BREAKING: Senate Scuttles Troop Withdrawal Bill
By Nicole Belle Tuesday Jul 17, 2007 12:39pmSorry, I'm having some connectivity issues, otherwise I'd have gotten this up sooner...
WaPo:
Senate Republicans scuttled a Democratic proposal ordering troop withdrawals from Iraq in a showdown Wednesday that capped an all-night debate on the war.
The 52-47 vote fell short of the 60 votes needed to cut off debate under Senate rules. It was a sound defeat for Democrats who say the U.S. military campaign, in its fifth year and requiring 158,000 troops, cannot tame the sectarian violence in Iraq.[..]
As members cast their votes, Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice hurried between private meetings with lawmakers in their Capitol Hill offices to make the administration's case for the war.
On a trip to Afghanistan, chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff Gen. Peter Pace said the U.S. "can do whatever it is we want to do to have a dialogue about how to fight this enemy. But the bottom line is that as long as our enemy is sworn to destroy our way of life, we are going to be in a war."
It's disappointing to say the least...however, now we have these Republicans (and honorary Republicans, like Joe Lieberman) on record. I'd suggest contacting them to ask them how they feel about not representing their constituency. Update: "Don’t miss Harold Meyerson’s take on the WINOs this morning. Priceless."
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Republicans fear saying the word 'Iraq'
REVOLUTION!!!
Now it gets interesting.
Let's see if the sheeple really will stay quiet. If not, it is not gonna be pretty.
"Gen. Peter Pace said the U.S. 'can do whatever it is we want to do to have a dialogue about how to fight this enemy. But the bottom line is that as long as our enemy is sworn to destroy our way of life, we are going to be in a war.'"
Then we are going to be in a war forever, you fucking idiot.
"But the bottom line is that as long as our enemy is sworn to destroy our way of life, we are going to be in a war." - Peter Pace
That's true; we are going to be at war as long as this administration is in power.
/since they're sworn to destroy our way of life and all
So what defines a "sound defeat" on the part of the WaPo writer? Dems didn't expect to get the votes. They just wanted the Repugs on record and they got it.
Did any of these buttholes stop and consider why *THEY* want to destroy our way of life?
Could it be that PERHAPS *WE* destroyed *THEIRS* FIRST?!?
No, I guess that can't be it.
Why is this, according to the republicans, a useless Democratic political stunt???
Troops to die while rubber stampers support a failed leader of their party.
drtoxic @ 7:
It is because we are pure good and they are pure evil. Get with the program.
Rusty Shackleford @ 4:
The whole point IS to have a forever war. We are turning into Nazi Germany. Paranoid, dehumanizing our enemies, we are already in the process of identifying a Aryan-like ideal American based on skin color, religion, political views, the country is being divided based on this ideal...it is starting to turn neighbor on neighbor, the camps are already under construction to house (domestic and foreign "enemy combatants").
Gosh. Look. Embrace the horror. It IS happening.
So we have the Iraq War. The War on Terror. The War on Americans. The War on Freedom. The War on Christmas. The War on Bloggers. The War on Liberals. The War on our Pocketbooks. The War on The Constitution. The War on Clean Air. The War on Gays. The War on Global Warming. The War on Jobs. . . . . . .
. . . . . go ahead _____________
sh@dow @ 9:
It is past time.
L.A. Confidential @ 13:
The War on War! To quote the idiot son..."no one likes war"...so...we must HAVE war to end war! LOLOL!
War is Peace.
baby jesus calls for a war on Republicans
Last time I checked 52 is a larger number than 47, and yet we have the Washington Post saying that it isn't.
"The 52-47 vote fell short of the 60 votes needed to cut off debate under Senate rules. It was a sound defeat for Democrats who say the U.S. military campaign, in its fifth year and requiring 158,000 troops, cannot tame the sectarian violence in Iraq.[..]"
The Washington post says that the 47 defeated 52 votes, soundly!. No wonder newspapers are dying. You have one of the major American Newspapers writing this kind of absurd rubbish.
....
Liberal AND Proud @ 12:
Right you are, Liberal and Proud. I'm reading (very slowly, and with imperfect comprehension) Hannah Arendt's The Origins of Totalitarianism and the parallels are disturbing.
baby jesus is a pacifist
The next election will either bring radical change - which will motivate a force driven response from the republicans or the election will end the democrats in congress.
