MoveOn's Pariser Responds To Petraeus Ad Distraction In Senate
By Logan Murphy Thursday Sep 20, 2007 10:49am
MoveOn's Executive Director Eli Pariser joined David Shuster --filling in for Tucker Carlson-- to discuss MoveOn's factual Petraeus ad last week and the giant distraction non-binding resolution passed yesterday in the Senate condemning it. Shuster is a little tough with Eli, but his resolve was never shaken. The farcical resolution was nothing more than a political stunt by Republicans to distract from the content of the ad (and pathetically fallen for by some 20 Democrats) and was, as Eli points out, an "inside the Beltway" issue.
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Pariser also brings up the fact that it's ridiculous to think that while our soldiers are dying in Iraq our Senate is debating a newspaper ad -- and ten days later the polls show the country moving with MoveOn's direction against the war, not against MoveOn. Is it any wonder for the Democrats that going along with these kinds of gutless stunts has managed to do little more than bring record low approval ratings for Congress?
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You guys really need a third party. Both the Democrats and Republicans are useless, at this point.
so...it's moveon.orgs fault that the senate wasted hours discussing the add?
I think some people have a hard time with the notion of a civilian controlled military. If we have to take what our generals say at face value, without questioning or criticism, doesn't that make them Kings? If Petraeus says that we need to be in Iraq for the next 20 years, but we concede to him? At what point MAY we disagree?
It's inane.
It's time to stop recognizing this de facto government.
Geraldo is right, and that's what I've been saying for years.
Both parties always end up being led by people who don't represent the majority of Americans. And that will never change as long as the polarity of the system is maintained.
The system needs to be depolarized and diversified so that one cannot reflexively predict which party will be in power (the swing back and forth between dems and republicans would not be taken for granted, and those who would grab power for the sake of power could not thus position themselves to obtain it as easily). Then "real people" would have more access to the political system.
But as I keep saying, the only way that will happen is if the general public rejects the entire paradigm and unifies around some other mechanism. To do that, someone with a hell of a lot of influence across both sides of the democratic and republican divide would have to get behind the idea.
Maybe somebody could email David Shuster and ask him what happened to his BALLS.
I hope MoveOn runs the Betray-us ad again in a month or so just to prove nobody can push them around. Fuck the ReTards.
I read in the paper about the inaccuracies of the ad. How it said the other reports, like GAO, never called the surge a failure, they just didn't make 11 of the 18 benchmarks. Where I come from 50% is a failure, and 50% of 18 is 9, so 11 is even less than 50%.
Why don't these "analysts" put such hairsplitting distinctions into a boosh speech? I prefer to call them analcysts.
I wonder if the Dems who voted for the amendment really were voting their conscience or were once again afraid of being "labeled". But if you can't explain to voters why it's important to defend political free speech, then you don't belong in the Senate. And I hope they're happy knowing that once again the Repubs in the Senate cloakroom were backslapping and having big laughs at their expense.
those that would vote against free speech would vote for totalitarian government. In fact, they just did. None of the 72 can be re elected unless we want a new hitler. I have been disgusted to be an american before, but when the senate votes to deny free speech, it has become the instrument of treason
"Pariser also brings up the fact that it’s ridiculous to think that while our soldiers are dying in Iraq our Senate is debating a newspaper ad "
He's speaking common sense, people. Listen up... this is what it sounds like.
I'm appalled at the stupidity of the Democrats playing along with this nonissue. What a band of fools, jackasses, and completely ignorant fools running the asylum!
Geraldo @ 1:
I have a few ideas of somethings they could be dealing with other than this waste of time.
So damn pathetic. What a worthless sack of a Congress.
http://dirtycoast.com
It should also be noted that the goober who introduced this was our Texan own John Conyers, who's up for reelection this year.
Nicole Belle: It was John Cornyn, not John Conyers. BIG difference.
