What's with the Miss Congeniality remark several times from McSame?

Did senile grandpa forget that he picked Ms. Congeniality as his running mate?

THREETH

In the 13 years David Moore worked for the Gallup Poll, he learned that media polls are not used to uncover the “will” or thoughts of the public, but rather to manufacture a “public opinion”
http://www.newswise.com/p/articles/view/544442/

The Dem stimulus plan. WAMU gets whammed.
Renewable bags aren't.
The feds overestimated economic growth in the spring. Undecideds are being helped by the Bush economy into leaning Obama.

Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice recently became the first Bush administration official to admit that high-level discussions of the use of torture had taken place in 2002 and 2003.
http://rawstory.com/news/2008/Torture_film_director_discusses_White_Hous...

WHERE'S MCCAIN'S FLAGGGGG PIIINNNN!

Dave
Viet Vet

This debate was very disturbing.

My main problem is with 2 lies that both candidates seemed to have no problem perpetuating as fact.

First being the "Iran wants to wipe Israel off the face of the Earth". This is a ridiculous and already proven to be completely inaccurate translation of what was said by the Ahlotoflettersinhisname Iranian President.

Second, is how both candidates referred to Russia as the "aggressor" in the Georgian conflict. This is just a flat out lie. Georgia was the aggressor, Georgia (most likely with US support) chose the Olympic opening ceremonies as the time to push in S. Ossetia and murder Russian peacekeeping troops. Russia worked all weekend to try and call for emergency Un meetings, to no avail. And on the following Monday, us sheeple wake up to the headline of "Russia Invades Georgia".

There were ofcourse other lies being thrown around all night, but these 2 in particular really stuck with me.

How can we expect any change in the Imperial foreign policy position that the US has adopted, when the "change" and "maverick" candidates are already setting the table for disaster?

This is akin to the Saddam/9-11 ties. A known lie already being put in the public consciousness to set a pretext for yet another upcoming illegal invasion.

How did our country get so far out of control?

How Wall Street can bail itself out.

L.A. Confidential @ 8:

{{{{DRUDGE POLL}}}} WHO WON THE FIRST PRESIDENTIAL DEBATE?...

MCCAIN
70% 74,803
OBAMA
28% 30,251

Fair and Balanced

About as balanced as my 99 year old grandmother.

Ok, my grandmother isn't with us any longer, but neither is any substance in that poll.

Life is but a Dream

I've been a fan of Crooks and Liars for years but I've never actually clicked on an "open thread". I've always assumed it was just that, an open thread. And I like to stay on topic.

Because there's no other openvenue at the moment, I'd like to use the open thread to restate a comment I made in the liveblog of the debate, submitted just before the comments were disallowed.

It troubles me that there were so many comments about Obama not calling McSame out on his lies. I was struck by how much Obama carried himself as a statesman, a real politician.

Isn't that what we want in our president?

I realize we're in tough political times, and that mean spirited tactics are the norm. But, in order to rise above politics as we've come to know it, don't we want someone who can recognize and acknowledge the validity of another politician's point of view?

I say kudos to Obama! After tonight I have come to see you as a rare breed of politician, the likes of which we haven't seen since JFK!

Sarah Braun @ 14:

I hope for the best for Sen. Kennedy. NBC announced that he was taken to the hospital just as Grandpa McNasty was hobbling off the stage. That will raise some doubts. I hope it leads to more demands to release McCain's complete medical records. Hell, you have to piss in a cup to flip burgers these days.

Actually, grampy got that wrong. Kennedy was already on his way home by then.

Didn't anyone else notice that McCain admitted that the US tortures prisoners, when he said, "...we'll never, ever torture another prisoner again"?

Bet he didn't mean to let that one slip out.

MsJoanne @ 22:

Sarah Braun @ 14:

I hope for the best for Sen. Kennedy. NBC announced that he was taken to the hospital just as Grandpa McNasty was hobbling off the stage. That will raise some doubts. I hope it leads to more demands to release McCain's complete medical records. Hell, you have to piss in a cup to flip burgers these days.