I have become convinced that the only way to save the republic is to use states attorneys general to break the hold political parties have on elected state officials - senators and congressman. (Anon's idea) Roves corruption - I dont believe - has reached that level.
Clearly, Bush controls all branches of government ... elections of 2006 not withstanding. (He even controls the military - public and private)
baby jesus is whatever you use him for
It really doesn't matter if anyone contacts their republican representative. Those "representatives" WILL NOT do what the American public wants. They only want to do what the WPE wants them to do. It's politics, pure and simple. To hell with what most Americans want. The retarded right want to keep political power. Maybe they want to start more wars so more Americans can get killed for political reasons. Who knows?
No, the vote itself isn't really a disappointment, since it's pretty much what we expected.
The disappointment is the headline, which should say, "Republicans Iraq withdrawal bill to a stand-still."
There is always the argument put forward that if the US sets a withdrawal date then the enemy knows when you are leaving and will wait the US out. How exactly do you extract 160,000+ people without setting withdrawal dates? Is there some great stealth mothership that is going to come in at night and pick everybody and everything up in one fair swoop and bring them home so the US will not have alerted the enemy?
Er, I mean, "Republicans filibuster Iraq withdrawal bill to a stand-still."
http://www.senate.gov/legislative/LIS/roll_call_lists/roll_call_vote_cfm...
Repugs Yea
-=-
Collins (ME)
Hagel (NE)
Snowe (ME)
Independant Yea
-=-
Sanders (VT)
Democrats Not Voting
-=-
Johnson (SD) -=- Still very ill :-/ Get better!
Democrats Nay
-=-
Reid (NV) -- Wha? Am I missing something?
Independant Democrat Nae (ie. Liberman R-CT)
-=-
Liberman (CT)
sh@dow @ 16:
You guys are pretty close to dictatorship but only till 2008. If by some miscarriage of logic Giuliani is elected then you're truly down the swanny.
The republicans know things are not going to go very well for them next election, so they have decided to act like a bunch of little bitches for the next 15 months..
Susan @ 8:
Its a public display of their support for this f*cking disaster. They had so much fun over the last six years with their giant yellow rubber stamp.
Now that the sorry ass republicans voting against the filibuster are revealed would someone reveal the names of the corporations that rushed and paid for such a vote.
And, why is our sorry ass military commanders being w ass kissers saying we will always be at war with the terrorists? Probably because the corporations are making them fabulously rich also.
Seems to me that the British have a lot less visible military action fighting a war where the terrorists are mixed in the populations of the world. Their main method is detective work.
If we don't impeach w & dick before they leave office then the dismantling of this illegal war will make whoever does look real bad and I am real sure this is a major priority for w and dick so they will appear to be the ones doing the right thing.
Another thought, could our 'private contractors' be in on or encouraging the insurgency in Iraq? I mean why else does al Qaeda get so much credit when it is the shia and sunni militias doing most of the attacks?
seamus @ 18:
52 beats 47 unless you need 60. If you need 60 votes and you get 52, you've lost by 8. Please Google "cloture" for a better understanding.
Here's what got accomplished: Smith, Collins, and Hagel are now on the voting record as against Bush's war. Swing-state hosebags like Voinovich (mine) Coleman, Lugar, and Warner--even if they're not up for re-election---are now putting the GOP on the rotisserie for 2008. Coleman in particular just gave Al Franken a "Get Into the Senate Free" card. New and iffy moderate Dems like Casey made some bones.
Without the White House or a veto-proof majority, the troops aren't coming home this year or next, OK? This time at least, we called some of the hosers out and forced them on the record as being Bushie butt boyz and girlz.
Eamon @ 28:
...they have infiltrated and politicized every nook and cranny of the federal government - legal and otherwise. There is nothing these people have done that would speak to a willingness to surrender power. There have been references to a permanent majority ... I have a question ... if they cant 'obtain' this permanent majority ... will they manufacture the control it would have given them in its absence? I see them doing that.
Their not surrendering power is not only becoming more likely and plausible .. but is becomine more of a republican survival tactic and necessity.
baby jesus @ 22:
Speaking of that, you follow poker much? Well the World Series of Poker main event final table was yesterday(& this morning) & the eventual winner prayed out loud every hand that the right card would come -
"You have a purpose for me Lord...I will glorify your name Lord...In the name of Jesus Christ"
Now forgive me for being presumptous but magically rearranging a deck of cards is probably fairly low down on Jesus' to-do list
Well the upside is that if Americans view Republicans as thwarting the will of the majority of America they'll elect more Democrats.
