O'Reilly and Bob Barr go at it over Obama's anti-terror policies. Of course we get more chest thumping and support for torture out of tough guy O'Reilly.
O'REILLY: Continuing with our lead story. President Obama defending his terror policies. Joining us from Washington, former Congressman Bob Barr who left the Republican party to be a libertarian.
And Mr. Barr, you say the president deserves some respect in the national security area. So do you disagree with Karl Rove and I?
REP. BOB BARR: On some issues, very strong on some, but not on everything. My main criticism of those who are criticizing the president, such as the former vice president, Mr. Cheney, is that I think it's simply politics and partisanship and not substantive criticism, because when you have the vice president from the prior administration criticizing the current administration, really what they're criticizing is themselves because the problems that we see, and I think the president has done a good job of laying out the problems that we have, I disagree with him on some of the solutions. But the problems long predate January 20th of 2009 when Mr. Obama came in.
For example, the problem with the State Department issuing visas when perhaps they shouldn't or not telling people who they've issued visas to was the result of then Secretary Colin Powell early in the Bush administration coming up to the Congress, myself on the Judiciary Committee, for example, and saying don't give the authority to approve visas to Department of Homeland Security. We want to keep it in the State Department.
O'REILLY: Okay, and that's a fair point. And I should correct my grammatical error. It's Karl Rove and me.
But look, you know as well as I do, everybody knows at this point, that the Obama administration has dismantled the Bush-Cheney anti terror apparatus. They've dismantled it. So I don't -- if I were Vice President Cheney, and I assume President Bush will do this in his book, which is going to be out in September, you've got to say, look, this is wrong headed. We had the right policies. We kept America safe after 9/11. Now they're dismantling it and they're putting everybody in danger. As Karl Rove said, that's the responsible thing to say, is it not?
BARR: I don't think they're dismantling it.
O'REILLY: Oh, come on, come on, come on. No coerced interrogation, civilian trials for heinous criminals, closing Guantanamo Bay. And you're saying they're not dismantling it? Come on, Mr. Barr.
BARR: No, those are just some of the outward symbols.
O'REILLY: Those are big! Those are huge! Coerced interrogation ban?
BARR: No, I don't think those are.
O'REILLY: You don't think a ban on coerced interrogation where they broke guys like Ramsey bin Al Shib and Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, and they rounded up hundreds of al Qaeda and stopped plots as big, you don't think that's big?
BARR: Do I think a ban on torture that's already illegal under U.S. law is bad? No, it's not bad. It's the law of this country.
O'REILLY: It's coerced interrogation. And it was ruled that it was all right in some forums. The Justice Department said it was okay.
BARR: Oh, yeah, maybe in some form if you don't break somebody's fingers off, maybe it's okay.
O'REILLY: These are big, Bob, these are big issues. Guantanamo.
BARR: Well, the constitution is big, too.
O'REILLY: Well, it's open to interpretation.
BARR: And you know, this notion that you can sort of dismiss these things as a college constitutional law professor as Governor Palin does, I think speaks to her capabilities and being able to serve in high office.
O'REILLY: I will cede.
BARR: Not all of that.
O'REILLY: .there is some partisanship.
BARR: .I will agree.
O'REILLY: Okay, I will ceded there is some partisanship in the argument.
O'REILLY: But for you to say that Guantanamo, coerced interrogation and civilian trials for the underwear guy, when the military should have him are not big issues, I'm stunned. You're a smart guy. Those are huge issues in protecting us.
BARR: Well, I'm also a former federal prosecutor. I know how the system works. I served in intelligence. I was with the CIA for eight years, Bill. And I know that these systems do work. I don't know why people are so fearful of treating this Nigerian idiot, and that's what he is.
BARR: ...as a criminal. He violated U.S. law over U.S. air space.
O'REILLY: Because you don't get timely intelligence when he's Mirandized. You want to know.
BARR: Actually, he has provided significant intelligence.
O'REILLY: We don't know that.
BARR: Notwithstanding that he's.
O'REILLY: We don't know if he has.
O'REILLY: That's what they say. And then they say he clammed up. It doesn't matter. He should be in the hands of the military. And then after the military is through with him, if you want to debate where he should be tried, that's fine. But they pull him off the plane. And they put him into a federal detention center right away. It just doesn't make any sense.
BARR: Bill, he violated U.S. law. We're not at war with Nigeria.
O'REILLY: No, we're at war with al Qaeda.
BARR: He violated U.S. law.
O'REILLY: And al Qaeda sponsored and trained him. Come on! The president said yesterday we were at war with al Qaeda. He's an al Qaeda guy. You pull him out and you give him to the military. Your argument makes no sense. If we are in a war, and we need urgent information about people killing us, you don't put them in and give them a lawyer. I'll give you the last word.
BARR: Well, first of all, I think our legal system will work properly. I support Mr. Holder on that. But I also think that being at war with somebody requires more than some offhanded remark that oh, we're at war with somebody. If they're serious about it, let them declare war then, Bill.
O'REILLY: All right. I don't argue with that. I think war should have been declared. Bob Barr, everybody. Thank you very much.