McCain's embrace of 'Judeo-Christian values'
By Steve Benen Monday Aug 18, 2008 8:04pmAt Saturday night’s event at Saddleback Church, John McCain told the largely evangelical audience a version of history that the religious right likes to believe: “Our nation was founded on Judeo-Christian values and principles.”
That is, to put it mildly, historically dubious — the nation was founded on the secular principles, as part of the separation of church and state — but it’s nevertheless a phrase McCain seems to be especially fond of lately.
On a frozen winter evening at a Town Hall meeting in a school in the Manchester, N.H., suburbs, John McCain expressed surprise and irritation with an intelligence report downplaying the threat of Iran’s nuclear program.
At the end of a long list of reasons to be suspicious of the Iranians, McCain declared: “And they sure don’t share our Judeo-Christian values.”
It seemed at the time to be an odd thing to say about a Muslim country. After all, even if there were no nuclear program, no oil, and no rabble-rousing president, Iran still wouldn’t have Judeo-Christian values. And it’s troubling to wonder if that alone would be a reason for suspicion.
Quite right. For McCain to characterize our hostility for a rival nation in such starkly religious terms reminds us that when it comes to foreign policy, McCain frequently doesn’t know what he’s talking about.
But it’s that phrase that continues to stand out. The Boston Globe dug around a bit and noticed that McCain references “Judeo-Christian values” all the time, when talking about policies as varied as the economy, immigration, and foreign policy.
McCain, the Globe noted, seems to use the term as a synonym for “American values.” That’s really not a good idea.
McCain’s view of American power harkens back to the World War II era, when the United States held the moral high ground as liberator. He is a staunch interventionist, both on humanitarian and national-security grounds.
To most of the world, especially in Muslim nations, there is an enormous difference between standing up for freedom and standing up for Judeo-Christian values, but McCain conflates the two. And sometimes, his use of the term seems more than accidental.
“This just wasn’t the elimination of a threat to Iraq - this was elimination of a threat to the West, part of this titanic struggle we are in between western Judeo-Christian values and principles and Islamic extremists,” McCain said in 2006, after the killing of Al Qaeda in Iraq leader Abu Musab al-Zarqawi.
“The number one issue people should make [in the] selection of the president of the United States is, ‘Will this person carry on in the Judeo-Christian principled tradition that has made this nation the greatest experiment in the history of mankind?’ ” he told Beliefnet last year.
On Saturday, in arguing for a strong defense of Georgia in its struggles with Russia, McCain twice noted that Georgia is a Christian nation - perhaps to distinguish it from other crumbling pieces of the former Soviet Union that are Muslim, such as Chechnya and Azerbaijan.
Such comments may pass unnoticed by most American voters and may be reassuring to some religious Christians and Jews. They may even go over well with some secular Americans who are pleased that he is using more inclusive language than some members of the religious right.
But his repeated invocation of “Judeo-Christian values” is sure to stick in the ears of Muslims, Hindus, Buddhists, and people of other non-Christian, non-Jewish faiths. And they’re sure to be asking themselves: Just what is McCain trying to tell us?
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Judeo
Judeo
Daylight come and me wanna go home
Christian values are overrated.
They smite, they cheat, they lie.
Anything they can do to stay on top.
Jesus wept!
If God really wanted Christianity to be number 1, why didn't he make more of them. What are they like 33% of the world population. That's a lot of heathens to slaughter to move up.
They smite? Oh, that tears it, then.
What did we expect? The maverick threw his so-called independant style under the bus to suck up to the religious fanatics. It just proves to me the Republican brand has been totally tarnished. Do Americans really want thr religious right to shape policy? Of course not. But then again, Many Americans are ignorant and stupid. They will let fear dictate all they're decisions. Sad, really.
pffftt.. . . .
Fuck fear.
What, Me Worry?
(h/t A.E. Newman)
If this country was founded on Judeo-Christian values, then why are only two of the ten commandments against the law?
Billy Ogawa @ 6:
Er, I mean, enforced by the law.
As an Abrahamic faith, Islam surely gets credit for the Judeo- portion of Juedo-Christian values, doesn't it? I know Christians throw the "Judeo-" in to sound less bigoted, but clearly the beef is with non-Christians in general.
