Bill Moyers Journal: Bombing Iran: Everything Old Is New Again
By Nicole Belle Friday May 16, 2008 7:45pm
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Bill Moyers looks at the parallels between the rhetoric ramping up to the invasion and occupation of Iraq and the aggressive posturing of the White House and their minions against Iran today.
BILL MOYERS: A final update. Last month Victor Navasky of the COLUMBIA JOURNALISM REVIEW told us about how all the talk about military strikes against Iran reminds him of the arguments made for invading Iraq five years ago
VICTOR NAVASKY: If you read Norman Podhoretz's account...where he says that we have a carrier right off the coast of Iran, and all the President has to do is say "go". And that the non-military solutions have not worked. You can't not take it seriously.
BILL MOYERS: Since then, the talk about bombing Iran has only increased. And the biggest talker of all is the Connecticut hawk, Senator Joe Lieberman. The Democratic candidate for vice president eight years ago has now endorsed Republican senator John McCain for president and become his alter ego on the Middle East. Wherever McCain goes, Lieberman is sure to show up.
Transcripts below the fold. The full Bill Moyers Journal episode is available online.
BILL MOYERS: A final update. Last month Victor Navasky of the COLUMBIA JOURNALISM REVIEW told us about how all the talk about military strikes against Iran reminds him of the arguments made for invading Iraq five years ago
VICTOR NAVASKY: If you read Norman Podhoretz's account...where he says that we have a carrier right off the coast of Iran, and all the President has to do is say "go". And that the non-military solutions have not worked. You can't not take it seriously.
BILL MOYERS: Since then, the talk about bombing Iran has only increased. And the biggest talker of all is the Connecticut hawk, Senator Joe Lieberman. The Democratic candidate for vice president eight years ago has now endorsed Republican senator John McCain for president and become his alter ego on the Middle East. Wherever McCain goes, Lieberman is sure to show up. Earlier this week Lieberman called air strikes against Iran "a distinct possibility," and on Wednesday he and talk show host Bill Bennett coupled their banter about Hillary Clinton with some hopeful praise for her own hawkish policies toward Iran.
BILL BENNETT: This is a girl who puts on her pearls, goes down, throws down a shot of liquor, and bombs Iran...you know...lookout Mrs. Bennett, this is my kind of girl.
JOE LIEBERMAN: ... it does have an appeal to it.
BILL MOYERS: For his part, President Bush this week once again indicates we will be in Iraq for a long, long time. To pull out he said, to fail to maintain what he calls "a forward presence" in the Middle East, would send the wrong signals. The President also disclosed that out of respect for the sacrifice of American soldiers and their families, he had given up golf, although there were sightings of him on the course reported after the renunciation. I'm not making this up.
That's it for THE JOURNAL. We'll see you next week.
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There are people under those bombs.
Can there be any doubt as to who owns our civil servants - the people who are supposed to be doing OUR business? The corporations who make the machinery of war.
War. It's Good for Business.
Bad for people and living things.
Lieberman should rot in hell. He is a whore to the pimps of the war machine.
JOE LIEBERMAN
LIES! To protect his own interest , which not You or Me, But his own self worth and gain.
This prick is ready for another war and who fight it? Not Joe, he will be busy at the Repig convention this year.
Has anyone asked Joe, what the outcome would be in the mideast? How would Jordon, Or lyiba or Saudi arabia, and various other close nations compenstate for his DEATH WISH on iran??
Hey joe, where you going with that gun in your hand? Hey joe, please dont shove that into the presidents hand.
Ned Lamont beat his sorry ass two years ago because ppl in Conn, were sick and tired of Liebermans shit.
Lets nail this prick to the porch of truth and make him admitt why he wants To Bomb Iran.
And joes answer is,,, HATE!!!! pure and simple. Shit joey probably wished he could go back to europe and bomb them again but thats been there and done that by ppl who were older and wiser then that piece of shit.
Joe blowlieberman,,,STFU already. Retire, go out in style not as some hanger on and lobbying washington to no fucking end either.
Have some pride man,, and self respect,, show some dignity, in other words, Get over it!
Where the hell are these magical troops that are going to bomb Iran come from? Shrub's ass? Lieberman's loogies? Inquiring minds want to know!
Israel.
We are living on Channel Z!
I still want somebody to answer as to where Bush is going to magically get these troops to invade Iran, as we have none and occupation would make Iraq look fun and sweet.
