What is his duration of combat seat time? If it was 20 hours, that would be like 3 or 4 missions. Was he that bad a pilot? Funny how that question being asked would really cause the right's head to explode. That was a great ad, btw. If only it could be shown on television, right after American Idol.
Fri, 08/15/2008 - 23:29 — Bill Norton (not verified)
So you like this ad, eh? Fine then, but I don't want to hear any whining when negative ads are directed at Obama. If it's OK for us to do it to them, then it's OK for them to do it to us.
Myself, I think it's a poorly done spot that will piss off McCain supporters and will go unnoticed and forgotten by everyone else.
Bill Norton, there is a big difference between lying in negative ads and telling the truth. Which part of this ad was a lie?
McCains ads are full of lies. Obama does NOT want to raise taxes on families making $40,000. Obama does NOT vote more with bush than McCain.
So you like this ad, eh? Fine then, but I don't want to hear any whining when negative ads are directed at Obama. If it's OK for us to do it to them, then it's OK for them to do it to us.
This guy is like voting for Bush. Throw in his unwillingness to listen, an inattentiveness that borders on contempt, and a life of privilege just like the current Commander in Chief, only actually going to Vietnam, and his one defining event in his life, being held as a POW, somehow makes him remotely qualified for the job?
Its another "privilege" he thinks he is entitled to. Expose this fraud.
So you like this ad, eh? Fine then, but I don't want to hear any whining when negative ads are directed at Obama. If it's OK for us to do it to them, then it's OK for them to do it to us.
Myself, I think it's a poorly done spot that will piss off McCain supporters and will go unnoticed and forgotten by everyone else.
This is not something to be proud of.
Maybe you just haven't noticed yet but McCain's supporters have already come out with negative ads, books and lies
I can only hope Obama will bring McCain's poll numbers down to Bush's poll numbers, where it belongs. Considering that McCain voted with Bush 95% of the time, this should be easy. If only the incompetent Obama campaign knew what they were doing.
Adultery is an offense to God? What God? Always with the religious facade in this nightmare of a country.
John McGaffe is a circus clown. And he will get selected. They'll just manipulate the polls until election time. Then they'll throw a state or two and miscount the recount. And if all else fails there's always the supreme court to bail the maniacs out.
Wasn't McCain a bad Pilot? Wasn't he bottom of his class? Isn't he an adulterer who dumped his crippled wife for the rich young blond? Wasn't he involved with the S&L debacle? Isn't he involved in the mortgage deregulation scandal? Doesn't he unashamedly surround himself with lobbyists?
What has McCain's ads about Obama said that was true?
Does Obama portray himself as the Messiah? Does his tax plan raise taxes on people making $42,000 a year? Does any Obama plan involve surrendering in Iraq?
Was Obama acting like an egotistical rock star because he didn't run away when over 200,000 people showed up to hear him in Berlin? Because he went ahead and spoke in spite of the size of the crowd? Did Obama go to the gym instead of visiting the troops?
Am I missing something Here? McCain lies about Obama every time he says abything at all, Obama lists actual facts about McCain and his record, and you somehow see this as a level field where Obama will look bad for going negative?
Try wrapping your brain around this: If Obama is going to point out facts about McCain, he has to go to Negative Town, because that's where McCain lives.
Wasn't McCain a bad Pilot? Wasn't he bottom of his class? Isn't he an adulterer who dumped his crippled wife for the rich young blond? Wasn't he involved with the S&L debacle? Isn't he involved in the mortgage deregulation scandal? Doesn't he unashamedly surround himself with lobbyists?
What has McCain's ads about Obama said that was true?
Does Obama portray himself as the Messiah? Does his tax plan raise taxes on people making $42,000 a year? Does any Obama plan involve surrendering in Iraq?
Was Obama acting like an egotistical rock star because he didn't run away when over 200,000 people showed up to hear him in Berlin? Because he went ahead and spoke in spite of the size of the crowd? Did Obama go to the gym instead of visiting the troops?
Am I missing something Here? McCain lies about Obama every time he says abything at all, Obama lists actual facts about McCain and his record, and you somehow see this as a level field where Obama will look bad for going negative?
Try wrapping your brain around this: If Obama is going to point out facts about McCain, he has to go to Negative Town, because that's where McCain lives.
Somehow this bad pilot - who crashed 5 planes, who graduated 2nd to last at the Academy, was on the flight deck of the carrier USS Forrestal when the jet in front/rear of him touched off a devastating and fatal fire from some rockets and bomb munitions.
Oh, and his father and grandfather were US Navy Admirals. Nah, nothing to see here.
So you like this ad, eh? Fine then, but I don't want to hear any whining when negative ads are directed at Obama. If it's OK for us to do it to them, then it's OK for them to do it to us.
Myself, I think it's a poorly done spot that will piss off McCain supporters and will go unnoticed and forgotten by everyone else.
Thought up a new game we can play. It's called "Six Degrees of Exculpation". I got the idea from watching that great moral philosopher Sean Hannity bellowing about McCain's adultery being excusable because he was a POW for five and a half years. The rules are simple. If you can establish some sort of personal connection to McCain through six people or less any moral failings are excused. They just don't count. Larry Craig knows McCain personally, for example, so his washroom antics are okay. A mulligan if you will. You don't have to list your personal failing just claim your prize. McCain's five and a half years as a POW become your ticket to moral absolution. Anybody want to try?
If there is one thing the folks over at John McCain's headquarters will understand, you can bet this kick ass campaign add is it. There is nothing weak about it. It is full of truthful hard hitting facts that is a fact in every state of these United States. My hats off to the producer.
27 harley Says: My favorite quote was from McCain:
“I met Cindy by the plane”.
The rest of us none elitist would say “I met ____ at the airport.”
----------
Actually it was another great line in that same "response".
There were two babies Cindy was show that were going to die at an orphanage (over dramatic much?) and Cindy came back with one. I would of asked him "What about the other baby"?
Much has been made of late about Jerome R. Corsi's smear book on Obama... "Obamanation", but did you know that up until March of this year that he was claiming McCain was being backed by an Al Qaida support group?
EXCERPT:
ELECTION 2008
Group tied to al-Qaida backs McCain for prez
'They will do all they can to turn Kosovo into a jihadist camp in the heart of Europe'
Presumptive Republican presidential nominee John McCain has enjoyed strong support from a lobbyist group that backs the Kosovo Liberation Army despite allegations the KLA is a Muslim terrorist group with ties to criminal drug networks and al-Qaida.
The Albanian American Civic League, or AACL, regards the KLA as "freedom fighters," said the AACL's president, former Republican congressman Joe DioGuardi of New York.
They're "not terrorist, like the Serbs and Greeks say," DioGuardi insisted in an interview with WND.
But Islam expert Robert Spencer, editor of the popular website Jihad Watch, contends radical Islam is the driving force behind the Kosovo independence movement.
"There is no excusing the excesses of the Serbs under (former President Slobodan) Milosevic, but there is no denying also that jihadists have been pouring into Bosnia and Kosovo, preparing to use them as a base for jihad activity in Europe – and we have been helping them," Spencer told WND.
SNIP!
In April 1999, McCain and Sen. Joe Lieberman, D-Conn., co-sponsored the "Kosovo Self-Defense Act" with the goal of arming the KLA in their battle against the Serbs.
McCain co-sponsored the legislation despite serious concerns voiced at that time in Republican policy forums, warning the KLA was a criminal terrorist organization with ties to al-Qaida and Osama bin Laden.
The U.S. Senate Republican Policy Committee issued a white paper March 31, 1999, concluding the KLA was closely associated with:
* "The extensive Albanian crime network that extends throughout Europe and into North America, including allegations that a major portion of the KLA finances are derived from that network, mainly proceeds from drug trafficking; and
* Terrorist organizations motivated by the ideology of radical Islam, including assets of Ian and of the notorious Osama bin-Laden – who has vowed a global terrorist war against Americans and American interests."
SNIP!
WND asked if DioGuardi or the Albanian community had raised as much as $1 million for McCain, regardless how many events were involved.
"Not yet," DioGuardi answered.
He admitted to being a top fundraiser for McCain in 2008 and he said he was pledged to raise as much as $100,000 this year for the presidential campaign.
"The Albanian American Civic League also has a PAC, and we have already given the maximum we can give to McCain," DioGuardi affirmed.
Is this is a sign of mental instability?
=====
He's a nut case for sure.
It took Miss KindaSleazy FIVE HOURS to convince Saakashvili he had to sign the ceasefire agreement that Sarkozy's man had negotiated with the Russians.
And then she muddied the waters by declaring that the ceasefire agreement requires Russia to remove its troops immediately, conveniently overlooking the stipulation that Russian troops will remain temporarily to perform security operations.
