Mitt & Rudy - Draft Dodging For Dummies
Via Salon:
Nothing unites the Republican candidates for president or excites the conservative base more than their bellicose barking about war and confrontation. The GOP presidential debates often sound like a tough-man competition, with Rudolph Giuliani denouncing the "cut-and-run" Democrats, Mitt Romney demanding a double-size Guantánamo detention camp, and the rest of the pack struggling to keep pace with the snarling alpha dogs.
Consider Giuliani, the former New York mayor who has remained among the most vocal supporters of the invasion and occupation of Iraq. He never hesitates to suggest that politicians with differing opinions simply lack guts. When he spoke at the 2004 Republican convention, he gleefully insinuated that Democratic nominee John Kerry lacked the fortitude to combat terrorism. Now he denigrates the supposedly spineless Democrats running for president in 2008.
But he has always confined his enthusiasm for war to podium speeches and position papers. Born in 1944, young Rudy was highly eligible for military service when he reached his 20s during the Vietnam War. He did not volunteer for combat -- as Kerry did -- and instead found a highly creative way to dodge the draft.
If Giuliani has a draft problem, Romney's may be even worse. The former Massachusetts governor, whose supporters object strenuously to any discussion of his religious beliefs, got his military service deferred thanks to the Mormon church. Read more...
8)
( I need a life lol)
Sounds like Rudy Mussolini could use a rabies shot so that his rabid slobber won't short out the mike.
This group of GOP candidates are real winners. Draft dodgers and/or marriage commitment dodgers.
Whether the issue is abortion, stem cell research, rights for gay Americans or even his state of residence, Mitt Romney's rhetorical contortions have become legendary. Romney's flip-flopping even extends to his Vietnam draft deferment.
For the details, see:
"Man on a Mission: Romney's Vietnam Deferment."
This whole field of repuke candidates is about the worst group of individuals to ever run for president. Makes me almost feel sorry for them.
Giuliani & Vucovich '08!
(Essential employees my ass...)
I despise them both but Romney seems crazier to me. Less intelligent as well.
This is a dream team of Republican candidates.
Can you imagine Clinton wading into them?
Any of the top three, or seven, will devolve their rhetoric.
As long as we keep a foot on the the throat of the MSM.
Apparently Fred Thompson was a draft-dodger too.
Outside of "Dead In The Water" McCain, has *ANY* of the GOP candidates served?
Romney has 5 sons...not a one in the military...He wants to send our kids...but not his..
Clinton never served and he was a very good president. Though among his many positive skills was his ability at diplomacy.
He wasn't a war monger. That's what is so disgusting about these guys. They only have guts to send people they don't know into meaningless battle. Perhaps personal sacrifice eludes them. Nah, they're just cynical hypocrites.
The following speech is from shakespeare's king henry the 5th if you ask any of the soldiers in Iraq I bet this means more than any of the crap out of your capital
KING. What's he that wishes so?
My cousin Westmoreland? No, my fair cousin;
If we are mark'd to die, we are enow
To do our country loss; and if to live,
The fewer men, the greater share of honour.
God's will! I pray thee, wish not one man more.
By Jove, I am not covetous for gold,
Nor care I who doth feed upon my cost;
It yearns me not if men my garments wear;
Such outward things dwell not in my desires.
But if it be a sin to covet honour,
I am the most offending soul alive.
No, faith, my coz, wish not a man from England.
God's peace! I would not lose so great an honour
As one man more methinks would share from me
For the best hope I have. O, do not wish one more!
Rather proclaim it, Westmoreland, through my host,
That he which hath no stomach to this fight,
Let him depart; his passport shall be made,
And crowns for convoy put into his purse;
We would not die in that man's company
That fears his fellowship to die with us.
This day is call'd the feast of Crispian.
He that outlives this day, and comes safe home,
Will stand a tip-toe when this day is nam'd,
And rouse him at the name of Crispian.
He that shall live this day, and see old age,
Will yearly on the vigil feast his neighbours,
And say 'To-morrow is Saint Crispian.'
Then will he strip his sleeve and show his scars,
And say 'These wounds I had on Crispian's day.'
Old men forget; yet all shall be forgot,
But he'll remember, with advantages,
What feats he did that day. Then shall our names,
Familiar in his mouth as household words-
Harry the King, Bedford and Exeter,
Warwick and Talbot, Salisbury and Gloucester-
Be in their flowing cups freshly rememb'red.