Actually, grampy got that wrong. Kennedy was already on his way home by then.

That figures. But I was thinking more of the visceral connection viewers have of seeing this old man hobbling off the stage as they hear the story of Sen Kennedy.

ignorant slob @ 21:

I've been a fan of Crooks and Liars for years but I've never actually clicked on an "open thread". I've always assumed it was just that, an open thread. And I like to stay on topic.

Because there's no other openvenue at the moment, I'd like to use the open thread to restate a comment I made in the liveblog of the debate, submitted just before the comments were disallowed.

It troubles me that there were so many comments about Obama not calling McSame out on his lies. I was struck by how much Obama carried himself as a statesman, a real politician.

Isn't that what we want in our president?

I realize we're in tough political times, and that mean spirited tactics are the norm. But, in order to rise above politics as we've come to know it, don't we want someone who can recognize and acknowledge the validity of another politician's point of view?

I say kudos to Obama! After tonight I have come to see you as a rare breed of politician, the likes of which we haven't seen since JFK!

I hope you are right. But we need a candidate who can win in the current atmosphere of American politics. I thought both Al Gore and John Kerry were respectable statesmen. But Dumb Boy Bush beat them enough to win. We need to win this election, not show how graceful and dignified we can be, while the other team whoops the hell out of us. The game has changed and we need to compete.

SlaveryisFreedom @ 13:

This debate was very disturbing.

My main problem is with 2 lies that both candidates seemed to have no problem perpetuating as fact.

First being the "Iran wants to wipe Israel off the face of the Earth". This is a ridiculous and already proven to be completely inaccurate translation of what was said by the Ahlotoflettersinhisname Iranian President.

Second, is how both candidates referred to Russia as the "aggressor" in the Georgian conflict. This is just a flat out lie. Georgia was the aggressor, Georgia (most likely with US support) chose the Olympic opening ceremonies as the time to push in S. Ossetia and murder Russian peacekeeping troops. Russia worked all weekend to try and call for emergency Un meetings, to no avail. And on the following Monday, us sheeple wake up to the headline of "Russia Invades Georgia".

There were ofcourse other lies being thrown around all night, but these 2 in particular really stuck with me.

How can we expect any change in the Imperial foreign policy position that the US has adopted, when the "change" and "maverick" candidates are already setting the table for disaster?

This is akin to the Saddam/9-11 ties. A known lie already being put in the public consciousness to set a pretext for yet another upcoming illegal invasion.

How did our country get so far out of control?

and, unless i'm mistaken, colin powell has already come out and said georgia attacked 1st.

obama clearly won the debate, but he could have knocked mccain out by quoting powell.

L.A. Confidential @ 30:

It never hurts to plan for the worst, which is why I’m thinking about laying in a year’s supply of pork and beans.

Get a couple for me, too, eh?

15 MsJoanne Says: How Wall Street can bail itself out.
========

Thom Hartmann knows his stuff.

And Common Dreams is near the top of daily required reading list.

21 ignorant slob Says: I’ve been a fan of Crooks and Liars for years but I’ve never actually clicked on an “open thread”. I’ve always assumed it was just that, an open thread. And I like to stay on topic.

Because there’s no other openvenue at the moment, I’d like to use the open thread to restate a comment I made in the liveblog of the debate, submitted just before the comments were disallowed.

It troubles me that there were so many comments about Obama not calling McSame out on his lies. I was struck by how much Obama carried himself as a statesman, a real politician.

Isn’t that what we want in our president?

I realize we’re in tough political times, and that mean spirited tactics are the norm. But, in order to rise above politics as we’ve come to know it, don’t we want someone who can recognize and acknowledge the validity of another politician’s point of view?

I say kudos to Obama! After tonight I have come to see you as a rare breed of politician, the likes of which we haven’t seen since JFK!
========

I agree 100% .. and well said!

I saw that nearly 30% of Drudge viewers thought Obama won. Damn. So do we have a ton of people raising that number or are Drudge readers are too stupid to read so clicked the wrong choice? Oh right, I answered my own question.

