Maybe Eric Holder Should Pay Attention To Dick Cheney's Boasts
Yoo hoo, Mr. Holder! Gee, after reading this post by Scott Horton, it seems like Dick Cheney is just asking to be prosecuted - why not give him what he wants?
After he was indicted for the murder of Alexander Hamilton, vice president Aaron Burr fled to South Carolina, to hide out with his daughter. Another vice president, Spiro Agnew, kept completely silent before pleading nolo contendere on corruption charges. Former vice president Dick Cheney, on the other hand, seems proud of his criminal misadventures. On Sunday, he took to the airwaves to brag about them.
“I was a big supporter of waterboarding,” Cheney said in an appearance on ABC’s This Week on Sunday. He went on to explain that Justice Department lawyers had been instructed to write legal opinions to cover the use of this and other torture techniques after the White House had settled on them.
Section 2340A of the federal criminal code makes it an offense to torture or to conspire to torture. Violators are subject to jail terms or to death in appropriate cases, as where death results from the application of torture techniques. Prosecutors have argued that a criminal investigation into torture undertaken with the direction of the Bush White House would raise complex legal issues, and proof would be difficult. But what about cases in which an instigator openly and notoriously brags about his role in torture? Cheney told Jonathan Karl that he used his position within the National Security Council to advocate for the use of waterboarding and other torture techniques. Former CIA agent John Kiriakou and others have confirmed that when waterboarding was administered, it was only after receiving NSC clearance.
Hence, Cheney was not speaking hypothetically but admitting his involvement in the process that led to decisions to waterboard in at least three cases.
amazes me. The gravitas with which he flaunts his exploits. Come on Obama administration, go get him!
When someone admits to a crime, it's customary to arrest and try them. If this son of a bitch is found guilty, I hope there's a hanging tree nearby...
"This guy amazes me. The gravitas with which he flaunts his exploits. Come on Obama administration, go get him!"
Come on! You don't REALLY expect the Obama administration to go after Dick Cheney, now, do you? The Obama administration are DEMOCRATS, and the whole world knows that DEMOCRATS are so lily-livered and gutless that they are afraid of their own shadows.
But I agree with you. Let's vote a lot of Independents into office this fall and give THEM a chance to do what needs to be done.
Because since Obama is now knee deep in torture of his own making, even if Bush/Cheney/Yoo/Rice & Co. were indicted and convicted of being accomplices to torture, OBAMA WOULD SIMPLY PARDON THEM!!!
Move along. Nothing to see here.
They're ALL "going along to get along".
The real question here is: What do all of us patriotic, truth and justice seeking Americans intend to do about this nasty problem we are all facing?
Suggestions??
I'll give you one: A total overthrow of the entire House of Representatives this fall along with the third of the Senate who are up for re-election. (I would consider not targeting Kucinich, Paul, Kaptur and a few others...) That would be good for starters. We just need ANYBODY new to walk in to those chambers to take the oath to the Constitution so long as they are not corporately controlled!!
Things need to be shaken up from the foundation! No more diddling around the edges of this monumental problem we are facing! I believe we are in a Constitutional crisis NOW!!!
Time to face the music square on and jump into the fray!!!
"The US has an army of 90,000 soldiers in Afghanistan and is spending $100bn a year, but has still been unable to defeat 20,000-25,000 Taliban who receive no pay at all." - Patrick Cockburn
guilt? Cheney feels guilt? Maybe he wants to have that heart attack the repubs blubbered about in 1999 so his daughters can inherit his billions, untaxed and buy his share of the Dr. Goebbels Award for FOX.
Yoo who?
John Yoo!
John Ya Ya
John Smallberries
John Big Boute...
Dick Cheney is now an ADMITTED war criminal. Do your job, Holder, or resign.
The people of privilege will always risk their complete destruction rather than surrender any material part of their advantage." J.K. Galbraith
.
If he honestly felt he was serving the American people and the Constitution, heads would already be rolling, including Obama's.
"The US has an army of 90,000 soldiers in Afghanistan and is spending $100bn a year, but has still been unable to defeat 20,000-25,000 Taliban who receive no pay at all." - Patrick Cockburn
Does Dick Cheney have any other mode besides evil?