This story shall the good man teach his son;
And Crispin Crispian shall ne'er go by,
From this day to the ending of the world,
But we in it shall be remembered-
We few, we happy few, we band of brothers;
For he to-day that sheds his blood with me
Shall be my brother; be he ne'er so vile,
This day shall gentle his condition;
And gentlemen in England now-a-bed
Shall think themselves accurs'd they were not here,
And hold their manhoods cheap whiles any speaks
That fought with us upon Saint Crispin's day.
if mormons are anti war, why does romney support this war. maybe the anti war stance is reserved for the draft board.
Yup, paying taxes and fighting wars....just for the little people. Republicans are too valuable to do either.
And do you think any of their many kids will serve? They are all a bunch of cowards. :mad:
All of the righties got out of Vietnam. Cheney, Mitt, Rudy, O'Reilly, Rush. Quite the do as I say not as I do cottage industry. Boortz did the "poor eyesight" gimmick while seeing good enough to be a pilot about 40 years later.
all republicans, the gop, are criminals. they spend all their time finding ways to smear everyone else so they can change the subject.
rommey baby with 5 sons and not one in the service. what a fucking hypocrite!!!!
Romney stated that "[He] longed in many respects to have been in Vietnam..." Another chickenhawk, the superpatriot Bill O'Reilly, said much the same thing when he was younger. What both of these alleged patriots ignore is that nothing prevented them from marching down to the nearest army or marine recruiting station and putting their names on the dotted lines so they could experience what the jungles of Vietnam were actually like. The phrase "talk is cheap" defines the characters of these hypocritical advocates of war.
I don't know what aggravates me more; the utter hypocracy and cowardly attitude of these candidates, or the fact that they are too stupid to see it, or worse, think that we are too stupid. Yes, I know, the die-hard 20-odd percenters are, at this point, so far gone that there may be no bringing them back into the land of reality. But the rest of the electorate, I can only hope, are becoming more aware and can see the war-mongerers for exactly what they are. They are absolutely willing to send your sons and daughters to die or be maimed for a failed policy, and absolutely unwilling to send their children to do the same.
I remember in a television movie about LBJ, Romney (I'm assuming his dad) was part of the LBJ administration. In the movie, he made a comment about how none (LBJ admin) of them had seen any combat in WWII. They all were the one's planning the missions that the 18 year old's were flying over Germany. I had a lot of respect for that statement. I have no respect for his cowardice son.
Incidentally, even if the U.S. has to re-institute the draft to get out of the Iraq mess, the sons of Republicans will never get drafted. Only this time they won't use deferments. Bush will just invoke Executive Privilege to excuse all College Republicans from the draft.
There ought to be a law that you do not get a vote on a military matter if you did not serve. period.
These chickenshithawks have no right to have a say in how others serve their country. I can't believe they don't see how hypocritical they are. Such audacity.
tr @ 13:
I work with a few mormons. They have a big problem with his thirst for blood, and they think he's completely abandoned mormonism. Who cares, next week he'll flippity flop to Catholic or something anyways.
For Mike the Canuck....
Sorry Mike, it means jackshit.
What is it with republicans and war?
The republicans have wanted war in practically every circumstance since Lincoln save for WWII. In WWII, they wanted to support the Nazis!
Its friggen obvious in my mind just what these dumbarse repubs are all about.
Lies and Death
The irony of it all is that the true warriors (with a few notable exceptions, a la McCain, but he's anti-torture) are anti-war...McGovern in '72, Kerry in '04, George Romney in '68...Jack Murtha, etc...To me, that speaks volumes.
Someone mentioned Henry V.
But if the cause be not good, the King himself hath a heavy reckoning to make when all those legs and arms and heads, chopp'd off in a battle, shall join together at the latter day and cry all 'We died at such a place'- some swearing, some crying for a surgeon, some upon their wives left poor behind them, some upon the debts they owe, some upon their children rawly left. I am afeard there are few die well that die in a battle; for how can they charitably dispose of anything when blood is their argument? Now, if these men do not die well, it will be a black matter for the King that led them to it; who to disobey were against all proportion of subjection.
Problem is, in a democratic society, there's no king to take the blame. No "I was just following orders." And you can't wash away that spot of responsibility.
Speaking of Rudy. I was just perusing this article on yahoo news about the makers of Oxycontin getting sued because they covered up the extremely addictive nature of the drug. And lo and behold! Guess who makes a guest appearance in that story:
Former New York City Mayor Rudolph Giuliani played a central role in negotiating on behalf of Purdue with federal prosecutors, but Jones said "I completely reject" suggestions that political influence resulted in a lesser punishment for Purdue.
Yep. Rudy's not only a self styled "Terrorism Expert" , he's now Big Pharma's best fucking friend and main mouthpiece.