Asked what "temporarily" means the Russians have said they can't give a timetable for withdrawal - that willhave to be determined by conditions on the ground.
.. oooooops ..
But Saakashvili has already declared victory. He did that several nights ago, in a big rally in Tbilisi.
He was either 100% crazy to attack South Ossetia, or he had been told the US or NATO was going to back him up, in which case he was 100% crazy to believe that.
I'd be chewing my necktie right about now too if I were he.
So you like this ad, eh? Fine then, but I don't want to hear any whining when negative ads are directed at Obama. If it's OK for us to do it to them, then it's OK for them to do it to us.
Myself, I think it's a poorly done spot that will piss off McCain supporters and will go unnoticed and forgotten by everyone else.
This is not something to be proud of.
You couldn't say it any better.
Neither is losing. Do you believe for a moment the the McCain campaign and its' surrogates like Corsi will abandon their attack ads, their lies and distortions? Ask John Kerry how that worked out. The high road is just like Springfield's escalator to nowhere in The Simpsons. Obama is perfectly right to take that road. Just leave the attacks to us.
30 MountainMan23 Asked what “temporarily” means the Russians have said they can’t give a timetable for withdrawal - that willhave to be determined by conditions on the ground.
--------
Russia's president Dimitry Medvedev yesterday signed a ceasefire agreement to end the bloody 10-day-old war in Georgia, but gave no clear indication of when he would begin to withdraw Russian troops.
In a snub to the United States, which has demanded that Moscow remove its armed forces from Georgia immediately, Medvedev said the Russian military would remain inside Georgia until 'extra security measures' were in place.
Russia's Foreign Minister, Sergei Lavrov, gave no timetable for a pullout. He said Moscow would withdraw once security measures had been carried out in the conflict zone - the breakaway enclaves of South Ossetia and Abkhazia.
..
Much has been made of late about Jerome R. Corsi's smear book on Obama... "Obamanation", but did you know that up until March of this year that he was claiming McCain was being backed by an Al Qaida support group?
EXCERPT:
ELECTION 2008
Group tied to al-Qaida backs McCain for prez
'They will do all they can to turn Kosovo into a jihadist camp in the heart of Europe'
Presumptive Republican presidential nominee John McCain has enjoyed strong support from a lobbyist group that backs the Kosovo Liberation Army despite allegations the KLA is a Muslim terrorist group with ties to criminal drug networks and al-Qaida.
The Albanian American Civic League, or AACL, regards the KLA as "freedom fighters," said the AACL's president, former Republican congressman Joe DioGuardi of New York.
They're "not terrorist, like the Serbs and Greeks say," DioGuardi insisted in an interview with WND.
But Islam expert Robert Spencer, editor of the popular website Jihad Watch, contends radical Islam is the driving force behind the Kosovo independence movement.
"There is no excusing the excesses of the Serbs under (former President Slobodan) Milosevic, but there is no denying also that jihadists have been pouring into Bosnia and Kosovo, preparing to use them as a base for jihad activity in Europe – and we have been helping them," Spencer told WND.
SNIP!
In April 1999, McCain and Sen. Joe Lieberman, D-Conn., co-sponsored the "Kosovo Self-Defense Act" with the goal of arming the KLA in their battle against the Serbs.
McCain co-sponsored the legislation despite serious concerns voiced at that time in Republican policy forums, warning the KLA was a criminal terrorist organization with ties to al-Qaida and Osama bin Laden.
The U.S. Senate Republican Policy Committee issued a white paper March 31, 1999, concluding the KLA was closely associated with:
* "The extensive Albanian crime network that extends throughout Europe and into North America, including allegations that a major portion of the KLA finances are derived from that network, mainly proceeds from drug trafficking; and
* Terrorist organizations motivated by the ideology of radical Islam, including assets of Ian and of the notorious Osama bin-Laden – who has vowed a global terrorist war against Americans and American interests."
SNIP!
WND asked if DioGuardi or the Albanian community had raised as much as $1 million for McCain, regardless how many events were involved.
"Not yet," DioGuardi answered.
He admitted to being a top fundraiser for McCain in 2008 and he said he was pledged to raise as much as $100,000 this year for the presidential campaign.
"The Albanian American Civic League also has a PAC, and we have already given the maximum we can give to McCain," DioGuardi affirmed.
http://wnd.com/index.php?pageId=57678
that Al Qaida support group you speak of is also known as the Bush Administration.
Thought up a new game we can play. It's called "Six Degrees of Exculpation". I got the idea from watching that great moral philosopher Sean Hannity bellowing about McCain's adultery being excusable because he was a POW for five and a half years. The rules are simple. If you can establish some sort of personal connection to McCain through six people or less any moral failings are excused. They just don't count. Larry Craig knows McCain personally, for example, so his washroom antics are okay. A mulligan if you will. You don't have to list your personal failing just claim your prize. McCain's five and a half years as a POW become your ticket to moral absolution. Anybody want to try?
My dad once played in a band for a Hollywood party that Ronny Raygun attended, John McCame attended Ronnie’s funeral, but seeing that I’m without sin, can I go out now and sin and be excused?
Neither is losing. Do you believe for a moment the the McCain campaign and its' surrogates like Corsi will abandon their attack ads, their lies and distortions? Ask John Kerry how that worked out. The high road is just like Springfield's escalator to nowhere in The Simpsons. Obama is perfectly right to take that road. Just leave the attacks to us.
Hi, PtG and all ;-}
On a related note:
One of the more pernicious attack strategeries the wingnuts are employing, as many of us know, is the reichwing email circle-jerk to friends, family et al. I have been enjoying some dipshit debunkery with my usual tactful diplomacy amongst some of my relatives recently and found My Right Wing Dad to be quite useful... I thought it might be verrry helpful if as many of the highly-knowledgeables as possible here at C&L were to peruse the archives and lend a hand with the debunkery. I've been able to sway some away from the dumbdarkside, which is encouraging...
Oh, and Mark Foley and McWarnersWhore used the same 'paigeing' system, so Foley's off the hook...
I've been thinking lately that our "Democracy" is worse than China's "Communism" in that at least there, people know that their media is censored and carefully crafted. Here in the US, we still think media is a something dynamic and uncensored by the government. The saddest part is, the government doesn't really censor the media here, it censors itself. You can go to websites like Project Censored and see all sorts of stories that are pretty damn important that never make the airwaves or the news papers. They end up being picked up by "fringe" media like the blogs and the "alternative" periodicals like American Free Press, Dissent, etc.
Worse of all, we have allowed ourselves to be domesticated under this scheme with no discernible benefit monetarily, physically, economically, or socially. We have dumbed ourselves down merely for the benefit of the elite which control our nation. Now if this weren't so sad and disturbing, I would applaud their genius and craftsmanship and totality of their control without nary a peep or gripe from the majority of us. A bloodless reverse coup. A silent enslavement. A low-key fascism.
I've been thinking lately that our "Democracy" is worse than China's "Communism" in that at least there, people know that their media is censored and carefully crafted. Here in the US, we still think media is a something dynamic and uncensored by the government. The saddest part is, the government doesn't really censor the media here, it censors itself. You can go to websites like Project Censored and see all sorts of stories that are pretty damn important that never make the airwaves or the news papers. They end up being picked up by "fringe" media like the blogs and the "alternative" periodicals like American Free Press, Dissent, etc.
Worse of all, we have allowed ourselves to be domesticated under this scheme with no discernible benefit monetarily, physically, economically, or socially. We have dumbed ourselves down merely for the benefit of the elite which control our nation. Now if this weren't so sad and disturbing, I would applaud their genius and craftsmanship and totality of their control without nary a peep or gripe from the majority of us. A bloodless reverse coup. A silent enslavement. A low-key fascism.
Absofreakinglutely Brilliant!
amazing that people think the planners are incompetent.
You'd have to ask one of Obama's foreign policy guru's, Zbigniew Brzezinski...
who pretty much laid out the Georgia gambit in his book the Grand Chessboard.
It also laid out that America wouldn't support foreign wars unless we were prodded into it like so much cattle without a devasting blow to the US, preferably a symbolic US icon.
Thought up a new game we can play. It's called "Six Degrees of Exculpation". I got the idea from watching that great moral philosopher Sean Hannity bellowing about McCain's adultery being excusable because he was a POW for five and a half years. The rules are simple. If you can establish some sort of personal connection to McCain through six people or less any moral failings are excused. They just don't count. Larry Craig knows McCain personally, for example, so his washroom antics are okay. A mulligan if you will. You don't have to list your personal failing just claim your prize. McCain's five and a half years as a POW become your ticket to moral absolution. Anybody want to try?