Unfortunately, while he probably should be prosecuted, it won't happen. The Obama administration appears to find it more important to bring everyone to the table always rather than to uphold the values and the spirit of the US Constitution. Also, if they did decide to, the Teabaggers would go even more insane. They WOULD probably begin to get violent at that point and I'm fairly sure Dick Cheney knows this is the near impossible situation he's maneuvered into to prevent himself from being prosecuted.
In order to maybe help President Obama understand what Dick Cheney is, he's Lex Luthor, with quite a bit less humanity.
Back in December 2008 Cheney admitted authorizing torture. WTF???
Cheney seems to be almost daring the Obama administration to come after him. He knows that something like that would suck up all the air in the US at a time when there are so many other problems that need immediate attention.
Say what you mean. Mean what you say. But don't say it mean.
that those other problems will never be seriously addressed while the criminals of the Bush regime remain at large. You won't see much of anything in this country get better until those guilty of the worst crimes in America's legal code(war of aggression and torture) are prosecuted.
little more in depth: http://www.consortiumnews.com/2010/021410.html
Robert Parry is a real journalist.
One of the best ever.
I think most people are aware by now that Eric Holder loves him some torture and hates America's laws every bit as much as his terror pal Dick. If the case were anything else at all the felony and capital criminals of the Bush regime would have been arrested a year ago.
Maybe we should stop pretending like there's something that could happen that would get Cheney prosecuted.
Maybe his home videos of him raping and murdering children will surface and that will be the final straw? Nope.
Cheney will live out the rest of his natural life in luxury and never want for anything (except maybe a heart that works properly - which he'll get).
A lot of people are bashing Cheney and pushing for his prosecution. All those people are being ignored by those who can actually do anything.
So Cheney gets on TV to flip those people off and laugh on the way home.
Personally, I'd rather bury my head in the sand and not be reminded of Cheney because there is nothing that can happen, nothing that can be revealed, nothing Cheney can do that will result in him being prosecuted.
Seeing an article or blog entry every other day that pretends like there's even the tiniest bit of hope just puts the sound of little Dick Cheney's laughter front and center.
the STONES. They might debate it for about a year, but in the end nothing will get accomplished
what guides your body of thought on this issue.
Pears find difficult purchase in rocky climes.
"I mean Romney is the most conservative on illegal immigration and I don't think Ronald Reagan could get elected in California today."
Ann "Clipped" Coulter
What am I not understanding about this waterboarding thing and its relation to torture? Japanese were tried and convicted for torturing soldiers. The torture they did was waterboarding. The people prosecuting and convicting them were Americans. Why is Dick Cheney not in jail?
he had his administrations lawyers publish their opinions that waterboarding was not torture. basically they say it is not so it must not be and anyone that should or could prosecute them won't do it.
From the Washington Post:
And more:
More from another article:
There is much much more and easy to find. Why is Cheney not in jail???????????
Because contrary to the Constitution you know that document that Obummer pays lip service to all men and corporations are not equal. Some are special. Dick Cheney has been special for a long time.
nothing will happen in this country to prosecute anyone in Bush Co. for the torture and other crimes. This is how and why Dick can go on TV and boast and brag, he knows that nothing will happen. I repeat, nothing will happen. No one with the power to do anything about it actually has the politial courage to do what is right and what is needed. Nothing is going to happen.
But with that said, I would be amazed if any Bush Co. torture peddlers ever left this country again. Because outside of America there are organization with the power and courage to prosecute war crimes.
at the highest level of the Bush administration fixated or afflicted?
Some, not all, of the commenters here who call for prosecution are also ones who readily disparage high officials of both parties and throw around terms like traitor with a casualness that is both amusing and frightening. They generally seem posssessed with a notion of pervasive malevolence in society, business, government and the general populace. If they are right, then they should understand that prosecution is not going to happen.
If you happen to think, as I do, that crimes these people committed
were done by people acting in their official capacity with some semblance of civic motivation, then their prosecution becomes a dilemma. There is nothing that would inflame an already highly volatile body politic faster than an administration which attempted to try the leaders of the preceding regime for crimes alleged to have been committed in the name of the United States for the purpose of keeping its citizens safe. It never has happened in our history. It is not going to happen now.
