Open Thread: President Obama's Health Care Plan
Please discuss as the President announces his final plan for health-care reform.
Some excerpts, sent in advance:
“I don’t believe we should give government bureaucrats or insurance company bureaucrats more control over health care in America. I believe it’s time to give the American people more control over their own health insurance. I don’t believe we can afford to leave life-and-death decisions about health care to the discretion of insurance company executives alone. I believe that doctors and nurses like the ones in this room should be free to decide what’s best for their patients.
The proposal I’ve put forward gives Americans more control over their health care by holding insurance companies more accountable. It builds on the current system where most Americans get their health insurance from their employer. If you like your plan, you can keep your plan. If you like your doctor, you can keep your doctor. Because I can tell you that as the father of two young girls, I wouldn’t want any plan that interferes with the relationship between a family and their doctor.”
***
“So this is our proposal. This is where we’ve ended up. It’s an approach that has been debated and changed and I believe improved over the last year. It incorporates the best ideas from Democrats and Republicans – including some of the ideas that Republicans offered during the health care summit, like funding state grants on medical malpractice reform and curbing waste, fraud, and abuse in the health care system. My proposal also gets rid of many of the provisions that had no place in health care reform – provisions that were more about winning individual votes in Congress than improving health care for all Americans.”
***
“At stake right now is not just our ability to solve this problem, but our ability to solve any problem. The American people want to know if it’s still possible for Washington to look out for their interests and their future. They are waiting for us to act. They are waiting for us to lead. And as long as I hold this office, I intend to provide that leadership. I don’t know how this plays politically, but I know it’s right. And so I ask Congress to finish its work, and I look forward to signing this reform into law.”
The White House has put the proposal up for you to read.
.
"Parachutes are allowed in checked or carry-on baggage, but may not be worn in flight."
---Southwest Airlines
He needs a new tie. I've seen that one before. Seen the blue one too.
standing at his side.
This hearkens back to the big press conference he had at The Rose Garden where his staff had to "pass out" lab coats to the "doctors and nurses" who were there to support his HCR legislation.
We don't need "gimmicks" we need everyone to be covered, billing to be simplified that would provide massive savings (thus "Single Payer/Improved Medicare for All") and a healthcare system that is FAIR FOR ALL AMERICANS.
Obama just said he welcomes ideas from ALL doctors and nurses. Really?? Then why does he continue to shut out any discussion of the BEST system for the American People????
Because he's spent all his time with big lobbyists for the health insurance corporations and he took their money to become POTUS.
Meet PUBLICLY with doctors from PNHP Mr. Obama.
Stop trying to convince us that setting up a healthcare reform system that continues to unnecessarily include the very health insurance corporations that have been gouging and denying the American People for so long, is the "best" solution to our problem.
I have not given a dime to any of these corporations in my life. And law or no law, fines or no fines, I will continue to refuse to invest any of my money with them so long as one penny of my investment goes to enrich some stockholder on Wall Street.
"The US has an army of 90,000 soldiers in Afghanistan and is spending $100bn a year, but has still been unable to defeat 20,000-25,000 Taliban who receive no pay at all." - Patrick Cockburn
dittos
Cue the Kabuki....
Abby.
Nice.
Seconded.
Single payer might be more or less dead on a national level as health insurance companies toast to its inability to make a showing on the national stage -- but maybe we can bring it in on a state-by-state basis.
PA is working on it, CA will (once they find a way to circumvent the so-called "Governator"), and hopefully CT will after we get rid of Governor "I swear I didn't know John Roland" Rell.
Maybe.
Well said!
He's as irredeemably compromised as the rest of the "centrist" Bribe-O-crats.
what he is poushing is neither healthcare nor reform. It's just another scam that rips the People off.
A little truth goes a long way, eh?
"The US has an army of 90,000 soldiers in Afghanistan and is spending $100bn a year, but has still been unable to defeat 20,000-25,000 Taliban who receive no pay at all." - Patrick Cockburn
.
What a guy.
Corruption favors the wealthy.
KILLING people NOT healing them.
Cue the Kabuki....
Then we can make money on the spare parts.
"Parachutes are allowed in checked or carry-on baggage, but may not be worn in flight."
---Southwest Airlines
I shut him off after that. I can't stand listening to him anymore.
Why? The unanswered question. I know the answer: Our corporate employers said so, that's why.
anything that one refuses to consider, however briefly, is imparctical and unrealistic. By definition, anything one refuses to attempt is impossible.