My dad once played in a band for a Hollywood party that Ronny Raygun attended, John McCame attended Ronnie’s funeral, but seeing that I’m without sin, can I go out now and sin and be excused?
You are now formally entitled to be a completely amoral a-hole on a least one occasion. Enjoy your sin.
Thought up a new game we can play. It's called "Six Degrees of Exculpation". I got the idea from watching that great moral philosopher Sean Hannity bellowing about McCain's adultery being excusable because he was a POW for five and a half years. The rules are simple. If you can establish some sort of personal connection to McCain through six people or less any moral failings are excused. They just don't count. Larry Craig knows McCain personally, for example, so his washroom antics are okay. A mulligan if you will. You don't have to list your personal failing just claim your prize. McCain's five and a half years as a POW become your ticket to moral absolution. Anybody want to try?
McTorturedLogic was against waterboarding, now he's for it, and the Pope was for Nazism and pederasty, now he's against it, and Mengele was a nazi who tortured and worked for Hitler (who allied with Stalin) and Torquemada was a Catholic, and etc. etc....still working on Genghis Khan connections...
You'd have to ask one of Obama's foreign policy guru's, Zbigniew Brzezinski...
who pretty much laid out the Georgia gambit in his book the Grand Chessboard.
It also laid out that America wouldn't support foreign wars unless we were prodded into it like so much cattle without a devasting blow to the US, preferably a symbolic US icon.
i think i'll check with mccain's lobbyist team first...my guess it's more to do with the NEOCON paln...this is about resources
You'd have to ask one of Obama's foreign policy guru's, Zbigniew Brzezinski...
who pretty much laid out the Georgia gambit in his book the Grand Chessboard.
It also laid out that America wouldn't support foreign wars unless we were prodded into it like so much cattle without a devasting blow to the US, preferably a symbolic US icon.
i think i'll check with mccain's lobbyist team first...my guess it's more to do with the NEOCON paln...this is about resources
It's always been about resources but the corporate fascists raised the bar for higher profits and more control. Now the Russians have to fight fire with fire.
Thought up a new game we can play. It's called "Six Degrees of Exculpation". I got the idea from watching that great moral philosopher Sean Hannity bellowing about McCain's adultery being excusable because he was a POW for five and a half years. The rules are simple. If you can establish some sort of personal connection to McCain through six people or less any moral failings are excused. They just don't count. Larry Craig knows McCain personally, for example, so his washroom antics are okay. A mulligan if you will. You don't have to list your personal failing just claim your prize. McCain's five and a half years as a POW become your ticket to moral absolution. Anybody want to try?
McTorturedLogic was against waterboarding, now he's for it, and the Pope was for Nazism and pederasty, now he's against it, and Mengele was a nazi who tortured and worked for Hitler (who allied with Stalin) and Torquemada was a Catholic, and etc. etc....still working on Genghis Khan connections...
;-}
It's sort of like the internet. Try routing through Pol Pot.
For past seven years, Israeli companies have been helping Gerogian army to preparer for war against Russia through arms deals, training of infantry units and security advice.
Putin's Winning Hand:
Once the Atlantic Alliance is shattered, America's lifeline to the world is kaput
By Mike Whitney
There are no military installations in the city of Tskhinvali. In fact, there are no military targets at all. It is an industrial center consisting of lumber mills, manufacturing plants and residential areas. It is also the home to 30,000 South Ossetians. When Georgian President Mikheil Saakashvili ordered the city to be bombed by warplanes and shelled by heavy artillery last Thursday, he knew that he would be killing hundreds of civilians in their homes and neighborhoods. But he ordered the bombing anyway.
There was no "Battle of Tskhinvali"; that's another fiction. A battle implies that there is an opposing force that is resisting or fighting back. That's not the case here. The Georgian army entered the city unopposed; after all, how can unarmed civilians stop armed units. Most of the townspeople had already fled across the border into Russia or hid in their basements while the tanks and armored vehicles rumbled bye firing at anything that moved.
What took place in South Ossetia last Thursday, was not an invasion or a siege; it was a massacre. The people had no way to defend themselves against a fully-equiped modern army. It was a war crime.
So I hear on Free Speech Radio News today that US special forces trained the same exact Georgian troops that invaded South Ossetia just days or weeks before the invasion. And so then I looked and found an article from 1 month ago which discusses these US servicemen obeying their orders to train Georgian troops, the same Georgian troops that turned around and invaded South Ossetia.
This is an outrage and of course begs the question: what exactly was the Bush administration's involvement in the instigation and lead-up to this invasion during the Olympics and right before an election.
This is of course classic "wagging the dog" before an election. And who has more motive than the criminal Bush administration to wag the dog?
(continued)
So...
... Will we still insist that it is big bag evil Islamic terrorists that are busting down our doors when the international community says, "ENOUGH!" ?
Thought up a new game we can play. It's called "Six Degrees of Exculpation". I got the idea from watching that great moral philosopher Sean Hannity bellowing about McCain's adultery being excusable because he was a POW for five and a half years. The rules are simple. If you can establish some sort of personal connection to McCain through six people or less any moral failings are excused. They just don't count. Larry Craig knows McCain personally, for example, so his washroom antics are okay. A mulligan if you will. You don't have to list your personal failing just claim your prize. McCain's five and a half years as a POW become your ticket to moral absolution. Anybody want to try?
McTorturedLogic was against waterboarding, now he's for it, and the Pope was for Nazism and pederasty, now he's against it, and Mengele was a nazi who tortured and worked for Hitler (who allied with Stalin) and Torquemada was a Catholic, and etc. etc....still working on Genghis Khan connections...
;-}
It's sort of like the internet. Try routing through Pol Pot.
McOldDirty new Ronnie Raygun who was in SAG, so I guess Clint Eastwood, Tommy Lee Jones, Donald Sutherland and James Garner are off the hook for "Space Cowboys".
thepeoplesvoice lost me when they tried to explain why Israel is responsible for the crisis in Georgia. My review: ill-informed demented opinion. Not at all interesting.
thepeoplesvoice lost me when they tried to explain why Israel is responsible for the crisis in Georgia. My review: ill-informed demented opinion. Not at all interesting.
that's why i thought it was interesting...didn't say i agreed
thanks for your review i got a feeling you have a ph.d. in georgia/russia political/economic relations
thepeoplesvoice lost me when they tried to explain why Israel is responsible for the crisis in Georgia. My review: ill-informed demented opinion. Not at all interesting.
that's why i thought it was interesting...didn't say i agreed
thanks for your review i got a feeling you have a ph.d. in georgia/russia political/economic relations
Made no such claim. It doesn't take a PH.D to figure that Zionism has nothing to do with the Georgian crisis. It's just as likely to be chemtrails. Maybe they believe that too but I couldn't make myself read that far. Life's just too short.
constituent @ 59:
thepeoplesvoice lost me when they tried to explain why Israel is responsible for the crisis in Georgia. My review: ill-informed demented opinion. Not at all interesting.
that's why i thought it was interesting...didn't say i agreed
thanks for your review i got a feeling you have a ph.d. in georgia/russia political/economic relations
Made no such claim. It doesn't take a PH.D to figure that Zionism has nothing to do with the Georgian crisis. It's just as likely to be chemtrails. Maybe they believe that too but I couldn't make myself read that far. Life's just too short.
the problem for me is i can't prove israel not involved so i don't make a claim either way......that's why i said it's interesting i'm not that smart. just trying to find out but if you know 100% israel or AIPAC not involved your the better man....i glad i know now.
Peter G @ 61:
that's why i thought it was interesting...didn't say i agreed
thanks for your review i got a feeling you have a ph.d. in georgia/russia political/economic relations
Made no such claim. It doesn't take a PH.D to figure that Zionism has nothing to do with the Georgian crisis. It's just as likely to be chemtrails. Maybe they believe that too but I couldn't make myself read that far. Life's just too short.
the problem for me is i can't prove israel not involved so i don't make a claim either way......that's why i said it's interesting i'm not that smart. just trying to find out but if you know 100% israel or AIPAC not involved your the better man....i glad i know now.
Don't feel bad. Proving something doesn't exist is actually impossible. One can only prove existence by example. That's why we have various Faiths. With those you can believe anything.
And with that I'm out of here.
Bill Norton, there is a big difference between lying in negative ads and telling the truth. Which part of this ad was a lie?
McCains ads are full of lies. Obama does NOT want to raise taxes on families making $40,000. Obama does NOT vote more with bush than McCain.