It is not going to happen. Get over it.
"I mean Romney is the most conservative on illegal immigration and I don't think Ronald Reagan could get elected in California today."
Ann "Clipped" Coulter
Cheney has never acted with any sense of "civic motivation". He's a greedy piece of shit.
... and paint the Obama Adm as soft on terror, civically motivated?
Wasn't he one of the people who thought that Obama's civic experience was a bad thing?
When George W. gave Cheney the "job" of finding him a V.P.
And Cheney chose HIMSELF! for the job.
Heh.
"The US has an army of 90,000 soldiers in Afghanistan and is spending $100bn a year, but has still been unable to defeat 20,000-25,000 Taliban who receive no pay at all." - Patrick Cockburn
should not be an option. i agree with the majority of what you say, but we should never get over such crimes committed under the pretence of keeping us safe. we need to remain pissed off and outspoken to let our administrations know that this is unacceptable. to get over it would only invite more unchecked abuse of power.
... but laws appear to have been broken and we are, or are supposed to be a nation of laws. It is hard for me to imagine Republicans setting on their hands if the Clinton Adm had done this.
While retribution, in this case, is hard to deny, 1/2 of Americans believe water-boarding is acceptable under certain conditions. It is not. This is why I support a public examination of the facts.
I have long since given up on the notion that moral instruction of public is possible nor totally desireable. I think the best benefit to be derived is to convince the 1/2 of whom you speak that torture simply does not work and in fact is counter productive.
"I mean Romney is the most conservative on illegal immigration and I don't think Ronald Reagan could get elected in California today."
Ann "Clipped" Coulter
Had this been a war that fit the description of other wars, one that could possibly end, then perhaps we might look back and do the right legal thing. But this war, a war on "terror" can have no logical end. There will always be some form of terror somewhere. The hue and cry of going after the past veep during a time of war just isn't going to happen. I'm just about over it.
Say what you mean. Mean what you say. But don't say it mean.
.... would the GOP have had less energy for defeating health care, etc. if they were on the defensive for war crimes?
But if you believe what they did to be morally wrong, as I do and I think you do, then to use prosecution of immoral acts for other, unrelated political benefits kind of invites the very future misuse or abuse of the act of prosecution.
And as a practical aside, my bet is that with the money involved in the health care fight, all the GOP and their Dem allies who were not lawyered up and in the dock for crimes would fight with the best energy money could buy regardless of what was going on in the background on the torture front.
"I mean Romney is the most conservative on illegal immigration and I don't think Ronald Reagan could get elected in California today."
Ann "Clipped" Coulter
Would the country have more energy for passing health care if it was embroiled in a trial of the ex president and vice president for war crimes? Something like that would suck the air out of everything in this country. I don't want to even think how politically ugly things would quickly become. Sure it would be great if both cheney and bush were brought to justice, but like Ricky said, the public has been worked into such a frightened lather that they can no longer see things rationally. All they care about is being kept safe by any means.
Say what you mean. Mean what you say. But don't say it mean.
there is no longer a United States of America. Only a terror exporting nation using that name.
... my question is hypothetical, and you might be right as well.
Yes, the trials would be seen by some as politically motivated, but what isn't?
I could maybe get over this if Dickless McHeartstent would STFU about it.
out of the health care debate..'...
Seems to me the air was sucked out of the health care debate long ago.And the so-called 'debate' was let to go on so no one would dare bring up the war crimes thing.....
is what they did "pissed off pat" and that is exactly what they intended to do, shock us with the twin towers going down, (not by airplanes mind you),so they could put through Congress anything they wanted and fully supported by a shocked public. Rah-rah bush...oh and just in case you have any doubts or reservations we'll just send you some anthrax; a little more shock to let some know how serious we are. If you haven't read "The Shock Doctrine" I implore you to do so and you will be VERY PISSED OFF Patricia.
then our nation is lost.
when the first native was slain for land and the first slave hit our shores to work what was stolen.
"I mean Romney is the most conservative on illegal immigration and I don't think Ronald Reagan could get elected in California today."
Ann "Clipped" Coulter
We need to surrender to the reality of what we’ve collectively done and become utterly willing to learn.
LuLu
I don't like it. Should they be taken to trial for their deeds? Yes. Absolutely. Will they? No.