What a shit head he's turning out to be.
That powerhouse country Colombia has a higher ranking than we do on health care.
Not only that, Taiwan amended its system a decade ago in a MediCare for all scheme that was modeled on...wait for it...the US MediCare system and their outcomes have never been better.
are not looking either "practical or realistic" to me for 2012.
"The US has an army of 90,000 soldiers in Afghanistan and is spending $100bn a year, but has still been unable to defeat 20,000-25,000 Taliban who receive no pay at all." - Patrick Cockburn
Who's he trying to sell?
Hint: they're probably not voting Democratic in the fall.
Corruption favors the wealthy.
what a D-bag. Or maybe I should say R-bag.
I think there was a real opportunity for remarkable change regarding health care reform. Instead we are going to get very mild change (assuming a bill eventually gets to Obama). That will give the Dems *some* cover going into the elections and allow the hardcore Obama supporters to claim victory ("it's baby steps towards ultimate reform"). Going forward for the next three years I don't think any of us should expect earth-shattering change or reform. Look how long it took Obama to even begin to accept that the other side is out to get him. It's a big disappointment.
until after the next presidential election. Obama is counting on being re-elected before the American people get the full impact of how shitty the legislation is.
Thanks to Obama, it looks increasingly like real reform will have to be undertaken at the state level, where there is less corporate money pouring in and the politicians are not as bought off. Gov. Schwarzenegger is the only thing holding back a single-payer initiative from being signed into law in Calif; the new govenor is likely to be Jerry Brown. Though he has said he is against single payer because it would make Calif the only state with it, the momentum for single payer is building and the hope is he will be persuadable, esp if other states are introducing initiatives.
If I understand correctly, the reason a single state would be reluctant to be the first with single-payer is the influx of across-border abuse of the system. What if the whole west coast went over at the same time?
One big problem is that the states wouldn't get the money they'd be saving for Medicare. If they could work out some rebate from the feds, that would help.
The politicians have been promising public healthcare since Ike.
Not a good track record.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bjRnw9pjvCQ
Diabolus est Deus Inversus
The little people get jack shit and the burden of a new insurance bill every month.
Take your shitty healthcare bill and shove it up your ass Obama.
Republicans are liars and simply cannot be trusted.
So far, it looks like the best we could have expected from a DLC corporate democrat. Of course, if I wanted that, I would have voted for Hillary in the primary.
When will these triangulating fucks understand that they will be politically popular if they have a cohesive strategy that's not all compromises and expedience, and then stick to it.
I was just reading about how Dana Milbank and un-named Congressional sources (read: Rahm Emanuel) think that Obama's agenda has "sputtered" because he hasn't listened enough to Rahm Emanuel. Fuck Rahm Emanuel.
I don't know about where all y'all live, but in Portland, people were literally dancing in the streets when Obama won the election - a lot of people. You think they were dancing in the streets for a Rahm Emanuel administration? Am I mistaken or has just about every Emanuel-recruited candidate for Congress lost? Why do these triangulating fucks keep arguing with results?
It seems that from the moment they took office the White House strategy has been to advance the Democratic Party by sucking up to all the powers-that-be - the hawks, the banks, the entire MIC, Big Pharma, etc - to secure their support.
After all, that has been the DLC strategy since 1980 - take away what had been the Republican power base, to compensate for the Dem's loss of the Dixiecrats to the Republicans.
Democracy is too important to be entrusted to politicians.
Rise Up!
Protest!
Pay no attention to the last 10 years, I guess. Elections are still won by machines in these guys' minds.
If they even looked at the fundraising numbers they would know that they've got the calculus all wrong.
Surely you jest.
It costs way too much money (and political capital) to bring our population up to the standard of knowing calculus.
Pretty soon...we'll be lucky to have the kin folk of our nation be able to count higher than ten with their socks on.
The ONLY reason I chose Obama over Clinton was that he promised "NO MANDATES IN HEALTHCARE REFORM" during the debates.
Liar.
P.S. By the looks of what I've read so far on this thread, Obama and his Democratic Party cohorts are standing on some shaky ground right now. This bill is hated on the right for their fiscally conservative/selfish reasons and hated on the left for the opposite reasons. For me, it's not even a Band-aid on the tumor. It's more like continuing to ignore the tumor while forcing us to pay his corporate handlers more money we DON'T HAVE!!!!!!!