You're right, of course, but what the Republicans have understood for years is that attacks have to be subtle, indirect, and full of dog whistle codes. The conservatives haven't come right out and called him a 'scary young black man.' No, they use 'inexperienced' instead of 'young,' and they use 'exotic' instead of 'black.' If you run uncoded smear ads, you run the risk of creating SYMPATHY for the target of the attacks. Smearing somebody is an art that takes as much skill as cutting a diamond. It can easily backfire on you.
Wow, here's a shocker: the US government sold out somebody who worked for them, allowing them to be tortured and murdered, and then lied about it. Then again, the US lied about the No-geun Ri massacre.
Truth emerges too late for Kim Soo-im Saturday, August 16, 2008 11:32:49 PM By CHARLES J. HANLEY
Back in the days of "Commies" and "pinkos," of Red scares, black lists, suspicion and smear, Kim Soo-im stood out as a one-woman axis of evil, a villainess without peer.
"The Korean Seductress Who Betrayed America," as the U.S. magazine Coronet labeled her, was a Seoul socialite said to have charmed secret information out of one lover, an American colonel, and passed it to another, a top communist in North Korea.
[...]
Kim Soo-im and her love triangle are gone, buried in separate corners of a turbulent past. But in yellowing U.S. military files stamped "SECRET," hibernating through a long winter of Cold War, the truth survived. Now it has emerged, a half-century too late to save her.
The record of a confidential 1950 U.S. inquiry and other declassified files, obtained by The Associated Press at the U.S. National Archives, tell a different Kim Soo-im story:
Col. John E. Baird had no access to the supposed sensitive information. Kim had no secrets to pass on. And her Korean lover, Lee Gang-kook, later executed by North Korea, may actually have been an American agent.
[...]
"He (Baird) betrayed her," Cho said of Baird. "He had a high position and the power to save her. He could have testified. But he just flew back stateside to his American family."
[...]
Cho pointed out a little-known fact: In 1946, a year after the U.S. Army occupied southern Korea at World War II's end, a U.S. Embassy poll found that 77 percent of southerners wanted a socialist or communist future.
Instead, the U.S. military government kept many of Japan's right-wing Korean collaborators in power, and the U.S. commander, Lt. Gen. John R. Hodge, vowed to "stamp out" the communists.
Surely this is an isolated incident. The US wouldn't do this to people in Cuba, or Vietnam, or Hungary, or Czechoslovakia, or the Kurds Iraq, or other countries, would they?
Oh, that's right, they did. And those who gave the orders to murder innocents get to hide behind "Top Secret" labels and die unpunished, with survivors unwilling to lay appropriate blame after the guilty are dead.
I would lay off his capitulation to enemy torture. Hopefully few of us will have to walk in those moccasins. On the other hand, the ad states that 3 of his planes crashed. If this was directly related to his low grades and partying attitude what was the tax burden to the American taxpayer? Hopefully this practice of giving the unqualified elite such positions in the military has ended.
I have always had a problem imagining our current president behind the controls of a jet. He now has problems riding mountain bikes in the city(hit a policeman). Heck he has problems swallowing pretzels.
Picture this, a tiny tin pot politician of a tiny country surounded by big boys,
listens to some some weasel politicians who promise him the world then dump on him.
Woundnt you eat your tie, crap yer pants and think 'fcuk why did I listen to McCain and Rice' !!!!
He got used and nows knows it, Bay of Pigs, Shia marsh Arabs, Kurds,
He got played like a cheap guitar.
Pakistan has a better opposition party than we do. More people dying in Afghanistan.
Russia's top military brass take lying lessons from us.
Amusing that Pres. Musharuff is going to get impeached for a tiny fraction of the crimes of Bushco.
Chimpy is going to drunkenly wobble his way off into the sunset on his Segway,
humming that Republican song 'so long suckers, and thanks for all the fish'
Sure his wife can and will buy him the White House. To compound it, the electorate is stupid; how else did W get two chances to "F" things up? We're screwed as a nation.
This is the TRUTH about McCain. You have a problem with the truth?
Furthermore, the repukes ARE going to do the same thing to Obama, already started. The difference is, 90% of the shit they say is an absolute lie! But when your policies only benefit people making $300,000 a year and up, you have to focus everyone else's attention on other things.
Unfortunately, taking the "high road" with psycopath's, will only get you President McCain.
Last nights "debate" is a good example of the short attention span of right wing evangelicals, even the young ones. Because McMcain says things in sound bites, very little substance, he was able to get the better applause. Obama tried to explain but their little brains turn off after a few seconds.
Check out the 3rd video down the list about McCain-why media is silent? I know Mc Same! http://www.wakeupfromyourslumber.com/node/6065
If it is not McCain as President,just watch Hillary take the hitching post.
The fix is in :^)
You GOT IT...critical thinking has been killed in AMERICA...it begins in our schools...make them think there is "learning going on" by testing rote instruction and call that ACCOUNTABILITY...look for candidates that can memorize talking points and spew them even BEFORE the questions are asked...and you have a WINNER!!! Then confirmed by the paid for punditry that passes for a FREE PRESS in this country!
And I approve of that ad. It covers McCain's life and career. Yes Cindy paid for the man she wanted and is still paying today. We'll see if the White House is for sale as Bush and Cheney have put the for sale sign out for the rest of America. John McCain is a true example of what it takes to make it in America and a blue print to meeting your golds. McCain lies, cheats and leaves his wife and kids for a rich younger woman. Yes no need for American men to get an education or be a man on your own. Just marry a rich girl and the rest will take care of itself. Most woman buy clothes but Cindy brought a man.
A question the MSM should pose to McCain.
As a Captain in the Navy. Why weren't you given command of a aircraft carrier? Instead of a non-combat training squadron.
What's fun about this ad is that the only arguments against it start with "But...but..."
Repukes can hem and haw on this ad, but McCain really was a horrible pilot, he really did collaborate with the North Vietnamese, he really did take bribes from Charles Keating, he really did dump his wife for a rich woman, he really has gotten preferential treatment his whole life, and so on.
Everything in that ad is not only true, but on closer scrutiny it looks even worse. John McCain should have been kicked out of the Senate for taking bribes. Such a poor military student should never have been allowed to pilot an airplane. At every turn John McCain's life has been propped up by family connections and corrupt allies in politics and business.
Wingnuts want footnotes and sources to back Plisko's viddy because they can't believe it's true. I don't see footnotes on the McCain smear ads. Hell, maybe some of these wingnuts might even go and do a little research and read something for a change.
Sat, 08/16/2008 - 11:53 — Bill Norton (not verified)
OK. I think I'm seeing a problem here. Many of you (Janet @8, roooth @17, Christy Hannity @18, NoGWBpolicyleftinplace @85, and others) seem to equate negative ads with dishonest ads. You couldn't be more wrong.
An ad can be based on undisputed facts and still be negative. At the same time an ad can be based on half truths, distortions and flat out lies and still be positive.
Barak Obama's middle name is Hussein, just like Saddahm's.
Each one of these is true, but do you really think for a second that an ad that mentioned them would be anything other than negative?
An ad's negativity is based on its overall tone and message, not it's accuracy or honesty. Big difference.
Now, some of you may think that it's OK to go negative, and that's fine. I, myself, think there are some very good arguments to be made for negative ads, but as I said in my first post, if you feel that it's OK to run this ad or ones like it, then you've surrendered any claim to be outraged or offended by negative ads against you candidates whoever they may be.
OK. I think I'm seeing a problem here. Many of you (Janet @8, roooth @17, Christy Hannity @18, NoGWBpolicyleftinplace @85, and others) seem to equate negative ads with dishonest ads. You couldn't be more wrong.
Welll, stupid us. Please do enlighten us, concerned and reasonable superior clear thinker...
An ad can be based on undisputed facts and still be negative.
Ooooh, ya almost had it...Especially if the facts are negative, in which case the ad can be entirely true, like this one. Or, "an ad can be based on undisputed facts" taken out of context and/or presented in a misleading way with other opinions mixed in, like the following examples:
Barak Obama's middle name is Hussein, just like Saddahm's.
An ad's negativity is based on its overall tone and message, not it's accuracy or honesty. Big difference.
Ya see where ya went off the logic track here, doncha? In your concerned distaste for 'negativity', you've failed to include out-of-context misleading conclusions in your arguments re accuracy and honesty.
Now, some of you may think that it's OK to go negative, and that's fine. I, myself, think there are some very good arguments to be made for negative ads, but as I said in my first post, if you feel that it's OK to run this ad or ones like it, then you've surrendered any claim to be outraged or offended by negative ads against you candidates whoever they may be.
...unless they're based on lies, distortions, quotes out-of-context or misleading conclusions, if that's alright with you? Now, if you could point to any examples of the above in this ad, you would have a valid argument, but so far you haven't, and you don't.
