John Kerry will probably accept Bush's apology
By Steve Benen Monday Jul 28, 2008 7:20pmBack in 2004, Bush told a Florida audience, “[John] Kerry said, and I quote, ‘The war on terror is far less of a military operation and far more of an intelligence-gathering law enforcement operation.’ (Audience boos.) I disagree…. After the chaos and carnage of September the 11th, it is not enough to serve our enemies with legal papers. With those attacks, the terrorists and supporters declared war on the United States of America — and war is what they got. (Audience applauds.)”
Bush, pleased with himself and the reaction, repeated the attack again and again and again. The point was obvious — paint an image in which Bush battles terrorists with the most powerful military in the world, while Kerry fights al Qaeda with cops and lawyers.
Four years later, McCain is picking up where Bush left off. As it turns out, Bush and McCain are clearly wrong.
The United States can defeat al-Qaida if it relies less on force and more on policing and intelligence to root out the terror group’s leaders, a new study contends.
“Keep in mind that terrorist groups are not eradicated overnight,” said the study by the federally funded Rand research center, an organization that counsels the Pentagon.
Its report said that the use of military force by the United States or other countries should be reserved for quelling large, well-armed and well-organized insurgencies, and that American officials should stop using the term “war on terror” and replace it with “counterterrorism.”
Seth Jones, the lead author of the study and a Rand political scientist, told Reuters, “Terrorists should be perceived and described as criminals, not holy warriors, and our analysis suggests there is no battlefield solution to terrorism. The United States has the necessary instruments to defeat al-Qaida, it just needs to shift its strategy.”
Ya don’t say.
In a sensible political environment, the Rand report’s conclusion would be obvious and beyond question. Indeed, I thought we’d already resolved this.
A terrorist plot was disrupted in Germany last fall thanks to the combined efforts of intelligence gathering and law-enforcement operations. The alleged plot at JFK airport was discovered after the combined efforts of intelligence gathering and law-enforcement operations. The alleged plot at Fort Dix was discovered after the combined efforts of intelligence gathering and law-enforcement operations. The alleged British hijacking plot was discovered after the combined efforts of intelligence gathering and law-enforcement operations. The list goes on and on.
We catch the bad guys, prevent terrorism, and save lives through these combined efforts. Why anyone would find this controversial is a mystery to me. Why John McCain continues to embrace such a flawed counter-terrorism strategy is even more odd.
Reuters added:
Based on an analysis of 648 terrorist groups that existed between 1968 and 2006, the report concluded that a transition to the political process is the most common way such groups end. But the process, found in 43 percent cases examined, is unlikely with al-Qaida, which has a broad, sweeping agenda, the report said.
The second most common way that terrorist groups end, seen in about 40 percent of the cases, is through police and intelligence services apprehending or killing key leaders, Jones said. Police are particularly effective because their permanent presence in cities helps them gather information, he said.
By contrast, the report said, military force was effective in only 7 percent of the cases.
Jones, in an interview, said, “Even where we found some success against al-Qaida, in Pakistan and Iraq, the military played a background or surrogate role. The bulk of the action was taken by intelligence, police and, in some cases, local forces.”
“We are not saying the military should not play a role,” he said. “But unless you are talking about large insurgencies, military force should not be the tip of the spear.”
If Bush, Cheney, McCain, and the entire Republican establishment is prepared to apologize, I’m sure the rest of us would appreciate it.
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Off to the Hague!
Excellent point. Now if only John Kerry would pass on this logical way to fight the terrorists to Barack Obama, who believes that the way to fight terrorism in Afghanistan is to send in two brigades [close to 10,000 troops] into that country, a militaristic move that will never win the hearts and minds of the Afghan people.
This was simply the Bush fans' insight that using your brain is gay and surrender-y and that real tough men Americans don't have to like 'think' about stuff or 'know' things, just go somewhere and blow something or other up, which was good enough for George Washington and it's good enough for us and if we don't like it why don't we go to some other damn country or something...
I believe the first attack on the World Trade Center was settled as a crime. Why not the second? Or was the fact that the PNAC gang had to have "another Pearl Harbor" so that we might have perpetual war for perpetual peace.
this is what admiral fallon was saying in his interview with charlie rose last night
No fair! The important point to be made here is that the Carlyle Group has been rakin' in the dough. We...must...be...at...war. Also we must have the largest privitised prison population with the most non-violent criminals. We're #1!!!!!!!
What bush, rove, and company have done the last seven years is beyond apology.