So there is a real conundrum in this country that we face. The neocons want to divide us in half, so the use hate tactics like Swiftboating and supporting\encouraging hate groups like Gathering of Eagles that was a big discussion yesterday. When we (the center and left) fight back in a civil manner, we get demonized (as expected). Yet if we push back harder and say "fight fire with fire) we are caving into their divisive tactics. So by fighting them back hard we are giving them what they want (e.g. getting more divided) but there is no way that we can morally or ethically support their ideologies. It seems like a lose-lose situation. What can we do?
Is Tester so outraged by MoveOn's add that he's willing to give back all the campaign they funnelled to his useless ass to begin with? No, probably not! Money talks, bullshit....
MOVE ON from the MoveOn ad, jesus
Did I dream it or was an election held in Nov. 06 and as memory serves me, the Dems'
gained control of both the U.S. Congress and U.S. Senate. However, this week here
are examples of what happened in the U.S. Sentate:
(1) Webb amendment- proposed granting troops an equal amount of time at home
as time served in Iraq. DEFEATED by vote of 56 to 44 (60 Votes needed)
(2) Feingold amendment - proposed cutting off funding for war in Iraq. DEFEATED
by vote of 28 Yeas(Dems) and 70 Nays(Repigs and Dems)
(3) Republican amendment - Resolution condeming MoveOn Ad in the NYT. PASSED
by vote of 72 to 25, with 25 Dems voting "Aye".
(4) Levin amendment - Ordering that most of the troops in Iraq be brought back home
in 9 months. DEFEATED by vote of 47 to 47 (60 Votes needed)
(5) Habeus Corpus proposal to be re-institued. DEFEATED
So, as you can see from above examples of what happened this week only, I am
quite curious as to why it is I, and others in the moderate/liberal cateogry, wasted our
time going to the polls in Nov. of last year for the purpose of "changing the direction".
Nothing has changed inasmuch as it seems more than evident that we have a bunch
of weak kneed, spinless Dems in our Congress who are not abiding by nor beholding
to "WE THE PEOPLE" who elected them to office.
This ALL soooooooo disgusting.
I think everyone american should purchase a DVR or TiVO so that we can make moot the money that these canidates raise for mostly TV ads. I have on e thus am unburedened by the onslaught of advertisements by politicos.
I immediately gave MoveOn 50 dollars after King George's speech. F'm!
If you hadn't run the ad the Senate would not have spent the time condemning it????? That is the dumbest f*$cking thing I've ever heard. Yes Eli, just becasue we have a 1st amendment right to free speech doesn't mean you REALLY have that right. Are the people that are clearly against free speech sure that there's not another country more suited for them.
This is like a kid calling school teachers bastarders in a city where education is low... and people are focusing on the kid.. instead of questioning the schools.
I don't understand how this even made it to the Senate floor for a vote (granted I'm not an expert on the procedures). Doesn't the majority party get to decide what comes up for a vote?
I just wrote to Harry Reid. Any money I contribue in 08 will go to organizations like MoveOn and not the Democratic Party until they get with the program. None of these organizations will be supporting republicans so I won't be shooting myself in the foot, but the money will NOT go into a sitting democrat's campaign coffers until they get in line with the American people.
meanwhile bin laden is laughing his ass off at us and the rest of the world is laughing right along with him.
Wow - Shuster is great. He really does need his own show. It's great to see him doing Tucker's act the RIGHT way.
I think what is going on right now is that the Democrats are pandering to the moderate right wing......this dumb little deal hurts nothing .......If we get the SANE(er) half of the right wing on our side for 2008, we are unstoppable.
V V
ysbaddaden @ 13:
It's ok Ysbaddaden, I often get John Cornyn confused also..not knowing if chicken shit
or a pile of cow manure. We here in Tx. need to do all we can do defeat that sickening
asshole in Nov. 08.
The Moveon.org Patraeus piece... Oh yea.... THAT'S definitely the thing Congress should be spending its' time on... Nothing more important than that going on..... And 20 dems going along for the ride... Being played... AGAIN.....