"My name is 2b, and I approve of the tone of this comment."
than giving the money to the Mark Penn-type ass-hats inhabiting Obama's campaign. These guys/gals could take their already excellent videos and perfect them for television. And that would be $50 million fewer going into the pockets of the campaign idiots.
The only problem is, Dems would have to find a way to shut Obama's mouth so he can't go on t.v. afterwards and condemn the makers of these ads, thus shooting himself in the foot yet again.
Bill Norton Says: So you like this ad, eh? Fine then, but I don’t want to hear any whining when negative ads are directed at Obama. If it’s OK for us to do it to them, then it’s OK for them to do it to us.
Myself, I think it’s a poorly done spot that will piss off McCain supporters and will go unnoticed and forgotten by everyone else.
This is not something to be proud of.
******************************
THERE IS A BIG DIFERENCE BETWEEN TRUTH AND FICTION...THIS IS TRUTH...MCCAIN'S ADS ON OBAMA ARE 99% FICTION. ANY QUESTIONS?
Looks like McCain is as much of a loser as W. Bush is. McCain's "war hero" status is the only thing he has going for him. Both these guys would never have accomplished anything without family connections and money. Pretty scary to think that people this incompetent can make it to the top of the heap, especially when conservatives are supposed to be all about "survival of the fittest".
This stuff reminds of a joke I read about Canadian Conservatives. The Conservative Party is like cream; rich, thick and full of clots.
Welll, stupid us. Please do enlighten us, concerned and reasonable superior clear thinker...
Really, if you can't grasp the concept that negativity is not the same thing as dishonesty, I'm afraid I can't help you.
Agreed, if you insist on conflating out-of-context quotes and intentionally misleading 'conclusions' with an irony laden negative factual ad, you are helplessly grasping at strawmen, and aren't capable of helping anyone. If I had said that negativity is the same as dishonesty, you'd have a valid point, but I didn't, and you stiiiillllll don't.
"My name is 2b, and I approve of the tone and facts of this comment."
So you like this ad, eh? Fine then, but I don't want to hear any whining when negative ads are directed at Obama. If it's OK for us to do it to them, then it's OK for them to do it to us.
Myself, I think it's a poorly done spot that will piss off McCain supporters and will go unnoticed and forgotten by everyone else.
This is not something to be proud of.
Are you kidding me?
After smearing Clinton, Kerry, Max Cleland, 9/11 widows, 12 year old kids who speak up for health care. . after walking around with smirks at the Republican convention wearing purple heart bandaids. . .
After all that ugly, nasty, mocking, dark, shit. . . you are going to get all high and mighty and tell me I AM PROVOKING YOU with my video?
This is a Republican attack add aimed at a Republican. Eat your friggin lumps. . .
The difference between what we do and the work Atwood and Rove and their like should be that the facts we present should be accurate. They just make up what they think people will buy into (the folks they target) and that there won't be time or place to refute.
I'm interested in this information, but it's only useful if there are footnotes and I can access the sources of this information. Otherwise it is just the same sort of garbage coming out of the SwiftBoaters etc.
The difference between what we do and the work Atwood and Rove and their like should be that the facts we present should be accurate. They just make up what they think people will buy into (the folks they target) and that there won't be time or place to refute.
I'm interested in this information, but it's only useful if there are footnotes and I can access the sources of this information. Otherwise it is just the same sort of garbage coming out of the SwiftBoaters etc.
I did this video as if it was a Republican attack add aimed at a Republican. The comment I responded to is acting as if Republicans have been angels all this time and now this video of mine gives us no reason to complain about what they do. My position is that this is a defense to what they do. This is fire with fire. The Democrats think they are fencing while the Republicans are in a gunfight. We can stand around and say how awful their tactics are as we get shot or we can build a better gun and use their tactics against them in a stronger way. In my case I didn't use falsehoods or innuendo. I used facts that have already been put out their for consideration. That is the Achilles heel of Republicans. Most of them have so much REAL dirt on them that we could use their tactics without ever lying. The only thing stopping us are the pearl clutching members of our crowd who would rather complain than win. I submit that these tactics used against Democrats will ALWAYS win unless we embrace them and make them our own as self defense. People of good conscience don't like to play dirty. Fair enough. We also don't like to go to war or get violent but, at times, self defense leaves us no choice. To borrow Lincoln's language: The high road is not a suicide pact.
A web video is a bad place for footnotes but I have provided my sources in the comments for the videos.
Most of it comes from the body of common knowledge. Wikipedia seems to catalog that info very well with loads of footnotes for the sources. The other source I used is The US Veteran Dispatch which is an advocacy group for POW/MIA families and has criticized both Kerry and McCain as well as swift boater Bud Day because of their actions in the senate to shut down the efforts of the POW families in the name of normalizing relations with Vietnam.
Sun, 08/17/2008 - 15:51 — James Lewman (not verified)
I disagree with your ad where you say sorry john your wife can't buy you this house it's just been done twice in the last two elections so what are you saying
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"The Truth is an Offense, but not a Sin" ~ Robert Marley
Good ad. Shorten it by 30 seconds so the red state morons can pay attention, and you would have a very effective piece of footage.
Gotta love the part about being a lousy pilot!
What is his duration of combat seat time? If it was 20 hours, that would be like 3 or 4 missions. Was he that bad a pilot? Funny how that question being asked would really cause the right's head to explode. That was a great ad, btw. If only it could be shown on television, right after American Idol.
NoGWBpolicyleftinplace @ 1:
God forbid they mention anything about policy because their eyes will just gloss over.
So you like this ad, eh? Fine then, but I don't want to hear any whining when negative ads are directed at Obama. If it's OK for us to do it to them, then it's OK for them to do it to us.
Myself, I think it's a poorly done spot that will piss off McCain supporters and will go unnoticed and forgotten by everyone else.
This is not something to be proud of.
Excellent, thanks bluegal.
Bill Norton, there is a big difference between lying in negative ads and telling the truth. Which part of this ad was a lie?
McCains ads are full of lies. Obama does NOT want to raise taxes on families making $40,000. Obama does NOT vote more with bush than McCain.
Bill Norton @ 5:
This guy is like voting for Bush. Throw in his unwillingness to listen, an inattentiveness that borders on contempt, and a life of privilege just like the current Commander in Chief, only actually going to Vietnam, and his one defining event in his life, being held as a POW, somehow makes him remotely qualified for the job?
Its another "privilege" he thinks he is entitled to. Expose this fraud.
Bill Norton @ 5:
Maybe you just haven't noticed yet but McCain's supporters have already come out with negative ads, books and lies
Agreed. Expose this Fraud.
Excellent video. Here's to hoping the Obama campaign starts using videos like this.
I can only hope Obama will bring McCain's poll numbers down to Bush's poll numbers, where it belongs. Considering that McCain voted with Bush 95% of the time, this should be easy. If only the incompetent Obama campaign knew what they were doing.
just saw another offensive pop-up ad here:
"Citizens United Productions presents HYPE The Obama Effect
Watch the Movie Trailer"
really? where's the line, john?
or am i mistaken? i'm not clicking, it just LOOKS like a fright-wing hit job... is it?
great content. but needs a LOT of work in the audio production department. yikes.
Adultery is an offense to God? What God? Always with the religious facade in this nightmare of a country.
John McGaffe is a circus clown. And he will get selected. They'll just manipulate the polls until election time. Then they'll throw a state or two and miscount the recount. And if all else fails there's always the supreme court to bail the maniacs out.
Bill Norton,
What is there in that ad that is untrue?
Wasn't McCain a bad Pilot? Wasn't he bottom of his class? Isn't he an adulterer who dumped his crippled wife for the rich young blond? Wasn't he involved with the S&L debacle? Isn't he involved in the mortgage deregulation scandal? Doesn't he unashamedly surround himself with lobbyists?
What has McCain's ads about Obama said that was true?
Does Obama portray himself as the Messiah? Does his tax plan raise taxes on people making $42,000 a year? Does any Obama plan involve surrendering in Iraq?
Was Obama acting like an egotistical rock star because he didn't run away when over 200,000 people showed up to hear him in Berlin? Because he went ahead and spoke in spite of the size of the crowd? Did Obama go to the gym instead of visiting the troops?
Am I missing something Here? McCain lies about Obama every time he says abything at all, Obama lists actual facts about McCain and his record, and you somehow see this as a level field where Obama will look bad for going negative?
Try wrapping your brain around this: If Obama is going to point out facts about McCain, he has to go to Negative Town, because that's where McCain lives.
I think this is the best ad I've seen content wise anyway. The sound needs work. And I agree w/ #17 *****
Orangutan. @ 1:
What about the intentional omission of the Truth?