These people feel no remorse for anything.
i fail to see why a full court press wouldn't work. a nice hellfire right up osama's bottom in pakistan would suit me just fine, thank you very much.
Now I'm the very first to realize that anything I say is utterly without consequence, but that's the very thing I've said all along.
9/11 was a crime. Make it an act of war and you elevate the perpetrators to a status of legitimacy.
As a military target, the attackers were well within legitimate boundaries attacking financial and military infra-structure. If Bin Laden had anything to do with it then you also elevate him to a world leader.
I personally still have no idea who was behind it, but damn I feel vindicated.
I think I'll go look up some of the dumb ass yahoos I spent so much time arguing with back then.
I believe, in the years to come, it will be proven that George Walker Bush was in league
with Osama Bin Laden right from the get-go.
think about it: this would explain everything we've seen happen in the past 7 1/2 years.
it would seem obvious they both have the EXACT SAME GOAL in mind.
OK, maybe I'm a nut - but I'd rather be CRAZY than a lapel-flag Republican these days!!
benen, this is a really good post.
good to see amato rolling up his sleeves a bit today, as well...
Reality still has that damn liberal bias.
If there were no enemy, there would be no reason to wager the future of the nation on a massive war machine.
Sorry, but the fuckers who currently call themselves the leaders of the free world know only bullying to get what they want. Everything else is beyond their understanding.
How many of the high profile successes are TLA agent provacateur infiltration of nutter groups who are all mouth and no trousers,
until the outsider arrives bearing gifts...
But what would happen to war profiteering? Our poor war profiteers must get theirs.
Did I mention our war profiteers?
If Obama said the exact same thing today, McCain and the MSM would jump all over him. Obama predicted what would happen if the United States invaded Iraq, and he's generally on the money when it comes to Afghanistan, at least by Washington establishment standards. Not to mention he's also been proven right on Iran.
Wow, It's hard to believe it's been four years since Kerry lost. I can't help to think what our country would look like today if Kerry won, or better yet, if Gore won (He did, but I won't go there.) Damn, what a waste of 8 years with this disasterous President.
The WSJ had an interesting side-piece that is related to this. We spend about $75,000,000,000 on homeland security measures to save about 105 lives per year.
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB121720170185288445.html?mod=googlenews_wsj
Loonie @ 14:
but we know how to get into their heads a bit.
we're just commenters; we're like bleacher bums.
but occasionally bleacher bums get opposing outfielders to drop routine fly balls.
The real tragedy here is that while the military has bigfooted the limelight, and the resources, in the so-called "war on terror", law enforcement at all levels, who are the only people who provided any actual aid to the public on 9/11, got the short end. I know a lot of people aren't going to agree with this, but reassigning even a few thousand FBI agents to anti-terror work is really a pathetic response to the most serious public safety challenge we've ever faced as a nation. While the creation of the Homeland Security Department had the potential for giving us a first rate domestic security organization, its obvious by now that a combination of the usual Washington influence pedaling and sheer incompetence of the folks in charge have made that an impossibility -- and a complete waste of money. Instead of sending 600,000 troops to Iraq we should have increased the ranks of the FBI by a factor of 10 and funded similar increases in law enforcement agencies servicing the major population centers most at risk. As it stands now our borders may be even more porous than they were before the attacks, and screening in airports and our ports is a complete joke.
Roll out the police state. Big Brother will protect us.
Phil @ 21:
when the charges against stevens came out today i nearly cried w/ pride for my FBI.
El Cid @ 3:
Yep. The level of political discourse in this country has been lowered to completely idiotic levels. I had an idea when I listened to repug supporters call in to C-Span during the '04 election cycle. You should've heard these morons. Not one of them had 2 brain cells to rub together.
Chimpy has no reason to apologize. All the idiotic rhetoric worked. Aside from destroying Social Security, he got his war and everything he wanted and he's leaving the country with a record deficit to compound the damage he's already wrought upon us.
It's not like we have a real opposition party holding Chimpy accountable for any malfeasances committed by his administration anyway. If so why should McFraud campaign any differently if it means getting elected? The nation's full of idiots.
Any policy that doesn't support the military industrial complex will never be implemented. It doesn't matter that that policy may be logical or effective. The finial question is does it support the status quo? If it doesn't, then don't count on a rational policy.
The "global struggle against Islamic extremists" should never be unilateral, it affects many countries and Kerry is right and always will be right about it being a law enforcement matter. Bush's war crime on terror was always for personal gain in the name of national security. He is the worst president ever and a total disgrace. May he receive swift justice.