Coleman in particular just gave Al Franken a “Get Into the Senate Free” card.
I agree, this war is VERY unpopular, no matter how many Al Queda leaders the pentagon claims to have captured. Since when do suicide bombers surrender to police anyway?
Gust @ 37:
That was the whole idea.
Peter Pace is the ultimate doormat for the right wing think tanks
whiteline @ 33:
I know what the cloture rules are. I am pointing out that the Washington Post said that the Democrats were soundly defeated. That is absurd. All the Republicans did was engage in Vote blocking. They would not allow the majority of 52 to actually pass the real bill. They defeated nothing. They allowed nothing to be voted on. That is not a sound defeat. It is vote blocking by deceit. What ever happened to the Republicans Mantra of " give us straight up or down votes". How come the MSM, including the Washington Post never make mention of that!.
...
What happened mommy?
Well, let us do the math honey:
Approx 80+% of us who used to be Americans say: Stop the occupation and get out.
OK.
And 52 of the 99 Senators said NO we are staying.
OK.
So is fifty-two 80+% of 99 mommy? Does that mean the 20% of the citizens get 52 Senators to work for them? I'm confused mommy, what happeded to the "will" of the people?
It was purchased by some bad people honey. Now let's pack our clothes and get ready to leave for, oh, I don't know, maybe Mexico, it is going to be pretty empty soon when Senator Kennedy gets done...
Liberal AND Proud @ 15:
IGNORANCE IS STRENGTH.
FREEDOM IS SLAVERY.
Rusty Shackleford @ 11:
OH MY FREAKING GOD - ARE YOU REALLY THAT STOOPID? DID YOU PRACTICE A LOT OR WERE YOU BORN THAT WAY?
Pull your head from out of your ass man. Jesus, save us from these right-wing, gospel of prosperity assholes.
Site Monitor: Dial back the flaming. It's called sarcasm.
Mommy @ 43:
If everysingle man woman and child in Mexico moved to the United States, they would still be outnumbered 3-1 by people born inside the United States.
get a grip noob.
If the 2008 election are legit, and thats a big if, the Republiscum party will suffer losses across the board that will be deemed historical. I truly hope these assholes stay the course into oblivion.
Ben @ 27:
Can anyone explain to me why Reid voted against his own bill?
Da Spyda @ 47:
The bushies wen't able to rig the 2006 elections, with less political power now i do not believe we will see a close enough election to throw as we saw in 2000 and 2004.
My solution is simple:
If you do business with Republicans, increase the profit margin 300% and donate that to Hillary's campaign. Those smug sons of bitches always talking about their money won't have much left by 2008 if you take the way to them.
I wish the dems had more seats. There were several in Florida in 2006 that were stolen. They had the proof, and the dem controlled committee that oversees it refused to hear it. WHY? 18000 voters had complete vote cards except for house and senate seats. All in one democratic county in Katherine Harris' district. Why would they not persue this, wouldn't those seats help us?
Ben @ 48:
I think it's a procedural thing to end the call for a vote. If no democrat voted no the filibuster would have kept going (i think).