It will never happen. The backlash from a trial would be so bad, it just might start a civil war.
But someone should say something. Make clear that what these people have done is/was wrong and illegal.
They shouldn't be able to just get let off without any repercussions.
Something has to be done. We are a nation of laws. They ignored these laws. They should be brought to justice. The thing is, at what cost?
Are we willing to go through, what I would think would be a fairly good amount of civil unrest? And what do we do with the people who cause this unrest? More trials? More unrest.
Cheney knows what he's doing. He knows he can't be touched. He's still trying to control the message. He's still trying to manipulate the public at large. He'll get his comeuppance. Not soon enough for me tho.
What is your conceptual, continuity?
...glorifying and justifying their war crimes.
This gives the United States two black eyes.
What do we do with a guy like Cheney? What do we do with his fan club? At the very least, he should be .....how should I put this...........cross examined by the media. But I won't hold my breath on that one. The media needs to be called out vociferously for their partisan hackery. The media no longer serves the public's interests. They have their own agenda.
With this current status quo, this nation is lost.
What is your conceptual, continuity?
boy Howdy! Of all the things the general public has lost, I miss the MSM the most.
I hold the media responsible now. They could make an issue of this. But they won't.
I sure am glad we have blogs like C&L and others.
Think about what it would be like if the blogosphere was shut down?
Of course, the freeper sites would still be up and running.
What is your conceptual, continuity?
But the Bush/Cheney regime did NOT keep their citizens safe. An argument that I had with a wingnut was about 9/11...I stated that IF 9/11 WASN'T a LIHOP...then just be being so 'incompentent' that whole bunch should have been thrown out of office that next week...even Bush says in "9/11: Press For Truth" that he ASKED for that August 6, 2001 PDB for crying out loud.
...ASKED, he said. I thought the President was GIVEN those every day if not more than once a day, and there was NO 'asking' to see it.
But whether one believes it was 'incompentence', LIHOP, or MIHOP, they certainly did NOT keep their citizen's safe.
Is that your version of Chuck Todd's "political food fight"? Please ricky, just what horrible things would happen if "the body politic" were to become "inflamed"?
As for torture prosecutions of those who claim public safety as a motivation: yes, prosecutions have happened and they are happening right now. In 1983 the Reagan Justice Department convicted a Sheriff and four deputies for using water torture. Their excuse: they were only doing it to protect the public.
Chicago police officer/torturer John Burge is currently being prosecuted for lying about torture (the statute of limitation on torture had run out).
We have prosecuted torture - even when the torturers claimed they were acting in the public interest. In fact, I can't think of an historical example where the torturers didn't claim they were acting for a higher purpose - they always claim that.
And "some, not all, commenters" feel that's perfectly appropriate. They are so terrified of the bogeyman of the month that there is simply no principle, no value they won't sacrifice for the illusion of safety - or to protect their Manichean world view where Obama fuctions as the current "good guy" who can do no wrong.
Corruption favors the wealthy.
I think the irony of this situation will come full circle when the next Republican presidency (whenever that is) prosecutes the Obama administration for war crimes. Of course, they will claim that this violation of law needs to be prosecuted for the betterment of the
Republican partycountry.The media will most likely ignore the fact that Obama continued the policies set forth by Bush/Cheney and any discussion of including the prior administration will be dismissed as partisan politics or playing the "blame game".
I can't say I'd be shocked.
... for the rest of his life. The way he's going, he's fer sure gonna get nailed next time he's on foreign soil, like Pinochet did.
And what's all this bullshit about "we are a nation of laws"???
When was that ever true except in cherry-picked cases (mostly poor people)?
to watch the US slow degeneration into a pariah nation, where laws and human decency only hypocritically apply to other countries in an arbitrary fashion. Also, to all those who were saying that waterboarding isn't so bad, kind of like hazing; waterboarding is FORCED upon someone who really wants no part in it. Torture happens when you force an unpleasant experience on someone, basically degrading the victim into an inferior position to the one you attribute yourself. I don't care what soulless republican lawyers say; even a slap behind the head of a tied up prisoner, from a soldier, is physically repulsive to me. How waterboarding can get a cheering section on mainstream tv is really telling of the morality of a so-called christian nation.
