House Bill released: Open Thread
By John Amato Thursday Oct 29, 2009 11:00amThe House has released its health care bill. I'm going on a conference call now, so I can't really discuss the bill, but you can read it here with many other links provided.
Mcjoan discusses it here.
House leadership has released this fact sheet on the key elements of the House healthcare reform bill that will begin in 2010 [pdf].
Among the most important of these front-loaded provision are the creation of the high risk pool, extension of COBRA benefits (which should also include some sort of subsidy program, since COBRA rates are often unaffordable, though select groups do receive assistance under the Recovery Act), upping the age that people can be covered by their parents' plans, and the increased funding for Community Health Centers are all very good starts for 2010. The most key for staunching the bleeding in our system, if you will, are the high risk pool and the Community Health Center funding. More of the uninsured will be able to get insurance through the pool and the CHCs, which are absolutely critical to providing care for the uninsured, will at least see some increased ability to do so.
A handful of the reforms will immediately address issues for Medicare beneficiaries, all solid reforms that should also provide some political help in 2010--seniors vote.
Looks like the Blue Dogs won a victory in this bill, but they wanted to kill the public option all together. And remember when the media said the public option was dead completely?
I'm on a conference call with Nancy Pelosi right now. At least she's coming on to discuss it with us for a few minutes. Many politicians would not.
Please leave your thoughts down below.
UPDATE: The House has not respected the PHarma deal cut by the White House and the Speaker is happy about that.
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The bill is nearly 2000 pages I'll check in when I finish it. If it is understandable.
I scrolled over it early this morning.
It seems a cut and paste job of Massachussets' Romneycare and the Baucus bill. No wonder they got out a thousand-page bill in such record time!
Funny thing, the only thing they cut was the Kucinich provision for a single-payer mandate, which passed committee BTW. Funny how our congresscriters can compromise in all sorts of ways when it comes to GOP/Corporate demands, but they are quite the negotiating sharks when it comes to drop liberal proposals.
This stinking pile of Democratic failure/Corporate victory is going to need multiple coats of white washing. Howard Dean now says both the House & Senate Public Option Bills are fine. Howard Dean for months: "We will pass a bill with a robust public option." Let the spin begin.
There was a saying on my college campus: Tri Delta, everyone else has!
You'd also have to be able to refer to all the legislation that is currently on the books that is NOT included in the actual reading of the bill.
Which is why Conyers said he would need at least two attorneys to wade through the bill (and probably DROWN in it.)
As an example, the bill would undoubtedly have to refer to the OBRA legislation from, I believe, 1992. That in itself is thousands of pages.
So, all in all, one would actually have to have access to maybe 50,000 pages or more...to fully understand the bill.
Consider that they've "expanded" Medicaid. This will expand the "estate recovery" clauses from previous federal legislation. Will there be "auto-enrollment" for those who fall into the new Federal Poverty guidelines and who aren't paying attention? It goes on and on.
I keep waiting for Rep. Weiner to bring his amendment (H.R. 676 "Medicare for All") to H.R. 3200 to the House for a full debate/vote. But he's so busy cheerleading for the Obama/Pelosi bill that I cannot IMAGINE either him or Conyers or even Kucinich leading the charge there. I spoke with an aide in Kucinich's office and I am awaiting a call back.
After Pelosi made a deal with Waxman and Weiner for Weiner to DROP HIS AMENDMENT IN COMMITTEE, I would not be the least bit surprised if he did drop it now under pressure and the American people would never have the "historic" debate/and vote on Single Payer they deserve.
Not to mention the fact that the Congressional Budget Office was ordered to "score" H.R. 676. That cost a lot of taxpayer dollars.
I for one want to know the results of that scoring. And furthermore, I expect to see the full House debate and vote on the Weiner amendment to H.R. 3200 PRIOR TO ANY FULL HOUSE VOTE ON THE EXISTING LEGISLATION.
It would be great John if you could get Speaker Pelosi to address these questions.
Thank you,
Abbybwood, R.N.
Member - Physicians for a National Health Program
Hey Abby, as I said, if it is understandable. I am not really expecting to be able to get through it.
HR 676 is twenty seven pages. The more they put in, the more devious things get.
They have doubled the size of HR 3200 so that tells me the lobbyist have been writing up a storm.
More than ever.
on his amendment to substitute language in HR 3200, the current House healthcare reform bill, with the language in HR 676, the Expanded and Improved Medicare for All Act.
Will she honor her promise?
I heard that the leadership was not going to allow amendments to come to a vote in the House.