Obama faired well. He does have a hard job, he can't fall into the trap of being the "angry black man" or the "uppity n*gger". And he can't come of appearing too intellectual (damn, I hate that part about elections. You have to appeal to morons to win) so all-in-all I'm happy that McLame didn't run away with it and that Joe is going to get a chance to eviscerate Caribou Barbie next Friday.

Look, I'm no McCain fan to be sure, but he did do pretty well tonight. I thought Obama was calm, but bland. It was kind of like a football game: Obama, who scored early and often before the debate, continues to let McCain hang around and get back in the game in a big way. Run by lobbysists, not to mention in cahoots with plenty with a hand in the recent economic meltdown, MCain is perhaps the wekaest candidate to run in ages: coming off a week where he said the economy was strong- just before it collpased- this debate should have been over before it started. Obama did not impress me- at all- with this performance.

When McSame kept repeating that "Miss Congeniality" shit, I was yelling at my TV "hit him over the head with Sarah Palin!"
Too bad Obama couldn't hear me through the TV. LOL

Go to www.drudgereport.com and vote on who won.

If you then clear your drudge cookie you can vote again.

Steve @ 41:

Look, I'm no McCain fan to be sure, but he did do pretty well tonight. I thought Obama was calm, but bland. It was kind of like a football game: Obama, who scored early and often before the debate, continues to let McCain hang around and get back in the game in a big way. Run by lobbysists, not to mention in cahoots with plenty with a hand in the recent economic meltdown, MCain is perhaps the wekaest candidate to run in ages: coming off a week where he said the economy was strong- just before it collpased- this debate should have been over before it started. Obama did not impress me- at all- with this performance.

You're right. McCain did ok. I think he came off a bit mad and very disrespectful. You can tell he doesn't like Obama at all. I hate to say it, but if Obama was white, there would be only those 28%ers voting for him.

Chuck @ 45:

Go to www.drudgereport.com and vote on who won.

If you then clear your drudge cookie you can vote again.

How the fuck do these numbers work out?? From Drudge:

MCCAIN
68% 89,119
OBAMA
30% 38,555
NEITHER
2% 3,005

McCain, at Debate, Embraces the ‘Reverse Palin Doctrine’

CNN poll: Obama - 67 %, McSame - 28%.

More from the wingers:

“You won’t need any money for healthcare if you are dead Barry!”

“We are spending 10 billion a month in Iraq, which is why we can’t afford health care for our overworked hamsters.”

No wonder I hate right wing dickheads.

Thanks PorridgeGun.

Can you folks please ignore the Drudge Report now? :)

The independent voters have decided Obama won. At this point their opinion trumps even ours.

Steve @ 58:

Was McCain a bit mad and disrespectful? Perhaps. But is that a negative? I dont really think so. I think voters want someone with a little bit of an edge to him. Obama needs to be more forceful and direct. And he has to do something winners do: hit the opponent WHERE THEY ARE WEAK. And not be afraid or apologetic in doing so. Obama has so many openings to hit, but, like a bad running back, he cant decided which hole to hit, so he loses yards by playing safe. Obama is playing not to lose. And that is a losing road, one we're gone down before with Kerry.

I'm Very disappointed in Obama.

And I'll tell you what: if the Democrats cannot win this election vs these Republicans, simply put: they will never be able to win again. Ever. Never has there been as beatable a pairing as McCain and Palin. Never.

Can i point out that the Republicans were declared dead when Jimmy Carter won in 1976?

In response to:

"Can i point out that the Republicans were declared dead when Jimmy Carter won in 1976?"

This is a far different, far more partisan political age nowadays. But I ask: if these Republicans cannot be beaten, who COULD the Democrats beat?