"Torture happens when you force an unpleasant experience on someone"
It then follows that the imperialist empire is a terrorist.
http://www.commondreams.org/view/2010/02/13-0
So I won't. ricky?
behind the head of a prisoner by a soldier physically repulsive?
To what end? To convince them beating is acceptable?
"I mean Romney is the most conservative on illegal immigration and I don't think Ronald Reagan could get elected in California today."
Ann "Clipped" Coulter
To convince them that torture is acceptable and necessary.
You know, to keep us safe and to avoid "inflaming the body politic."
Corruption favors the wealthy.
You nailed it; How waterboarding can get a cheering section on mainstream tv is really telling of the morality of a so-called christian nation.
By claiming to be a "so-called christian nation" that gives cover for doing whatever they please. I mean a good chistian nation wouldn't torture people would they? So obviously what we do to people can't be torture.
That's not how I see it, but that's how I think it's used to justify a lot of things that are just plain wrong.
Say what you mean. Mean what you say. But don't say it mean.
Since America is "the good guys" whatever they do is OK.
Cheney will be prosecuted about the same time Kissinger is.
I.E.: Never the 12th.
If so, thank Jesus. You'll be joining him in heaven.
"I mean Romney is the most conservative on illegal immigration and I don't think Ronald Reagan could get elected in California today."
Ann "Clipped" Coulter
.... that there have been more people killed in the name of Christ than for any other reason. Not sure if that is factual, but I see every day, people so full of the "good book" thinking that because of this they can judge others. I try to have a "to each his own" attitude towards religion, but it has no place in government, of that I am quite sure.
Yep, you are correct, "I try to have a "to each his own" attitude towards religion, but it has no place in government, of that I am quite sure."
It was the politicians that passed judgement on Christ, so how can anyone of the cloth and faith be involved in government? The two definitely do not mix, although history reveals they work together, manipulating the people.
There will be no prosecutions of previous war crimes because the entire perpetual war machine which enabled those crimes is still in place.
Dismantle the perpetual war machine. Investigate and prosecute where indicated.
-----
Democracy Now 2/02/10 here
------
An area of recurring interest to me is the propaganda machinery available and the uses made of it by the ruling class.
Calling a crime a technicality is the first step in a defense, but they are skipping that step entirely.
By advertising torture so openly they are mainstreaming the concept.
Torture is a crime. At it least it use to be a crime. It still would be for anyone but the ruling class.
A variation of something said by a great man:
—Frederick Douglass
statusquObama, change you can only pretend in
I found the article at the basis of the interview, written by Arnand Gopal, interesting and disturbing. The article does not justify the headline, however, alleging a "new" US torture site.
"I mean Romney is the most conservative on illegal immigration and I don't think Ronald Reagan could get elected in California today."
Ann "Clipped" Coulter
…Investigation Unearths New US Torture Site, Abuse Allegations…
Torture Site and Abuse should be read together, and together they are allegations.
The headline would thus be understood and justified.
Though I will read it again.
statusquObama, change you can only pretend in
Frogmarch 'em!!
from your lips to Santa's ears. Obviously God has not been listening.
to us, anyway.
...bigger criminal is here; Cheney, who admits to his crimes on national television or Holder, who refuses to prosecute him.
"...bigger criminal is here: (...)"
sad, but I have to agree. Really depressing. Doesn't President Obama realize that was part of the reason we were so behind that 'Change' thing!
"bigger criminal is here; Cheney, who admits to his crimes on national television or Holder, who refuses to prosecute him."
They are complicit, from what I read, torture is still active. The non prosecution for torture opens the flood gates for police torture in our country; once the people of this country accepts torture for some, they will acept torture for all.
Hell, NOTHING was up and running when 9/11 happened DICK! Dick doesn't wanna look at the past....I'LL BET! Someone needs to tell this guy he's not the puppet President anymore. Why doesn't one of these interviewers ask Dick why, since HE really ran the country the previous 8 years and CAUSED all these messes, where he gets off coming on tv and criticizing his predecessor for trying to patch the world back together.
mcnairbo says: "Dick doesn't wanna look at the past...."
Newsflash: Neither does Obama.