He wants to lead the next crusade...
He wants to be a modern day Crusader... Leading the Anglo-Christians to conquer the Brown infidels.
lame, and what a shame for a potential leader in the 21st century...this IS the "21st century", right?
I am jewish, and sick and tired of "christians" making reference to non-existent "judeo-christian values". We do not share the same values, because we, jews, do not subscribe to an old and a new testament. We follow the Torah (the 5 Books of Moses). It is not the old testament, nor is it an old testament.
I truly wish that someone in the media would call them out on trying to conflate christianity with judaism. We can all believe as we want, or not. But stop trying to inflate your sense of righteousness by saying that I am my fellow religionists share your values.
Jay Severin Has A Small Pen1s @ 2:
The utter paucity and emptiness of your ideas has me weeping.
Jesus wept? Did he even know you should never put t after p? pffffpt . . . er . . .
Billy Ogawa @ 6:
If reason played any part in public discourse: o snap.
Not prejudging other people's values is probably a Judeo-Christian value.
How many more people have to be killed before they understand our Judeo-Christian values?!
Sad@10, Is Florida going to blow it for Obama? What is the feeling there? I just can't understand McCain appeal. Is McCain leading Obama? Or are all the polls full of crap? Why, oh why, are Americans going to vote for another Repug?
Billy Ogawa @ 7:
I ass/u/me you're referring to the commandments against theft and murder, but the commandment against lying is also enforced under certain circumstances not involving members of the Bush administration.
Perhaps that is why he was against intervention in Kosovo. Not Judeo-Christian enough to his liking.
Sad in South Fla @ 10:
I go for the Judeo-Hindu values, myself. Occasionally I dabble in Islamo-Buddhist values.
P.D. @ 15:
Who was it that defined insanity as doing the same thing over and over, but expecting a different result?
War forever! That's McCain's platform. Kill them all and all of us with economic depression ala Milton Friedman shock therapy.
I have a better idea. Round up all neocons and send them to a small desert island somewhere, preferably one that is sinking due to global warming, and let them lord it over each other for the short time they have left.
Maybe the rest of us can actually survive without their "help."
There is a group of Americans who think theocratic government is what America needs.
There is currently only one stable theocracy in the industrialized world.
And these same Americans who want a theocracy in America want to destroy the other one, saying it is totalitarian, anti-democratic, and evil.
Am I the only one who sees the pure hypocrisy here?
Mmm...let me think...are there any other countries that don't share these "Judeo-Christian" principles...
Oh yeah. How about that great "ally" and beacon of freedom and justice, Saudi Arabia.
In fact it's illegal for a Saudi to be either "Judeo" or Christian.
Whereas there are thousands of Jews and Christians living in relative peace in Iran. (As there were also in Iraq pre-Bush.)
Just another day in upsidedown make-believe right-wing whacko world.
Seems to me they are ignoring quite a bit of the writings of Madison and Jefferson. Hitchens has covered the topic well in his latest collection of writings by various authors.
Of course for folks who want to believe what they want to believe, no amount of facts are going to change their minds.
I cannot imagine politicians here in Canada (or any other 'western' country) saying such things, the American political climate seems more similar to Iran or Pakistan than anything I've been involved with. We seem to get on with issues that affect all segments of society more or less and move forward together. Again, all politics are local so, wtf do I know.
If someone doesn't subscribe to
Israeli/EvangelicalJudeo/Christan values (i.e. onward Christian soldiers on Likkud's behalf) then they are obviously un-American and should be attacked. Forget about actual intelligence which definitively states Iran is no threat to the U.S.; listen to our bosses in Tel Aviv. They say "jump;" neo-cons say "how high?" Forget also that the vast majority of both Jews and Christians radically disagree. Just remember that: "Cheney is God, and Kristol is his prophet." Neo-cons are "good" and those who disagree are "evil."He just doesn't know WHAT the hell he's talking about. It's pathetic. He's like a parrot. He picks up things that sounds good and he repeats them. It frequently gets him into trouble, but he is so minimally interested in the actual job of being president, that he can't be bothered to actually inform himself.
