Recount
By Nicole Belle Monday May 26, 2008 12:30pm
I admit that I'm too cheap and too disinterested in TV in general to have HBO, so I missed Recount (although I'm sure I'll catch up on it when it comes on DVD), but Digby gives her impression of that nervewracking time that inspired the movie. There's one particular passage at the end that all Democrats must heed:
It's pretty to think that this is all ancient history and we can move on. Maybe we can. But just this week, Tim Griffin was hired to run the RNCs Obama opposition research team. And the voter fraud apparatus that Rove and others before him have built, which includes Republican lawyers like Carvin and Griffin, is still up and running. Maybe they are spent and useless now. I hope so.
For those interested in discussing election fraud further, we will be hosting author Mark Crispin Miller on Friday, May 30th for a live chat on his new book, Loser Take All: Election Fraud and The Subversion of Democracy, 2000 - 2008, starting at 11:00 am Pacific/2:00 pm Eastern. It should be an interesting discussion.
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I can't help but wonder if Gore won. Peace on Earth?
I don't have cable, and I'm so sick of what's on TV I've been buyiing and watching 1940 The Lone Ranger with Lee Powell, Tarzan the Tiger with Frank Merrill, Tarzan and the Golden Lion with Jim Sharpe, Dr. Mabuse Der Speiler, The Spider Web and the Spider Returns with Warren Hull, Flash Gordon--Flash Gordon's Trip to Mars--Flash Gordon Conquers the Universe with Buster Crabbe, Lewis Wilson and Robert Lowery versions of Batman, Kirk Alyn in Superman and Superman vs the Atomic Monster, Capt. Marvel, Rocketman, the Shadow, the Green Hornet,
You get the idear.
1 P.D. Says: I can’t help but wonder if Gore won. Peace on Earth?
I doubt it, because even if he prevented 9-11, the terrorists will attack where they can.
30 victims or 3000, it doesn't matter since Americans aren't used to such things.
However, I don't think we'd be occupying Iraq, and threatening Iran, but getting OBL.
P.D. @ 1:
"Warfare" would be limited to Economics.
I prefer that over our current condition though.
The only war worth fighting in my opinion is the U.S.A. taking charge and leading the world out of the oil business.
RECOUNT was mostly great, but one omission really pissed me off.
There was not one mention -- not one -- of the fact that the only reason Bush was ever the presumptive winner is BECAUSE HIS FRICKING FIRST COUSIN WAS THE ELECTION CONSULTANT WHO CALLED IT FOR HIM ON FRICKING FOX NEWS!!!!
Seriously -- can you imagine what would have happened if a first cousin of Gore had called it for Gore on CBS or CNN?
I won't be able to watch unless I have a morphine drip going. Really. Too. Painful.
Just imagine, if you will, that the Democrats had not spent the last eight years of the 20th century demonizing the anti-globalization protestors and that the Izod-clad dipshits making the noise in the Florida recount had had to face off against Black Blocks. Or, in an even more wistful flight of fancy, they had not allowed the right to marginalize labor and there'd been a few thousand wobblies down there.
The only time an election could come that close is when one side's trying to steal it.
For anyone who entertains the idea that we Dems can get even a little bit complacent about 11/08, Recount reminds us once more that-
They Already Have a Tried & True Mechanism in Place.
And a SCOTUS majority aching to let them use it.
P.D. @ 1:
At the least rather then feeding the jaw$ of the MIC we might be actually making some progress towards things that matter.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solar_power_satellite
steve simels @ 5:
Great point.
I loved the movie because it keeps the discussion of what the hell happened fresh in people's minds. I mean the truth is, that if they would've fully recounted the 2-4 counties the Dems pushed for then Gore still would have lossed. The only way he would have won is if the ENTIRE state was recounted and they never really fought for that option as they were focused on four Democrat-leaning counties which in theory, killed their ethical standing out of the gate.
The other part I liked who has Joe Lieberman publicly threw his party under the bus at least for the first time.
Sometimes we have to pause to remember that gov bush was never actually elected President; he did not win the election. Yet there he sits.....
If Al Gore had just won his home state this movie would've never been made.