Obama regarding any criminality of Bush/Cheney: "We need to look to the future now, not to the past."
Obama is one of them. They're all on the same team.
"The US has an army of 90,000 soldiers in Afghanistan and is spending $100bn a year, but has still been unable to defeat 20,000-25,000 Taliban who receive no pay at all." - Patrick Cockburn
Why do you hate our troops?
Corruption favors the wealthy.
There is no justice in this country , not as long as this madman and his pals are walking free . Hang em high !
would be delightful, along with his pals from W's administration.
But, the Bush Crime Family and all of their cohorts in the international financial cabal (ya' know, elitists, banksters, corpora-fascists, etc.) have no interest in prosecuting and punishing the folks who have brought them so many opportunities to rape the world.
The 'shadow' government, the MIC, the Powers that Be, the people Eisenhower and JFK warned about, the ones who really pull the strings, are pleased as punch that Chi-knee's and Dubya's ruse worked so well. They're not about to pull the curtain back any further....that might ease the fear and end the charade.
"Egotism is the anesthetic that dulls the pain of Stupidity" - Frank Leahy
This administration isn't 'soft on terror'...but they sure are soft on prosecutions for the past administration's war crime....mustn't 'offend' the GOP, doncha know....
good grief.....(I really really hate saying that, btw)
Why do they put that lying old fool on the air. Give him a shotgun and let him go out and play with the other war mongers he likes.
Why don't he stay home and do something good for a change except writing books that lie about what a genius him and G.W. were?
Enough is enough.
Shut the hell up Tricky Dick.
Ohh man that pisses me off--you get the f***** over it -I’m not going to--torture is wrong.
Ever time this evil piece of crap shows his face I’m going to scream -You belong in Jail!!
The fact that this topic is even being debated is testament to how far down the hole these murderous, power hungry bastards have brought us……
This isn’t about politics. This isn’t about Dem vs. Rep. This is about the US, its Constitution, its treaty obligations, and a democratic society.
It always starts by saying this will be good for you. Then you’re own liberties and personal life are affected. To give this the go head-what would stop them from torturing you .
We don’t have to sacrifice our own morals do we ? We can find a better way for heaven sakes. It’s like we just crawled out of a cave or something-its fricken 2010!!
“If you f***** beat this prick long enough, he’ll tell you he started the goddamn Chicago fire, now that don’t necessarily make it f***ing so!”
- Eddie Cabot, Reservoir Dogs
LuLu
"...attorney general of the United States is legally obliged to prosecute someone who has openly admitted such a war crime or be in violation of the Geneva Conventions and the UN Convention on Torture. For Eric Holder to ignore this duty subjects him too to prosecution. If the US government fails to enforce the provision against torture, the UN or a foreign court can initiate an investigation and prosecution.
These are not my opinions and they are not hyperbole. They are legal facts. Either this country is governed by the rule of law or it isn't. Cheney's clear admission of his central role in authorizing waterboarding and the clear evidence that such waterboarding did indeed take place means that prosecution must proceed.
Cheney himself just set in motion a chain of events that the civilized world must see to its conclusion or cease to be the civilized world. For such a high official to escape the clear letter of these treaties and conventions, and to openly brag of it, renders such treaties and conventions meaningless."
http://andrewsullivan.theatlantic.com/the_dai...
I think I've seen flying pigs already...um....nope, nahhhhhhhhh
How many doughnuts you want to bet on THAT.....
Someone is going to grab him and charge him as a war criminal.
wow why do we still listen to this criminal named dick cheney? hasn't he wasted enough of our time? go back to your underground bunker, dick... we don't need your advice.
Dick Cheney is an embarrassment to all freedom loving people.
He should be sitting next to Madoff, Yoo, Bybee, Addington, Rumsfeld, Manson, and the rest of the crew in the federal pen.
he convicts himself of the war crimes, treason, disregard for the constitution and breaking his oath of office by not upholding the constituion. This man is a danger and has more than likely damaged this country to the point of no return. He is disgusting, dispicable, repuslive, and as anti-American as anyone I've ever known of. May justice be done and this fiend spend the few remaining years in jail on his way to burn in hell.
Woody McBreairty
Obama and Holder won't go after Dick head but Spain isn't dropping the matter .
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