That America could seriously be considering this man as commander in chief is stunning. When is Obama going to start exposing him for what he is? Nothing more than a man obsessed with the trappings of being president, with the success of winning the election. He is no more interested in the actual job, or of what he could bring to the job, or of how he might improve conditions in this country, than is my dog.
On second thought, my dog would do a better job. He's smarter. McCain's approval ratings do not bode well for the republic.
If John McSenile is a Christian, then I’m the pope. The religious right still doesn’t realize that they are being used. Proof positive of their stupidity.
Steve- all I can add is ....A-Meeyun, Brotha!... Unless of course I suggest that he truly shone his Jew-Christ-lak 'vehl-yews' there when he coveted sweet Cindy back when- or might I say she coveted him- and ol' McTaint went along just fine against his then-established sacramental vows. Surprised they both haven't yet been subjected to some sort of stoning ritual. (Just one example of his megalomaniacal convictions to wit)
i heard him say that, and it got my ire up, but all things considered, unfortunately it got left behind... i'd be reminded and think, "oh yea! how could i forget that!"...
and so it's a perfect excuse to post one of my favorite articles... i wish she would put out that book she promised when interviewed by al franken... it's badly needed.
Our Godless Constitution
By Brooke Allen
This article appeared in the February 21, 2005 edition of The Nation.
It is hard to believe that George Bush has ever read the works of George Orwell, but he seems, somehow, to have grasped a few Orwellian precepts. The lesson the President has learned best--and certainly the one that has been the most useful to him--is the axiom that if you repeat a lie often enough, people will believe it. One of his Administration's current favorites is the whopper about America having been founded on Christian principles. Our nation was founded not on Christian principles but on Enlightenment ones. God only entered the picture as a very minor player, and Jesus Christ was conspicuously absent.
Our Constitution makes no mention whatever of God. The omission was too obvious to have been anything but deliberate, in spite of Alexander Hamilton's flippant responses when asked about it: According to one account, he said that the new nation was not in need of "foreign aid"; according to another, he simply said "we forgot." But as Hamilton's biographer Ron Chernow points out, Hamilton never forgot anything important.
In the eighty-five essays that make up The Federalist, God is mentioned only twice (both times by Madison, who uses the word, as Gore Vidal has remarked, in the "only Heaven knows" sense). In the Declaration of Independence, He gets two brief nods: a reference to "the Laws of Nature and Nature's God," and the famous line about men being "endowed by their Creator with certain inalienable rights." [...]
http://www.thenation.com/doc/20050221/allen
so worth the read!
Maybe he meant "Judas Christian values".
How is it that the Republicans nominate a guy for president who is SO STUPID regarding foreign relations... after a two-term presidency by a guy who was ALSO SO STUPID regarding foreign relations?
We MUST NOT let them get away with this AGAIN!
mcAssJacket: I concoct any excuse for war. after all, boosh's friends make a whole lot of money on it.
Even if McCain doesn't know what he's talking about, a disturbing fraction of Americans wouldn't know the difference.
Japan doesn't have "our" "judeo-Christian values", and yet they are doing fine. Could it be that morals and values can be taught independently of Judeo-Christianity? My goodness, the thought boggles the mind. /snark
saddleback church....
isn't that jeff gannon's and larry craig's church. sure sounds like it!
Which Judeo-Christian values are those? The old testament angry smiting jealous god? You've got to admit the old god was something of a malicious prick till he took those anger management classes The peaceful tolerance shtick of God Jr. doesn't really seem like McCain's style.
The "Judeo-Christian" thing is disturbing, we're supposed to practice Greaco-Roman values in our public lives & pick whatever private system of values we think best, at least that seems pretty obvious from an objective reading of the founding documents.
Even then the particular situation with Iran would be the same because of their horrible Persian ways & we'd be calling all sorts of leaders to summit meetings at Thermopylae.
Roket @ 27:
The religious right is more about right-wing politics than religion. They show no interest at all in solving problems related to poverty or social injustice, and are quite supportive of war and many other acts of violence.
These people are just hateful reactionaries who use the local religion as an easy way to organize. They're literally no different than the 'Muslim extremists' they're so afraid of.
"Greaco-Roman values"? Does that mean we can only torture from the waist up? Why do you hate our troops?