Notice how nobody is talking about the Church shooting with the whack job who was a reader of Billo's and Hannity's literature? Does our press have amnesia?
Jo @ 4:
Shh. All of this is merely coincidence, like when I carry a piece of paper with the word "lettuce" written on it to the grocery store, and end up purchasing lettuce. No sane person could draw a connection there.
"John Kerry will probably accept Bush’s apology"
For what? Stealing the election and fucking up the country?
Erroll @ 2:
You are never going to "win the hearts and minds" of Afghans, you are there, and then you leave, what happens in between, is just variations on previous violence, and drug dealing.
Kerry may accept Bush apology,but I will never because it`s another in a long series of lies that these criminals use to keep the Goddamn war going.It was always about criminality.9/11 was about criminality.There is no "war on terror," just as there is no "war on drugs." These are tactics to keep the American people from uniting to successfully deal with these issues.Quite successful,I might add,but criminal in and of themselves.Daemon Runyon(sp?) was right when he said,"There`s a sucker born every minute."This is the American Heritage.
Pat Riot @ 10:
I am shocked at your statement.
OK .
The Bin Laden Family is incredably rich and has ties with the Bush Family.Picky picky.
And Moma Bin Laden , apparently, flew to Afghanistan to attend one of Osama's sons wedding. Nothing wrong with that . She flew in a private jet through restricted air space or even a war zone. These things haopen.
.
And Osama had Kidney problems and Moma bin Laden will let her son live in destitute conditions in Pakistan. Trust me ,Osama did not die from kidney failure.
And Osama escaped US Special forces in the Bora Bora Mountains. Right . So the Pentagon has some explaining to do.
And a lot of Saudi's flew out of the US after 9/11, before formal restrictions of travel were lifted. OK the FBI asked a few questions, but no one was retained???
Picky , picky.
Aw, fuck the both of 'em.
miss_kitty @ 33:
: )
Marcinema @ 30:
The invasion of Afghanistan was illegal because no nation can use military force except in self-defense or when authorized by the Security Council of the United Nations. After the 9/11 attacks, the Council passed two resolutions, neither of which authorized the use of military force in Afghanistan. The invasion of Afghanistan was not a legitimate self-defense under Article 51 of the Charter because the attacks on Sept. 11 were criminal attacks, not "armed attacks" by another country.
Obama's proposal to send in two more brigades into Afghanistan [by a "Peace Candidate", no less] will only exacerbate the situation in that beleaguered country, proving that Obama is just as militaristic and imperialistic as McCain and Bush.
Erroll @ 2:
its ok baracks going to send extra body bags! for both sides!
"The United States has the necessary instruments to defeat al-Qaida, it just needs to shift its strategy.”
Which is basically what a retired FBI counterrorism officer told me in a seminar on terrorism back in 2005. Terrorism is caused by social pressures - you don't fight a social ill by military might.
Alice X - trolling for perfection (Chomsky Nader) - status quObama - change you can pretend in - @ 22:
Not the "police" state. The National Security State. It's SOOOO much more than just cops, nowadays. It's obsessive, eternal surveillance. It's corporatization of all human interactions, all records, all everything, proprietarily. It's dependence upon the State/military for employment. It's the eternal, well-funded assault on the Constitution.
Am I wrong about this?
Simply stated, Obama wants to pull troops OUT of Iraq...
But put MORE troops in Afghanistan?
yes or no, please?
woody, tokin librul @ 39:
Ummmmmmm, Yup.
The numbers aren't clear yet, but thats the gist of it.
mudshark @ 40:
Umh...thanks. I'm gonna sell everything I own, convert it to gold, go to Macao, find a whorehouse/opium den and die there, in a coupla years...
Fear! Many/most Americans fear intellectuals. They would rather have a beer with an ex-cheerleader than trust their country to someone who will deal with complex national and international affairs. Smart people have lost the glow they once had and we are the worse for it. Check out Japan, China and Europe to see if they value intelligence.
Of course, our smart guys are the business execs who are getting richer and richer.
woody, tokin librul @ 41:
Don't sell the farm yet woody. I think Obama's trying to get a more multinational thing going.
Although you might have a good time doing it. Try to leave out the dying part, enjoy yourself for awhile first. Like 30-50 years or so.
When is John Kerry going to apologize for this statement?