It was good, but hard to watch. At the end they showed some of the real pictures of the characters. I would have liked to see pictures with the names of the protestors outside the recount areas to identify them and list the jobs they later got in the administration. People like John Bolton. I have read that just about every one of those people who stormed the building got a cushy job out of it. After you watch this, you should watch "Hacking Democracy" also on HBO or netflix. There you see how Gore got NEGATIVE 16,000 votes in one Florida county.
Like you Nicole, I refuse to pay the cable company any more money than I have to for basic cable so I didn't see it either. I sure would have liked to but I'll wait for DVD time.
Since I live down here in Florida, the memories of that time have not faded one bit. It was one of the most frustrating times for Gore supporters. Katherine Harris, being the freak that she is, will always be in my memory as a symbol of all that was so wrong with the process.
If Gore had won he wouldn't have been hellbent to destroy Clinton's counterterrorism office and demote Richard Clarke as it's director within days of the inauguration, as George W. Bush and Condoleezza Rice did.
Without that office in full force and without Richard Clarke as it's director to connect the dots between what the FBI and the CIA had on the 9/11 hijackers during the Summer of Terrorist Threat, 2001, it was extrememly easy for those hijackers to carry on with their plans whle no one was watching, no one cared about what they did and no one was going to give them so much as a second glance at the airport.
I don't know about you, but that would have made a huge difference.
editor @ 12:
Sitting more and more now like a spent, sick scorpion who's been sprayed with RAID. Rot in peace, GWB, and let your would-be clone McBush rot with you in the corner.
Sic Semper Tyrannis (it was ever so with tyrants).
Great movie but painful to watch at points. Katherine the Terrible in deed.
It's Me @ 17:
So the question is, why did the new administration choose to ignore what Clark was telling them? Did they think his information wasn't credible? If so, why?
I just heard that HBO is suspending re runs of Recount as a result of Supreme Court pressure. Does anyone know if this is true?
Eight years of beating a dead horse.
cathy hare @ 21:
I think that was a joke started by someone.
I have HBO...but zero interest in watching this. Why the hell would I want to relive a moment that buried this country??? Why replay the moment when Chimpy was handed the keys to the US???
These past eight years have been a slow, embarrassing nightmare. I'm so ready to move on...and put this disaster behind me.
No interest in torturing myself with that crap.
Two things I did see this weekend. One was a photo of bush wearing a Roaring Thunder black leather vest and hat. He looked as ridiculous as a human being can look.
The other was Hillary drinking a beer and dancing in Puerto Rico. I'll keep my mouth shut about who she reminded me of with her dancing.
the outrageous stuff that the movie left out in order to seem more fair and ballanced...
a scene (verified) where katherine harris walks into the luxury booth at seminole stadium, where jeb and other repug operatives are sitting and states that she would love to be riding on a horse with a seminole flag in one hand and the certification of the election for bush in the other to the cheers of the entire crowd
the scene where justice oconner is watching the returns with gore winning and exlaims "this is terrible"
a scene noting that scalias two sons and thomas' wife all worked for the bush team and both should have recused themselves (as should have oconner)
the film does show the huge mistakes the gore team made (i dont care what christopher now says, he never shouldve headed the team...the man was a weak sec of state and he was weak in this case too....you cant fight as gentleman when the other team wants a cage match)
if you want to watch the real machinations of what occured leading up to the election and what caused such turmoil during, i suggest you find the doc "unprecedented"
i will say this....laura dern deserves an emmy nom for her portrayal of the absolute batshit katherine harris....it is spot on, and she had to have sat under the makeup chair for hours making herself look so ugly....and there isnt a better actor around than kevin spacey (one reviewer gave him a bad review because of his hairline...stupid fuck....)
I "watched" HBO's Recount, but the opening of wounds that have not healed yet was very painful. I had to switch to Anthony Bourdain's food antics every few minutes to fan down the flames of my anger and disgust.
It was not so much that the Dems lost a balanced fight, as that the Repubs had their hands on all the levers of power and used them ruthlessly to help Bush win in Florida. Gore and Warren Christopher do come off in the movie as weenies who were not willing to get their hands dirty fighting the dirtiest team the Repubs put together. The actor who played Baker did a great job of a political operative who was willing to do evil for some "greater good".