Alphabetical by Senator Name
Alexander (R-TN), Nay
Allard (R-CO), Nay
Barrasso (R-WY), Nay
Bennett (R-UT), Nay
Bond (R-MO), Nay
Brownback (R-KS), Nay
Bunning (R-KY), Nay
Burr (R-NC), Nay
Chambliss (R-GA), Nay
Coburn (R-OK), Nay
Cochran (R-MS), Nay
Coleman (R-MN), Nay
Collins (R-ME), Yea
Corker (R-TN), Nay
Cornyn (R-TX), Nay
Craig (R-ID), Nay
Crapo (R-ID), Nay
DeMint (R-SC), Nay
Dole (R-NC), Nay
Domenici (R-NM), Nay
Ensign (R-NV), Nay
Enzi (R-WY), Nay
Graham (R-SC), Nay
Grassley (R-IA), Nay
Gregg (R-NH), Nay
Hagel (R-NE), Yea
Hatch (R-UT), Nay
Hutchison (R-TX), Nay
Inhofe (R-OK), Nay
Isakson (R-GA), Nay
Kyl (R-AZ), Nay
Lott (R-MS), Nay
Lugar (R-IN), Nay
Martinez (R-FL), Nay
McCain (R-AZ), Nay
McConnell (R-KY), Nay
Murkowski (R-AK), Nay
Roberts (R-KS), Nay
Sessions (R-AL), Nay
Shelby (R-AL), Nay
Smith (R-OR), Yea
Snowe (R-ME), Yea
Specter (R-PA), Nay
Stevens (R-AK), Nay
Sununu (R-NH), Nay
Thune (R-SD), Nay
Vitter (R-LA), Nay
Voinovich (R-OH), Nay
Warner (R-VA), Nay
Akaka (D-HI), Yea
Baucus (D-MT), Yea
Bayh (D-IN), Yea
Biden (D-DE), Yea
Bingaman (D-NM), Yea
Boxer (D-CA), Yea
Brown (D-OH), Yea
Byrd (D-WV), Yea
Cantwell (D-WA), Yea
Cardin (D-MD), Yea
Carper (D-DE), Yea
Casey (D-PA), Yea
Clinton (D-NY), Yea
Conrad (D-ND), Yea
Dodd (D-CT), Yea
Dorgan (D-ND), Yea
Durbin (D-IL), Yea
Feingold (D-WI), Yea
Feinstein (D-CA), Yea
Harkin (D-IA), Yea
Inouye (D-HI), Yea
Johnson (D-SD), Not Voting
Kennedy (D-MA), Yea
Kerry (D-MA), Yea
Klobuchar (D-MN), Yea
Kohl (D-WI), Yea
Landrieu (D-LA), Yea
Lautenberg (D-NJ), Yea
Leahy (D-VT), Yea
Levin (D-MI), Yea
Lincoln (D-AR), Yea
McCaskill (D-MO), Yea
Menendez (D-NJ), Yea
Mikulski (D-MD), Yea
Murray (D-WA), Yea
Nelson (D-FL), Yea
Nelson (D-NE), Yea
Obama (D-IL), Yea
Pryor (D-AR), Yea
Reed (D-RI), Yea
Reid (D-NV), Nay
Rockefeller (D-WV), Yea
Salazar (D-CO), Yea
Schumer (D-NY), Yea
Stabenow (D-MI), Yea
Tester (D-MT), Yea
Webb (D-VA), Yea
Whitehouse (D-RI), Yea
Wyden (D-OR), Yea
Sanders (I-VT), Yea
Lieberman (ID-CT), Nay
whiteline @ 39:
I have been thinking recently, that the democrats actually won more seats in '06 but due to 'election irregularities' (and crimes) didnt receive them. I believe the republicans underestimated turnout in the off year election and under-caged (etc). I wouldnt expect them to repeat that mistake. I wouldnt be surprised to see a return of congress to republican control in '09.
sh@dow @ 41:
I agree ... I'm just being specific as to the likelyhood of the 'appearance' of a republic continuing. There is a difference between theft and croneyisms and out and out imperial forms of govenment ... which is what we (I) now see.
Understand the difference - we are seeing the execution of monorchical theories of governance. This transcends graft, greed ... even simple crime.
sh@dow @ 55:
Keep crossing your fingers for another 9/11, in the meantime tell me why another one hasn't happened yet?
Seele^ @ 56:
... to what end? Increase the value of commercial property but reducing inventory?
EO51 is the act, it only needs a trigger. That will happen when needed.
I think the american people are stupid. I think they will see this vote for what it isnt. They will think 1) the democrats fillibustered again and 2) the democrats killed a bill to bring the boys home.
[Deleted. Off topic-Sitemonitor]
sh@dow @ 58:
I wear glasses, will crossed eyes help?
Rand @ 59:
I thought you were dead Ayn, but it turned out you just smelled that way.
Yeah, who needs all those generals in the field second guessing boosh, the deserter.
Voinovich (R-OH) spoke out against the bush strategy a few days ago and still voted nay. These assholes are going to wait until the last minute to change their minds. Every death, all the blood and all the debt will be their downfall. We must drag everyone we know to the polls in 08. Those of you wanting to vote for Ron Paul for this one issue are wasting your vote. We need a bigger majority and we need to toss the republicans out on their asses. With the Iraqis going on vacation for a month, there will be nothing more done. There is no difference between now and Sept except more deaths. Today the republicans voted for the murder of many more troops.