This press release and conference call seem to confirm it. I am disappointed that the Kucinich amendment was striped.
I believe if states have the option to "opt out" of the "public option" the states should also have the ability to "opt in" to the "Expanded and Improved Medicare for All".
Now that would really be "fair and balanced": The opt out for conservative states, the "public option" for moderate states and the "Expanded and Improved Medicare for All" for the liberal states.
I have been rather sick with the negotiations that start from a point of conceding the moderate stance to conservative viewpoints. It has resulted in having to pull them to the actual political center kicking and screaming giving the impression that the actual middle was a radical left position.
A "strong public option" means different things to different people. Can you be more specific?
Does the plan have a trigger for implementation of the public option?
Does it have an "opt out" provision for the states?
How long until the "public option" is available to consumers?
Who will administer the "public option"; a government agency, or will it be contracted to the "private sector"?
Will the option be able to partner with Medicare to leverage lower payments for services and pharmaceuticals?
Will it be available to people who's employers provide a plan or are already covered and want to switch?
If so, when can they switch?
I guess I will have to read the bill again.
http://www.opencongress.org/bill/111-h3200/show
STOP....ASKING...SO...MANY...FREAKIN'....QUESTIONS!!!!!!
What are you trying to do??? Stir up something???
Pffftttt!!!!!
He was just on "The Ed Show." He will vote for this thing. One of his reasons is that no one can tell what the future will hold. Seeing how most of this does not kick in until 2013, that's glaringly obvious. The future could kill this bill except for the mandatory purchase of private insurance. We're screwed.
I listened to Grayson on "The Ed Show" today, also. His sole point over & over was: "This bill will save lives." Yes, Alan, it will. Many bills would. Grayson sees many of his fellow Reps are corporate owned & the progressive caucus will cave to a corporate owned Senate & President. So, save some lives with this crock of crap. If we accept that a fascist nation is one with a corporate owned government, we can understand why Wall St. is the government.
thanks for your informed remark.
you are probably one who will never read
or comprehend this bill......perhaps
if you do read it then we would be more
receptive to your ld comments.
have a nice day and go read the bill......
BTW, maybe I should inform you that I posted a link to this bill earlier, and I was reading it all morning
http://crooksandliars.com/logan-murphy/kansas...
A nice day to you too, make sure your "concern" doesn't get in the way of applying your own advice, and you too read the bill. I assume you were using the royal "we" right?
until 2013....
....So we got that going for us....
Which will be long after we've forgotten we are "shareholders" in the financial services and auto bailouts and forgotten that we haven't received any checks.
in 2010. The question is, what will that be. Congresspeak. I hate it. English isn't good enough?
"partners"...
much higher premiums via the insurance industry.
The Democrats will be screwing us, along with their corporate owned Republican brothers thru the health care bill. Part of the bill requires that in 2010 all the uninsured that will be mandated to buy inurance be provided with a gallon of Vaseline for personal use.
... the dangers of contempt prior to investigation.
I haven't read through the bill.
But, my criticism is entirely about the Democrats' ability to deliver on this incomplete product. They've got an abysmal track record right now.
No wonder these people can never get anything done. My first complaint is that they have a table of contents with no references to any page numbers. I have a cramp in my hand from scrolling through 500 plus pages. My next complaint is that they reference things that the reader who is not a member of Congress has no access to. How in the hell are you supposed to read it? Oh, wait...I guess you aren't supposed to read it. I get it now.
I bookmark the sections in Acrobat, but you need the commercial version.
the document viewer does it out of the box.
I do have a Mac but I have Acrobat 5 which is an antique. I am not seeing the bookmarks. Either in Acrobat or Preview. That would help immensely.
It is free, works on OSX. Allows to open PDFs and keep track of bookmarks and notes on the document itself.
http://skim-app.sourceforge.net/index.html
Thank you. 1.3.2 requires OS X 1.5 which I have but don't use so I downloaded 1.2.7 which works with OS X 1.4. I am forever a day late and a dollar short.
that I'll need to read it?
Try some medical marijuana. That'll make it fun.
Somehow I knew that the "public option" would be a bridge too far for a political system as corrupt and ossified as the US system.
As a Canadian who knows well the benefits of a single payer public system, I send my condolences to all my American friends who have been once again let down by their bought-off politicians.
Do you guys have any more room for me up there? I know you all get a lot of requests.
Come up and join us, eh!
;)
I guess I'll have to keep on wishing I was much younger, or a few years older, or able to get a job with insurance benefits. In the meantime, looks like I'll just keep slowly going broke paying for health insurance.