G.E.T. a f.u.c.k.i.n.g clue morons!!! PFFFT!!!! JD
The Dems SUCK! and will not win the next election. God help us all.
kos has a post up called LCV's class of 2006 "Dirty Dozen" decimated last year. I realize it's about environmental voting, but it's also a bit untimely, if there is such a word, because 4 out of the 12 who defeated the Dirty Dozen also voted against MoveOn yesterday: Tester. Webb, McCaskill and Nelson of Fla. I guess I am no longer willing to balance one of their votes against another: it seems like a shell game to me.
Doggiebobo @ 26:
You have to excuse me, I'm a victim of a Texan education.
What would Math ap Mathonwy think of me now?
Soo, let me get this straight: An 11% approval congress whose clear election mandate to end the war has been flatly ignored, spent precious time and resources (while many other people died, remember!) rebuking an AD that called attention to the ongoing failures, duplicity, and double-speak; An AD which represents an overwhelming majority of the country in wanting to end the war.
The congress pulls this "circle the wagons" resolution shenanigans to protect their flaccid leadersh*t. Lest we forget the turncoat @ssholes who voted with Lieberman:
Dems voting for the resolution to rebuke the MoveOn ad: Baucus, Bayh, Cardin, Carper, Casey, Conrad, Dorgan, Feinstein, Johnson, Klobuchar, Kohl, Landrieu, Leahy, Lieberman, Lincoln, McCaskill, Mikulski, Bill Nelson, Ben Nelson, Pryor, Salazar, Tester, Webb.
I'm recommending MoveOn target every last one of these spineless bastards: Webb most since he's already folded on the blank-check Iraq funds and voted to allow Bush his illegal spying. D.C. has become some sort of ersatz monarchical kingdom that doesn't stoop to abiding by the will of the populace, so in keeping with the style in which they demand to be treated, I say F*ck 'em Royally!!
REASON #187 WHY I SHOULD BE HIRED AS A DEM CONSULTANT
As this resolution condemning the MOVEON AD was presented, speeches and press releases should have inundated the US
with how LITTLE CONFIDENCE THE REPUBLICANS MUST HAVE IN PETRAEUS IF HE NEEDS TO BE PROTECTED
FROM A NEWSPAPER AD. THE REPUBLICANS THINK HE'S SO WEAK HE NEEDS THE SENATE TO PROTECT HIM.
REFRAME FOOLS, REFRAME!
DON'T LET THEM SET THE DEBATE
revulver @ 2:
"Ooo, look, a shiny object!" Damnit, you distracted the senate again, when will you ever learn.
Like Jdo said at 22, how did this come up for a vote? Why is the leadership putting up votes that split dems?
Pawsie @ 21:
Well, it's a lot easier to do that. And it involves little to no work.
;)
The governmental debate has not focused on the content of the ad, which would have furthered political discourse. Instead, the government's position is that political debate should be suppressed, and they strongly fought against the people's right to express their opinion. The Senate's actions are unconstitutional, and expected only in a totalitarian society. Unfortunately, Eli never got the point across that the government should not be voting to silence criticism. In fact, the people better start overseeing the military's actions, before more lives and money are wasted.
Is it revolution time yet?
I would like to know exactly how much money was wasted in bringing this thing to a vote. Translate it into how many americans could have gotten free healthcare for a year with the tax dollars wasted.
And why the hell didn't some Dem block it? How often do we hear about "secret" blocks put on important legislation? What is wrong with these losers?
that was a great interview. Yes! Ask tough questions and give your guest a chance to answer intelligently; throwing softballs is the GOP propagandist frontman way of running an interview. I thought both men came off really well.
Dems:
I have NO idea why you went along with that non-binding resolution yesterday. Are you that deaf? Can't you hear us out here? Have you checked the poles lately? I mean, what: are you letting a republican control the remote or something? The only tv and radio stations you listen to are republican spin machines and you are basing your moves on THAT? Here's a clue: turn off your TVs and get some real news and you might be surprised to find out how many of us are behind anybody working for change.