"and there is no reason, Bob, that young American soldiers need to be going into the homes of Iraqis in the dead of night, terrorizing kids and children, you know, women,"
rb @ 44:
Why should he need to apologize? He was right.
woody, tokin librul @ 39:
You're right, that's Obama's postion. They call it redeployment, or what it really is, stubborn status quo militarism.
Really, he was right. You have knowledge of American soldiers terrorrizing women and children in their homes at night. Tell me more.
mudshark @ 45:
woody, tokin librul @ 39:
woody, tokin librul @ 39:
yes , we need that pipeline and more dope for the cia!
youngblood @ 46:
Not that I agree with him wholeheartedly, but I see why Obama wants to do that. Instead of making this whole military scenario an abject failure, he would like to actually capture Osama Bin Laden, who most people believe is still operating his main forces in or near Afghanistan. If he doesn't appeal to at least some form of decisive action (a.k.a. what stupid people call 'war' to make themselves feel better), no one near the old Bush paradigm will vote for him. Sad. And even if he wins, all those same people in the Bushie paradigm will hate on him in the polls for doing 'nothing', as is commonly said of Democrats. The battle is not going to be over just because a Democrat gets elected. War is not so simple, even if the reasons for going into it are.
I don't think that makes him as complicit in the whole military might is right mentality, that's just farcical nonsense. That line of thinking will just get the problems of the Bush administration dumped onto him more easily when he is elected, and no good shall come of it. I am all for the Green Peace Hippie approach, it is my favorite mantra. But a smart man that must make a sacrifice in order to do good in the whole scheme of things will inevitably choose something he will never like, but in the end must do. If his presidency is crippled by public opinion at the very onset of his term, then the Democrats will get NOTHING done to reverse the evils carried out by the republicans.
rb @ 47:
You obviously don't keep up with current events. This has been hashed out so many times now. I'm not going to educate you.
I'll leave it up to other people. Your boring.
Wise_Fool @ 49:
fucking excuses !
No, it's not just an excuse. it is the knowledge that just because a Democrat is elected doesn't mean 100% of the nation will think like YOU do. The ideology was the dominant paradigm in this country, and it would be arrogant beyond any sense of wisdom to believe that it will just go away because you have a magic wand, and Bush doesn't.
By all means, try to operate in a vacuum where no one's opinions matter but your own, see how far it gets you... it only got Bush so far, after all... but you're so much better than everyone else who was fooled by his lies right? you wouldn't make the same mistakes with nearly absolute power in the most powerful nation in the world, would you?
Wise_Fool @ 52:
join up!
Nope. I never believed in the war to begin with, and I already said I don't agree with him wholeheartedly. I don't have what it takes to rule the country, and I don't have the guts to die for someone else lies. That's what make our military men more noble than any of us can put onto paper or blog. I also said I didn't like the idea, but perhaps it must be done from Obama's perspective. So just because you can't go bitching at Obama don't go throwing your angst on me to feel better about mindless reactionism. and throwing that in someone's face still doesn't make you any more right.
Wise_Fool @ 54:
i never believed one fucking lie about iraq or afganistan but if i was willing to let some asshole take me into a war it wouldnt be bush mccain clinton or obama!
mudshark @ 50:
I'm boring, I agree. But you think if you make unfounded statements enough that they become true. Very common on the far left and far right. There is no evidence that soldiers have done what Kerry said.
so, your viable alternative is, WHOM, then, swampfox? The toothfairy? We only have so many viable options here, and some of us are trying to find solutions and to try to understand the incalculable pain of hard decisions that our new leaders will have to make, not bitch about everything that is less than perfect just for ego stroking.
Wise_Fool @ 57:
get our ass back where we belong , and that aint afganistan!
mudshark @ 50:
Ok, I feel sorry for you. So I went looking for some proof.
Joshua Key, 28, was a poor, uneducated Oklahoma country boy who saw the U.S. army and its promised benefits -- from free health care to career training -- as the ticket to a better life. In 2002, not yet 24 but already married and the father of two , Key enlisted. He says his recruiting officer promised he'd never be deployed abroad, but a year later he was in Iraq.
Only 24 hours after arriving, as Key recounts in The Deserter's Tale (Anansi), he experienced his first doubts about what he and his fellow soldiers were doing there:
Then we dashed around to the side of the house so we wouldn't blow ourselves up. You'd be fried meat if you were anywhere near the explosion. I set off the blast, and then the six of us charged in. Jones went first -- that skinny, red-haired Ohio boy was always hot to trot. With Jones leading the way we burst into the house, armed to the hilt. Kevlar helmets, flak jackets, machine guns, combat boots, the whole nine yards.