Watched a rerun of the debate via net but read live comments here. Felt really dishearted by all the negativity. After I'd seen the debate myself, I drew it a dead heat. Not on the issues (of which I strongly disagree with Mcsame) but on the appeal they had in forming those ideas and projecting them via the forum.
Don't forget, one mans musty, angry old dude is another's seasoned, grizzled experienced veteran. So the bias comments on here regarding McCain (while I agree with t hem) are exactly that, Bias. (on a side note, I think C&L needs to try and get a little less insular)

Anyway, a dead heat in my eyes was great given everyone expected Mcsame to win the foreign affairs debate. And by virtue of this expectation, he was ALWAYS going to win it (unless he made a huge guaffe or something). A draw is more than decent for Obama.

But I worried that seeing it as a draw personally was only because of my personal leanings. IE: Born out of hope rather than a pragmatic assessment. So I went to the cesspool that is the foxnews forums. And hey, guess what?

http://foxforum.blogs.foxnews.com/2008/09/26/debate_0926/

Even the rapid repug commentators are calling it a draw. This is good! I dont mean to have lowered expectations (and like I said, I'm not basing things on the ideas, just the presentation to voters likely to go one way or the other). Ultimately, given recent events, this is a win for Obama. It's a given that Biden will crush Palin and I think all Obama needs to do is hold his own in the next debates. To all those people on here assuming Obama should/would crush McCain, John's a wily customer. Dont underestimate his canny ability to twist truths. He's been doing this kinda stuff 25 years. You don't last that long by being an easy beat. Obama's tactic of being overly polite (which you guys are roundly criticising) will turn out to be inspired. Take it from me, the more Mcsame looks angry, bitter and condescending the more his constant talk of working in a bipartisan fashion falls flat. Obama will look stately in comparrison.

Most idiotic rednecks will vote rpugs no matter what. I'll make an assumption (and i'm sure it's a lot wrong!) that quite a few swing voters are fairly bright. Well, when compared. So they can see beyond the rhetoric and will appreciate the gesture like the one above. Dont think this isnt calculated on Barrys part.

Anyway, that's a rather long way of basically saying, a good outcome!

Paul Krugman was on Democracy Now today. He is very worried about the health of the economy. He was terrified of the Bush's plan where Paulson would have total unbridled control. Obama kept saying in the debate that we need oversight and that is what the Democrats have put into the bill. They insist upon it.

Steve @ 63:

In response to:

"Can i point out that the Republicans were declared dead when Jimmy Carter won in 1976?"

This is a far different, far more partisan political age nowadays. But I ask: if these Republicans cannot be beaten, who COULD the Democrats beat?

Another party would have to emerge if the Democrats can't ever beat them. What we, as Americans, are up against is an OWNED media. Don't ever forget that.

MsJoanne @ 66:

xoites defends Constitution @ 59:

The independent voters have decided Obama won. At this point their opinion trumps even ours.

CNN had this real time meter running and the indys were with the dems throughout the enter debate. The only time they big time differed was very high on Israel and very low when McCain talked about Iraq and winning the war and all his war shit.

It was VERY heartening.

(evening, btw!!)

Hello yourself. :)

xoites defends Constitution @ 59:

The independent voters have decided Obama won. At this point their opinion trumps even ours.

hey x ....i thought jim lehrer kind of interfered with obama's
attempt to hit mccain with the economy is 'fundamentally
strong'....i'm not saying it's huge but i thought it got diluted
a bit. what did you think?

In response to:

"A draw is more than decent for Obama."

Well, that sounds good, but WHY is a draw decent for Obama? If hes the right guy for the right time with the right plan, why shouldn't he be crushing McCain? Why are we settling for a draw? Why is foreign policy stronger for Mc Cain if Obama is the right choice? Sorry, a " draw" doesnt cut it for me. Not one bit.

SlaveryisFreedom @ 13:

This debate was very disturbing.

My main problem is with 2 lies that both candidates seemed to have no problem perpetuating as fact.

First being the "Iran wants to wipe Israel off the face of the Earth". This is a ridiculous and already proven to be completely inaccurate translation of what was said by the Ahlotoflettersinhisname Iranian President.