I will try to watch it in full one of these days when my phychic wounds heal over a bit more. If the Repubs win another election by cheating and lying the way they did the last two, I will carry those wounds to my death bed...
pissed off patricia @ 25:
Elaine from Seinfeld?
steve simels @ 5:
i still dont understand the brouhaha over this
all of the other networks were calling it for gore....so late that night, fox calls it for bush and the other networks follow suit
they all shouldve called it too close to call
what was worse, is that gore used the news reports as his reason for making the concession call....why didnt he have his aides check and recheck the numbers to see the closeness of election....christ, it seemed that he just really didnt want to win...and this was noted in the film, when spacey notes that now it seemed he regained the fire in his belly
look...the fix was in in florida the minute the justice dept didnt toss harris and jeb in prison for illegally purging thousands off the voting rolls
in 2000 we witnessed the reality of our great state of democracy...that it is one hair away from being a bannana republic
Rusty Shackleford @ 28:
Ummm, nope.
I watched with a group of fellow liberals and a lot of wine. It was traumatizing. I think we all have PTSD from that election. My friend kept swearing and I kept muttering, "We should have rioted in the streets.... we should have rioted..."
I can’t help but wonder if Gore won. Peace on Earth?
short answer is no but it would be a hell of alot more peaceful.
25 pissed off patricia Says: Two things I did see this weekend. One was a photo of bush wearing a Roaring Thunder black leather vest and hat. He looked as ridiculous as a human being can look.
The other was Hillary drinking a beer and dancing in Puerto Rico. I’ll keep my mouth shut about who she reminded me of with her dancing.
I saw that too, but Barack Obama's dancing was even worse in New Mexico.
Hey, any mention of the crooked "felon" voter purge? Will probably check it out on Netflix when my stomach is stronger.
The Truth Hurts @ 24:
Those who ignore history
Are doomed to repeat it.
miss_kitty @ 6:
I'll guess I'll wait until Wednesday which is morphine-drip night at StirFrys.
Two positive things. One there is no bush living in our governor's mansion down here and Katerine Harris is out there doing whatever she does but she has no authority in our state now.
Once you truly understand that the US of A is NOT a real Democracy, you'll
definitely sleep better.
wagonjak @ 27:
tom wilkinson...this man is never bad in any role....the scene that spells out why baker (whom i sure now regrets his overall role in the fiasco) did what he did is towards the end, when he describes how gw the first basically saved his life by putting him on his senatorial campaign team
The Truth Hurts @ 24:
you must watch it....you must never forget
and you must know why a dem has to be prez....we can have no more criminals placed on the scotus
scalia may be the most evil man in america
wagonjak @ 27:
The really sad part is, the conservatives don't care how much damage they did to the country in 2000. For them it was only about winning. They pursued it so blindly that they forced the rational half of the country to hate them - and then had the gall to whine about partisanship.
Conservatives don't give a rat's ass about their fellow citizens, or having a unified nation. It's all about power and money. That's all they care about. 2000 made that very clear.
pissed off patricia @ 20:
dont you remember? right out of the gate, these people were talking about reinstituting the star wars program
they never cared about national security, only reinstating the cold war military industrial
complex
its why i laff at the truthers who believe that bush not only knew, but planned the whole thing
did he want to go into iraq? sure...but he wanted more to make sure that his pals at halliburton got large contracts to create weaponry that did absolutely nothing
RppPolyp @ 34:
Thats always been my final take on Florida 2000. The fact that 50 thousand mostly black , mosty Dem voters were denied the opportunity to vote period. This op was run by Bushes brother Jeb and Kathy Harris. Was generally disgusting that the House never backed up the black caucases on the issue too. I'm sure there would haven been no recount if these folks had been assured their right to vote. BTW.. Jebs list of so called "felons" had an error rate of nearly 95%. Is there no such thing as "conflict of interest " in USA anymore ?
The movie shows in great detail how the chad-ridden cards worked and how stupidly the "butterfly" ballot was designed (and makes sure we know it was designed by a democratic nit wit). It's fast-paced and more satiric than anything. I found myself laughing not only at the obvious drag-queen persona that was Katherine Harris but also at the outrageous way the repubs are depicted gaming the system, as it cuts from one side to the other. I would have preferred that they spend more time on the Supreme Court, instead of having lookalikes recite their written briefs. It really doesn't condemn them nearly enough for their outrageous co-opting of our democracy. But with them one-upping the democratically weighted Florida Supreme Court, it illustrates vividly how our system is fatally flawed by having judges from on party or another. All judges MUST be above politics, otherwise this sort of thing will continue to occur.