Peter G @ 36:
Such sacriledge- The likes of which you're certainly doomed to burn in the fires of hell, sweet Peety!
P.D. @ 15:
I really think that the polls are full of crap. It's the blame game, we fix the election and blame the public it is the perfect bamboozle. The question is will we let them do it to us again. Diebold has never been fixed and anyone who saw Recount knows it is alot worse than any of us imagined even if only 10% of that movie is true it leaves me questioning the so-called democracy in which will leave. Take the blue or the red pill we are in the MATRIX.
"Such comments ... may even go over well with some secular Americans who are pleased that he is using more inclusive language than some members of the religious right."
That line is the dumbest supposition I have read all day.
Too bad the United States doesn't operate according to Judeo-Christian values because if it did then McCain would have been stoned to death for adultery when he was cheating on his wife. One can only wish.
UselessOlHofromNO @ 40:
As a devout follower of the Flying Spaghetti Monster I have no fears. In our eternal home we have beer volcanoes and a stripper factory. What more does a human need.
FeedUp @ 41:
Silly ol' paranoia- the kind Western Yerpeans are so fond of when observing our sterling democracy- you should take that lovely chill pill, and don't worry your beautiful mind over such trivialities, dear.... Sleep- sleep- sleeeep....
can someone show me where in good judeao-christian values it says that its ok to fuck around on your first wife and support a country killing thousands for no good reason?
just curious
Peter G @ 44:
K! Count me in as a convert honey....and let's fly!
If America was founded as some sort of Christian nation, how does one explain the first treaty unanimously ratified by the U.S. Senate, the Treaty of Tripoli? It expressly states that, since we are NOT a Christian nation, there is not reason for us to not have good relations with Muslims.
Once again, the facts get in the way of the right wing's story line.
Obama says the deeds, not just the words, are what matters.
McBush was kissing so much Saturday night he needed knee pads.
I't's a full time job debunking right wing lies and myths.
"A camel's chance of getting through the eye of a needle are greater than a rich man's chance of getting into heaven"
Sorry fat cat Republicans, you're all going to hell.
j swift @ 51:
There has been that much pandering to the Christofascists since George Bush when asked said his favorite philosopher was "Jesus Christ".
They don't call em CONservatives for nothing.
I hate to break it to everyone, but ISLAM IS Judeo Christian values.
It is a direct branch of the Judeo Christian tree with Abraham as the trunk. Many of the values dictated in the Koran are Judeo Christian in origin including the 10 commandments which I believe are in the Koran word for word.
"Judeo-Christian values and principles"
Oh boy.
Yes it was founded on these values but it was also founded on secular values, enlightenment values, Irish values, English values, Welsh values, Scottish values, classic values, American values, frontier values, caribbean values, German values, French values, and Dutch values.
Why is all this religious horseshit in our political discourse? Power, of course, exploited by repuglies and now by obama. It's a good way not to have to discuss important issues, of which the repuglies have none to discuss, and obama is too inexperienced and unknowledgable. So religious horseshit is just fine to fill the space. Just when will we get a leader who will take us back to the promised land of our democracy? Someone who will drive out the fakes, and liars, and the worthless jackasses who steal our precious time. Including of course the obamas, pelosis, the warrens and all the other sorry excuses for leadership that we have.
Warning. Warning. McCain reaching Pander Level Red.
The 'born again' christians (using the 70's vernacular), are sheep which need to belong to a herd, for peace of mind. They are lost by themselves. This was learned by the world's predators for centuries. The manipulation, and/or dominance by the predators, forms the basis of modern sales and marketing. That is what these mega churches are; marketing venus.