Second, is how both candidates referred to Russia as the "aggressor" in the Georgian conflict. This is just a flat out lie. Georgia was the aggressor, Georgia (most likely with US support) chose the Olympic opening ceremonies as the time to push in S. Ossetia and murder Russian peacekeeping troops. Russia worked all weekend to try and call for emergency Un meetings, to no avail. And on the following Monday, us sheeple wake up to the headline of "Russia Invades Georgia".

There were ofcourse other lies being thrown around all night, but these 2 in particular really stuck with me.

How can we expect any change in the Imperial foreign policy position that the US has adopted, when the "change" and "maverick" candidates are already setting the table for disaster?

This is akin to the Saddam/9-11 ties. A known lie already being put in the public consciousness to set a pretext for yet another upcoming illegal invasion.

How did our country get so far out of control?

Exactly Slaveboy. What path are we on?
How is it that Supply Side and Norquist don't ever get mentioned?
Is our side that stupid, timid or complicit?

I saw the pictures of the beginning sequence of shots between McCain and Obama on another site. One of the most remarkable things is the fact that McCain never acknowledged Obama's presence. In fact, he did not do this when he was shaking Obama's hand.

(And in my nervousness, I didn't catch this sequence the first time. But now, I was able to study the entire thing without hesitation.)

I think in the end the images are speaking for themselves. What seemed like confidence has turned against McCain because of the body language. McCain clearly has contempt for Obama and treated him as such.

It turns him into a mean, angry, and old man. That alone should be coupled with his condescending behavior.

Let's hope McCain keeps this up.

Zoner @ 80:

I'm still voting for Ron Paul as I am for neither of the major party candidates (or the major parties). That said, I think Obama was absolutely owned tonight.

Your vote doesn't count either.

MSNBC just had an ad for the new movie "W"... looks like something I'll want to see..... :-)

I also wish that Obama would rerun the old FDR line. For 8 years we've been operating according to the politics of fear. And McCain is continuing to center his campaign on that same conceit: we have to be afraid of Al Qaeda and he's the experienced warrior to save us from that threat. Obama needs to point out that the politics of fear and making fear the basis of our policies is not making us safer. In fact, Al Qaeda is stronger now than they were before 9/11. While Al Qaeda is an enemy we must deal with, they cannot destroy us. But electing our leaders and making our policy decisions based on fear can destroy this country. It is very true that what we have to fear is fear itself.

So we have McCain.....

and Palin. Kathleen Parker an ultra conservative wants her out.

http://article.nationalreview.com/?q=MDZiMDhjYTU1NmI5Y2MwZjg2MWNiMWMyYTU...
She writes.
No one hates saying that more than I do. Like so many women, I’ve been pulling for Palin, wishing her the best, hoping she will perform brilliantly. I’ve also noticed that I watch her interviews with the held breath of an anxious parent, my finger poised over the mute button in case it gets too painful. Unfortunately, it often does. My cringe reflex is exhausted.

MountainMan23 @ 64:

56 ignorant slob Says: ..

Let the man have his say, be a fantastic diplomat, and work on getting the disenfranchised voters to the polls? No election would be contestable with sufficient votes…
========

In the 2004 US Presidential elections

217,767,000 were eligible to vote.
167,802,660 registered to vote (77% of eligible voters).
122,293,548 voted (56% of eligible voters; 73% of registered voters).

62,040,610 voted for Bush/Cheney: 28% of eligible voters.
59,028,439 voted for Kerry/Edwards: 27% of eligible voters.
95,473,452 eligible voters did not vote: 44% of eligible voters.

http://uselectionatlas.org/
Dave Leip's Atlas of US Presidential Elections

44%!!!! I'd love to know how many of the potential minority voters CNN is contacting to get their take on the debate...

Folks, I've given up many a night to cynical debate, I've even called in sick to work for sake of continuing same said cynical debates. But I want change. And I'm thinking you want change.

If you want change, the only way to combat this thing is by getting voters to the polls. Let's get so many voters to the polls that there's no way in hell they could ever contest the votes.