I'd never been inside an Iraqi's house before.
In this room with the couches we found two children, a teenager, and a woman. We also found two young men in the house. One looked like a teenager and the other was perhaps in his early 20s -- brothers.
We hollered and cussed. I spat dip on the floor and screamed along with the other soldiers at the top of my lungs. I knew they didn't understand, but I hollered anyway.
"Get down," I shouted. "Get the f--k down. Shut the f--k up."
They didn't know what "get down" meant, so we knocked the two brothers to the floor, face down.
We put our knees on their backs, pulled their hands behind them, and faster than you can bat an eye we zipcuffed them.
I don't know what it was called, and I don't know where it was. All I know is that we sent away every man -- pretty well every male over five feet tall -- that we found in our house raids, and I never saw one of them return to the neighbourhoods we patrolled regularly.
I hadn't been in Iraq more than 24 hours and already I was having strange feelings.
First, I was vulnerable, and I didn't like it.
Even with all these soldiers and all this equipment, I knew that anywhere, at any time, any Iraqi with a gun, a wall to hide behind, and one decent eye could pick me off faster than a hawk nabs a mouse.
Second, with hardly one foot into the war, I was also uneasy about what we were doing there. Something was amiss.
We hadn't found anything in this girl's house, but we had busted it up pretty well in 30 minutes and had taken away her brothers. Inside, another squad was still ransacking the house. I didn't enjoy being stuck guarding this girl under the carport, in the cool April air before dawn in Ramadi.
Her questions haunted me, and I didn't like not being able to answer them -- even to myself.
Busting into and ransacking homes remained one of my most common duties in Iraq. Before my time was up, I took part in about 200 raids.
We never found weapons or indications of terrorism.
Joshua Key, 28, was a poor, uneducated Oklahoma country boy who saw the U.S. army and its promised benefits -- from free health care to career training -- as the ticket to a better life. In 2002, not yet 24 but already married and the father of two , Key enlisted. He says his recruiting officer promised he'd never be deployed abroad, but a year later he was in Iraq.
Want More? Well? Do Ya?
If I were Bush, Cheney, Perle, Rice, Rumsfield, Wolfiwitcz, Ledden, Feith, et al, I'd be concerned about the concept of treating terrorism as a criminal / intelligence operation. Because when one thinks about the biggest source of death, war profiteering, and terror on the mass scale...all the evidence leads back to them.
No wonder we're getting terror threat levels cranked up...just in time for the November elections. There's one group of people I know that have a lot more to lose than just an election.
If I were Bush, Cheney, etc. I would have committed Sepukku a long time ago. And yes, they do have a lot more to lose than an election, and with any hope they will lose it ALL.
Oh I forgot some portions of this interview.
Hayes slammed her in the face with the stock of his M-16. She fell face down into the dirt, bleeding and silent. The woman lay still on the ground. I pushed Hayes away.
"What are you doing, man?" I said to him. "You have a wife and two kids! Don't be hitting her like that."
He looked at me with eyes full of hatred, as if he was ready to kill me for saying those words, but he did not touch the woman again.
But our platoon was made to stand guard outside that house for about an hour. The women started shouting and screaming. The men stayed in there with them, behind closed doors. It went on and on and on.
Finally, the men came out and told us to get the hell out of there.
It struck me then that we, the American soldiers, were the terrorists.
We were terrorizing Iraqis.
Intimidating them.
Beating them.
Destroying their homes.
Probably raping them.
The ones we didn't kill had all the reasons in the world to become terrorists themselves.
Given what we were doing to them, who could blame them for wanting to kill us, and all Americans?
A sick realization lodged like a cancer in my gut.
It grew and festered, and troubled me more with every passing day.
We, the Americans, had become the terrorists in Iraq.
We never found weapons or indications of terrorism.
I never found a thing that seemed to justify the terror we inflicted every time we blasted through the door of a civilian home, broke everything in sight, punched and zipcuffed the men, and sent them away.
For the complete story. Here
.
So, when George Worst Bush is a wanted man in several countries around the world and hopefully in America, will he then be correct that, "... it is not enough to serve our enemies with legal papers. With those attacks, the terrorists and supporters declared war on the United States of America — and war is what they got." Wars of Aggression birthed TORTURE, inhumane treatment, indefinite detention, and attempted withholding of a basic defense.