Psychopaths like Fallwell, Hagee, Robertson, etc., are really little better than Jim Jones. Yet, they figured out how to use their 'sheep' as political attack dogs. They have their finger in every pie, including US foreign policy. Until we find a way to surgically remove this cancer, we will not be able regain real American values. The challenge, of course, is to do it, so that it does no harm to traditional Christians. They are not the ones to blame here.
fiver @ 26:
nice job!, you basically took those words from my mouth and crafted them ever-so artfully! :)
It's just code:
"My friends, like you, my brain has come loose from its moorings, and if it weren't for my handlers, I would be standing here with both hands down the front of my pants, singing the wholesome, Pat Boone versions of Little Richard songs. Luckily, my friends, I am on enough Ambien, Jim Beam, and Ensure to settle me down to speak with you here about the anti-christ, Senator Hussein Obama". [GRIMACE AT CAMERA]
Yeah, it's been a long day, and that's an odd thing to write, but I was just sitting here imagining what fate will befall my nice new TeeVee if that perpetually pandering son of a bitch McCain gets elected. It's bad enough that his horrible voice is going to be all over media-land for the next few months... but if he becomes PRESIDENT? Good grief. I'll have to block all the goddamn news channels.
Not just Four More Years... Four WORSE Years is what we'll get. My friends.
This Machine Kills Fascists @ 61:
yES.... mY fRIENDS- mY fRIENDS-mY fRIENDS- mY fRIENDS- mY fRIENDS- mY fRIENDS- mY fRIENDS......My oh my!.......M F'ers!!
59
MacDaKnife Says: Psychopaths like Fallwell, Hagee, Robertson, etc., are really little better than Jim Jones.
I would argue that they are worse--they're still alive. At least Jones and his followers have moved along.
Well, forgive me if this has been mentioned, but the Abrahamic traditions are all the same and share the same common plot point -- Abraham. As well as his sons, don't forget those sons, they are the easiest way to recall the difference between factions of Islam. Bottom line is, there is one God, and his prophet doesn't exclude people linguistically.
If he had wanted to say that Judaism and Christianity, even the f**ked up forms which meet in stadiums, were equal under one word, then the man ought to have mentioned the father of any of the brothers or relatives involved in this story. Semantically, "judeo-christian" does discount the people who refer to God as Allah. Since He is the same Lord, then it is worse than violating water-cooler etiquette to fail to identify a common basis for understanding of those who share our history and to, further, blatantly exclude others semantically as our brothers and family. Peace reigns among those who recognize each other as a relative.
Also, the Cranky one can't defeat the Fresh one, but a Fresh one can't lose to an Organiser -- let's see some spirit!
- - nope, the Christian ten commandments are nowhere in the Qu'ran, Plisko. The "Golden Rule" is decipherable anywhere, but Moses is only mentioned in a couple books.
shockingly, the Union Trib in San Diego published a letter from me about that so called interview:
Once again, the bar is lowered on political discourse. It's pretty sad that the two leading candidates for president of the United States feel they need to genuflect in front of some mega-church preacher in Orange County. It's embarrassing that this 21st-century Elmer Gantry is even taken seriously in our great state, let alone the nation. This crowd has been given enough time to try and infect public policy with its ideas. The time for this to stop is now.
http://www.signonsandiego.com/uniontrib/20080819/news_lz1e19lets.html
Why the F*CK does Obama get on the stomp and declares Multi-Mansion loves America just as much as he does?
What the F*CK is the purpose of saying that????
Will the Democrats ever learn how to be the opposition????
someguy @ 56:
No, it was not founded on Judeo-Christian values according to its founders -
' The United States is in no sense founded upon the Christian doctrine.' – George Washington, Treaty of Tripoli, http://tinyurl.com/4wky4
And it was James Madison --author of the First Amendment, indeed, the Bill of Rights --who penned the very words: ' Congress shall pass no law respecting an establishment of religion...'
' The United States of America have exhibited, perhaps, the first example of governments erected on the simple principles of nature; and if men are now sufficiently enlightened to disabuse themselves of artifice, imposture, hypocrisy, and superstition, It ill never be pretended that any persons employed in that service had interviews with the gods, or were in any degree under the influence of heaven, more than those at work upon ships or houses, or laboring in merchandise or agriculture; it will forever be acknowledged that these governments were contrived merely by the use of reason and the senses.' – John Adams
fiver @ 26:
ya...israel runs our foreign policy
jews run hollywood
we control all the banks too
so please explain to me, why i struggle to pay my bills every month
there are racists on both sides of the aisle
i dont mind this shit coming from wingnuts, they dont know better
you should be ashamed of yourself
What gives with the 10 commandments?