"The US has an army of 90,000 soldiers in Afghanistan and is spending $100bn a year, but has still been unable to defeat 20,000-25,000 Taliban who receive no pay at all." - Patrick Cockburn
.. same thought's run through my mind a gzillion times or two ..
Democracy is too important to be entrusted to politicians.
Rise Up!
Protest!
Yep! Me too!
Let's sit back and wait for the Rahmabama's to lose the huge majority they had, just like in 1994. Then they can blame all the liberals for their loss, and ponder why not one single freaking republican still voted for them.
I loathe this guy we elected. He and his DLC turds pulled a power coup after Dr. Dean (a real democrat) brought the dems back into power. The future damage they have inflicted on the people is incalcuable! A once in a lifetime opportunity gone.
Stick Rahm where the sun don't shine Mr. republican-lite president!
Rush Limbaugh is what a smart person thinks a stupid bigot sounds like.
I remember the excitement when Dean ran for the Democratic nomination in 2000. Many in the party thought he would be perfect...then most of them jumped ship for the charismatic "electability" of Mr. Kerry. Someday we'll all start voting for who we really want to represent us instead of who the Media tells us can "win".
True that. We forget far too often that this stupid play was attempted back in the 90s during Bill's tenure as President. Single payer would solve the majority of the problems they're dealing with in terms of providing healthcare for everyone, but we're not interested in that.
As Colbert put it, if we were interested in providing healthcare for everyone, we'd enact single payer. Period.
I can't believe what a POS we have in the white house. Effing A. He's talked alot about wanting the best idea, but aside from hitting him upside the head, he's been ignoring the ONE idea most every american wants.
I have absolutely no respect for him. He took what could have been accomplished on a scale of 1 to 10, a 10 being possible, and left us with a 2 - at best.
How could he (or anyone)take pride is such an accomplishment?
And as for voting democratic next election - jeez, the republicans are all flat out crazy.
Because they don't give a shit about people and they hold their base in such contempt that they think no one notices when they do a bait and switch.
Fuck 'em. It's third party time for me.
and if there is no public component (public option or expanded Medicare), then I am un-registering from the Democratic Party. Healthcare was the last straw for me, after many years of extreme disappointment with the Democratic 'leadership', which is now more conservative (actually, corporatist) than conservative Republicans of past years. Certainly Obama's policies almost across the board have been very conservative and economically regressive.
to Obama and crew that healthcare was a defining issue, a line in the sand, they chose to ignore the signs. Payback's coming this year and in 2012.
http://www.commondreams.org/headline/2009/12/...
This is the first big test of his leadership. I want to review this bill more carefully, but something is better than the current situation.
Enjoy some satire...
http://modonjon.blogspot.com/2010/03/queen-li...
C&L LoVE, DonJon.
Did something change today? Can I read it?
"The White House has put the proposal up for you to read."
I'll go look now. Did you hear Chris Wallace say that BHO "put the wood " to Congress? Does that mean something other then the obvious? Did he get turned on by the presser?
Enough to know there is no public option in that steaming pile.
He puts front and center a big slap in the face to Ben Nelson - removing the Neb-centric Medicare payments. I'm sure he was thinking that he could play that like it wasn't politics as usual - but it was a big mistake in my book. He could have buried that on page 37, and still be able to blunt Republican talking points. Now, he basically called out Ben Nelson - no chance he'll be eager to help out Obama. So, in exchange for wooing people who will never support him, he hits Ben Nelson - who might have supported him - with a rolled up newspaper on a national stage. Three-dimensional chess my arse.
And yes, Matthews dreams about Obama giving Congress his multi-racial wood. This is news? We are talking about the guy who wants to sniff Fred Thompson's underwear, you know.
happened to have Fox local on when the presser began. I burst out laughing when he said that. Creepy.
wrong dude. Chris Wallace is worthless. I wouldn't piss on him if he were on fire. I wonder how much he charges for his servicing of Rupert Murdoch.
he has surgically implanted knee pads. He also immediately launched into the obvious talking points of the day, accusing BHO of putting his socialist agenda in play, blah, blah, blah. Last night I had Fox on when their local news came on at 5, and they went into an 8 minute rant about another spurious charge against David Patterson. I checked the other local channels, and none of them were talking about the same thing. Fox. Trust them to do the wrong thing. Gossip mongers.
who blocked just about every realistic reform proposal? I have to disagree Old Billy. By putting that slap front and center it signals that Obama is willing to ditch recalcitrant blue dogs.