Mudshark;
This is the site you got your story from. The website is from Iraq and has been censored by Google. Do you have any stories from a credible news service. Here is what the site itself said about Google.
Lost in the cyberspace
Google's censorship against Uruknet
Uruknet
Google must really have a thing against Uruknet. After Google News’ censorship Uruknet disappears even on Google’s search engine. Google stopped indexing Uruknet the middle of May. After Uruknet wrote (again!) many e-mails to Google (and again! we didn’t receive any reply) Google restarted indexing some (not all!) Uruknet’s article on June 17. However, it seems that these articles have a short life on Google since they keep disappearing immediately after they are indexed. For instance this is a Google’s page saved today, June 19, at 3pm Rome time and this is the same search Google page, the same day at 10 pm Rome time. While the first page at 3pm shows the Uruknet’s article indexed by Google, in the second page’s results the article disappeared and Google left simple the Uruknet’s homepage. Moreover Uruknet’s articles indexed by Google before the middle of May are being disappearing as if someone is manually deleting them. As odd it may seem, it’s as if someone inside Google deleted the indexed article...We don’t ask anymore our readers to write to Google since we lost even our last hopes in their fairness and good faith, but we would be grateful if our readers could post and distribute this article over the Internet; this affair goes far beyond Uruknet and Internet censorship is a real threat and is happening now...
continua / continued [45020] [ 20-jun-2008 02:29 ECT ]
They'll never apologize...instead they'll do what they've always done: attack the messenger w/the "you're a traitor and aiding the enemy" meme that they always used when confronted with facts that don't support their ideological goals...
John Kerry has cojones the size of peas. That type of guy never receives an apology.
rb @ 64:
Probably the same reason you don't see any flag draped coffins.
This admin has censored damn near everything. Does the word FISA mean anything to you? Hell, they censored th MSM from showing any dead US GI's. Ahhhh, Cheney, Helluva guy that President is.
I mean you no disrespect, And I will always support our troops. But to think that they have all been angels is naive. It's a fact of any conflict and has been since the beginning of time . All the more reason to get them the hell outta there NOW!
OK, I'm done for the night.
good nite
be well.
Kerry was right--terrorists must be found through investigation and tried under criminal law. Endless war will only strengthen such activities in response. Bin Laden could have been caught years ago if Cheney and Bush had wanted to. But he is useful to them and to people like Perle and Kristol and all their profiteer buddies.
rb
I suggest that you may wish to pick the book Mission Rejected: U.S. Soldiers Who Say NO To Iraq by Peter Laufer or the testimony of the Winter Soldiers told last spring in Washington D.C. or Chris Hedges's latest book Collateral Damage, as evidence of the atrocities that have been committed by American soldiers, and which have been told by them, in Iraq and Afghanistan.
This would go against the whole neocon philosophy as stated in the PNAC documents:
"Fight and decisively win in multiple, simultaneous theater wars"
The PNAC's reference to a "catastrophic and catalyzing event" echoes a similar statement by David Rockefeller to the United Nations Business Council in 1994:
"We are on the verge of global transformation. All we need is the right major crisis and the nations will accept the New World Order."
Similarly, in the words Zbigniew Brzezinski in his book, The Grand Chessboard:.
"…it may find it more difficult to fashion a consensus [in America] on foreign policy issues, except in the circumstances of a truly massive and widely perceived direct external threat." Zbigniew Brzezinski, who was National Security Adviser to President Jimmy Carter was one of the key architects of the Al Qaeda network, created by the CIA at the onslaught of the Soviet Afghan war (1979-1989).
The "catastrophic and catalyzing event" as stated by the PNAC is an integral part of US military-intelligence planning. General Franks, who led the military campaign into Iraq, pointed recently (October 2003) to the role of a "massive casualty-producing event" to muster support for the imposition of military rule in America. (See General Tommy Franks calls for Repeal of US Constitution, November 2003.
The only way to truly put a stop to most of the blowback is for the the American people to think the unthinkable which is to realize the biggest threat to the Constitution and our country lies within our own government. These war criminals and those who worship riches over everything else have show time and time again who they are. It is time to believe them.
Cheney's "Rebuilding America's Defenses" spells it out.
swampfox @ 58:
if ever some asshole , army navy marines blackwater came and knocked down my door in the middle of the night , ill take out at least three of them and id expect any who hate being subjected to that kind of treatment to do the same! this is my country iraq and afganistans thiers we have no buisness following george w bushes fachist plans ,not to day not ever!