[...] Clark Link to Article mitt romney Mitt & Rudy - Draft Dodging For Dummies » Posted at Crooks and [...]
Mitt & Rudy draft dodgers, chicken hawks surprise, suprise but not really, since one can hear the most warmongering from those who dodged vietnam or any war, for that matter, they love too play war leader, but never warrior...., cowards all with big talk, but little too show for all their big talk...., no doubt they like ole George & Cheney another pair of chicken hawks, love too talk war, let another die & be maimed/crippled, see war as some game, sadly this is Americas elite leadership, we truly have fallen into a pathetic state, like the ancient roman empire, it too became decandant, and allowed leaders with superiority complexs rule them, and as with all great empires they too have fallen by the way side..., truly it ought too be a legal requirement of every presidential candidate too at least served in the active military not the national guard, but the active military, and then eliminate all these warmongering chicken hawks...
This article says only McCain and Hunter served but that is incorrect. Ron Paul was drafted and served as a flight surgeon in the air force during VietNam.
We can trot out this line all we want. It won't work again.
Until Democrats get serious and nominate someone for president like Wes Clark or Jim Webb, we will continue to get whooped any time the subject turns to national security- no matter how badly the GOP screws up.
Democrats have been totally ineffectual in the American national security debate since the wake of Vietnam. For forty years, we have lost the national security debate. And trotting out the chicken hawk jokes isn't gonna change it.
Until Democrats get serious and nominate a serious national security candidate- no, not one like Kerry who came home and turned into a hippie- then the GOP will whoop us up and down on the subject. The clever little chicken hawk cartoons just aren't cuting it.
Get serious, Democrats. Get some spine.
They're ALL Chickenhawks...
http://www.chickenhawkcards.com
I think you've all got it wrong... I'm SURE Rudy and Mitt WOULD HAVE SERVED, being the true patriots they are... but they just weren't "selected". Let's just imagine that HAD they served, they both would have been HIGHLY decorated... and had LOTS of enemy KILLS... and John Kerry would NEVER had had the "guts" that Rudy surely has.
Perhaps the Judge who wrote the letter for Rudy, and Mitt's father should be jailed.
There should be a draft... a draft of EVERYONE... 100%... EVERYONE. And if you're got some medical condition, you can STILL serve, whether in an administrative position over in Bush's Iraq, or if it's really bad, in some administrative position HERE.
I don't give a shit if you're TERRY SCHIVO... EVERYONE should serve.
Roy Zimmerman has a song "Chickenhawks".
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SsktNLgpCs8
Listen for his answer to "why did the chicken cross the road?"
Not only did many Rethuglicans--like Prescott Bush--support the Nazis before WWII, they continued to do so after.
http://www.rense.com/general17/bushhitler.htm
If Giuliana's mental capacity and Romney's recent "Badge Bunny" incident is any indication as to where these clowns plan on leading the country, should either win, then I'd say, "It was nice while it lasted".
So eager to serve that they forgot the could have volunteered!
I must not forget that a prerequisite for being a Republican leader is a firm belief that God was saving him for the presidency. To risk that devine destiny by exposing himself to the war's desolation would be an affront before God.
May God save us from their delusions.
Had Romney or Giuliani actually gone, we may have won the Vietnam War. Rudy, with Bernie Kerik at his side, fighting the Vietnamese. Mitt with his platoon of fake-badge carrying supercops could have strongarmed the American Press away from reporting the bad news and the American people would have had the willpower to fight until today.
Kiss any toad and it turns into a Republican.
Here is a shopping list of pro-fascists in the U.S. before WWII. There are some big names.
http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/Fascism/Support_Hitler_US.html
The American Liberty League even planned a coup d'état, but General Butler who was to be their man refused.
"Nearly unknown today, Smedley D. Butler is a real hero in many respects. He turned down money and power in the service of his country, and also continued to speak candidly about his career in the Marines. He went on the radio to continue the attack against the Liberty League and groups like it, and staged a speaking tour in 1935. He wrote a book, War Is a Racket, in which he made the following statement: "I spent 33 years [in the Marines] and during that period I spent most of my time being a high-class muscle man for Big Business, for Wall Street and the bankers. In short, I was a racketeer for capitalism...I helped purify Nicaragua for the international banking house of Brown Brothers in 1909-1912. I brought light to the Dominican Republic for American sugar interests in 1916. In China in 1927 I helped see to it that Standard Oil went its way unmolested." "
Then there is the American Legion,
"What? You might ask how the venerable American Legion fits into a discussion of Fascism and Hitler. Well, in 1922, before the Fascists had even taken control in Italy, Colonel Alvin Owsley, then the Commander of the Legion, declared that the Legion was poised to fight "Soviets, anarchists, I.W.W.'s, revolutionary socialists and every other 'red'." Owsley invited Mussolini to speak at almost every yearly convention of the Legion. "Do not forget," he said, "that the Fascisti are to Italy what the American Legion is to the United States.""