Hasa Diga Eebowai
...would get the message either way. Putting it front and center only serves to draw the attention of more of the lower information voters. It creates a public disagreement between Obama and Nelson - instead of publicizing the disagreement between Obama and McConnell, Kyl, Inhofe, Bunning, DeMint, Brownback, etc.
by 'Thugs are getting tossed off a lot these days. Funny, with all the fucking of the American public, you'd think they'd take time for smoke breaks...
"Parachutes are allowed in checked or carry-on baggage, but may not be worn in flight."
---Southwest Airlines
LOL!
Rush Limbaugh is what a smart person thinks a stupid bigot sounds like.
.
roadtrip photos!
L O V E I T
It looks kind of crazy O_o
me-oww!
provide the veneer of credibility. That's why you see so many in the commercials for health insurance and pharmaceutical companies.
ho ho.... hee hee.... ha haaa
Cue the Kabuki....
after the speech. Too much triangulating and sucking up to big money can drive one crazy.
his cigarettes.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B5NyyC-UjBM&fe...
audit-prosecute-incarcerate
.
"The US has an army of 90,000 soldiers in Afghanistan and is spending $100bn a year, but has still been unable to defeat 20,000-25,000 Taliban who receive no pay at all." - Patrick Cockburn
Right now?
If the Democrats pass this POS they'll pay for it in November.
Massachusetts was nothing.
Corruption favors the wealthy.
We'll all pay for it.
And the WaPo will tell us it's because Obama wasn't "centrist" and "bi-partisan" enough.
Just a thought, remember in 1993 when all the "serious" pundits were saying that the military would never allow gays to openly serve and "Don't ask don't tell" was the best we could hope for? Guess what? They were wrong again. Not that you'd know from listening to them.
was because of the votes he got. It was because of the votes his opponent did NOT get.
The map on Election Night will be a SEA OF RED if this passes.
And to think...he had the world by the ass on Election Night.
He could have given Bush the cold shoulder on Inauguration Day, had his first meetings be with doctors and nurses and others who are the foot soldiers on the front lines every day dealing with our heathcare CRISIS, and he could have announced that he WANTED THE PLAN THAT DOCTORS AND NURSES OVERWHELMINGLY SUPPORT....AN IMPROVED MEDICARE FOR ALL SYSTEM.
Had he trotted out "Improved Medicare for All" and asked Reid and Pelosi to "get it done", they could have come back with a hundred page bill within six weeks that even the REPUBLICANS WOULD NOT HAVE BEEN ABLE TO ARGUE WITH!!!!
This thing would have been passed BEFORE ALL THE NASTY TOWNHALL MEETINGS ERUPTED!
FINALLY!!! The American people would have gotten something from the government PAID FOR WITH OUR OWN TAX DOLLARS!! that we could all support, rally behind and be proud of!!!
He could have then tackled the jobs problem.
(But to be honest, he screwed up royally by not tackling the economy straight out of the gate. The Commission that Dodd/Shelby have thus far failed to set up should have been assembled immediately so the people would understand Obama was working for US (and that includes all the baggers) and NOT for Wall Street!!)
As far as I'm concerned he's blown it big time.
I'm about to put this bumpersticker on my car: There's a picture of Bush and Obama and the words NOTHING CHANGED.
"The US has an army of 90,000 soldiers in Afghanistan and is spending $100bn a year, but has still been unable to defeat 20,000-25,000 Taliban who receive no pay at all." - Patrick Cockburn
is exactly what the DLC and mainstream "Democrats" want. Exactly whatthey want.
They're going to get it.
He not only is a rightwing liar, but now the Orwellean Corporate media will be pounding home the "socialist meme" for the next three years.
Sickening! As if this guy were anything but a bought for empty suit corporatist.
The country continues it's right wing march, to the nazi side of the dialogue.
Rush Limbaugh is what a smart person thinks a stupid bigot sounds like.
you are right on the mark. i hate how so many have been brainwashed into thinking he's a socialist...or even liberal. what a crock.
You pretty much nailed it. I guess we were all so desperate to see the Bush/Cheney nightmare come to an end, that we allowed ourselves to be duped by Broken Promises Obama. Sad. If democrats had passed real health care for all Americans, they would have had a lock on power for the next 20 years, because it would have had an immediate impact in everyone's life that they could see and that media propaganda couldn't distort.