What about the acceptance of the Lie?
roooth @ 17:
Somehow this bad pilot - who crashed 5 planes, who graduated 2nd to last at the Academy, was on the flight deck of the carrier USS Forrestal when the jet in front/rear of him touched off a devastating and fatal fire from some rockets and bomb munitions.
Oh, and his father and grandfather were US Navy Admirals. Nah, nothing to see here.
Bill Norton @ 6:
You couldn't say it any better.
Saakashvili caught on camera eating his necktie
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBh9D2WIGsE
Is this is a sign of mental instability?
Thought up a new game we can play. It's called "Six Degrees of Exculpation". I got the idea from watching that great moral philosopher Sean Hannity bellowing about McCain's adultery being excusable because he was a POW for five and a half years. The rules are simple. If you can establish some sort of personal connection to McCain through six people or less any moral failings are excused. They just don't count. Larry Craig knows McCain personally, for example, so his washroom antics are okay. A mulligan if you will. You don't have to list your personal failing just claim your prize. McCain's five and a half years as a POW become your ticket to moral absolution. Anybody want to try?
define "personal", peter...
i've met Barack Obama, even have his signature!
he's my senator, and he's running for president against john w. mcBUSH!
how many degrees is that? ... if any...
i'll hang up and take your answer off-air... hoping for some needed redemption!
g'nite all...
Now Thats What I Am Talking About
If there is one thing the folks over at John McCain's headquarters will understand, you can bet this kick ass campaign add is it. There is nothing weak about it. It is full of truthful hard hitting facts that is a fact in every state of these United States. My hats off to the producer.
Joseph
You can participate in an online poll here
My favorite quote was from McCain:
"I met Cindy by the plane".
The rest of us none elitist would say "I met ____ at the airport."
27 harley Says: My favorite quote was from McCain:
“I met Cindy by the plane”.
The rest of us none elitist would say “I met ____ at the airport.”
----------
Actually it was another great line in that same "response".
There were two babies Cindy was show that were going to die at an orphanage (over dramatic much?) and Cindy came back with one. I would of asked him "What about the other baby"?
Much has been made of late about Jerome R. Corsi's smear book on Obama... "Obamanation", but did you know that up until March of this year that he was claiming McCain was being backed by an Al Qaida support group?
EXCERPT:
http://wnd.com/index.php?pageId=57678
22 harley Says: Saakashvili caught on camera eating his necktie
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBh9D2WIGsE
Is this is a sign of mental instability?
=====
He's a nut case for sure.
It took Miss KindaSleazy FIVE HOURS to convince Saakashvili he had to sign the ceasefire agreement that Sarkozy's man had negotiated with the Russians.
And then she muddied the waters by declaring that the ceasefire agreement requires Russia to remove its troops immediately, conveniently overlooking the stipulation that Russian troops will remain temporarily to perform security operations.
Asked what "temporarily" means the Russians have said they can't give a timetable for withdrawal - that willhave to be determined by conditions on the ground.
.. oooooops ..
But Saakashvili has already declared victory. He did that several nights ago, in a big rally in Tbilisi.
He was either 100% crazy to attack South Ossetia, or he had been told the US or NATO was going to back him up, in which case he was 100% crazy to believe that.
I'd be chewing my necktie right about now too if I were he.
WisconsinDem @ 21:
Neither is losing. Do you believe for a moment the the McCain campaign and its' surrogates like Corsi will abandon their attack ads, their lies and distortions? Ask John Kerry how that worked out. The high road is just like Springfield's escalator to nowhere in The Simpsons. Obama is perfectly right to take that road. Just leave the attacks to us.
30 MountainMan23 Asked what “temporarily” means the Russians have said they can’t give a timetable for withdrawal - that willhave to be determined by conditions on the ground.
--------
Talk about - check and mate.
Guardian UK: Russia signs ceasefire deal but troops stay in Georgia
Rasputin @ 29:
that Al Qaida support group you speak of is also known as the Bush Administration.
Bush tells Russia to get out of Georgia
http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=2008-08-16_D92JM6T80&show_articl...
That even tops "Countries don't invade other countries in the 21st century".
I hope you all realize that a Normany beach scenario - or anything akin to it...
will not save the US from the internal enemies that have hijacker her, and her military.
You/We have a Declaration of Independence....
it trumps the Constitution.
Watching Russia invade Poland again will be cool.
I wonder if they'll take East Germany back or if Merkel will split Poland with them like they did in '39.
Cool. Everything that's old is new again. Or something like that.
Truth B Told @ 36:
I know. I updated it last year.
http://myfightfordemocracy.blogspot.com/2007/07/new-declaration-of-indep...
Peter G @ 23:
My dad once played in a band for a Hollywood party that Ronny Raygun attended, John McCame attended Ronnie’s funeral, but seeing that I’m without sin, can I go out now and sin and be excused?
"Manolo, shoot that piece of shit"
Peter G @ 31:
Hi, PtG and all ;-}
On a related note:
One of the more pernicious attack strategeries the wingnuts are employing, as many of us know, is the reichwing email circle-jerk to friends, family et al. I have been enjoying some dipshit debunkery with my usual tactful diplomacy amongst some of my relatives recently and found My Right Wing Dad to be quite useful... I thought it might be verrry helpful if as many of the highly-knowledgeables as possible here at C&L were to peruse the archives and lend a hand with the debunkery. I've been able to sway some away from the
dumbdarkside, which is encouraging...Oh, and Mark Foley and McWarnersWhore used the same 'paigeing' system, so Foley's off the hook...
;-}
;-}
#6 Bill Norton; My sentiments exactly. Not exactly the high road, was it?
Darryl @ 42:
No, just a level playing field!
is poland next? or the ukraine
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/russia/2566005/Russia-t...
Ron @ 38:
nice update... however....
it doesn't mention anything about the government and its military planning for, and executing, orders to attack its own civilian populations.
it should.
To the concerned high-roaders:
Why Sinners Are Winners
I've been thinking lately that our "Democracy" is worse than China's "Communism" in that at least there, people know that their media is censored and carefully crafted. Here in the US, we still think media is a something dynamic and uncensored by the government. The saddest part is, the government doesn't really censor the media here, it censors itself. You can go to websites like Project Censored and see all sorts of stories that are pretty damn important that never make the airwaves or the news papers. They end up being picked up by "fringe" media like the blogs and the "alternative" periodicals like American Free Press, Dissent, etc.
Worse of all, we have allowed ourselves to be domesticated under this scheme with no discernible benefit monetarily, physically, economically, or socially. We have dumbed ourselves down merely for the benefit of the elite which control our nation. Now if this weren't so sad and disturbing, I would applaud their genius and craftsmanship and totality of their control without nary a peep or gripe from the majority of us. A bloodless reverse coup. A silent enslavement. A low-key fascism.
Absofreakinglutely Brilliant!
James in Colorado @ 46:
amazing that people think the planners are incompetent.
even after all their successes.
"You know what a chazzer is? That's a pig that don't fly straight."
constituent @ 44:
I don't know.
You'd have to ask one of Obama's foreign policy guru's, Zbigniew Brzezinski...
who pretty much laid out the Georgia gambit in his book the Grand Chessboard.
It also laid out that America wouldn't support foreign wars unless we were prodded into it like so much cattle without a devasting blow to the US, preferably a symbolic US icon.
lafin gas @ 39:
You are now formally entitled to be a completely amoral a-hole on a least one occasion. Enjoy your sin.
Peter G @ 23:
McTorturedLogic was against waterboarding, now he's for it, and the Pope was for Nazism and pederasty, now he's against it, and Mengele was a nazi who tortured and worked for Hitler (who allied with Stalin) and Torquemada was a Catholic, and etc. etc....still working on Genghis Khan connections...
;-}
Truth B Told @ 50:
i think i'll check with mccain's lobbyist team first...my guess it's more to do with the NEOCON paln...this is about resources
constituent @ 53:
It's always been about resources but the corporate fascists raised the bar for higher profits and more control. Now the Russians have to fight fire with fire.
Proud2bHumble @ 46:
If sinners are winners where's my medals? My collection should makes Phelps' look seedy. BTW. Hey dude longtime no see.
Proud2bHumble @ 52:
It's sort of like the internet. Try routing through Pol Pot.
.
Larry King Interviews Mikhail Gorbachev
Mikhail Gorbachev calls out the propaganda of the U.S. media as a misinformation campaign. "Lies from Beginning to End."
http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/bestoftv/2008/08/15/lkl.long.gorbachev.cnn
War in Georgia: The Israeli connection
Putin's Winning Hand:
Once the Atlantic Alliance is shattered, America's lifeline to the world is kaput
By Mike Whitney
There was no "Battle of Tskhinvali"; that's another fiction. A battle implies that there is an opposing force that is resisting or fighting back. That's not the case here. The Georgian army entered the city unopposed; after all, how can unarmed civilians stop armed units. Most of the townspeople had already fled across the border into Russia or hid in their basements while the tanks and armored vehicles rumbled bye firing at anything that moved.