Any takers?
Bonus points if the answer includes the words "God" and "Second Coming." ;)
General_Rennenkampf @ 5:
Pastor John Hagee:
"Again he said unto me “Prophesy unto these bones, and say unto them, ‘O you dry bones, hear the word of the LORD!” [Biblical reference: Ezekiel 37, New King James Version, “Dry Bones” prophecy], and he spoke to them and they stood and they became an exceeding great army - meaning they physically came to life. Now how is God going to bring them back to the land? The answer is fishers and hunters. The answer is given in Jeremiah 16, verse 15 and following. God says in Jeremiah 16 - “Behold I will bring them the Jewish people again unto their land that I gave unto their fathers” - that would be Abraham, Isaac and Jacob - “Behold I will send for many fishers and after will I send for many hunters. And they the hunters shall hunt them”
Attila the Appeaser @ 9:
OK...
So the troops will be zombies from Palestine then? Hooray for the Theopublican Zombie Army! May it eat brains and fight manfully! ;)
Bill Moyers: ‘Democracy in America Is a Series of Narrow Escapes, and We May Be Running Out of Luck’
"I have been lucky enough to spend my adult life as a journalist, acquiring a priceless education in the ways of the world, actually getting paid to practice one of my craft’s essential imperatives: connect the dots.
The conclusion that we are in trouble is unavoidable."
full story: http://www.alternet.org/democracy/85521/
P.S. Guys better start telling the truth and quit alluding to mysterious outcomes. Fucking speak.
I S R A E L
Remember when we used to joke about the fact that Bush didn't know that invading Iraq would effect Iran? Of course it was never true, but don't forget where this all started: Rush Limbaugh
Rush Limbaugh was the first one ever to mention Iran. He whispered it. He started the ball rolling. He pulled bombing Iran out of thin air and here we are talking about whether to do it or not when the American people have never even discussed it, and it certainly has never been authorized.
Religion is such hype. All of them , every last one of them, has cause more death and destruction than anything else in human history. Religion is the cause of more hatred, than racism. You will convert or die, and be lost to hell for eternity.BullShit!
Of course when I say "convert or die" I'm refering to the middle ages.
And they're still killing people in the name of religion.
The end times are here folks, better go out and get some beer and a nice bottle of tequila.Might as well go out with a smile on yer face.: )
[Deleted. Friar Tuck, C'mon, what are you thinking? Please don't post in all bold lettering and or all Caps. Site Monitor]
[Deleted, refers to deleted post. Site Monitor]
mudshark @ 14:
Hold it a minute. Would you really want to stretch the definition of religion by considering both Capitalism and Communism religions? Neither are especially religious, and both combined killed around 220 million people. Considering that Earth's population didn't get to 1 billion until into the Capitalist era, it kinda falls on its face that religion caused the most deaths. Of course, if you take proportion of population into account, then Ghenghis Khan's animists killed the most people of any group.
As for the end-times, not the diabolical imaginings of John Hagee are here, but Rome and Han China Collapse Part II: This time, it's personal! is the end times scenario. Enjoy this civilization while it lasts, cuz the crash is coming, from global warming (or not, for the deniers), environmental destruction, and loss of oil. We're entering the second Volkerwanderung era...
Joe wants to be the big hero for Israel, Bomb Iran and become instant American Israeli hero.
Joe, the US doesn't need to "help" Israel, they are perfectly capable themselves. Your just trying to stir up votes for your fire breathing friend Mcbush.
General@17
Now that you mention it, yes I would consider Capitalism and Communism a religion. Why not, they worship both of them.
Lieberman (R) is going to his ass kicked to the committee chair curb. Can hardly wait.
General_Rennenkampf @ 17:
Or as the good Rev. Hagee would put it, "Die trochen Knochen Wanderzeiten"
Joe Lieberman gives the White House war criminals what they want, whenever they want it . That, for the simple-minded, is what "appeasement" means. Not talking to, not engaging in dialogue.....giving them what they want . So Joe , like Prescott Bush, is an appeaser.
mudshark @ 19:
Who's the "they"?
The two are ideologies, a related animal, and a more dangerous one. In religion, there's always the alternative to let people live and convert (unless it's something like Shinto or Greco-Roman polytheism, then you're fucked). In ideology, there's no conversion, only being used either as victim or supporter of it.
