Wars are always the best form of destraction from the true problems of a society.

We're being poisoned to death every day by our own government, and either refuse to admit it or don't want to know it, but most Americans will believe the very same government when it tells them that some foreigners are trying to kill them.

Every war since and including the American Civil War has been about one thing: the takeover of the entire world by a small yet very rich and very powerful elite.

To believe otherwise is folly.

When will Mike be back? Anyone heard from him? If someone talks to him, please tell him I miss him and envy the hell out of his seeing and playing with Joe Cocker. I'm a major Cocker fan.

plutocracy-83,487, 198
the people-0 (excludes french and russian revolutions)

KYJurisDoctor at 2, I disagree, and as an independent, I am often critical of the Democrats. The Democrats, as Mike Gravel says, have to keep doing this time after time. It points out to the American public that the Republican legislators are still The Plantation when it comes down to crunch time. Republican opposition to this amendment and to others like it which will come along is based purely on politics. They want to come up with a solution, not give the Democrats credit for doing so. And in the meantime, how many US soldiers, how many Iraqi civilians will die? This fight will end up hurting the Republicans, not the Democrats.

I just do not understand why they did not force the Republicans to actually fillibuster the bill? They instead made it into an ignorant stunt, and were called on it. Can we please fire Harry Reid, his skills are abysmal. I want to see Mitch having to stand there for 16 hours reading from Harry freaking Potter!

I want them to force the Republicans to actually sustain the fillibuster as opposed to the way it is being done. I think the Democrats should have had to do the same for any judicial nominees as well. the rule is there and it should be followed with all the pain required to sustain it.

Stop the funding of the war or Impeach Bush/Cheney. These are the only two viable options the Democratic leadership has to restore any faith in our government.
Bush has put in place all the necessary measures for dictatorship in the form of "executive orders" that are triggered whenever Bush declares a national emergency. Recent statements by Homeland Security Chief Michael Chertoff, former Republican senator Rick Santorum and others suggest that Americans might expect a series of staged, or false flag, "terrorist" events in the near future.
Rick Santorum said on the Hugh Hewitt radio show that "between now and November, a lot of things are going to happen, and I believe that by this time next year, the American public's (sic) going to have a very different view of this war."

Ron Paul said the U.S. is in "Great Danger" of a staged Gulf Of Tonkin style provocation. Cheney is going after Iran and hoodwinking Bush in the process. Are we really to believe our Congress or courts are going to save us? Power of the People is stronger than any form of government, but only if we collectively use it.

I can't believe the New York Times headline says "Democrats Fail..."

What's going to happen as we start running out of cheap gas to guzzle?

Here on the West Coast I stayed up till after midnight listening to the various speakers.

At one point I actually felt it would be meaningful till they took a roll call and the only people present were Hitler, Satan, Freddy Krugger, the Grinch, three piles of dog shit, and a couple of Senate Pages getting fondled in the corner...

I keep wondering if this is some sort of fucking nightmare and I pinch myself and it hurts but not as much as my heart does for the future of our country.

Hey, what the hell happend to the HOLY CRAP section? That was one of the best things on C&L.

With all due respect to Talk Left [C&L Linked to the issue]: There is an important issue with appropriations, which we learned in re Iran-Contra. Funds which "do not exist" can still be used.

Congress has to draw a line in the sand [banning POTUS from doing something]; then Congress has to detect where the replacement funds are coming from in violation of the law. It's one thing to suggest that the President "cannot spend money," quite another to pretend that "funds do not exist" when that is not the issue: There is a program in place. As with Iran-contra where that money comes from is a different question than is there a program.

The issue is not isolated to DoD, but across the board. Defunding is not a threat only applicable to Iraq, but to anything the President does not fully cooperate with fact finding.

The error of the article is the implicit assumption that "impeachment is bad unless the Senate convicts." no, impeachment is successful the moment the Congress chooses to start an impeachment investigation. Whether there is no is not an impeachment in the House; or a Conviction in the Senate is secondary. once impeachment starts, Bush is denied any chance of a pardon.

It is also false to say that "removal of Bush and Cheney will never happen." There is a lawful option to remove them from office -- while they sit in jail -- if they are prosecuted while President. This is different than impeachment. Prosecution and conviction of a sitting President and VP is possible outside congress outside impeachment; if convicted, they would have to go to prison. Pelosi would be the New President. Whether this will happen is secondary to the point: Impeachment is only one option to remove the President; prosecutions would put Bush and Cheney in jail, but they would still have the title of President, just not the power.

The following shows evidence that there is some limited understanding of how budget reprogramming works within DoD and the OMB world:

Kagro X: it would be no mean feat to find and shuffle $10 billion monthly.

BIg Tent Democrat: "It would be no mean feat? It would be impossible. There is no loose 10 billion dollars lying around."

Nope, it is possible. $10B is chump change. Each of the Pentagon Accounts have hidden management reserve levels. There are multiple levels where the funding is hidden: First in the Service level; then buried in the contracts; the third level is a horizontal hiding place for black programs.

Again, it is naive to suggest there is "no loose 10B lying around." If the President wants $10B right now, there are program managers who will offer up funds and give him what he wants. Those impacts and what gets canceled, delayed, or descoped is a separate issue. It's false to say that it is "impossible".

Summary: Defunding is an option as long as the approprations committee puts the budget lines to zero during markups before they reach the floor for the bill vote. Once the Final bill has Zero in any budget line, the burden shifts to the GOP to get an Amendment passed to add the money back.

Kagro X has it right: Defunding is possible; and the President and VP could be removed from office outside impeachment if they were prosecuted. Big Tent Democrat may have a personal beef with Kagro X, but when he attacks reasonable positions. it makes it look as though his attacks are not about solving problems but going after Kagro X. Not impressed with that, especially when there is displayed ignorance on DoD reprogramming and defunding.

Caveat

The above does not consider recoloring funding between programs; nor the Omnibus; nor the supplementals. Each supplemental gives the President the chance to ask for money, and get a Congressional approval, even thogh Congress is approving funds for the very thing it says needs to be discoped; nor does it cover the reprogramming possible due to not meeting various obligation and expenditure goals; nor the deficit reduction targets which may or may not be enforced or exist.