Come on, this was never about beating the terrorists or winning a war. If we really wanted Osama, with our military, we could get him. Instead he played the role of boogie-man used to scare the shit out of Americans and justify unprecedented presidential powers and to overthrow a regime that had fallen out of favor with the powers that be. Not to mention the fact that as soon as war was declared it emboldened a bunch of Islamist who would have otherwise stayed at home with their families if this had been a counter-terrorism operation. Bush and his merry band of jackass sycophants turned out to be the best recruiting tool that Al-Queda has ever had.
it certainly took long enough for this to get dug up. that the importance of "law enforcement" in fighting criminal actors was never a discussion after bush's fiat is one of the greatest failures of the past eight years.
declaring "we don't need no stinking law enforcement," sneering at kerry for pointing out that the iraq occupation was looking to cost over $200 billion and the original provocation of muqtadr al sadr are just three of the incredibly bone-headed acts by the bush administration which have never received the attention that, imho, they deserve.
apologies are owed, to all of us.
I'd like to see a CSI: Miami - with the armed forces (or maybe blackwater ) instead of that red haired guy - sending in the airstrikes (taking some collateral damage unfortunately) then tanks running over all the crime scene blowing stuff up - make for a damn fine episode - like "24" - on steroids!
I guess we should leave one office open for the Bush - Cheney administration after the election -- call it the Office of Apology -- we could close it after the boys have apologized -- to ALL those suffering from a loss.
Let's face it. Subtilty is lost the farther right you go. We can argue all we want regarding what "he" said...but the truth remains. Morans will be morans and they'll never accept facts because it threatens "them" somehow. It depresses the hell outa me when I read all of these increadibly valid threads, yet know that the stubborn electorate chooses to wave the flag of this regime.
stoopit peeple...
Ah poop.
I'm goin to bed.
Why do we think Kerry will even ASK for an apology ?
He's let Bush walk all over him before without putting up even the HINT of a fight, why should we think he will do otherwise now ?
Kerry got exactly what he wanted, he did not WANT to win in 2004 and he didn't. lets move on.
I'm sure Kerry will accept his apology, he accepted his presidency.....
But...but...but..if you call it a war on terror you are really declaring war on an idea, and since an idea can never be defeated you have an excuse to wage wars without end. If the chief victims of the war are your own citizens....all the better! The neocons are going to have to be sent back to the shop for recalibration.
I thought we’d already resolved this.
You'd think, wouldn't you? In fact, we should have realized it from the very beginning. Indeed, some of us did: In an unpublished op-ed dated January 5, 2002 - six and a-half years ago - I wrote that
And I sure as hell was not the only one saying that.
Oh, as as long as I'm blowing my own horn here, I'll add that in that same piece I also wrote that
Which is also something that was or at least should have been obvious from the beginning - and, again, something I was surely not alone in saying.
The Exotic, yet bitter Chico Hussein Escuela @ 77:
Umm, no offense, but, um, you do know the word "sarcasm," yes?
Wise_Fool @ 54:
i would expect an answer like this to come from a republican not a liberal, we have to do it , widen the war in afganistan because dear leader thinks its his perspective that it must be done , obama doesnt control my mind and my mind says , BULLSHIT!
Wise_Fool @ 54:
Dying - and, incidentally, killing - for someone else's lies isn't noble.
What's more interesting is how easy it was for Bush to take two terms with lies. One would think John McCain is smart to use the same plan it worked so well. Americans are losing everything and our troops are treated like trash while Americans just get a bumper sticker. African Americans are dying while serving in the US Military as McCain and the Media say blacks don't anything for this country. Hate and racism is going full steam ahead. While Obama visits World Leaders and McCain follows the Bush/Cheney policy, Russian Leaders wont even speak to McCain. Iran President showed his respect to America, yet while he was visiting the USA he was treated with total disrespect. Thanks to the Bush Administration, America has lost all it's Values.
"Terrorists should be perceived and described as criminals, not holy warriors, and our analysis suggests there is no battlefield solution to terrorism."
Well, "Duh-uh!"
Phil Gramms is right. We are a nation of whiners. Since 9/11, we have been whining about the injury we suffered, using it to justify beligerent and arrogant antisocial behavior. But the bigger the fuss we make, the more it encourages al Quaida, because it seems to them that they REALLY HURT US, and could actually defeat America and establish a worldwide caliphate.
As soon as Bush started talking about a Crusade, and then a War on Terror, we were lost. He elevated Osama bin Ladin from an egomaniacal zealot leading a gang of losers to leader of a movement equivalent to nationhood.