Capitalism believes in making you unequal and suffering. Communism simply made suffering equal.
Attila the Appeaser @ 21:
I don't think Rev. Hagee can read Shakespearean English, much less speak German.
Friar Tuck @ 15:
Come on Friar Tuck. Pull it together. Keep it together. You know the routine. We're all working here.
fact of the matter remains, the jews killed christ, yet they believe in the old testament, where they shall be named the ppl of god, find a land that is without war and they can call thier own.
Um that 1947 choice was the worst case possible. Since the death of christ, jews are scatterd among the earth like dust, untill god deems them good enough to call them home.
Even today, most jewish ppl do NOT believe in christ, but say ´´yeah he was around etc´´. So who or what is the jewish ppls mesaiah????
If you go into certian parts of jersulume today, you arent allowed in areas that are claimed by jews. Nor are you allowed to talk to them either. Special visit sights are set up by the goverment(s) to allow the christians to follow pillage to thier lord and saviour. Expect armed military on both sides and expect shouts of ´´SCUM´´ because you happen to see the Muslims version of where their saviour was born or lived etc.
Iam sick and tired of ppl that took over the Holy land , make it off limits to those of thousands that are christan or jewish or muslim, and to DARE!!!!!! DARE!!!!!!!! ask those why they are there and how long then intend to stay.
Seems to me,,you dont want to talk about it,, seems to me,, you just turn your pretty head and walk away!
GOODNIGHT and GOOD LUCK
Best regards,,
oh and DANKE FOR C&L blog as well, cool beans and franks.
BRFT!
General_Rennenkampf @ 23:
I dare say they would be the big money people, and, anyone who holds money in the highest regard. Money first all else .....when ever. As for Communism, they, would be the ones who stand to benefit to most from it. I see what you're saying, and you are saying it very well. I've been reading your post for quite some time now. You are a educated person, that i can tell.Your very bright and articulate. As for my comment about religion/capitalism/ Communism, I think you get my point. I'm not saying all people with faith are bad or like the way I described religion( or the other 2 for that matter) It's the people who run things. The people at the top.Anyway thanks for responding General. It's hot here and I'm havin a cold beer. see ya. : )
Thank God for C&L and Bruce Springsteen. Peace. America.
In other news: Gun zealots won't allow guns at their own convention http://www.nydailynews.com/news/politics/2008/05/17/2008-05-17_with_mcca...
But pushing to allow them on the streets, shopping centers and schools? No problem!
OH if strong type is not allowed then why is it available on your websight? sorry to offend .
god bless and good night :)
Best regards,,,
mudshark @ 27:
Well, yes, but remember, the message of Christianity is "be nice to everyone so you'll go to heaven" and the message of Islam is "be one equal group of people before Allah, that you enter the Paradise." And within 400 years of Christendom rising to power you got Constantine and in Islam there was Aurangzeb.
Absolute truth + Human Race = Mass slaughter. No matter whether the absolute truth is based on Jesus, Allah, Amatesaru, Zeus, or the Proletarian Revolution.
Just the same old crap, someone wrote some crap down in a book and said " This Is It, OBEY, or be castout.
same old shit, different language.
General_Rennenkampf @ 31:
Gah! Meant Charlemagne. Constantine was a kook, but he wasn't the Charlemagne level of evil. Now Theodosius, OTOH....(shudders.)
mudshark @ 32:
The danger of believing words on paper comes when those words are the Absolute. Look at Mao's Cultural Revolution for one example. For another example, look at the modern fundamentalisms. They all cling to an absolute form of truth and in power tend to produce brutal governments. Certainly, you won't find much difference between strict adherents of Mein Kampf and strict adherents of the Bible or the Quran. Literalism in any form is destructive to a modern-day society.
As for the message of Christianity, As a recovering Catholic, I've seen way too many people act like criminals and thugs for 6 days of the week, but when Sunday comes they're all nice and remorseful (for a couple of hours) then it's back to being a thug. Nope, I want no part of it. To me it's the height of hypocrisy, but again, I'm not lumping all religious folks together. Their are some decent folks around religion still.
mudshark @ 35:
Yeah. I'm supposed to be a Southern Baptist, but you wouldn't know it from my beliefs on science, religion, and politics (i.e. accepting the modern scientific consensus where it contradicts Holy Writ, not accepting the tyrannical SoBap version of God, and completely opposed to Bush Republicanism.)