I have an envelope at home. It arrived in the mail 2 days ago. It has a donkey on the front. I am seriously considering putting a note similar to this post into that envelope rather than a donation and sending a real check to MoveOn.
hanshiro 31,
YouR post reminded me of how the GOP and their base are truly a bumper sticker and slogan loving crowd. Only this time they are freaking out and focusing in the headline of the ad and ignoring, nay, ATTEMTPING TO DISTRACT everybody from actually reading, the substance of the ad. That kind of action comes from the same mindset.
Typical, typical, typical.
Bonkers @ 38:
What does Poland's opinion have to do with us?
Eric in Ottawa @ 36:
It's already well past revilelution.
ysbaddaden @ 40:
Poles went to the polls to elect pols....
I just sent a email to Senator Bill Nelson Fl. If anyone else from Florida wishes to express their disgust with yesterday's vote, please drop him a line and let him know how you feel. If enough of us complain maybe he'll get the message. JUST DO IT!!!
http://billnelson.senate.gov/contact/email.cfm
PS I tried to call but there was no answer(imagine that).
They're debating the ad because they don't have peace talks and can't debate the shape of the table.
Eric in Ottawa @ 36:
Great... all I can think of is a lolcat with the caption: IZ IT CAN BE REVOLUSHUN TIEM NOW PLZ?
Slaughter @ 44:
That reminds me of the "Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy" series where they crash on pre-historic Earth and the Golgafrinchans try to make a misshapen wheel work by painting it a different color.
Geraldo @ 1:
I agree, but sadly, the American people (most of them anyways) are too damn stupid to understand that we need another party and will either vote for the Dems or Reps. Sadly, the majority of Americans only care about stupid things like what's on MTV and shit like that. They need to get the head out of their asses and care about their, our Country.
THE BILL OF RIGHTS
Amendments 1-10 of the Constitution
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The Conventions of a number of the States having, at the time of adopting the Constitution, expressed a desire, in order to prevent misconstruction or abuse of its powers, that further declaratory and restrictive clauses should be added, and as extending the ground of public confidence in the Government will best insure the beneficent ends of its institution;
Resolved, by the Senate and House of Representatives of the United States of America, in Congress assembled, two-thirds of both Houses concurring, that the following articles be proposed to the Legislatures of the several States, as amendments to the Constitution of the United States; all or any of which articles, when ratified by three-fourths of the said Legislatures, to be valid to all intents and purposes as part of the said Constitution, namely:
Amendment I
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances
Bonkers @ 38:
Bonkers and hanshiro,
Awright, awright, awright...ya got me! Damn mispellings...misspelings...missedspellings...Misstorispelling...Ah, ta hell wid it!
;)
ysbaddaden and hanshiro,
Awright, awright, awright...ya got me! Damn mispellings...misspelings...missedspellings...Misstorispelling...Ah, ta hell wid it!
;)
Recalls, anyone? These spineless motherf*ckers may as well pack their briefcases, go home and STAY home, they'll be of more use there!
I can understand the visceral dislike for all things Bush, Petraus included. And given what's being done, it's hard not to want to lash out. But, I come away from this interview thinking MoveOn.org could benefit from an adult influence.
The defense of what what clearly a mistaken "tactic." The arguments in defense of it were less than convincing and spoke more to a youthful defensive denial that anything else.
I'm all for dissecting the Administration SOBs using the media. Bludgeoning them with large blunt instruments isn't the way to do it IMO. I think a nice vivisection will serve the public interest better and prove much more satisfying when served with fava beans and a nice Chianti.
I say we toss 'em a huge garden salad...one vegetable at a time...at high velocity...
Rainbowdonkey @ 19:
So did I! I hope their donations go up so they can cite that as further proof that people in this country agree with them.
Geno in Ptown @ 47:
How true...and as Albert Einstein is quoted as saying:..." Only two things are infinite;
the Universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the former. "
I'm sending money to MoveOn. I've never done it before, but this can't stand. And furthermore, f*ck all Dems in the Senate who voted to validate the Republican's ridiculous meme.