Now, we are staring at a bloodbath in 2010 and 2012, with the rethuglicans, neocons, and Christian Taliban returning to power to complete the destruction of America. Emigration is looking pretty good right now.
I'm looking forward to healthcare costs tripling in the next five years.
"Anyone that makes less than $150K in this country, has no business voting Republican."
another five years...
"Parachutes are allowed in checked or carry-on baggage, but may not be worn in flight."
---Southwest Airlines
On the other hand, we have an overseas business proposal in the works. I hope it's accepted and I can move away from here.
I've got friends in Darwin who invited me for an extended stay awhile back. Seriously considering it right now.
"Parachutes are allowed in checked or carry-on baggage, but may not be worn in flight."
---Southwest Airlines
Why not, even the best economic outlooks say we are going to be in this mess until the middle of the decade.
two corporats who always think of the little guy...
"Parachutes are allowed in checked or carry-on baggage, but may not be worn in flight."
---Southwest Airlines
more bullshit from the bullshitter in chief.
Single payer is "neither practical nor realistic"...
funny how it works in all other civilized countries, but poor dumb amoralka can't seen to figur it out.
Maybe there's some kind of interference at our GPS coordinates...
"I don’t believe we should give government bureaucrats or insurance company bureaucrats more control over health care in America. I believe it’s time to give the American people more control over their own health insurance."
I like. Too bad it will be negated by:
"It builds on the current system where most Americans get their health insurance from their employer."
So we get as much control of our healthcare as any slave.
he would have noticed that, like the corporation to which I am enchattled, employers are gutting employee insurance benefits. Why? Because in a depressed job market they can. what are their wage slaves fgoing to do go and find another, better job? unlikely. cynically opportunistic predation at work for you. My employer (name withheld to protect the amoral sociopaths who run the corporation) just ran deductibles and copays up so high and broadened the list of things and drugs that they won't pay for regardless, that, effectively, we have no insurance. then they rolled their changes out , gave it a nice Orwellian name, and shoved it up our butts. Of course, the malign personalities amongst the executive class got to keep their Rolls-Royce health plans.
That's quite a system Obama palns to build on. He may be a smart guy, but he is revealing himself to be a world-class fool.
He may be a smart guy, but he is revealing himself to be a world-class fool.
There's your winner.
"Anyone that makes less than $150K in this country, has no business voting Republican."
and paid for corporatist who thinks he's glib enough to bullshit his way through all this with smooth talk.
and that assumption is going to backfire on him. He should start dusting off his plans for what he wants to do when his career in public "service" is over. HE isn't going to get a second term.
its all part of this Republican act he's been putting on, he's gotten so into character that he thinks we're stupid enough to fall for it. sorry Obama, wrong party. good luck getting republicans to vote for you.
The "employers" consider their rotten offer of "non" insurance to be a BENEFIT and because of this your wages are not up to where they should be.
Everything is being privatized in this country. The word "PUBLIC" is becoming a dirty word. We are being HAD folks!!!
"The US has an army of 90,000 soldiers in Afghanistan and is spending $100bn a year, but has still been unable to defeat 20,000-25,000 Taliban who receive no pay at all." - Patrick Cockburn
Ding ding! Today's winner!
Rush Limbaugh is what a smart person thinks a stupid bigot sounds like.
as to why they were doing this. He said that the job market is depressed is likely to remain that way for a long time and that employees would be unlikely to vote their sentiments with their feet. I said that amounted to some pretty cynical and opportunistic predation, to which he replied, everybody's doing it. a sociopath's reasoning and rationalization. He was completely happy, saw nothing wrong with it. Told him what goes around comes around.
those executives have no idea, but the company they are running is in an irreversible death spiral. When sociopaths are put in charge of things sooner rather than later, they end up destroying their charge.
A true centrist?
The phrase government bureaucrats is right wing speak to deny the collective action of the citizens.
The phrase insurance company bureaucrats is an interesting turn. It is faux populism in my estimation.
The truth is, he will be giving them a lot more control.
Take the profit motive out of health care.
statusquObama, change you can only pretend in
It just depends on who gets put on the "Health Insurance Rate Authority". Best case scenario, we get a semi-neutered board of well-meaning but out-gunned policy wonks who will valiantly but ineffectually register strong moral objection to the abuses of the health insurance industry. Or, we could have the next Republican President pack the board with cronies and industry sycophants. It will be like the Interior Department coke and hooker parties from five years ago.
but take the insurance companies completely out of the process. They have nothing positive to contribute.
time to take them behind the barn.....