Don't murder, commit adultery, steal, lie, covet neighbor's house and/or wife.
Is anyone saying that these things were not values before Moses?
ronhohn @ 69:
Not to some people no.
There is a Christian tradition in Iraq that has been there for over a thousand years. What an ignoramus.
Iran too.
Gregory @ 65:
I could have sworn I read them in the Q'ran when I was studying it but maybe not. . they are at least represented there:
The 10 commandments in the Qu'ran
enough @ 21:
Bob Geldof - The Great Song of Indifference
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=it45ankt0Ds
UselessOlHofromNO @ 29:
You mean this McTaint? Hah! Truth is stranger than satire.
So they are saying this nation was founded on the Puritans and Quackers?
The Puritans must have won out in their minds>
So what if other countries do not share with us our Judeo Christian values?! Christians are not the majority on this planet,and Jews are a small minority, but we have to learn to live with everybody and every nation around this globe.
Not everybody in America is also a Christian or a Jew.
We should treat people with respect under the law...a law that binds us all in this country and an international law and respect to each others cultures and faiths.
McCain words are not encouraging, specially when we have over 1.4 billion Moslems in 57 countries to deal and live with and almost 2/3 of this planet do not share our same religion.
McCain game of trying to play the re- born Christian in the eyes of religious Conservatives might not help him overhere or abroad.
He is going to anger a good percentage of Americans who are not Christians or Jews, and a good percentage who are not religious at all by keep repeating this. He supposed to be a president who is elected by all taxpayers to represent all Americans but not one group or branch.
McCain is doing the opposite of what the founders of this nation had in mind when they built the foundation of this nation.
At the end of a long list of reasons to be suspicious of the Iranians, McCain declared: “And they sure don’t share our Judeo-Christian values.”
That's what has always puzzled me about organized religion.
If you don't believe what we believe then we will wipe you out. All brought to you in the name of whatever god we pray to.
Does McSame want to bring back the Crusades?!?!?!?!
TakeOurCountryBack @ 79:
Daniel Dennett's "Breaking the Spell" explains this fairly easily. The reason that religions try to wipe each other out is because they're competing for the same resource - human brains. The religions that didn't try to wipe out other ones, at least historically, became extinct. But there's still vestigial elements in most religions that can elicit this sort of rhetoric. When you start looking at religions as natural phenomena, things start making sense.
I'm sort of glad I don't share McCain's Judeo-Christian values. That would mean I'd support torture and warfare.
Judeo-Christian values? Last time I heard, Christ was Jewish! What am I missing here? Isn't precisely this what the problem is about? They are so confused! People do not know what they are talking about!
Isn't it obvious that this McCain character is a dangerous religious fanatic as Bush is?
I will tell you guys I feel for you - If McCain wins the next election he will not only f.ck your country up (as Bush did), but he will continue in f.cking the whole world up (same as Bush).
The fact that this guy (McCain) still has a chance to win in elections, is beyond all understanding.
Icelander @ 81:
This is to put it plainly, but limit the role of religion to an ideological tool for its own propagation. History evidences that religion is more often used as a tool of those that aren't "believers" to control those that are. Wretched people like Mr McCa1n invoke dogma not to spread its values, but for political purposes ONLY. He would not use the same analogy for launching an attack on Venezuela. So I'm not sure Prof. Dennett's argument as you put it is wholly correct, because it seems to me "ideological struggles" are not always rooted in ideology per se.
I could have sworn I read them in the Q’ran when I was studying it but maybe not. . they are at least represented there:
_______________________________________________
For those who do not understand: Christianism, the follower of Christ and Muslims, followers of Mohammed are both Abrahamic religions; their objective: Total control economic, political and spiritual. One, under covertly means, the other, with open violence. Basically, the objectives are the same. Hit the history books. The smartest are the Jews Same objectives but different procedures. Study hard. Work hard. Safe like hell. That's why, they are always in charge.
"Judeo-Christian" is a word that shouldn't even exist. Christianity owes more to the mystery religions of Rome and other pagan traditions than it does to Judaism. For example: celestial omens of a virgin birth, the Son of God, sacrifice of the sacred king, resurrection, etc., etc.
Yeah, let's fan those flames of intolerance, McCain... great friggin' idea.