What happened to HR676?
on booze. Paying for health insurance is out of the question.
making a big fuss AGAIN. Well, Democracy isn't a quiet sit-down game is it?
We must be LOUDER and meaner than the effing "BlooDogs" Eff Them. Sideways. With a _________!
guess we could use the stick they
just used on us.
?!
... unimpressed. Producing a bill is nothing. It needs to get to Obama's desk with all of its guts intact, not in sodden heap that needs to be kept in a plastic baggie.
I lost faith in the Democrats and Obama when they fucked up on FISA. Since then, it's been a steady parade of tough talk and folding/conceding/waffling.
What a load of crap.
You got screwed.
Hey, I like it. No doubt I'm not the first, but just the same, it's pretty good.
OT but important: I had my 12 year old daughter immunized against Swine Flu a few days ago. Yesterday I took her & her girlfriend to the Mall. The girlfriend said Her parents weren't going to have her immunized because there were SO MANY STORIES about people dying from the inoculation. Is this true? I'm not worried about my daughter, she's fine. But I was surprised- I haven't heard a thing (unusual) about the vaccine. I'm a little worried for my kid's friend.
I'm always hearing people say "I got the flu from a flu shot." Baloney.
Here's the CDC page on H1N1 vaccine safety.
I doubt anyone's going to die from it. My big issue is that it's heavily, heavily adjuvanted and not properly tested (A 6-week trial is medically useless when the symptoms of squalene poisoning, for example, don't begin to present until around 6 months after it's introduced to the body).
And despite manufacturer claims that squalene is perfectly safe, I am leery of putting it into my body. Especially given that the feds have helpfully 'immunized' vaccine manufacturers from any legal consequences for any harmful effects the H1N1 vaccine may have.
So, we've got an untested cocktail of adjuvants being injected into us, and no legal recourse if it messes us up. Even if the risk of serious, lifelong side effects is 0.001%...
There's an unadjuvanted vaccine that'll be perfectly safe. It's just pricey.
Two-tier medicine. Who ranks?
It seems the US version of the vaccine is without the adjuvant in question (though Europe has it).
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1256670794553...
healthcare on unfunded hearsay.
Then again, you should make sure your kid is not nearby her friend when her family attempts yet another entry for the Darwin Awards.
Best go with funded hearsay. :)
.
of American mallrats and French Cow lovers... I always go with the ones which make the tastier cheese.
they are so beautiful.
New Jersey was not an improvement...
.
new squalene when they approve it.
I'm very healthy, don't get out much &c. But many more people, especially kids die from the flu than they do the shot. The CDC says the death rate from the shot is negligible. About 4 people are dying a day from swine flu, and it's exponentially higher for the regular flu.
Don't worry. If your kid is going to school and the mall, she's much better off getting the shot.
... remember that it is a two shot deal, since you need the booster.
The good thing about getting kids vaccinated is that it also helps the parents immune system by exposure.
and she liked it. The nurse said DON'T sniff- they want the vaccine to stay in the sinus cavities and be absorbed into the body. I got the "regular" flu shot, people my age not yet getting the H1 vaccine around here.
Funny thing about my daughter's friend: Her parents are crazily over-protective to her. So they WON'T give her the inoculation! Paradoxical. Or dumb.
Also, on the main topic, tell Nancy Sid says hi.
Fred Ethel as well.
Fred! I haven't seen you since, well, that night with Nancy.
Man, what a night. I had no idea her political flexibility extended to, well, other areas.
If any of you read all 2000 pages it will more that most of the people who will be voting on it.
... we could say the same of those who make past the cover sheet.
The lobbyist who wrote it, read it.
Right now Evan Byah and Joe Lieberman are probably in some undisclosed location figuring out how they can further sabotage an already sabotaged bill.
Naaah...they're comparing notes to sort out which insurance lobbyist each is responsible for blowing this week.
My comments to members of Congress and the president:
"There shouldn't be any celebrating today.
12 million people will be without health insurance.
That's a death sentence.
But, what the heck ... just collateral damage.
Wonder how much more collateral damage those various vile characters in the Senate will accept.
Americans (including tax payers) have given each of you, and all federal employees, access to health care with fantastic, comprehensive, health insurance. You all don't deserve it."
120 will die today and tomorrow…
The day after…
ETC ETC
Because they don't have insurance.
2/3 of ALL bankruptcies are the result of family medical catastrophies ...
Obviously that number is not sufficiently high enuf to properly motivate the American People.