Cue the Kabuki....
Seems kind of dumb to call out insurance companies in your speech and make them your enemy, and then provide them the power to make your deal fail by not including a public option that bypasses them. What kind of strategy is that?
"Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people." ~ Eleanor Roosevelt
its a strategy where you are actually working with the insurance company while pretending to be against them and trying to fool all your constituents. might work for republican drones, but he is obviously confused about who voted for him.
is that 4th dimensional chess we keep hearing that he plays so well.
It's still a privatization scam on behalf of a bunch of criminal racketeers.
Single payer neither practical nor realistic? Bullshit! Another in a long line of shabby and dishonest rationalizations.
If these guys cared one whit about people, they would have stood up for and passed single payer universal healthcare. this....this is a travesty.
Screw him six ways to Sunday. Obama sold us all down river. He can kiss my 2012 vote good bye.
http://www.gp.org/tenkey.shtml
Especially now that it appears there isn't a dime's worth of difference between the Republicans and the Democrats. They are all working for the same boss.
And it ain't us.
"The US has an army of 90,000 soldiers in Afghanistan and is spending $100bn a year, but has still been unable to defeat 20,000-25,000 Taliban who receive no pay at all." - Patrick Cockburn
next time around. If I were an elected Deomcrat, a real Deamocrat, I would immediately change parties.
avalanche of Democrats joining him.
Maybe sooner....
"The US has an army of 90,000 soldiers in Afghanistan and is spending $100bn a year, but has still been unable to defeat 20,000-25,000 Taliban who receive no pay at all." - Patrick Cockburn
and would gladly do so again.
.
I'd love to believe Democrats would follow the lead of Kucinich, but they haven't yet.
are dreams.
Those few democrats with integrity to go green, and it would eliminate decades of time it would take to build that party from the bottom up.
He's gonna WHACK the subsidies (paid to health-insurance-companies), via BUSHCO's Medicare D (2003-reconciliation)!!!!!!
...compared to the subsidies he's starting for everyone because of the individual mandate.
And the only thing holding the cost line is the "Health Insurance Rate Authority" which will have half the authority of a supermarket security guard.
I'll go to jail before paying taxes or tribute to private enterprise. There is nothing in the Constitution that authorizes any branch of the government to compel the payment of de facto taxes or tributes to private entitities. More, the argument that states can require auto insurance isn't equivalent, because driving is a privilege, not a right, and all privileges can be subjected to conditions and restrictions. Massachusettes has a health insurance mandate, and it is equally unconstitutional.
Single payer is "neither practical nor realistic"
Voting Democratic is now neither practical or realistic.
"Anyone that makes less than $150K in this country, has no business voting Republican."
practical or realistic?
Sorry.....
Cue the Kabuki....
.
"Parachutes are allowed in checked or carry-on baggage, but may not be worn in flight."
---Southwest Airlines
You got that right.
Isn't it amazing how many principles can be utterly betrayed through the simple expedient of portraying the act of betrayal as being a savvy example of flexible pragmatism?
.
"The US has an army of 90,000 soldiers in Afghanistan and is spending $100bn a year, but has still been unable to defeat 20,000-25,000 Taliban who receive no pay at all." - Patrick Cockburn
was friggin' prescient.
"neither practical nor realistic" to expect to max out on corporate campaign contributions when you pass a bill that truly helps the average American.
I see nothing that limits the amount of a premium the insurance companies can charge.
If somebody finds this, please post it.
AFAIC, this is the major point that has been missing all along.
Without premium limits, the insurance companies will use the most basic premise of capitalism to keep the riskiest members of the population out of the insurance pool by simply pricing them out of the market.
Sans that by the Rate Czars, the InsCos will find a way to deny simply because they are still in the game.
If there is some sort of high-risk pool, then we have already identified those consumers for the insurance companies to discriminate against.
And if everybody is forced to purchase (is that the case?), then the InsCos just make it impossible for them to get coverage so they will never have the ability to make a claim on it.
The Germans have a 100% privatized healthcare system and a 100% privatized health insurance industry.
It's just heavily regulated by the government.
Maybe they can make this work.
Don't hold your breath.
We're outsourcing everything else anyway...
"Parachutes are allowed in checked or carry-on baggage, but may not be worn in flight."