BTW Why is Betrayus regarded as the one that can save Iraq? He has been there from the start. What was he doing then?
sh@dow @ 60:
bibble babble fiddle faddle
For all you naysayers,
The DNC has a 50-state initiative that gets abso-fukking-lutely NO publicity whatso-goddamn-ever!
Please think about THAT before you resign yourselves to fascism or election rigging.
Janet @ 63:
This needs to be understood. They wont change their minds. (left is right, up is down) They will have been right all along. They will blame all failures on others and make you pay for them. (You and your childrens children). They are never wrong, the others are never right, the democrats fillibustered all night again and voted against (52 - 47) bringing the boys home ... have you read orwells 1984 ... and it has always been east asia.
Intelligence Puts Rationale For War on Shakier Ground
The White House faced fresh political peril yesterday in the form of a new intelligence assessment that raised sharp questions about the success of its counterterrorism strategy and judgment in making Iraq the focus of that effort.
(By Michael Abramowitz, The Washington Post)
I'd like to point out to the WaPo that this is not a "sound defeat" for the Deomocrats. They did their bloody jobs. This is a spit in the face of the American public by the Republicants. Cretinous traitors, the lot of them.
BaScOmBe @ 65:
Good point. This may be the reason the mid-term election had high turn out. I dont think the republicans expected the high turnout and undercaged the vote. (I think the democrats won by larger margins but due to caging and crimes didnt receive the seats) If I'm correct, then the republicans are now on notice and will adjust their caging/criminal activities. They may 'win' '08. The 'Randi Rhodes' tactic of simply flooding the polling places only works once.
anon @ 57:
If you are so sure of everything you posted above, why don't you know when your second 911 will happen? Please post the info to all, so we can begin our countdown.
sh@dow @ 71:
In school we learned about 16th ammendment. If you don't like paying taxes, move to Dubai, there is no income tax there, options are available people!
Seele^ @ 73:
Actually, the Patriot Act prohibits people from leaving the USA permanently.
Seele^ @ 72:
Read more carefully, I'm not claiming anything. There was a comment that asked why hasnt there been another 911 (false flag). I responded why would there have been, as it wasnt needed. I dont know if it ever will be needed. If it is, there is presidential directive 51 that can be triggered if needed.
When and if that will happen - ask your mom - I have no idea. It is clear, however, that having power means a great deal to these people - and presidential directive 51 is disturbing given their covetous relationship with power.
sh@dow @ 71:
Sounds vaguely Burchian. I dont accept your definitions of taxes or inflation.
I thought scuttling is what roaches do.
Sorry, but this is good why, again?
It looks like the Democrats called another showdown and blinked.
I am not trying to be a concern troll, but what was gained by this whole exercise, exactly?
76 sh@dow
The XVI amendment superseded the apportionment requirement, like the XII and XVII amedments superseded how vice presidents are elected in Article II. By definition, an amendment to the constitution cannot be considered unconstitutional.
64 anon Says:
bibble babble fiddle faddle
Bippidy boppity boo.
Sounds like an amateur version of Macbeth where the three weird sisters forget their lines.
Property taxes are state taxes to pay for education, not federal.
Payroll taxes affect the working poor to the middle class, but they pay for popular programs, and the cost is progressive.
sh@dow @ 81:
Greenspan is a criminal. Taxes are the cost of civil society. There is a difference between inflation and manipulation of monetary supply.
How exactly is a foregone conclusion "disappointing"?
.
Mommy @ 43:
You have got the figures wrong. 52 senators voted to end cloture, and would have voted to start leaving Iraq, if the Repulicans had not blocked a straight up or down vote like they used to claim they always wanted, when they were the majority. Can you say: Vote Blocking Republican War Mongers, Boys and Girls?.
...
Seele^ @ 52:
Yes, it was a tactical vote....by voting Nay, Reid can bring up the exact or similar proposal
whenever he(Dem's) want..by voting Yea, he could not do so.
seamus @ 89:
I swear americans (or many of them) will think democrats fillibustered and voted not to bring 'johnny' home. Sad, isnt it?
sh@dow @ 94:
Site monitor ... ^^^^^^^^^^^^^ .... Reid like dictatorial rudeness here.
This sounds like dogma ... which is why I said ... bibble babble fiddle faddle.
You might 'own' property were you sovereign. You are not. You see how that works? (I have my doubts) You are a member of a larger whole - like it or not. Actually, you could rebel and become the worlds first 'unitarian sovereign'.
