being realistic about some of the destruction they have caused but believe me, most are going to pass the buck to us. that is what this is ultimately about. if you think the corporations give a shit about the planet or anything on it, guess again. don't fall for cfr member global elitist al gores propaganda campaign. he works as a consultant to a company that depends on "global warming" to create new opportunites to rake us over the coals.

time to wake up...

I want some of what you are smokin!

you don't need to smoke anything. it is a scientific FACT that the tempatures on the planet have been falling. we just experienced the coldest snowiest winter in chicago, snow for the first time in china etc. etc.
this is a big business scam. you really think things are going to change?? oh yes BP chevron etc. will have these nice little go green slogans but they aren't going to change. they will get tax breaks and incentives to possibly convert say 5% of thier future investment in clean energy. its a joke... on us. watch for states to impose taxes on us for our suv's, like my trooper in a million years would come close to the havoc reeked by say chevron. bull buscuits. don't be sheeple, this is a scam. more and more scientists are coming forward to say that temps are dropping, using science, not fear tactics.

where were you all 10 to 20 years ago when people like me were talking about the irreversible damage these corpos have been leaving us with. now, when a global elitist cfr member says so, it is a problem. news to you... it has been a problem for years. don't let them shift the blame on us. the environment has been neglected and changes need be made but what they are doing is the classic redirection. blame the little guy for the pollution, not the manufacturers who pollute our rivers and air.

time to stop being the suckers they think we are!!

Don't be afraid. Welcome the future as a friend.

I believe that the "strength" of an earthquake is a function of its duration and intensity (since its total seismic energy released), not just the intensity of the shaking, so if the China quake was that long, it wasn't nearly as violent feeling as the shorter California ones.

An analogy. With the Richter scale, a single punch to the face is the same as twenty minutes of light slapping. Or, carrying a 100 lb box once, or splitting that up into ten trips of 10lb boxes.

Point being, a 20 minute 7.0 quake does NOT feel like a 20 second 7.0 quake lasting for 20 minutes. It probably feels a lot gentler, but longer.

nonny mouse @ 129:

lafin - I give you this:

http://online.wsj.com/public/article/SB114981650181275742-sOx58NXvfKz2szefZXutgTSbaDI_20070608.html

Thank you, you're too kind!

Umm...actually, the Northridge earthquake lasted for nearly two minutes and somewhere around 50 people were killed. I don't think another minute or minute and a half would've toted up the same score as in China, simply because of California's earthquake preparedness and building codes. I don't really want to ever know if I am right, but I think I am right. I lived through that quake, about four miles from the epicenter, and terrifying as it was, I don't really think a few more seconds would've mattered that much in the overall damage report. Even so, it was the most costly natural disaster to hit the nation until hurricane Katrina.

Well, I see I started quite the stir when I suggested that the atmosphere can in some way contribute to earthquakes.
OK, Let me see?
How's this?
The earth warms, and changes the atmosphere which in turn changes the earth. Like I said, It could Happen.

On a side note, Barcelona is in a 5 year drought. They now need to ship in water by giant freighter. Barcelona is now imposing serious water restrictions.

Also, in Calif, The East Bay area is also imposing serious water restrictions, pending fines for water misuse.

mudshark@#136

I'm not a geologist, but I don't think global warming affects the frequency or intensity of earthquakes.

Global warming, etc., certainly affects weather patterns and many other things.

But, it doesn't cause earthquakes.

C'mon, this is explained in fifth-grade science class.

Mat Hike @ 4:

rofl earthquakes and global warming have nothing to do with each other.

Glaciermelt globally, mammoth dams local faults & plates redistribute pressure as simply as one + one = two. They have everything to do with earthquakes.

earl @ 142:

But a big ass dam in China is affecting the climate and can potentially trigger earthquakes.

Can't say they didnt see it coming either:
www.gi.alaska.edu/ScienceForum/ASF14/1465.html

The dam in China is effecting the ecology, flora and fauna, and the weight & pressure of water & massive amts of silt are effecting the weight distribution on the faults but not the climate the way 7 new coal facilities in China are effecting the climate.

nonny mouse, you don't seem to comprehend the scale of the glacial and polar ice melting that has been going on the last few years. But if you're so certain of your superior knowledge on the matter you should be contacting MIT and Oxford to let them know that millions of tons of weight redistribution on the Tectonic Plates has no effect on plate interfaces and faults. Instead of spending tens of thousands of dollars on studying that they can just pay you to tell them what's what. It's disconcerting hearing you spout almost the same arguments as the global warming deniers.

There is one thing the peoples of China can be thankful for, they don't have Bush as a leader. And 2012 is starting to look like a good thing.