Here again, the tallywhacker tally of imperial jellyfish:
Dems voting for the resolution to rebuke the MoveOn ad: Baucus, Bayh, Cardin, Carper, Casey, Conrad, Dorgan, Feinstein, Johnson, Klobuchar, Kohl, Landrieu, Leahy, Lieberman, Lincoln, McCaskill, Mikulski, Bill Nelson, Ben Nelson, Pryor, Salazar, Tester, Webb.
Do not forget...
Gremlin @ 55:
Good point. Does anyone know the status of donations to MoveOn since this raging noncontroversy erupted?
Good job Eli. I wish he had said when asked does move on owe an aoplogy to Petraeus, "we'll apologize to Petraeus when Ann Coulter aplogizes to John Edwards for calling him a faggot and slandering the families of 9-11. We'll apologize when Ted Nugent apologizes for calling Hillary a bitch, and telling Osama to suck his dick. We'll apologize when Rush Limbaugh, Glenn Beck, and the rest of these right wingers who are allowed, even encouraged, to spew out hate apologize."
hanshiro @ 58:
No, we shall not forget or forgive....by the way, LIE-berman is an "Independent"..haha
really a Repig.
Another aspect of this whole Petraues thing that gets me. As Bu$h said, they can insult me all they want, but they went beyond the line in caling into question Petraues' credibility. They key point to take out of this whole exchange is that the military has become almost deified in our country. They are untouchable, beyond reproach, almost worshipped by both sides of the aisle, and many, many Americans (usually of the ignorant slant). Last I heard, the military answered to CIVILIAN AUTHORITY! Fascism may be too strong of a word to use yet in labeling this Bu$h regime, but I think nationalism is right on target.
More proof that they're all the same, they all answer to the same masters. The so-called "2 party" system is a joke. Time to start over.
"Geraldo is right, and that's what I've been saying for years. ('You guys really need a third party. Both the Democrats and Republicans are useless, at this point.')
"Both parties always end up being led by people who don't represent the majority of Americans. And that will never change as long as the polarity of the system is maintained.
"The system needs to be depolarized and diversified so that one cannot reflexively predict which party will be in power (the swing back and forth between dems and republicans would not be taken for granted, and those who would grab power for the sake of power could not thus position themselves to obtain it as easily). Then "real people" would have more access to the political system."
The trouble is there will always be as many "poles" as there are parties to cling to them. Worse, a viable third party would before long become as beholden to special (read "corporate") interests as are our current batch of losers. What we need is a complete revamping of our political system beginning with, but not limited to, public campaign financing.
I still dislike the MoveOn.org ad, simply because that's not how I was taught to carry on a debate.
But with the sad showing of Democrats as they not only preside over the defeat of the Webb amendment and Restore Habeas resolution, they sat there dumbfounded and got steamrollered AGAIN by the GOP and their whiny motion against MoveOn.
The 'Not One Red Cent' idea is looking more and more appealing, I tell ya ... I'm tired of waiting for the Democrats to 'do something'. 100 days ... and then nothing, like they were all tuckered out and it was just too hard to do anything until after Jan. 20, 2009.
It was 'this summer' then 'this winter' then 'next spring' now 'next summer'. Give me a fricking break! If you want the troops home, do it! Cut off funding. Make sure the American people know every last drop of blood in 3,793 (or at least the 793 since the surge was implemented) bodies lies at the doorsteps of the Republicans who think party loyalty makes a C-student into a Nobel Prize Laureate.
And impeachment! It's apparently not worth the bother. I see 3,793 valid reasons to be bothered. You don't wait for a drunk driver to run off the yard and mow down a little kid, you get him out from behind the fricking wheel ASAP.
hell half the pricks we elected as democrats in 06 are just under the blanket republicans, infiltratiors into the democratic party,rove did his job well and he set us up to get screwed evey election because you never know whos a friend or whos the wolf in dem clothing, but like the germans who spoke english and dressed like americans in the battle of the bulge in the ardennes they should get the ultimate penalty for selling us out , kucinich 08 !