Step away from the computer! Go out and make a difference! Register voters in your community who are among the "disenfranchised". Tell them how important it is that they get their votes in.

We can overcome the Rove machine by just getting enough votes in the machine.

John McCain is a liar about Kissinger. Henry said this last sat at CNN when they had the group talking about the next president. I have heard that Henry came out tonight and said Obama is wrong. No he is not.

KISSINGER: Well, I am in favor of negotiating with Iran. And one utility of negotiation is to put before Iran our vision of a Middle East, of a stable Middle East, and our notion on nuclear proliferation at a high enough level so that they have to study it. And, therefore, I actually have preferred doing it at the secretary of state level so that we -- we know we're dealing with authentic...

(CROSSTALK)

SESNO: Put at a very high level right out of the box?

KISSINGER: Initially, yes. And I always believed that the best way to begin a negotiation is to tell the other side exactly what you have in mind and what you are -- what the outcome is that you're trying to achieve so that they have something that they can react to.

Now, the permanent members of the Security Council, plus Japan and Germany, have all said nuclear weapons in Iran are unacceptable. They've never explained what they mean by this. So if we go into a negotiation, we ought to have a clear understanding of what is it we're trying to prevent. What is it going to do if we can't achieve what we're talking about?

But I do not believe that we can make conditions for the opening of negotiations. We ought, however, to be very clear about the content of negotiations and work it out with other countries and with our own government.

Zoner @ 80:

I'm still voting for Ron Paul as I am for neither of the major party candidates (or the major parties). That said, I think Obama was absolutely owned tonight.

Why?

Why do Democrats say, "we took our eye off the ball" when talking about Iraq?

They should say, "Bush and John McCain took thier eyes off the ball"!!!

Obama Wins Debate: most major media agree

We Now Know Who the Next President Will Be

bullfrog @ 94:

swampfox @ 88:

well i think john kerry did a great job against mccain tonight!

ty, er, swampy, why won't you just get behind obama?

you know, when i was a kid, i got jumped by five black kids who kicked the crap out of me.

yet, my best friend at the time was also black.

i never turned into a racist.

Crap! If it was only the black kids who beat the crap out of me! Bullies are equal opportunity bashers.

CoIntelPro for Pronktastic Victory Over SCLM, DIEBOLD, ESS and SEQUOIA! @ 96:

MsJoanne @ 66:

xoites defends Constitution @ 59:

The independent voters have decided Obama won. At this point their opinion trumps even ours.

CNN had this real time meter running and the indys were with the dems throughout the enter debate. The only time they big time differed was very high on Israel and very low when McCain talked about Iraq and winning the war and all his war shit.

It was VERY heartening.

(evening, btw!!)

Evening you two!

Why I love Dave Letterman

have a couple couple of laughs at McDramaKKKween.

Hey hon! Letterman rocks. He is really pissed at McCain.

es-HUSSEIN-me @ 82:

ignorant slob @ 38:

Orangutan. @ 29:

ignorant slob @ 21:

I hope you are right. But we need a candidate who can win in the current atmosphere of American politics. I thought both Al Gore and John Kerry were respectable statesmen. But Dumb Boy Bush beat them enough to win. We need to win this election, not show how graceful and dignified we can be, while the other team whoops the hell out of us. The game has changed and we need to compete.

Yeah. But don't we dererve the chance to win that by being real humans and not lying assholes? Can;t we take a chance on "rocking the vote" by telling the straight-up truth and being gentlemen about it?

I suspect that's Obama's hope. And, quite frankly, it's my hope too. Perhaps it's silly but I'd like to see intellectual prowess, and the ability to hold a civil debate, as a qualification for the leader of the "free world" (whatever the hell that means anymore).

Gore 2000

NO! The Gore vote was STOLEN. Don't you see? It's not the message, it's the medium...

xoites defends Constitution @ 92:

constituent @ 86:

xoites defends Constitution @ 76:

constituent @ 73:

I never expected this to be a fair fight.

i'm not talking about a fair fight between fighters but the
moderator just interfered when he asked obama to tell
mccain what he said. he deflated it....you don't have to tell
me about the rules of fighting.....we're on a different
wavelength. that's cool whatever predictably..unpredictable

What makes you think Jim Lehrer does not have a horse in this race?

not sure....what makes you think you know for sure that
he does have a horse in this race?