RppPolyp @ 34:
it gets a very brief mention...way too brief
but remember, the gore campaign didnt make a big issue out of it either...and it shouldve
the gore campaign initially wanted to play within the rules....but when the rules are crooked, you cant win
they shouldve immediatly filed suit to suspend the faux deadline...they shouldve asked for an entire state recount, and been willing to bring every county to court
they shouldve demanded that prior to the supremes even hearing the case, that both scalia and thomas recuse themselves....
they shouldve done alot of things that they didnt do
What really got to me was when the Supreme Court issued it's final ruling and noted at the end of their decision that the court's decision regarding the Florida recount case applies only to that case, in that point in time. In other words they made an exception, under some "special" circumstances. Scalia was right when he said this year, "it's history, get over it".
Orangutan. @ 11:
The other thing that I would have liked to have seen.. is the real footage of the people banging on the election recount doors showing our past UN Ambassador John Bolton being one of the door bangers.
The judicial coup this cycle
They probably won't have a close election to work with. If they did, they would be able to get their Federalist Society apparatchiks on the courts to just hand McCain the election, using any number of assorted equal protection rationales. Our non-system of federal elections, whereby the details are left to 50 different states, is a lawsuit waiting to happen once you let in the idea that voters in this country are entitled to a voting process that is even comparable, much less equal to voters elsewhere in the country. But they would need a close election for outright theft to go over, and they aren't likely to have that luxury this year.
But even in a not-at-all-close election, they can still get their friends in the courts to intervene, on the same equal protection grounds, to invalidate the election. This is obviously not as useful as directing the result towards their candidate, but could be almost as good. If they can browbeat the 111th Congress away from confronting the courts and declaring the Electoral Votes that (presumably) our candidate would have won a majority of, to be valid, which is the right and duty of the Congress and not the courts, the only way to get a new president would be via the 20th Amendment, which allows for Congress to choose a temporary president if one hasn't qualified as having won the election in time to assume office. The key benefit for their side is that Dubya would have a veto over their choice. No doubt Dubya would insist on Lieberman as a "compromise", "centrist", acting president.
Was there a character in the movie who played the part of Teresa LaPore? If so, did the character look like she applied eyeliner with a black Magic Marker?
Ms LaPore was responsible for the infamous butterfly ballots.
Hard to compress 36 days into 2 hours, but I thought they did a good job with all of the aspects of the controversy. It brought back a flood of memories and anguish.
I saw it last night. It's very well done - hats off to Spacey, Sidney Pollack (RIP) and all involved. The Republicans clearly come off as thugs who, in a coordinated fashion, stole the election and spat on democracy. From Baker on down, all the players roles are clearly delineated. Warren Christopher is upset with his portrayal (as he should be!). I'm glad this was made. It's just another important document of what really happened and how we have suffered for 8 long years because of it.
P.S It can happen again.
In short, that awful time not so very long ago made me ashamed to be an American.
It was such a debacle and I remember at the time contemplating how our reputation in the world had to be severely suffering from the fallout. Quite honestly, we looked impotent and confused, not exactly a great example to provide to the rest of the Free World.
In retrospect, I didn't think we could look much worse in the world community than we did then, nearly eight years ago and a half years ago.
Boy, was I ever wrong.
theWalrus @ 51:
should christopher be upset because the portrayal was not true, or because he was such a wimp that he should be ashamed of himself
Was there a character in the movie who played the part of Teresa LaPore? If so, did the character look like she applied eyeliner with a black Magic Marker?
Ms LaPore was responsible for the infamous butterfly ballots.
Yes, Jayne Atkinson played LaPore. She was one of the few characters (other than Gore) that I actually felt sorry for (for a minute, at least..). The casting, in general, was top notch. Bob Balaban as Ben Ginsburg was particularly creepy.
should christopher be upset because the portrayal was not true, or because he was such a wimp that he should be ashamed of himself
The latter, although he's claiming the former, of course. His first encounter with Baker should have alerted him to the boxing match ahead. He never wanted to put on the gloves, thinking it was ignoble of him. Poor sap. Look what it cost.
uncle joe hussein mccarthy @ 26:
This movie should be required viewing for everyone who values this site. More than rehashing history, it is a clear picture of how each party fought in the past and will fight in the upcoming general election. It was infuriating, it was crushing to re-live, but we can't go into any more general elections with the sunny view that every vote is equal and every vote counts. That is only true when we the voters fight for that reality.