This seems to be Rudy's one consistent stance over the years. Avoided action with the military. Avoided action with the 911 commission.
[deleted - off topic.]
Will the Republican yobos be pleased to learn that Rudy was a McGovern supporter?
elodie @ 32:
Well, it looks like this election season it won't matter. With the two frontrunners looking like draft dodging cowards themselves, the democratic field at least doesn't have that hanging over them. What the real test will be is to see if the press will focus on Romney/Guiliani's draft dodging tactics like it focused on Clinton's so much. I somehow doubt it.
I wonder why Giuliani didn't seek a deferment as being 'morally unfit' due to his mafia connections? It would have been much more straightforward, rather than claiming to be an 'essential civilian'.
He wasn't an 'essential civilian' then, and he certainly isn't now.
Mitt Romney seriously reminds me of Herman Munster.
ya gotta love that 'Ask Mitt Anything' banner.
"so, Mitt, do those temple undergarments ride up in the ass much?"
cyn @ 5:
How can you feel sorry for them?
They are destroying our counry.
andrew @ 26:
"I hate war as only a soldier that has lived it can, as one who has seen its futility, its brutality, its stupidity."
Gen. Dwight D. Eisenhower
"Why should we hear about body bags, and deaths---I mean, its not relevant. So why should I waste my beautiful mind on something like that?"
Barbara Bush, March 18, 2003
Draftdodging Rethugs. are certainly bedwetting, unpatriotic, rats.
SparksNV @ 10:
Oh, his kids can't go... they have much more important "christian" work, doing missionary "work", in places like the father went (France)... lots of danger there... maybe the kids are doing missionary work in Tahiti, or maybe the Maldive Islands, or maybe the Seychelles, or maybe the Hamptons. Their missionary time is MUCH more important than defending the U.S. from whatever threat Bush and Cheney think is going on this week.
I remember well the extreme outrage over Clinton-The-Draft-Dodger' nerve to even run for president. "He's a freakin' draft dodger! How can the military follow his orders?"
Now, from those same foam flecked lips have very little to say about Ghuliliani or Mutt having DONE THE EXACT SAME THING that Bill did!
That phony outrage (as has been proved) against Clinton was because he was a Democrat and wasn't owned by the Repug's sponsors.
Ghulianni was opposed to Vietnam, but he wasn't a fucking pussy like the opposition to the permanent occupation of Iraq?
Ghulianni believes in monogamy in marriage, just his vision of monogamy includes his many affairs and divorces?
There is no way I would vote for any of those hypocrites.
I hate hypocrites but I applaud ANYONE who "dodges" a draft.
NO ONE should be forced to serve in the military and NO ONE should be forced to fight in a war.
If the reason for going to war isn't compelling enough to draw enough VOLUNTEERS to fight it then it isn't worth fighting, PERIOD.
And I say this as a combat veteran.
Someoby needs to make a large version of that graphic as a poster.
Its great!
I have tried to shout the Chickenhawk thing from the rooftops for the past five or six years. I have a bumper sticker that mentions it. I post links to the various lists online wherever I can. It comes up in every political discussion I have, whether it be with friend or foe. But it seems like the Dem leadership goes out of their way to NOT mention it. Ever!!
It is real sad that these two freaks are even taken serious about running for the higest office in our land.
These people are really making our country out of a circus.
Salmineo @ 25:
The democrats were known as the "war party" before Carter/Reagan. It was democratic leadership that got us into WWI, WWII, Korea and Vietnam. Its only recently the republicans have taken that mantle.
Which is why youll see today's gop pundits offer grudging respect (read: lip service) to the old-school democrats like Truman (the only one they will credit usually, they hate the other war democrats for various other reasons).
Zeke @ 52:
I concur, also as a veteran. Iraq
King of Mean @ 50:
Well, he could have had food poisoning from non-pasteurized cheeses ... what a brave man indeed.
King of Mean @ 50:
Well he could have had food posoning form un-pasteurized cheeses ... what a brave man indeed !
Mitt flip flops on Vietnam too. During his 1994 run, he told a newspaper that he had no desire to serve in Vietnam. Earlier this year he said that while he was serving in France he felt frustrated to not have served.
Some of you people should submit this discrepancy as a youtube question for the GOP debate
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