Nanner Pelosi is AWOL
tyree @ 65:
Hell YES! With Feingold in there somewhere. Kucinich/Feingold '08
hanshiro @ 67:
Minor hijack to say:
What the hell was up with Feingold-Reid? Did Harry co-sponsor it so he could sweep it under the rug?
The ad was brilliant! Proof?
We're still talking about it. Although this being the US, most of the country is only talking about the headline to the ad. However, I feel certain that some - a few anyway - who got sucked into this discussion by the headline wil have then found their way to the text. Perhaps even had their eyes opened.
The Dems need to force the GOP into 100% full-time filibuster mode and then make them explain that during the election cycle next year. Dem leadership is still playing it too safe. Too worried about how the "other guys" will frame their actions.
I've been a moveon member for @10 years. I just gave them another donation.
Keep up the great work Move-on. Attack, attack, attack the rethuglican party>
A Richard Head @ 43:
How's this:
Dear Senator Nelson,
WHY in the world did you vote "Aye" for this worthless measure? MoveOn.org was exercising their right to free speech. Did ANY Democrats even think of drafting such a ridiculous bill to condemn the Swift Boaters back in 2004?
Do you even care what your constituents think? We want this war to end. Bush is not, contrary to how he may think, a dictator.
You have no idea how disgusted I am with the way you and the rest of the Democratic "majority" in Congress have conducted yourselves since the 2006 election.
Is it impossible for Democrats to learn ANYTHING about fighting back against the Republican thugs who CONTINUE to bully you guys into submission on practically EVERYTHING?
Start acting like you're part of the majority party and not placating King George and his sycophants.
We need to vote for a third party candidate. Starting with Kucinich. He is left out of democratic debates, etc. He is essentially a third party candidate, but he doesn't have to go through special procedures to get on the ticket. Unlike most third parties, he would actually show up on my ballot in Alabama. So, Kucinich for president!!
We should all write MoveOn and tell them to send some of that cash to Kucinich. We know he isn't a repug in dem clothing.
When your elected officials don't speak to We The People, you start giving money to the organization that does.
I gave to MoveOn.org yesterday for the first time. And I will give again.
No longer will my money go to Democrats like CA Feinstein who vote their own corporate $$$ interests rather than the people she is suppose to represent.
I will work hard to get her FIRED in the next election.
For the people who disapprove of the tone of the ad, or worse, think it's childish, please remember that when the opposition (we) behave by the 'rules' we get bulldozed. We abided by parliamentary procedure and what happened? The GOP crowbarred the Medicare vote open for over 3 hours in the dead of night, twisting arms and generally threatening legislators. They don't play by the rules, then have their noise machine bombard the airwaves with justifications.
People, meanwhile, are dying. We no longer have the time nor the arena to be polite, etc. Bring the issue rudely into the open. I don't disagree with ANYTHING the MoveOn ad said: we've been spun, lied to, laughed at and dismissed. Well, F*ck you GOP! (and you turncoat spineless Dems!) MoveOn is the only force, outside of Olbermann, Stewart and Colbert, with the stones to tell it like it is! This administration, this 'government' is a sham. A sham that is indifferent to killing more civilians than Saddam, irradiating Iraq with depleted uranium, shredding the Constitution, Habeas Corpus, Billions lost, dead troops, NO ARMOR, Christ, the list is endless.
And people are worried about being impolite? Are you kidding? Do you even realize what's at stake? Are these the same people who quietly accept their "protest areas" as mandated by Commander Coocoo-Bananas?
To MoveOn: {{Standing*applause* Ovation}}
let the crooked bastards get by on thier lobbiest money , dont give em shit!
A Richard Head @ 43:
Before the sun was completely up this morning, I had e-mailed my "favorite" Senator (Nelson--FL) to tell him how utterly clueless he is . . . and to please refrain from soliciting my support in the future. I NEW Martinez was merely a political animal, but had hoped that Nelson might show just a bit of spine. WRONG!
Oddly enough I just got an e-mail from the DSCC seeking a donation. I unsubscribed from their e-mail list and sent this reply to them:
Yackety yacking is not going to make change. People need to take to the streets.