There aren't enough wars in the world, clearly.
Religion is the root of the worst evil!
I think it's fairly clear, particularly in the context routinely used by McSame, that Judeo-Christian means Christian. Anyone who values separation should take no comfort in this whether Jew or Christian. It reeks of a crusade.
For much of the last 2,000 years, a primary Christian value has been to think of the Judeos as Christ-killers, Christian-baby-blood-eaters, and literal demons. This Christian value became slightly less fashionable in 1945.
Judeo-Christian values, indeed.
89 Rusty The One Shackleford
Are Judeos a Israeli brand of Orios cookies?
Robin @ 85:
It follows not just the myths of solar gods and soterology but also Dionysian dramaturgy.
Agon The revealing of the divine child
Threnos Terror before the divine event
Pathos The Divne event, a battle that kills the hero, a fatal accident, the beddng of the high-priestess, his human sacrifice.
Anagnoresis Ritual wailing and lamentation of the women for the fallen hero.
Apotheosis The heroes assimilation into the Godhead.
ronhohn @ 70:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4TAtRCJIqnk
Here's the secret, christians change (or make up) the rules as they go along. Since there really isn't any god or son jesus, there is no one to enforce it, or confirm anything. And they have declared their game the only one in town, Nice gig.
The "Judeo-Christian principles" myth is further debunked when one realizes that the huge majority of the US' Founding Fathers were Deists , not Christians ...........
Scott @ 9:
In fact the Christian God as the "Swiss Army knife" of Gods is far from either the God of Islam or Judaism.
It's apparent that one of the major Judeo-Chrisitan values is to proselytize around the world in an attempt to change everyone else into Christians.
Imperialism dressed in religious garb.
Perhaps if McSame had knowledge of the Cyrus Cylinder he might rethink Persia's heritage and the birthplace of the idea of human rights. Most people in Iran are Persians (not Arabs) and have a deep affection for their role in history prior to the Islamic conversion of its people in the 8th Century AD.
Uncle Joe Mccarthy @ 69:
See the discussion is not about Judaism, but about Zionism. The two are totally different. Just like you have Christians and Southerners, you have Muslims and Wahhabis, you have Jews and Zionists.
Catch my jist or am I going to be labeled anti semitic?
Allen McDonald, El Galloviejo® @ 68:
However the men who wrote the DOI where largly Christian.
In fact one was a reverend.
AS A JUDEO.... could John THE BUSH REPUBLICAN McCain please leave THE JUDEOS alone.... he ain't one of us... we don't want him.... we don't even want his JUDEO FRIEND LIARMAN and wish he would convert and find Jesus.
The only religon either of these guys believe in is ..... doublespeak.....
Prince Charming: You! You can't lie! Where is Shrek?
Pinocchio: Well, uh, I don't know where he's not.
Prince Charming: You don't know where Shrek is?
Pinocchio: On the contrary,
Prince Charming: So you do know where he is!
Pinocchio: I'm possibly more or less not definitely rejecting the idea that I undeniably
Prince Charming: Stop it!
Pinocchio: Do or do not know where he shouldn't probably be. If that indeed wasn't where he isn't!
ysbaddaden @ 91:
Ha! If not, they should be. Good one, ysb.
99 Sam
When one starts wanking on empty they say they're anti-semenic.
Judeo-Christian values......
It's code for evangelicals, especially when McCain references Muslims or Iraq, for a holy Christian crusade to exterminate religions that do not worship the one true god. In other words, a war that pits good (Christians) against evil (Muslims and others.)
It's the sick mentality of evangelicals that placates their Medieval minds.
WE ALL LOVE A LITTLE BUSH @ 101:
OH no Joe's all yours
Judeo Christian values. Like dropping bombs and torturing. Go Jesus!!!
St. McCain is utterly pathetic. He's so desperate to be the next president he has thrown his Maverick reputation out the window in order to suck-up to the fundamentalist Christians. What an f-ing loser.
And I'm sure Jesus and his Judeo-Christian values would have been as big a warmongerer as St. McCain is.
Frybread @ 107:
That's something I'll never understand about the unreligious right.
It's as if they all skipped thr sermon on the mound.
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