I find it rather telling that most thugs in Church aren't even that remorseful. They act like a diluted form of thug instead of the concentrated version. And some people are thugs because of religion, and hence see no reason to apologize.
After 08 elections are done we need to turn our eyes and efforts on this little zionist son of a bitch, you just know he has committed a crime somewhere,sometime, that we can throw him into prison for. Too bad it's not against the law to be a greedy, warmongering, coward. CEO
L.A. Confidential @ 7:
and we're at the mall on a diet pill!
doesn't this guy look a lot like senator palpatine??? Darth sidius??
"Just at the present time, when the light which was shed by the fires of war has revealed so many matters formerly hidden in shadow, the awakening of world attention is called "anti-Semitism," and the explanation is given that "after every war the Jew becomes the scapegoat" –- a curious admission which would lead a less self-centered people to inquire, Why?"
--Henry Ford, 1921
Paul Wolfowitz: The Jerusalem Post's "MAN OF THE YEAR"
"What's not in dispute is that Wolfowitz is the principal author of the doctrine of preemption, which framed the war in Iraq and which, when it comes to it, will underpin US action against other rogue states."
Douglas Feith: Pentagon Office Produced 'Alternative' Intelligence on Iraq
Norman Podhoretz: The Case for Bombing Iran
"As an American and as a Jew, I pray with all my heart that he [Bush] will"
Lieberman Begs Petraeus to Invade Iran
Attack Iran the day Iraq war ends, demands Israel
Bill Kristol: Suggests People of Iran Would Embrace U.S. Attack, Triggering Regime Change
Israel To U.S.: Don't Delay Iraq Attack
Stu Bykofsky: "To save America, we need another 9/11"
Michael Ledeen: The Iranian Time Bomb
Joshua Muravchik: Bomb Iran
"Diplomacy is doing nothing to stop the Iranian nuclear threat; a show of force is the only answer"
You'd think they'd at least try to come up with some new lies instead of just recycling the Iraq ones.
General_Rennenkampf @ 8:
Air Strikes my son, clean and surgical. Those jet jockeys are just itchen to wipe out anything standing. If a few citizens get in the way so be it. You don`t have to deal with those pesky embedded journalists either. And if one pops up with "on the spot reporting" like Arness or like those unfortunate scribes at the infamous Hotel Baghdad an F-16 will take care of that pronto.
Should the widespread criminal activity of the Republican Party be used as cause to outlaw it?
Bill Moyers is a national treasure. I don't know how many people (on this site) watch his show, but I've noticed that he actually asks really damn good questions when he interviews people. His work should be a "case study" in journalism.
Oh, one more thing. Screw Connecticut.
FOX is State Sponsored TV @ 13:
That would make sense, Gov policy dictated by drug addled sex tourist RW pundit.
Steve E @ 42:
There's no airplanes available, either. The Iranian nuclear facilities are scattered over 30 locations. We don't have the troops available to attack Iran.
I just can't wait for the US to go ahead and stupidly attack Iran! It'll be sensational, if not, downright orgasmic to see the US get its ass handed to it when it does. Anyone who thinks otherwise is as delusional as Lieberwhore and company!
Attila the Appeaser @ 1:
There are brown people who talk funny under those bombs. They don't count cuz they hate us for our freedoms.
Duh.
/sarcasm
Is that the final step to WWIII?
Such is the era of the Bush Administration that real journalists have to say this.
It's a good thing that Iran doesn't believe in Pre-Emptive strikes! If ever a Country should feel threatened - it's Iran.
Terrible @ 41:
Hey, the Iraq lies worked so well, why mess with success?
Prepare your kids for a future in fatigues.
We need to keep up the pressure on Congress NOT to go to war in Iran.
America has done enough global damage and it's time to stop.
Of course we all KNOW they want to control the oil reserves... your basic capitalistic imperialism using the Amerikkan military might to steal another country's wealth...
But then there's the timing. Not just on the homefront here... but over there: (legitgov.com)
Iran busts CIA terror network 18 May 2008 The Intelligence Ministry on Saturday released details of the detection and dismantling of a terrorist network affiliated to the United States. In a coordinated operation on May 7, Iranian intelligence agents arrested the terrorist network’s members, who were identified in Fars, Khuzestan, Gilan, West Azerbaijan, and Tehran provinces, the Intelligence Ministry announcement said. The group’s plans were devised in the U.S., according to the announcement, which added that they had planned to carry out a number of acts such as bombing scientific, educational, and religious centers, shooting people, and making public places in various cities insecure.