Why are people at all surprised? The public has voted the Democrats into office to do things that they aren’t set up to do. To challenge corporate power, which they aren’t willing to, you need an active citizenry and a participatory nature to the political party, as well as a relatively decentralized decision making process. Neither party has this. Both parties are made up of people who’d like you to think are in some ways better than and smarter than you, and can solve all your problems, when they aren’t and can’t. I think it’s an outgrowth of the representative government that we have, which really hasn’t evolved since the 18th century here. Neither party really disagrees ideologically, they have small differences but it’s really rhetorical more than anything. Any politician in another country, like Chavez, who actually DOES do what the public wants comes under attack by the elites in each party. Maybe we should all think as to why. Do they view the idea that WE, and not THEM, can solve the countries problems?
Do they view the idea that WE, and not THEM, can solve the countries problems as a threat?
Eli Pariser did a good job fending off the silly attacks by David Shuster, but one of the best things about MoveOn's ad wasn't discussed by either man - the wonderfully effective way that it drew out the enemy and exposed their positions.
Today we know which Democrats we cannot depend on to do what is needed - get our country out of Bush's criminal occupation, asap. To stop the BushCo war machine America needs more than mere Democrats, it needs LIBERALS to dominate both houses of congress. That's a much, much bigger challenge than we faced in the 2006 elections, but it has to be done, or America will continue to tumble downwards into the dark pit of incessant war and financial ruin.
Today's conservative Republican and Democratic majority is ruining America, and it will always fail to protect us from the fundamental corruption of its myopic ideology, which includes lapdog devotion to the military and the industries that feed the monster. MoveOn's add exposed the people that keep feeding the monster. We need to get those people out of office, fast.
i get out my checkbook.. write moveon another check.
keep it up guys! You're winning. The fact that they got so up in arms means that you really struck a nerve.
I don't think it's "inside the beltway" at all. What about next year, when MoveOn is supporting progressives, and the GOP trots out this vote? "My opponent is supported by MoveOn.org, which half the Democrats rightly condemned as an extremist organization!" These clowns are going to kneecap activists in their own party! It's no sideshow. Not only will they not do anything about Iraq, they're trying to tear down anyone who wants it to stop.
This is really the last straw, as far as I'm concerned. Being helpless to stop the war or hold Bush accountable for lying us into it is bad enough, but the Cornyn amendment is downright destructive. Either they didn't see that, or they don't care, or they're on the wrong side. I mean, the best you can say about it that they sided with Cornyn-- Cornyn, for god's sake!-- in a political stunt against their own party. It's just way over the line.
what a moronic establishment douche shuster is
nsr, good post, but it doesn't have to do with their party, they agree ideologically, their self interest is keeping power in DC, with them making all the deicisions. You pesky citizens should just shut up and let the more intelligent folk make all the decisions. THEY, and the media made up of the same class of people, decide what is and isn't respectable debate.
Gremlin @ 55:
I don't think there's any doubt that MoveOn.org is already experiencing a major boost in donations. The amount of free publicity and hours of air-time that's been handed to them over the past couple weeks about them is incredible.
I bet at least half the people out there in MSM-land had never even heard of MoveOn.org before.
Not to mention the fact that the "Betray-Us" meme has been repeated relentlessly, and is now on millions of people's lips.
By the time this finally dies down Eli Pariser will be worn out from appearing on national television to repeat his talking points again and again and again, but I notice he hasn't backed down an inch; which is exactly the right strategy.
Thanks to all the knee-jerk sanctimonious efforts to generate outrage this is easily the most successful ad Move.on has ever produced.
http://www.freewayblogger.com/
Excellent signs.