---Southwest Airlines
...they're doing all our other work. They might as well have a say.
It's not even 50% privatized.
It uses non-profit, standardized and comprehensive public insurance (some higher paid individuals choose to opt out for private insurance) paid for via progressive taxation, whereas Obama's bill relies on for-profit, largely unregulated, shoddy insurance, is very regressive and paid for out-of-pocket. In Germany, hospitals are non-profit and costs are controlled by the state; same with pharmaceuticals; hospitals and pharmaceuticals will remain for-profit under Obama's plan . In addition, Obama killed the drug reimportation bill, which would have lowered costs for medicine and allowed Americans to pay prices comparable to the rest of the world.
Germans pay 8% of their income for medical costs, whereas Americans will be expected to pay on average a whooping 20% of their income for medical costs under the current bill, once co-pays, deductibles, etc are factored in. No comparison to the German system.
WORK.
Germany gets its ass kicked by some real movers and shakers according to WHO -
1 France
2 Italy
3 San Marino
4 Andorra
5 Malta
6 Singapore
7 Spain
8 Oman
9 Austria
10 Japan
11 Norway
12 Portugal
13 Monaco
14 Greece
15 Iceland
16 Luxembourg
17 Netherlands
18 United Kingdom
19 Ireland
20 Switzerland
21 Belgium
22 Colombia
23 Sweden
24 Cyprus
25 Germany
They have these nifty plastic cards there in France. All they do is go to the doctor and give the doctor their "card". The card is swiped in a little machine and POOF!!!, there is all the person's information right there on the computer screen.
The doctor does what he thinks is necessary with the patient and puts the data into the computer, spits the card out and POOF!!!, the billing goes off to where it belongs and a few days later the doctor gets a check!!! Probably the money is direct deposited into his account with one more stroke of a key.
Then if the patient has to check into the hospital to get his herniated disc removed, or have labs done or whatever, POOF!!! there is all the information right there again and on and on it goes....
But we are too fucking STUPID IN THIS COUNTRY TO FIGURE THIS ALL OUT, RIGHT PRESIDENT OBAMA????
Too stupid or TOO UNWILLING????
Where there is a will there is a way, Mr. Obama.
Time for some major demonstrations across this country. We need PNHP, Healthcare NOW! and every other organization in this country to form an coalition and organize in every major city BEFORE THE VOTE IS TAKEN!
Once this passes it will be IMPOSSIBLE TO UNDO IT!!! (Although the Republicans are vowing to start work on repealing it the day after it passes).
WE NEED TO DEMAND AN IMPROVED MEDICARE FOR ALL SYSTEM BEFORE THIS VOTE IS TAKEN!!!!!!!
"The US has an army of 90,000 soldiers in Afghanistan and is spending $100bn a year, but has still been unable to defeat 20,000-25,000 Taliban who receive no pay at all." - Patrick Cockburn
this computerization of records that Obama is pushing is only going to be so that insurance companies can deny coverage more efficiently. Secondarily, it will all feed into the total Information Awareness program that was deemed illegal, but only moved to a different agency under a different name. France uses their system to help people, we will use it to srew them and to facilitate placement of the jackboot upon the necks of the
citizenrysubjectry.this country is a failed state.
emigrating.
secession.
Sorry. One idle whacko threat deserves another.
"I mean Romney is the most conservative on illegal immigration and I don't think Ronald Reagan could get elected in California today."
Ann "Clipped" Coulter
Who am I threatening? You?? I am planning on visiting France and Canada this year to scope things out.
People emigrate all the time when the political or economic situations in their home countries become intolerable. With 1/2 of the populace made up of ignorant red-staters suseptible to corporate-owned media manipulation, only 2 political parties, both representing the corporations and a resultant steadily eroding middle class and increasing wealth disparity, and a supreme court ruling further enshrining the power of corporations over our government, many feel that the situation has indeed become intolerable.
what is intolerable to me is handing the country over to the right wing....which is what will happen if we all leave.
the long Bush years was a sign of your approval of same. Be sure and visit the French part of Canada.
Giant inflatable Beavers are sexier wqhen they speak French.
"I mean Romney is the most conservative on illegal immigration and I don't think Ronald Reagan could get elected in California today."
Ann "Clipped" Coulter
The corporatists have convinced 45% of the people in this country, that this is bad because it's "socialism," even though SS and Medicare are 100 times more popular than any "private" plans.