Iran says intercepted terrorist attack on Russian consulate 14 May 2008 Iran has arrested a terrorist group that planned to blow up the Russian consulate building in the town of Rasht near the Caspian Sea, the Iranian intelligence and security minister said on Wednesday. "This terrorist network, with links to the U.S., planned an explosion at the Russian consulate in Rasht, aiming to create a rift between Iran and its neighbors," Qolam Hosein Mohseni-Ejei was quoted by Fars news agency as saying.
Iran says mosque bombers also planned Russia attack 14 May 2008 Iran's intelligence minister said on Wednesday those behind a bomb blast in a mosque that killed 14 people last month also planned to target a Russian consulate in the Islamic state, an Iranian news agency reported. President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad accused the United States, Israel and Britain on Tuesday of being responsible for the blast in the southern city of Shiraz that also wounded 200 people.
Iran holds U.S. responsible for terror attack on diplomats in Baghdad 17 May 2008 Iran has denounced a "terror attack" on its embassy staff in Baghdad and held the United States responsible for violating diplomatic immunity in Iraq, the official IRNA news agency reported on Saturday. Foreign Minister Manouchehr Mottaki made the remarks, while strongly condemning the terror attack, said IRNA.
Iran blames US after diplomats are shot in Baghdad 18 May 2008 Iran angrily blamed the US on Friday after at least three of its diplomats were wounded in a Baghdad shooting, saying the US was encouraging attacks on Iranians in Iraq. The shooting, which may have been by Iraqi soldiers during an argument at a checkpoint, comes amid unprecedented strains between Iran and the Iraqi government, which has long been close to Tehran.
Pentagon Propagandist General Calls for US to Sponsor Terrorism Against Iran By Bill W. 16 May 2008 Last month on Fox News, Ret. Gen. Thomas McInerney, one of the Pentagon’s propaganda team of military analysts exposed by David Barstow in the NYT, openly called for the US to begin committing "tit-for-tat" terrorist attacks by proxy inside Iran: "Here’s what I would suggest to you. Number one, we take the National Council for Resistance to Iran off the terrorist list that the Clinton Administration put them on as well as the Mujahedin-e Khalq at the Camp Ashraf in Iraq. Then I would start a tit-for-tat strategy which I wrote up in the Wall Street Journal a year ago: For every EFP that goes off and kills Americans, two go off in Iran. No questions asked. People don’t have to know how it was done. It's a covert action. They become the most unlucky country in the world..." Media Matters’ exhaustive research into the NYT story shows that McInerney appeared on Fox News 144 times since Jan 2002, and according to this bio from last year’s "Intelligence Summit," McInerney is on the Board of Directors for several companies with defense-related contracts that would seem to benefit from his pro-war propaganda.
Immediately after the invasion of Iraq the right wing radicals who lied our nation into an unnecessary and immoral war started repeating inflammatory rhetoric about Iran. Reuel Marc Gerecht on the Diane Rehm show, John Bolton on NPR's Talk of the Nation, Cheney on Tim Russerts etc. More recently John McCain on Chris Matthews college tour repeated unsubstantiated claims, and then McCain went onto repeat very similar claims on George Stephanapoulous "This Week" The very disturbing part of these unsubstantiated claims about Iran being repeated is how Diane Rehm, Neil Colan, Chris Matthews, Tim Russet, Stephanapoulous allowed these false claims to be repeated.
The MSM did not learn the lesson of the run up to the invasion. I still do not hear them ask the simple question like "where is the hard evidence"
Lieberman is not a hawk. He is an agent for Israel. This asshole cares more about Israel than the US. When is the Anerican people going to realize it.
sending LIARman to the hoosegow with turdblossom karl rove, now THAT has some appeal to it!
Whether LIEberman cares about Israel or not, who cares. What he really cares about is Sikorski helicopters and subs in Groton. He's a warmonger for profit. He's got the rethugnican dance down pat.
I'm sure a lot of CT residents have their head in their hands. They could have had Ned Lamont.
Arrest Bush now, before it's too late.
Lieberman is just pushing for policies that would be positive for Israel, regardless of the impact on the U.S.
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