What took place in South Ossetia last Thursday, was not an invasion or a siege; it was a massacre. The people had no way to defend themselves against a fully-equiped modern army. It was a war crime.
(continued)
Breaking: George Bush responsible for South Ossetia invasion
by a gnostic
Fri Aug 15, 2008
This is an outrage and of course begs the question: what exactly was the Bush administration's involvement in the instigation and lead-up to this invasion during the Olympics and right before an election.
This is of course classic "wagging the dog" before an election. And who has more motive than the criminal Bush administration to wag the dog?
(continued)
Peter G @ 56:
...ok, just give me a ho chi minute...
interesting opinion and maps about georgia and russian conflict
http://www.thepeoplesvoice.org/cgi-bin/blogs/voices.php/2008/08/13/the_b...
McOldDirty new Ronnie Raygun who was in SAG, so I guess Clint Eastwood, Tommy Lee Jones, Donald Sutherland and James Garner are off the hook for "Space Cowboys".
;-}
constituent @ 59:
thepeoplesvoice lost me when they tried to explain why Israel is responsible for the crisis in Georgia. My review: ill-informed demented opinion. Not at all interesting.
Peter G @ 61:
that's why i thought it was interesting...didn't say i agreed
thanks for your review i got a feeling you have a ph.d. in georgia/russia political/economic relations
...gotta go, it's been virtual...
"Last word, freak." - Melvin Udall
out
;-}
constituent @ 62:
Made no such claim. It doesn't take a PH.D to figure that Zionism has nothing to do with the Georgian crisis. It's just as likely to be chemtrails. Maybe they believe that too but I couldn't make myself read that far. Life's just too short.
Proud2bHumble @ 63:
Good night Humble One.
Peter G @ 64:
the problem for me is i can't prove israel not involved so i don't make a claim either way......that's why i said it's interesting i'm not that smart. just trying to find out but if you know 100% israel or AIPAC not involved your the better man....i glad i know now.
constituent @ 66:
Don't feel bad. Proving something doesn't exist is actually impossible. One can only prove existence by example. That's why we have various Faiths. With those you can believe anything.
And with that I'm out of here.
I hate her material,
but congratulations to Ellen DeGeneres for defying the odds.
Tequila @ 68:
good for them....it's their life....i'm also going to have to say they're both cuties
This stuff needs to be on television not just "youtube".
There is plenty of true dirt on McCain to bury him this November.
Will the Dems use any of it while lies are being broadcast about Obama?
Don't hold you breath because the so called Dem strategists(ha ha) think the American people are sick of this stuff and are smart.
LOL sad!
The US is not a superpower. It is a bankrupt farce run by imbeciles who were installed by stolen elections arranged by Karl Rove and Diebold.
Apparently, our trade embargo with Iran even extends to getting a basketball player.
Janet @ 8:
You're right, of course, but what the Republicans have understood for years is that attacks have to be subtle, indirect, and full of dog whistle codes. The conservatives haven't come right out and called him a 'scary young black man.' No, they use 'inexperienced' instead of 'young,' and they use 'exotic' instead of 'black.' If you run uncoded smear ads, you run the risk of creating SYMPATHY for the target of the attacks. Smearing somebody is an art that takes as much skill as cutting a diamond. It can easily backfire on you.
Wow, here's a shocker: the US government sold out somebody who worked for them, allowing them to be tortured and murdered, and then lied about it. Then again, the US lied about the No-geun Ri massacre.
http://www.mail.com/Article.aspx?articlepath=APNews%5CTop-Headlines%5C20...
Truth emerges too late for Kim Soo-im
Saturday, August 16, 2008 11:32:49 PM
By CHARLES J. HANLEY
Back in the days of "Commies" and "pinkos," of Red scares, black lists, suspicion and smear, Kim Soo-im stood out as a one-woman axis of evil, a villainess without peer.
"The Korean Seductress Who Betrayed America," as the U.S. magazine Coronet labeled her, was a Seoul socialite said to have charmed secret information out of one lover, an American colonel, and passed it to another, a top communist in North Korea.
[...]
Kim Soo-im and her love triangle are gone, buried in separate corners of a turbulent past. But in yellowing U.S. military files stamped "SECRET," hibernating through a long winter of Cold War, the truth survived. Now it has emerged, a half-century too late to save her.
The record of a confidential 1950 U.S. inquiry and other declassified files, obtained by The Associated Press at the U.S. National Archives, tell a different Kim Soo-im story:
Col. John E. Baird had no access to the supposed sensitive information. Kim had no secrets to pass on. And her Korean lover, Lee Gang-kook, later executed by North Korea, may actually have been an American agent.
[...]
"He (Baird) betrayed her," Cho said of Baird. "He had a high position and the power to save her. He could have testified. But he just flew back stateside to his American family."
[...]
Cho pointed out a little-known fact: In 1946, a year after the U.S. Army occupied southern Korea at World War II's end, a U.S. Embassy poll found that 77 percent of southerners wanted a socialist or communist future.
Instead, the U.S. military government kept many of Japan's right-wing Korean collaborators in power, and the U.S. commander, Lt. Gen. John R. Hodge, vowed to "stamp out" the communists.
Surely this is an isolated incident. The US wouldn't do this to people in Cuba, or Vietnam, or Hungary, or Czechoslovakia, or the Kurds Iraq, or other countries, would they?
Oh, that's right, they did. And those who gave the orders to murder innocents get to hide behind "Top Secret" labels and die unpunished, with survivors unwilling to lay appropriate blame after the guilty are dead.
I would lay off his capitulation to enemy torture. Hopefully few of us will have to walk in those moccasins. On the other hand, the ad states that 3 of his planes crashed. If this was directly related to his low grades and partying attitude what was the tax burden to the American taxpayer? Hopefully this practice of giving the unqualified elite such positions in the military has ended.
I have always had a problem imagining our current president behind the controls of a jet. He now has problems riding mountain bikes in the city(hit a policeman). Heck he has problems swallowing pretzels.
harley @ 27:
Yeah? In which crash?
Pakistan has a better opposition party than we do. More people dying in Afghanistan.
Russia's top military brass take lying lessons from us.
McCane's biggest moral failing: "The failure of my first marriage."
WTF? How about, "My failure to stay true to my vows of 'for better or worse, in sickness and in health'"?
Typical Rethug asswipe.
Congrats to Mark Phelps and the US swim team. Finally, a good two minutes of TV!
Got to "batten down the hatches" for TS Fay. Finally, I get to put that duct tape and plastic sheeting I bought after Nine O'leven to good use...
Pretty good ad against McCain
"Approval Ratings: The Public v. McCain"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gBfngOsvmA0&eurl
Simple yet effective. As Bushs approval rating plummets McCain votes more and more with Bush.
"Mr. (Jon) Stewart has said he is looking forward to the end of the Bush administration “as a comedian, as a person, as a citizen, as a mammal.”
harley @ 22:
Picture this, a tiny tin pot politician of a tiny country surounded by big boys,
listens to some some weasel politicians who promise him the world then dump on him.
Woundnt you eat your tie, crap yer pants and think 'fcuk why did I listen to McCain and Rice' !!!!
He got used and nows knows it, Bay of Pigs, Shia marsh Arabs, Kurds,
He got played like a cheap guitar.
galmud @ 79:
It should be seen on the Tee Vee during prime time.
Tequila @ 76:
Amusing that Pres. Musharuff is going to get impeached for a tiny fraction of the crimes of Bushco.
Chimpy is going to drunkenly wobble his way off into the sunset on his Segway,
humming that Republican song 'so long suckers, and thanks for all the fish'
Sure his wife can and will buy him the White House. To compound it, the electorate is stupid; how else did W get two chances to "F" things up? We're screwed as a nation.
Norton @6,
This is the TRUTH about McCain. You have a problem with the truth?
Furthermore, the repukes ARE going to do the same thing to Obama, already started. The difference is, 90% of the shit they say is an absolute lie! But when your policies only benefit people making $300,000 a year and up, you have to focus everyone else's attention on other things.
Unfortunately, taking the "high road" with psycopath's, will only get you President McCain.
Last nights "debate" is a good example of the short attention span of right wing evangelicals, even the young ones. Because McMcain says things in sound bites, very little substance, he was able to get the better applause. Obama tried to explain but their little brains turn off after a few seconds.