Instead of the people being able to put two and two together - or just flat out smell the stench of republican bullshit, they demand to keep their half-assed HMO's that they hate.
I only hope and pray the next two generations are a lot sharper than the baby boomers and gen-xer morons.
Rush Limbaugh is what a smart person thinks a stupid bigot sounds like.
.
I want a T-shirt...
"Parachutes are allowed in checked or carry-on baggage, but may not be worn in flight."
---Southwest Airlines
We're #37!!!! w000ooh00oooooooooo!
What is your conceptual, continuity?
Keith or Rachel wear one live on TV.
"Parachutes are allowed in checked or carry-on baggage, but may not be worn in flight."
---Southwest Airlines
Make that three. I'll wear them to work.
It would only cost about a buck or two to have them made. Per shirt.No special graphics. Hmmmmmmmmm?
What is your conceptual, continuity?
I want one.
You were a NASCAR fan.
What is your conceptual, continuity?
.
But Morocco is in at #29!
me-oww!
That's like watching mice on a treadmill.
Or whatever you call those things.
What is your conceptual, continuity?
I apologize in advance for the $10K per shirt price, but I've got to get some health insurance...
"Parachutes are allowed in checked or carry-on baggage, but may not be worn in flight."
---Southwest Airlines
I know you can cut off some of that. 10k?
Geeezz.
Hey put that 1000 bonus gift card form Walmart to it.
Am I the only one who's being told I'm the millionth person. And That I've won a $1000 gift card from Walmart. okaaayyyyyy.
What is your conceptual, continuity?
I'll cut you a deal on by printing #37 on the reverse. Hope you don't mind the cig pocket on the back...
"Parachutes are allowed in checked or carry-on baggage, but may not be worn in flight."
---Southwest Airlines
If only there were models of success we could turn to, some experts from systems that work...after all, we voted in a man who truly acts like he's listening. That's the same as listening, right? Amiright?
Anyhow, link for content, these bastards all have it better than us. http://healthcare-economist.com/2008/04/14/he...
and there are lots and lots and lots of "models for success" from Great Britain, France, Germany, Canada, Japan, Cuba and on and on.
Our leaders are TOO UNWILLING AND TOO ARROGANT TO ACCEPT THAT ALL THESE OTHER COUNTRIES HAVE BETTER HEALTHCARE SYSTEMS THAN WE DO.
(Sorry for yelling....but I'm really pissed).
"The US has an army of 90,000 soldiers in Afghanistan and is spending $100bn a year, but has still been unable to defeat 20,000-25,000 Taliban who receive no pay at all." - Patrick Cockburn
you did my yelling for me.
;)
they've had them for 70 years or so. And Obama's 'forward looking' bill not even begin to move us in the same ballpark with the rest of the world, instead locking in an unsustainable and antiquated system.
Why the Republitards have been against this? The Democrats have just ensured losses in the House and Senate this November...thanks to Democratic voters now also hating the Democratic party. Thanks for nothing.
Title VIII. Community Living Assistance Services and Supports Act (CLASS Act)....
...."It is a self-funded and voluntary long-term care insurance choice...The program will actually reduce Medicaid spending.....Safeguards will be put in place to ensure its premiums are enough to cover its costs."
Sounds like once this becomes 'mandated' we will no longer need medicare or social security....! yaaaa!
Cue the Kabuki....
contains an "estate recovery" clause.
If you own your own home and end up with Medicaid (good luck finding a doctor BTW) and you incur hospital costs etc., your house/assets will be taken by the state to pay for your care.
People do NOT understand what the Democratic Party is about to do to us.
The Democrats are sugar coating this turd of a pill and asking us to swallow it.
No thank you.
"The US has an army of 90,000 soldiers in Afghanistan and is spending $100bn a year, but has still been unable to defeat 20,000-25,000 Taliban who receive no pay at all." - Patrick Cockburn
This whole thing makes me wonder why we can't put communalism into action without the government. Couldn't someone start a company as a middleman between insurers and insurees, pool together a ton of people, as if it were a mega-employer, and get a reduced rate for its member-employees?
Hell, it could even be a nonprofit.
but as soon as it started working and started siphoning paying customers away from the insurance racketeers, they in turn would increase their graft payments to our ever for sale to the highest bidder elected officials, who would promptly "reform" the situation by making it illegal to compete in any way with the gangsters who run the insurance rackets. Just a hunch.
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