I'll be watching.
sh@dow @ 95:
... ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ... I'm calling specter.
Excuse me? I dont believe you understand taxation. Do you actually believe that the taxation factor is larger than one? It would need to be for your assertion to be true. While I suspect anything larger than zero would be too much for some - hence my assertion that it was 'willingness' not 'ability'.
You can stop paying taxes once you are a 'unitary sovereign', not before. (See - boston tea party).
I suggest you reread your leaders pamplets. (Whoever that is)
Okay, I'm confused. The vote was on cloture to end debate, not the amendment, right? So, .... is the debate continuing? If not, why not? And why is it being touted as the defeat of the amendment, when it isn't? It is just a vote to continue debate. Isn't it? And if it is, why? Wasn't the idea to hold the Repugs in until they allow a vote on the amendment? So, keep holding. Don't make a limp attempt, show your stuff!
Horst @ 98:
As I understand it, the Appropriations Bill for continued funding is on "hold". The Reed/
Levin amendment was a part of the Appro. Bill and until Reid agrees to once again bring
the "funding bill" up again, it is in abeyance...which is the ONLY "hold card" Reid had.
sh@dow @ 76:
Sixteenth Amendment to the United States Constitution:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sixteenth_Amendment_to_the_United_States_Co...
Since I am only quoting the constitution, you are telling us: "The constitution is unconstitutional." You could propose changing the constitution, or keep name calling, whichever you prefer.
These 'Taxes are unconstitutional" people really gotta start reading the constitution for a change, their ignorance is such a bore!
Site monitor, do something about the personal attacks by 101 sh@dow Says: please.
Same O #32
Private contractors? Maybe. Recently some Brit Special Ops dressed in Arab garb were arrested, apparently found with beau coup explosives. The Brits literally blasted their Ops out of jail, destroying the building. Sounds very much like 'staged insurgents' they didn't want talking to investigators, interrogators, a la Bush model. Don't think BFEE hasn't used that and even more despicable tactics. Why won't they release everything on Pat Tillman? Maybe it wasn't accidental fratricide, but silencing an outspoken hero and Bush critic.
Doggie #100-
Thanks, that's pretty much what I understood. The Amendment to Military Appropriations never received a vote. Cloture failed, not the Amend or the Legis. Rather disingenuous of the MSM, ain't it?
The funding can be held until the Repugs are willing to allow the amend, then, right? Alternatively, couldn't Reid continue session 24/7 through August if the Repugs are so set on filibuster?
87 sh@dow Says:
Actually the 16th Amendment for one (WAS) not ratified... Direct unapportioned taxes are Unconstitutional.
___________________________________________________________________________
Actually the XVI amendment was ratified February 25, 1913. 42 states voted yes, 6 voted no, thereby fulfilling the 3/4 vote required by the Constitution for amendments to pass.
This is like the idiots who claim Texas is still a Republic and not part of the US, because of spurious claims to the contrary.
However, since this thread is actually about a vote of cloture so they can proceed to a vote on whether to pull out our troops at least somewhat from the Iraqi war, what do you think of burdening future generation with taxes or costs to pay for this misguided imbroglio?
These filibusters will become commonplace. The republicans have announced they will try and block every bill the democrats try and pass. Expect very little to change until 2008.
Direct Unapportioned Taxes are Unconstitutional!
Go on I'm nuts and your smart!
The authorities know a collapse is impending! The wealth has been redistributed thanks to taxation and inflation!!
http://truthorlies.org/govtarticle0131.html
The 16th remains unratified and WIKI is wrong idiot!
ysabddaden @ 108:
There is alot of this ignorance going around where people claim "Tax is unconstitutional." These people need to be put in their place immediately because their ignorance is all too similar to rightwing mythology like saddam had wmd, and other BS considered true by so many of our fellow americans. We have to stand up to these lies whenever and wherever they appear.
If you don't like Income Taxes, call on us to overturn the 16th amendment, amendments have been overturned before. Do not claim they are unconstitutional, we do not tolerate ignorance as much as we used to.
who voted against this bill??
Seele^ @ 109:
The rules need to be changed. Its the republicans that need to hold the floor to accomplish the fillibuster rather than the democrats to end it. This was done as a gentlemans courtesy which of course the republicans are using rudely.
sh@dow @ 110:
http://www.loc.gov/rr/business/hottopic/irs_history.html
Library of congress disagrees.