I'm going to go against a lot of the blogosphere and MSM tonight and call tonight's debate a draw. There weren't really any statements by either candidate that will be getting a lot of play tomorrow, and tonight's performances won't move a lot of numbers in the polls (although this is ultimately good news for Obama).

I thought Obama missed a huge opportunity tonight. McCain made a fairly extraordinary, and fairly dim-witted, statement that really nobody picked up on afterward. He said that, if faced with a ballooning budget deficit, he will "freeze spending and only allow spending on defense, veteran's benefits, and entitlements". That leaves out a whole slew of things that are absolutely vital to the American people. Medicare, Medicaid, children's health insurance, education, research and technology, improving our country's crumbling infrastructure, disaster relief, etc. etc. etc. Obama could have easily pounced on this misstep by McCain and it would be all over the media. If Obama knows what's good for him, his campaign will press this issue in the days to come and at the next debate.

StirFry @ 98:

And of course the topic scary dingbat Sarah Palin came up which only helps Obama. It's a small sample size, but they paid for my drinks tonight. :)

And you didn't share with the rest of us? Shame shame.

constituent @ 105:

xoites defends Constitution @ 92:

constituent @ 86:

xoites defends Constitution @ 76:
i'm not talking about a fair fight between fighters but the
moderator just interfered when he asked obama to tell
mccain what he said. he deflated it....you don't have to tell
me about the rules of fighting.....we're on a different
wavelength. that's cool whatever predictably..unpredictable

What makes you think Jim Lehrer does not have a horse in this race?

not sure....what makes you think you know for sure that
he does have a horse in this race?

I have no idea, but you are the one saying he cut Obama off. If Lehrer does not have an opinion i would be very surprised.

Meanwhile MSNBC has pretty much decided that Obama won.

Nora O'Donnel is citing all the reasons NOT to vote McCain.... he had a very busy week, expectations were low because of having to fly to washington, yada yada yada...... in other words... He's to OLD to handle the work load required!!!!

Yeah Ron Paul is kind of the goofy uncle. His ideas need a candidate like Tsongas needed a Clinton.

We'll agree to disagree, but polls are complete crap.

time for bed folks... I hope Obama's advisors will review the tape and learn from the many missed opportunities to use McCain's words and votes against him. You can be diplomatic and factual with finesse. Can't wait to see Biden and cheerleader next week (unless she refuses to show... ) Everyone have a great evening!!!

xoites defends Constitution @ 111:

constituent @ 105:

xoites defends Constitution @ 92:

constituent @ 86:

What makes you think Jim Lehrer does not have a horse in this race?

not sure....what makes you think you know for sure that
he does have a horse in this race?

I have no idea, but you are the one saying he cut Obama off. If Lehrer does not have an opinion i would be very surprised.

Meanwhile MSNBC has pretty much decided that Obama won.

Better than McCain advertising in the WSJ this morning that HE won the debate...before even saying he was going to attend.

txlvn @ 119:

time for bed folks... I hope Obama's advisors will review the tape and learn from the many missed opportunities to use McCain's words and votes against him. You can be diplomatic and factual with finesse. Can't wait to see Biden and cheerleader next week (unless she refuses to show... ) Everyone have a great evening!!!

Night night. (or day day if you prefer)

GNA! :)

xoites defends Constitution @ 125:

GNA! :)

AW! Darn. Good night, sweetie.

xoites defends Constitution @ 125:

GNA! :)

Good night. :)

Separate topic here: Ever notice the Bush administration's marketing tactics? From the White House Iraq Group to phony press conferences with the troops, the collegiate taught approach of marketing is used.

Having taken marketing courses before, part of the curriculum is to take psychology courses. I remember the discussion of "Maslow's hierarchy of needs". The fear mongering of the Republican relates to the 2nd level of the pyramid.