Great movie, horrible truths.
They forgot that maker of the punch card maker change the specs and was using thinner paper.
pissed off patricia @ 30:
Whoops I inserted that wrong
I have never forgotten the reason the Bush imbecile and the Cheeeeeeeney traitor are occupying the White House.
Nor do I forget Nancy Pelosi and her impeachment "off the table" BS, which has enabled criminality. The elected representatives have done nothing to stop the crimes of this administration and to prevent theft of elections in the future.
republicans don't win elections, they take them. And Democrats seem to sanction the thievery/criminality.
ColKilgore@43: You have pretty well nailed the one, most important, vote factor
that spelled defeat for Gore in 2000; being those individuals who were purged from
the voting roles because their last name was "similiar" to a name of a convicted
felon(who are naturally disqualified from voting). As I recall, the actual number of
eligible voters who were culled due to "similiar" last names was about 8,000. But
the BIGGER issue is that many, many of those last names were from a convicted
felon list from the STATE OF TEXAS...not even residents of Florida.
That action, approved by K. Harris and Jeb. bush, caused, in my humble opinon,
the disenfranchings of many black voters who should have been permitted to vote.
Quisling McLieberman showed his true colors in that bit of history as well. It's as if he is consciously working against the party.
Say what you will about him, he makes a hell of a fifth columnist.
Laura Dern as Katherine Harris was Emmy worthy!
If this is "...ancient history and we can move on," our democracy is forfeit. What a ridiculous notion that is!
Since the late '90s Republicans have stolen one election after another. Two presidential elections, and a number of Congressional and gubernatiorial elections as well. How can that be "ancient history?" Does anyone think they'll stop now, having gotten away with so much? Does anyone believe the Republicans said to themselves, "Well, we got away with it. Let's play it straight from now on."??????
It's time Crooks and Liars lived up to its name, and recognized that the Republican party is essentially a criminal enterprise. Ancienty history, indeed.
Actually, I thought about watching that on HBO... But the truth is, I'm, still way too pissed about it all to want to sit thru a dramatization of it at this point... I opted for the somewhat weak remake of Andromeda Strain instead... It was OK, not great, but OK... I like Ben Bratts' work and some of those other actors in it have done some good things in the past.... Hey, it was just mindless entertainment, and really, PBS and certain other news reporting aside, that's mostly what T.V. is all about anyway...pull the plug temporarily on reality mindless type entertainment....JD
It was an excellent film revealing the inherent flaws in our process for elections. Excellent. It showed there are way too many loopholes that can leave the "winning" up to personal preference, rather than public service.
Laura Dern was perfect. You really should see it .
If you're still pissed that Bush "won" the election, see a little justice right here when we put him on trial for war crimes...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NXxTooNIsBc
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yN2aiPlPFWw&feature=related
The stealing came down well before the election. You can get mucho info at www.gregpalast.com You can learn about Atlanta based Choicepoint in their treasonist role and many other facts that go well beyond a "recount". Fascism has arrived folks; now what are you going to do about it? Watch HBO?
I will say it until I'm blue in the face: 2000's election was STOLEN. And we're paying the consequences, now and in the future. The electoral college is a joke.
This year, let's not even count FL and MI.
Bud @ 35:
I don't need a cable TV program to remind me of the mess this country is in. Who's the target for this? Liberals who are love to torture themselves? Must be, because no GOPer is going to watch this "elitist, lefty propaganda."
Seems like a whole lotta preaching to the choir.
I got too angry and depressed watching it, and just couldn't finish. I'm just not "over it" as Scalia so nicely put it. It felt like a dagger in the heart of our democracy, and I'm afraid they've already figured out how to steal the 08 election. I still don't think the Dems have figured out that Rethugs go for the jugular. Still seems like they try to play nice and get burned every time. It was kind of interesting how Lieberman screwed the Dems even back then.
This movie puts together a series of events that many murkins cannot fathom even looking back at it. It should be required viewing so we are prepared for them in November.
because no GOPer is going to watch this “elitist, lefty propaganda.”