I have a bachelor in Political Science, an Associate in Business, and another Associate in Paralegal Studies. I also belonged to two Honor Societies, and graduated in the Deans list for my first and last degrees, and Cum Laude in my Political Science degree. That's on top of my Honorable Discharge from the Air Force with a Top Secret Clearance, and subsequently fourteen years workinig in banking. And you?
The argument against the the amendment was that it was creating a new power; the Supreme Court's decision held that it was not creatiing a new power, but one within the Constitution, so you're trying to prove a point with a factoid contrary to your position.
Are you done trying to hijack this thread yet? Afterall, it's not about debate over the funding of the war, but the presence of the troops still there.
Professor Farnsworth @ 110:
This vote was for cloature, to end the republican fillibuster which requires 60 votes. The bill hasnt had a vote.
[deleted--off topic, please limit your comments on the topic threads to the actual topic. There is an open thread for general discussion]
anon @ 116:
Methinks this is a Republican revenge for Democrats wanting a 2/3 vote to approve Supreme Court appointees.
ysabddaden @ 115:
This bandwagon of "Income Taxes are Illegal" has got to stop. Even Cindy Sheehan has come out with this claim that the 16th Amendment does not exist. WTF?! I am done with feeding the trolls. Just look at the 16th Amendment and your questions will be answered.
By the way, whats up with the republicans blocking the vote? Why do they insist on shielding bush from issuing the veto?
BRING 'EM ON...the next boat home.
Gust @ 37:
I think that's the whole point although, right now, sounds like the msm are doing their usual job of trying to spin facts in Republicans' favor, but perhaps those who are really paying attention will see through this.
Seele^ @ 107:
I want to see them filibuster the Webb Amendment. I want to see that one play out in the media. I think it will get some good airplay: "Why do Republicans hate the troops?" I can't wait.
121 Seele^ Says:
This seems to be a revisit to the Antebellum Age's Null & Void arguments from their misreading of the X amendment. That a state that didn't vote to approve a federal law or amendment didn't have to obey it, although it may have passed despite their vote. That's totally ignoring the Federal Supremacy clause of the Constitution.
So back to the topic of the thread, the party of "tax cutters" has blocked a vote that may serve to save tax dollars. Who knows how much blood spilt or dollars lost will occurr during the August recess of the Iraqi government still in plan?
Maybe they'll come here to get some Republican hookers.
Occur, I think I have my fan on too high.
Seele^ @ 121:
This really is a politburo. The republican party/congress is an arm of the Bush government. He has fillibuster, veto, signing statements, packed supreme court and finally presidential directive 51.
That is his playbook.
Bush intended to 'own' and then stay in Iraq - god knows what else. Remember the massive bases they have/are building.
sh@dow @ 66:
Thank you for your opinion. You're a fruitcake. The parties clearly stand for different things. They vote differently. The pass different legislation when in power. They have different constituents with widely divergent goals and world views.
I realize that you told us all some time ago that you had lost your job and I know that sucks. But please get off this whole giant conspiracy theory. Or buy some guns and get yourself a hidden bunker.
Seele^ @ 121:
The MSM will try every phrase in their arsenal to cover up the republican filibuster. Have there been any polls taken since the vote?
Liberal AND Proud @ 3:
Is calling yourself liberal while using a derogatory term like 'sheeple' among your contradictions?
Something to be proud of, derisive bigotry pretending to be associated with the way forward.
sh@dow @ 120:
Thank you. Please just keep repeating this.
I think the Repiglicans have a point. It was a stunt. I tuned-in to the all-nighter a few times last night... stood it for as long as I could each time... and it's clear that very many Democrats in the Senate do NOT want to get out of Iraq. They'd probably prefer people stopped dying but not enough to stop our part in it. These professional gamesmen seem actually to like American imperialism... just not the label. * has actually done them a favor by having the gall to drop the facade and attack innocent people, murder them in the streets, for power and profit. The stupidest, ugliest, most evil actions the United States has ever engaged in are actually fine with these people so long as they can maintain some sort of illusion of deploring them. I know they were sleepy, but listening to them made me so ashamed, and it scares me to listen to the doltish utterances of people who are so powerful. I am appalled that we haven't risen up and physically removed them from our capitol....
Paul in LA @ 134:
I agree, it is time to stop using the derogatory phrase 'sheeple' It's a meaningless insult.