Perhaps when the ratio gets to 4/5ths we will get real action.
I'll take some of this;
2. IMMEDIATE HELP FOR THE UNINSURED UNTIL EXCHANGE IS AVAILABLE (INTERIM HIGH-RISK POOL)
an a little bit of that;
BANS LIFETIME LIMITS ON COVERAGE—
Most definatly have some of this;
11. CREATES NEW, VOLUNTARY, PUBLIC LONG-TERM CARE INSURANCE PROGRAM—Creates a long-term care insurance
program to be financed by voluntary payroll deductions to provide benefits to adults who become functionally disabled.
Some of it sounds good, wonder how many hoops will be put in my way by my friends the EvilJelloKills.
What the hell did you expect? Watch Bill Moyers tell you the truth.
http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/10092009/wa...
... the better our chances of getting a good bill in the long run.
A bad bill is worse than no bill.
No personal insult intended, but I really have to disagree with the whole, "A bad bill is better than no bill" meme. A bad bill has the potential to cause more harm than good for most people. A bad bill could allow insurance and drug companies to continue to rake in obscene profits at the expense of healthcare for all.
I am reminded of a memo I once read from the Federal DOT regarding volunteer ambulance service in rural areas, it said, "Despite some avoidable deaths and obvious attendant errors, poor service is better than no service" Not if you are the person who died.
"
a Bad Bill ("Bad Bill", heh) can be made better?
Is sometimes defined as doing the same thing under the same conditions over and over, while expecting a different result regardless of the mounting evidence to the contrary.
When has a bill ever got "better" during its passage through the houses?
I don't think the bill would get better by itself.
... and bills, unlike wine, do not get better with the passage of time in both houses. They get either diluted or overhauled with crap.
Think of it as the foundation for a house, you can't put out a fabela and expect to be able to build a skyscrapper with just some coats of pain.
Bills need to be very structurally sound to be able to weather the legislative onslaught that they have to go through. Thinking that we have to support a crappy bill in hopes that somehow our representatives do the right thing later on, you know when they won't have any incentive to do so, it is naive to the extreme.
A key rule of negotiation is to ask for the stars in order to get the moon. This piece of crap is already a massive compromise, and now there is nowhere to go but to add more compromise... ridiculous.
No. A bad bill is just that, a bad bill. This thing is so watered down, it's a g*d-d*mned travesty. It's a giant f*ck you to the uninsured. Why is it that the people who pay taxes and don't have insurance, but their tax money pays the politicians' salaries and they DO have insurance. The system is f*cking broken and needs to be fixed. Either give America the REAL health care bill it needs, or find someone(s) who will and vote out the bastards that are standing in the way.
Damn it!
no? then it sucks.
Not sure where it ended up though.
If the Dow holds those gains, it would mark the largest one-day point gain since July 15....
UNH UnitedHealth Group Inc. NYSE USD 26.47 +0.59 2.28%
AET Aetna Inc. NYSE USD 26.65 +1.33 5.25%
WLP WellPoint, Inc. NYSE USD 47.50 +1.21 2.61%
HUM Humana Inc. NYSE USD 38.73 +2.05 5.59%
HNT Health Net, Inc. NYSE USD 15.51 +0.81 5.51%
HS HealthSpring, Inc NYSE USD 14.55 +2.25 18.29%
CVH Coventry Health Care, ... NYSE USD 20.91 +1.61 8.34%
...the "health" insurance companies seem to like the plan...
Swell.
.
UPDATE: The House has not respected the PHarma deal cut by the White House and the Speaker is happy about that.
Whaaah...The Speaker is crying cause she's the leader of the House and no one will play house with her.
Give her a binky and tell her to move aside.
a 50% discount on brand name drugs? I'm crying on the inside.
are going to be having to work to pay for their meds. And they get to get some of that wonderful winter fresh air on their way to work at the ripe age of 85!
It is a blessing in disguise really...
.
The gist of my point is that she has no control over her membership, including her own party. She has not control over the House. She's weak, ineffective and basically way out of her league.
Just like Harry Reid.
... I am just trying to see a silver lining somewhere, anywhere really.
You know when life gives you lemons and all that...
Since the "public option" exchange doesn't kick in until 2013 (and that's assuming it doesn't get rescinded by a potential Republican majority in 2010/2012) how about caps on current insurance premium increases?
That would be nice.
to accept those with preexisting conditions, they should be free to maintain their profit margin by covering the cost of coverage for those
loserssick individuals with higher premiums for thesuckersotherforcedsubscribers to our health plans.Are you nuts?!?!?!?!??!?!?!?!?