Lyndon LaRouche attempted the technique unsuccessfully for a long time but he was unsuccessful because he was not credible.

Be advised, when warned of "imminent threat", either of financial meltdown that could lead to the cratering of the economy, or a mushroom cloud, *when false*, the technique is an approach taught in a typical marketing program at your neighborhood college or university.

Take the current meltdown in the financial industry. These issues about the derivatives and sub-prime mortgages have been known for at least 6 months. Yet, it's possible that the government, using the 2nd level of the Maslow pyramid, the safety level, the fear mongering level, *could* now be using these marketing techniques to ramrod the bailout through through an imminent threat approach that aligns with the 2nd level of the pyramid. Or, in the alternative, our government is composed of complete morons that only started on the case last week. I don't see a third choice here.

The point of this thread was to acquaint the reader with Maslow's hierarchy of needs and to point out that these needs are pandered to in professional marketing. In marketing, the lower your approach is on the pyramid, the better off you are, which is why the Republican clings to the "safety" area whenever possible. I'm surprised we're not in "orange alert". Wait, it's not October yet. But, I've seen the utilization of professional marketing techniques in the last 8 year, and the Democrats have to take a quantum leap to catch up. Remember, nice guys finish last.

I hate it when my browser "decides" I can't use the HTML features by clicking on them. I have to manually enter them "italics" or "bold" etc. Feh. Any one know why that is happening? My guess is the AV software is blocking some feature but I'm not sure which one.

"two riders were approaching and the wind began to howl" -- Bob Dylan

constituent @ 134:

Zoner @ 117:

We'll agree to disagree, but polls are complete crap.

you may be correct you may not.....prove it.

I trust these types of on demand polling, more like exit polls, but not the telephone ones.

MsJoanne @ 135:

constituent @ 134:

Zoner @ 117:

We'll agree to disagree, but polls are complete crap.

you may be correct you may not.....prove it.

I trust these types of on demand polling, more like exit polls, but not the telephone ones.

i'm not much of a poll person but having said that people
do like polls so i care somewhat because it won't be won
with how i think. polls can be persuasive for some demographics.
i'm completely sold on obama. mccain will appeal to the
past way of thinking demographics. we've watched and
listened to both of these people. mccain often repeated
one liners and words he has often used in the past.....
you know them...straight talk...my friends...obama doesn't
understand.succeding...petraus.some people dig the mccain repetitive chant. it's prefabricated. with all of this worldly experience mccain didn't put obama away.

constituent @ 137:

I trust these types of on demand polling, more like exit polls, but not the telephone ones.

i'm not much of a poll person but having said that people
do like polls so i care somewhat because it won't be won
with how i think. polls can be persuasive for some demographics.
i'm completely sold on obama. mccain will appeal to the
past way of thinking demographics. we've watched and
listened to both of these people. mccain often repeated
one liners and words he has often used in the past.....
you know them...straight talk...my friends...obama doesn't
understand.succeding...petraus.some people dig the mccain repetitive chant. it's prefabricated. with all of this worldly experience mccain didn't put obama away.

I think you hit the nail on the head. McCain's ideas are pre-fabricated. They are also mostly stolen from Obama. McCain can't think of an original idea in his life. That's the point that the Dems have to hit home.

We can't take stale ideas to get us out of the crisis we're facing.

rehctaw @ 48:

Mandatory post-debate drug testing.

I'm not saying MeCain had artificial inspiration, I'm just saying....

That would be awesome. Required peeing in a cup etc.

Rich @ 142:

I miss my ex-girlfriend

Everyone does. That's the way it goes. Keep trying and you'll find another love.

*see me

Check this crap out!

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/politics/obama/chi-obama-quiz,0,23485...

Test your knowledge of Obama and then you can even test your knowledge of McCain.

I popped off an e-mail to the tribune and congratulated them on their innovation of push polling via the internet. You should do the same.

Will Powell come out and publicly endorse Obama?