99 @ 136:
I disagree with the claim that both parties are the same. If they were the same Bill Clinton would have invaded Iraq years before bush did. There are many other reasons to say the two parties are different. You are reaching to claim everything is a stunt.
i've turned the corner... i want things to get worse! i hope this country goes down - and soon.. it would be much better in the long run. break up the states! dissolve, splinter, ... lets get it done!
Seele^ @ 137:
We might want to retire the term sheeple. From what I hear some of the rural Republican politicos are into doing farm animals.
I did not claim "everything is a stunt" and I did not claim "both parties are the same". I said it's clear to me a lot of Democratic senators want to stay in Iraq, want the imperialistic hold on Iraq, but don't want us to call it that.
New derogatory term: Sheepators.
Sheepresenatives.
...to be inclusive in my derogation....
131 Bob Roberts Says:
Mmmmmmm. OK well once again Bob knows the truth. Bob don't you at least find it odd that 535 lawyers and business persons (oh and the judges too) control 300,000,000 people? You don't realize that these people see each other socially? You don't realize that birds of a feather flock together?
"Thank you for your opinion. You’re a fruitcake. The parties clearly stand for different things. They vote differently. The pass different legislation when in power. They have different constituents with widely divergent goals and world views."
Thanks for your opinion and you are an idiot! The parties both want the oil and share power. The vote for nothing since it is all a fraud. They pass thousands of laws that create a military state when real people only need a few laws PERIOD. All of their laws are crap made to insulate them from humans. All of there bosses are business owners and share the same corporate greed and love of power and money!
"I realize that you told us all some time ago that you had lost your job and I know that sucks. But please get off this whole giant conspiracy theory. Or buy some guns and get yourself a hidden bunker."
Here we go agent provocateur making it personal. Pointing out that my employment status is related to "giant conspiracy theories". Here you stepped as low as a person can go. There is good news that I have secured new employment and when I mentioned that I pointed out that illegal aliens in construction are more than a problem. So there is an issue of context to frame here but you will move to the ad hominem posting method. Clearly both sides are playing the middle and you know that is true.
My gun ownership right is just that and since I am content at this moment in that area I will decline in purchasing any new weapons at this point, thanks. As for a fallout shelter I have one and it is well hardened and quite large. I'm lucky that it didn't add much expense to my house since I put in my own foundations. I was able to add what amounts to a sub basement and back then the materials were cheap and available. I can estimate that it added $5K to the job but that is only the case since I built my own house.
The only wood framing on the house is in the roof but I was able to incorporate a slate roof for no added expense that I salvaged from a house I tore down. Excluding the fallout shelter i have 3k sq feet of insulated block house with a stone roof.
I think the whole thing is a charade. If the Dems band together, on the next time funding is required for Iraq, Bush gets a bill with a pullout, or he doesn't get a bill at all.
Right on, NoBuddy.
Cantwell is the only one who said we were there for the oil in a subtle way. Said at first she didn't believe it. If Iraq GAVE US 50% of their oil, we would be out tomorrow.
Introduce it again - with minor changes - and again - and again. Make that the sole order of business until they are completely sick of it.
sh@dow @ 145:
There is good news that I have secured new employment and when I mentioned that I pointed out that illegal aliens in construction are more than a problem.
I didn't notice the post in which you mentioned that. Congratulations on getting a new job.
As One Nation:
We were founded upon a set of rules and laws. Guidance, from which we were to correct our nations problems. It now appears that our President, and his Vice-President, should both be impeached for simply doing as they wish and inviting anyone to confront them. As well, many members of our congress have displayed their individual and collective lack of concern for those that they represent. It now appears that we the people must begin to act by calling for a revolution of sorts. We must begin to protest en masse both in Washington D.C. and in front of every media outlet possible!! We must be there in the millions at every chance!! Then and only then, will these clowns return to the governmental form for which they were elected to office to for!! The power of the United States Constitution belongs to the people of this great nation!!! They, from the President on down, need to be reminded of that!! Lets move it people. Time is moving on!!! RvfoSucess
I believe the Republicans voted against cloture because they knew that the Democrats had the votes to pass the amendment. If the bill passed with the amendment attached, Bush would have vetoed it and their (the Republicans') intent was to save Bush from any bad publicity he would get from his veto.
I don't think that there is any way out of this war unless a Democrat wins in 2008. The Democrats won't cut funding because this will allow the Republicans to convince low-information voters that the Democrats are abandoning the troops.
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