Of course, Bush did that to puff up his own ego, to cast himself as a much bigger historical figure, leading the nation in a "clash of civilizations." He wanted to be Alexander the Great, when we needed Elliot Ness.
Obama and the Dems need to SHOUT the findings of this study at all of the blowhard neocons, the Chimp, and St. McCain.
This article is pushing the same policies of the Clinton Administration. Containment and treating terrorist as a law enforcement issue rather than an attack on our people and our sovereignty led us to 9/11. If we had acted much more forcefully in 1993 we would not have suffered all of the attacks we did during the Clinton Administration.
In addition, that so called cold war containment also included numerous military combat operations in Korea (on going), Vietnam, Laos, Cambodia, North Africa, Vietnam & China, India & China, Afghanistan & the Soviet Union, Angola & Cuba, US/Contras & Nicaragua, Peru & Shining Path, Columbia & the FARC (on going) not to mention the Nuclear Stand Off over Cuba. All of those are just off the top of my head. So “Containment” was achieved not just diplomatically but militarily, just like now.
Remember, unlike the 8 years of the Clinton Administration, so far over the last seven years we have not had an attack on our people outside the main battlefields of Southwest Asia.
Below is a reminder of the failure of Containment and treating terror as a law enforcement issue.
Some of Clinton's law enforcement anti-terrorist efforts resulted in:
1993
-Mir Aimal Kansi, a Pakistani, fires an AK-47 assault rifle into cars waiting at a stoplight in front of the Central Intelligence Agency headquarters, killing two and injuring three others.
-World Trade Center bombing kills six and injures over 1000 people, by coalition of five groups: Jamaat Al-Fuqra'/Gamaat Islamiya/Hamas/Islamic Jihad/National Islamic Front.
-Failed New York City landmark bomb plot.
1994
-In the Brooklyn Bridge Shooting, Rashid Baz kills a Hasidic seminary student and wounds four on the Brooklyn Bridge in New York City.
-Oklahoma City bombing kills 168 people, 19 of them children; the most deadly act of domestic terrorism in the United States to date. Though not proven, foreign involvement was highly suspected.
1997
-Ali Abu Kamal opens fire on tourists at an observation deck atop the Empire State Building in New York City, killing a Danish national and wounding visitors from the United States, Argentina, Switzerland and France before turning the gun on himself. A handwritten note carried by the gunman claims this was a punishment attack against the "enemies of Palestine". His widow claimed he became suicidal after losing $300,000 in a business venture. In a 2007 interview with the New York Daily News his daughter said her mother's story was a cover crafted by the Palestinian Authority and that her father wanted to punish the United States for its support of Israel.
-U.S. embassy bombings by al-Qaeda in Dar es Salaam and Nairobi, killing 225 people and injuring more than 4,000.
1999
-Ahmed Ressam is arrested on the United States-Canada border in Port Angeles, Washington; he confessed to planning to bomb the Los Angeles International Airport as part of the 2000 millennium attack plots.
2000
-The last of the 2000 millennium attack plots fails, as the boat meant to bomb USS The Sullivans sinks.
-USS Cole bombing by al-Qaeda kills 17 US sailors and wounds 40 off the port of Aden.
I must admit that my hero Ronald Reagan did commit a grievous error when he pulled our forces out of Lebanon after the Marine Barracks attack. I understand that after our political defeat in Vietnam and the embarrassment of the Carter Administration’s failures in Iran that resulted in our embassy staff being held hostage for 444 days, President Reagan knew that the American people did not have the intestinal fortitude to take on another long fight.
I can only hope we haven’t come to that, again.
mudshark @ 50: rb @ 47: Really, he was right. You have knowledge of American soldiers terrorrizing women and children in their homes at night. Tell me more.
mudshark @ 45: rb @ 44: Why should he need to apologize? He was right. You obviously don’t keep up with current events. This has been hashed out so many times now. I’m not going to educate you. I’ll leave it up to other people. Your boring.
Ok, I feel sorry for you. So I went looking for some proof.
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I recently retired from the Army after 25 years. Due to my type of job I spent considerable time working with the Marines. I am a Panama, Gulf War, OEF (In Afghanistan), OEF (3 times to Iraq this go around) veteran.
The crap that the person put in his total email is just plain old BS, period.
Typical America Hating "L"ib. If the facts don't support your Socialist Candidate's positions then just make them up.
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