Hallelujah ! "a high risk pool" as in the Insurance companies get off the hook from having to cover high risk people and Uncle Sam covers them ? Increased funding for Community health centers ? A Cobra extension ? Oh yeah , this is big time change baby !The corrupt whores are too many and they will prevail , count on it , looks like they already have . Well , we may as well assume our accustomed positions ... bend over folks !
when he said we may have to think about forming a third party if we can't get decent healthcare reform done. Guess what Dennis...
Will the new party be called the Greys or the Greens? I can hardly wait to see what the Party mascot will be.
the prospect of voting for the Fighting Hippies seems an improvement over the current R-D dynamic duo from hell.
Heck if the party is going to be of the green/tree hugging persuasion, they could do like Stanford and hold auditions for mascots from people showing up with their home made tree costumes.
I actually miss going to Big Game and fight for seats close enough to the Stanford line, so that we could throw crap at the tree guy running around. By the time the game came in the season, the home made costume (made the night before the audition with the help of caffeine and pot so I was told) was barely holding. It was actually a funny sight, and their marching band did their part to make their team look even more ridiculous...
I would actually enjoy that...
The Blue Party?
... count me in.
Sounds like...Victory.
I would vote for a third party candidate instead of what we are now and will be offered.
I am a senior, and on Medicare, and I would ask my Congressional reps to vote against this bill, even though I am 100% for Universal Health Care, as the $500 or so Billion cutback in Medicare payouts would cause more Dr.s and Hospitals to not accept Medicare patients.
Advantage plans. I know what you mean, though. If they cut payments to doctors any further, Medicare will become the same as Medicaid. Hardly anyone will want to accept it. One of my doctors told me that, and I believe his is correct.
The few tokens were nice, but we got screwed and Bill Moyer’s was right on point.
No choice for me, I' am locked in and now there's a Mandate on staying LOCKED In and I get to pay more and more until this mythical "exchange appears" and that's if the EXCHANGE it doesn't get cut out in the next 4 to 5 years.
I get nothing now, I get to keep paying high co-pays and % of coverage and I get to stay away from my Doctor, because I cannot talk to her and if I ask her anything out side of the putrid coverage, she charges me up the kazoo.
This Bill sucks, fairly large…. Oh and the other Bills suck as well. Well still reading maybe it get better... the screwing I' am mean
From Kos: The House would be open to everyone by 2015.
The House bill would expand access to the new health insurance exchange fairly rapidly. In year one, 2013, only individuals without employer provided insurance and the “smallest” employers (25 or fewer employees) would have access to the exchange. In year two, 2014, “smaller” employers (50 or fewer employees) could access the exchange. By year three, 2015, all “small” employers (100 or fewer employees) would gain access to the exchange, and the exchange Commissioner could permit larger employers (greater than 100 employees) to be eligible for the exchange.
In theory, by 2015 all employers, and therefore all Americans not on Medicare or Medicaid, could start using the new health insurance exchange for health care. This would give nearly everyone the ability to choose the public option if they wanted. Of course, that would rely on the Commissioner deciding to throw open the exchange to every business, as well as all large employers choosing to provide coverage through the exchange.
1. Government pays for all health care through pooled taxes based on income.
2. Everyone is covered for everything.
How hard was that?
it's impossible.
most people are either sinking financially or barely holding on or already sunk.
allocating 1.3 Billion to bribe the Taliban to "fight for us".
Go figure.
Taxes will be based on income., if that's what you are talking about. If not, what then?
end up being cheaper. When the economy is going through hardships IT IS the best time to implement something that cuts costs.
Unfortunately, we have these assholes in charge.
Empty the House and Congress. Start from scratch. Let's get it right this time.
missed another snark there girl.
.
Not that I will EVER vote for a Repug but I am officially DONE with the Dems . We've a choice between the dysfuntional cluster puck Dems , one third of them who are absolutely corrupt or the 100 % corrupt Repugs .At least three fourths of our "Reps" are bought off , until this "legal corruption" is banned nothing will change , will these crooks create laws that will ban themselves from taking bribe money and filling their pockets ? Good friggin luck ! That's it for me , not one more dime and not one more vote . Dennis is right , we need to start from scratch with a third party .
It looks like the Senate is the only thing that can stop this monstrosity. Otherwise look forward to higher premiums, more taxes and a higher debt.
Washington post breaking news : more than thirty law makers and their aides are under investigation for influence peddling and being bribed . There was a leak in the DOJ according to the post .
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