OK, now I might be cool with HRC as VEEP
Check out the 3rd video down the list about McCain-why media is silent? I know Mc Same!
http://www.wakeupfromyourslumber.com/node/6065
If it is not McCain as President,just watch Hillary take the hitching post.
The fix is in :^)
Best. Ad. Ever. It's not swiftboating it's the truth. Run this ad nationally and take the White House. Don't, and probably loose again.
You GOT IT...critical thinking has been killed in AMERICA...it begins in our schools...make them think there is "learning going on" by testing rote instruction and call that ACCOUNTABILITY...look for candidates that can memorize talking points and spew them even BEFORE the questions are asked...and you have a WINNER!!! Then confirmed by the paid for punditry that passes for a FREE PRESS in this country!
And I approve of that ad. It covers McCain's life and career. Yes Cindy paid for the man she wanted and is still paying today. We'll see if the White House is for sale as Bush and Cheney have put the for sale sign out for the rest of America. John McCain is a true example of what it takes to make it in America and a blue print to meeting your golds. McCain lies, cheats and leaves his wife and kids for a rich younger woman. Yes no need for American men to get an education or be a man on your own. Just marry a rich girl and the rest will take care of itself. Most woman buy clothes but Cindy brought a man.
A question the MSM should pose to McCain.
As a Captain in the Navy. Why weren't you given command of a aircraft carrier? Instead of a non-combat training squadron.
Seems like a smear.
What's fun about this ad is that the only arguments against it start with "But...but..."
Repukes can hem and haw on this ad, but McCain really was a horrible pilot, he really did collaborate with the North Vietnamese, he really did take bribes from Charles Keating, he really did dump his wife for a rich woman, he really has gotten preferential treatment his whole life, and so on.
Everything in that ad is not only true, but on closer scrutiny it looks even worse. John McCain should have been kicked out of the Senate for taking bribes. Such a poor military student should never have been allowed to pilot an airplane. At every turn John McCain's life has been propped up by family connections and corrupt allies in politics and business.
Picture George Bush, but shorter and angrier.
Wingnuts want footnotes and sources to back Plisko's viddy because they can't believe it's true. I don't see footnotes on the McCain smear ads. Hell, maybe some of these wingnuts might even go and do a little research and read something for a change.
Every time John McCain says "My friends..." an angel loses its wings.
OK. I think I'm seeing a problem here. Many of you (Janet @8, roooth @17, Christy Hannity @18, NoGWBpolicyleftinplace @85, and others) seem to equate negative ads with dishonest ads. You couldn't be more wrong.
An ad can be based on undisputed facts and still be negative. At the same time an ad can be based on half truths, distortions and flat out lies and still be positive.
Here are some true statements:
Michelle Obama said, "For the first time in my adult life I am proud of my country."
Jerimiah Wright, Obama's "spiritual mentor" for twenty years said, "God damn America".
Barak Obama was taught in a Muslim school.
Barak Obama's middle name is Hussein, just like Saddahm's.
Each one of these is true, but do you really think for a second that an ad that mentioned them would be anything other than negative?
An ad's negativity is based on its overall tone and message, not it's accuracy or honesty. Big difference.
Now, some of you may think that it's OK to go negative, and that's fine. I, myself, think there are some very good arguments to be made for negative ads, but as I said in my first post, if you feel that it's OK to run this ad or ones like it, then you've surrendered any claim to be outraged or offended by negative ads against you candidates whoever they may be.
#98 Bill,
Anything can be true when taken out of context.
... NO?
Bill Norton @ 98:
Welll, stupid us. Please do enlighten us, concerned and reasonable superior clear thinker...
Ooooh, ya almost had it...Especially if the facts are negative, in which case the ad can be entirely true, like this one. Or, "an ad can be based on undisputed facts" taken out of context and/or presented in a misleading way with other opinions mixed in, like the following examples:
Ya see where ya went off the logic track here, doncha? In your concerned distaste for 'negativity', you've failed to include out-of-context misleading conclusions in your arguments re accuracy and honesty.
...unless they're based on lies, distortions, quotes out-of-context or misleading conclusions, if that's alright with you? Now, if you could point to any examples of the above in this ad, you would have a valid argument, but so far you haven't, and you don't.
"My name is 2b, and I approve of the tone of this comment."
lol
;-}
Dems would be far better off giving their hard-earned money to the folks who did the video above, and those that did this video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gBfngOsvmA0&eurl
than giving the money to the Mark Penn-type ass-hats inhabiting Obama's campaign. These guys/gals could take their already excellent videos and perfect them for television. And that would be $50 million fewer going into the pockets of the campaign idiots.
The only problem is, Dems would have to find a way to shut Obama's mouth so he can't go on t.v. afterwards and condemn the makers of these ads, thus shooting himself in the foot yet again.
Bill Norton Says: So you like this ad, eh? Fine then, but I don’t want to hear any whining when negative ads are directed at Obama. If it’s OK for us to do it to them, then it’s OK for them to do it to us.
Myself, I think it’s a poorly done spot that will piss off McCain supporters and will go unnoticed and forgotten by everyone else.
This is not something to be proud of.
******************************
THERE IS A BIG DIFERENCE BETWEEN TRUTH AND FICTION...THIS IS TRUTH...MCCAIN'S ADS ON OBAMA ARE 99% FICTION. ANY QUESTIONS?
Looks like McCain is as much of a loser as W. Bush is. McCain's "war hero" status is the only thing he has going for him. Both these guys would never have accomplished anything without family connections and money. Pretty scary to think that people this incompetent can make it to the top of the heap, especially when conservatives are supposed to be all about "survival of the fittest".
This stuff reminds of a joke I read about Canadian Conservatives. The Conservative Party is like cream; rich, thick and full of clots.
Proud2bHumble @ 100:
Really, if you can't grasp the concept that negativity is not the same thing as dishonesty, I'm afraid I can't help you.
Thank you.
Bill Norton @ 104:
Agreed, if you insist on conflating out-of-context quotes and intentionally misleading 'conclusions' with an irony laden negative factual ad, you are helplessly grasping at strawmen, and aren't capable of helping anyone. If I had said that negativity is the same as dishonesty, you'd have a valid point, but I didn't, and you stiiiillllll don't.
"My name is 2b, and I approve of the tone and facts of this comment."
lol
;-}
Good work.
Bill Norton @ 6:
Are you kidding me?
After smearing Clinton, Kerry, Max Cleland, 9/11 widows, 12 year old kids who speak up for health care. . after walking around with smirks at the Republican convention wearing purple heart bandaids. . .
After all that ugly, nasty, mocking, dark, shit. . . you are going to get all high and mighty and tell me I AM PROVOKING YOU with my video?
This is a Republican attack add aimed at a Republican. Eat your friggin lumps. . .
oops. . I meant to change that to "they can eat their friggin lumps."
RE: #108 and preceding on dirty tactics
The difference between what we do and the work Atwood and Rove and their like should be that the facts we present should be accurate. They just make up what they think people will buy into (the folks they target) and that there won't be time or place to refute.
I'm interested in this information, but it's only useful if there are footnotes and I can access the sources of this information. Otherwise it is just the same sort of garbage coming out of the SwiftBoaters etc.
UhcNow@yahoo @ 110:
I did this video as if it was a Republican attack add aimed at a Republican. The comment I responded to is acting as if Republicans have been angels all this time and now this video of mine gives us no reason to complain about what they do. My position is that this is a defense to what they do. This is fire with fire. The Democrats think they are fencing while the Republicans are in a gunfight. We can stand around and say how awful their tactics are as we get shot or we can build a better gun and use their tactics against them in a stronger way. In my case I didn't use falsehoods or innuendo. I used facts that have already been put out their for consideration. That is the Achilles heel of Republicans. Most of them have so much REAL dirt on them that we could use their tactics without ever lying. The only thing stopping us are the pearl clutching members of our crowd who would rather complain than win. I submit that these tactics used against Democrats will ALWAYS win unless we embrace them and make them our own as self defense. People of good conscience don't like to play dirty. Fair enough. We also don't like to go to war or get violent but, at times, self defense leaves us no choice. To borrow Lincoln's language: The high road is not a suicide pact.
A web video is a bad place for footnotes but I have provided my sources in the comments for the videos.
Most of it comes from the body of common knowledge. Wikipedia seems to catalog that info very well with loads of footnotes for the sources. The other source I used is The US Veteran Dispatch which is an advocacy group for POW/MIA families and has criticized both Kerry and McCain as well as swift boater Bud Day because of their actions in the senate to shut down the efforts of the POW families in the name of normalizing relations with Vietnam.
McArrogant!
I disagree with your ad where you say sorry john your wife can't buy you this house it's just been done twice in the last two elections so what are you saying
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