Actually, some Republicans have given the movie positive reviews, and have held private screenings of it.
(Bush legal advisers James Baker and Benjamin Ginsberg have largely given the film good reviews; Baker even hosted his own screening of it.)
the 08 elections allready in the bag for mccain! you aint seen nothing yet! in four yrs from now cnn will have how the 08 election was stoled, its going to be called recount 2!
from TP:
Kira Says: Katy, here’s a great article regarding the movie RECOUNT you & I watched last night.
http://www.opednews.com/articles/opedne_barbara__080526_re_recount_3a_re...
Re Recount: Remiss! - by Barbara Bellows-TerraNova
MUST READ!
sorry i ment hbo! but you get the picture , the other tittles in your face 2
McCain will be the next President, because the Rothchilds are backing him.
but dont let it worry you folks, by the 012 elections most of you will be used for food anyway!
Soyent tyree? Soyent you and me? Soyent liberal libertines??? Gee tyree, don'tcha think those assholes might be afraid to spoon us down or even use us for fertilizer??? We might contaminate them with compassion or some other kind of liberal germs? Or maybe just common sense??? Jus wonderin sailor.....That last about common sense?.. That might be too much to hope for I guess................JD
I saw it but came away with mixed feelings. It does a major disservice by not digging deep enough. The narrative is limited to highly motivated if not slightly campy republicans versus naive and slightly effete dems. BS, the republicans are scum sucking thugs fucking ready to kill democracy for their corporate sponsors. The real key here is the purge lists and other voter suppression tactics masterminded by turd blossom Rove. These tactics were also used to steal 2004 and are being used now for 2008. Greg Palast has written extensively about this. The current investigation into Rove and his part in firings of the attorney generals point to Rove using the DOJ to do his dirty work and wipe out as many votes by black, latino and other ethnic groups as possible before the 08 election. I can only think that executives at Time Warner stepped in and curtailed the scope of this movie. Fucking pisses me off.
Perhaps election tampering should be made a capital crime. Would that fix it?
Would failing to investigate election tampering counting as colluding with election tampering -- also in itself being a capital crime -- would that get our justice system off its ass to look into the problem?
Would being the beneficiary of a tampered election equaling tampering with the election help?
I can think of a lot of things that would get people's attention about the seriousness of fucking with elections.
jack damage , its been said by chefs for the rich , that we taste like chicken , mmmm good!
I saw the movie on OnDemand. Personally I thought that as a movie it was rather lame. They spent no time building up tension and the constant flipping around between Democrat and Republican mechanizations reminded me of channel surfing. Even having someone as talented as Kevin Spacey in it couldn't make the movie entertaining. But I don't think it was supposed to be entertaining. Instead it came off more like someone picking a scab off of a wound just for the blood. It did shine a light on something that really needed to be illuminated. People need to remember this election and remember it well because it illustrate the fact that neither party really gives a shit about US. The Democrats only wanted recounts in the most liberal districts in Florida, rather than statewide and the Republicans didn't want anyone who voted for a Democrat to count in the slightest.
Neither party really deserves our support because they're both concerned only with their own aggrandizement. I'm of the mind that the entirety of Congress should be booted out of office and replaced and that the President and Vice President should be given adjoining cells in Federal Prison after their impeachment. During the Bush administration, the Republicans were definitively the party of corruption, lies and torture with Bush goostepping in the lead. But the damned Democrats sat by and let it happen without raising much of a fuss. Which leads me to wonder if by some stretch of the imagination I cut some low level Bush aid off in traffic and end up in Gitmo, are the Democrats going to be the ones to fight for my right to habeas corpus? Somehow I doubt it.
They could be out there banging on doors against telecomm immunity right now, but they're not. Unfortunately one party is the lesser of two evils and they will be the recipient of my vote. Obama at least has a decent message. Whether or not he can deliver is another story. If it comes down to Clinton Vs McCain, I'll either vote against McCain or vote For Ron Paul. But McCain won't be getting my vote and I won't vote FOR Clinton.
The other thing that struck me was that, I knew Katherine Harris was a train wreck but Laura Dern's makeup look like it was applied with a snow blower. Good googly moogly. It must have taken a jackhammer to get it off.
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