My favorite? "We refuse to fight in a war started by men who refused to fight in a war."
or,
"I'm tired of hearing what rich people think."
or,
"Who would've thought that a LIFELONG FAILURE would turn out to be such a LOUSY PRESIDENT?"
the senate can go to Hell. They don't care that millions of Iraqis have been displaced and millions more have had to move to Syria and Jordan. A 65k ad bothers them. Not GIs families losing their loved ones because Rummy gave them Lincoln log and Lego blocks armor while he was buying a 7 figure vacation home in Maryland
Exactly. I think even if the Dems held a 60/40 majority they would still be unable to bring about change since their ranks are riddled with DINOs (e.g., Salazar, etc.) who will show their true colors only when forced to do so. They will vote with the Democratic majority only so long as it is clear that the GOP has sufficient votes to block the legislation. Later these same DINOs will help to broker a "compromise" which really is a window dressed version of what the GOP minority wants. That is why the GOP is able to move its legislation even though it is the minority party.
The other supposed aspect of a Democratic majority have also been fairly hollow. They've managed to issue a few supeonas and hold hearings to discuss what has already appeared in the media. Any attempt to uncover new information has been successfully met with White House stonewalling. The vote in '06 has replaced a GOP rubberstamp Congress with a Democratic rubberstamp Congress.
Its time to MOVE ON from the Democratic party...
I don't think I have ever been so disappointed in my entire political life...
They are pathetic beyond measure... and as effective at protecting the status quo, as the eunuchs were at not sleeping with the harem.
Just as I said that Kerry was the last time I would vote for a Dem that I knew would betray us all and not do what he said he would do...
Kucinich is the last Democratic party person I vote for... Except Fiengold... who is my Senator.
rduke @ 89:
I'm stuck with Jimmy-"Blank check, NSA? SURE!, Finger-Wag At MoveOn," Webb...I'm considering a move.
I too would vote enthusiastically for Kucinich...Kucinich/Feingold-dream ticket.
elections are coming up and those "demopublicans" can be replaced. if you vote with the repugs all the time, then you need to go be with the repugs. we have had enough of the two-faced dems.
Everyone should all make a sign with the words
‘WHEN INJUSTICE BECOMES LAW, RESISTANCE BECOMES DUTY’
The disconnect with Schuster, (whom I like very much) is that Moveon is in touch with the people, whereas the Senators in the beltway are totally out of touch with the people. Eli, is right. Since Pertreaus tesitified, the polls are actually shown an increase in people that do not support the War and believe the surge has failed. More proof that the idiots in the Senate are pandering cowards.
Upside: with the passing of the idiotic condemnation, perhaps the issue can finally be put to rest? Personally, I'm still waiting for MoveOn's next brilliant move. They must have something really great planned that will show us all why the Betray Us ad was such a wise decision, right?
Eli Pariser did a good job fending off the silly attacks by David Shuster, but one of the best things about MoveOn's ad wasn't discussed by either man - the wonderfully effective way that the advertisement drew out the enemy and exposed their position.
Today we know which Democrats we cannot depend on to do what is needed - get our country out of Bush's criminal occupation, asap. To stop the BushCo war machine America needs more than mere Democrats, it needs LIBERALS to dominate both houses of congress. That's a much, much bigger challenge than we faced in the 2006 elections, but it has to be done, or America will continue to dig itself deeper into this dark pit of incessant war and financial ruin.
Today's conservative Republican and Democratic majority is ruining America, and it will always fail to protect us from the fundamental corruption of its myopic ideology, which includes lapdog devotion to the military and the industries that feed the monster. MoveOn's add exposed the people that keep feeding the monster. We need to get those people out of office, fast.
ill eat shit before i eat soylent green,
Shuster is helping to divide the half in half.
Americablog reports half-a-MILLION $$$ raised by MoveOn because of the idiotic "resolution" against MoveOn. WooHoo!!
Another controversy in the media and public opinion has been Brittany's performance at the VMA's. I think it would really serve the public if congress could debate and vote on a non-binding resolution to condemn her performance. Otherwise, if I was interested, I would have to watch it and form my own opinion.
hanshiro @ 97:
Me too...NO more donations/contributions to any Dem...my money, as just done, is going
to MoveOn since that organizations represents my views more than any of the politicians.
Where you come from, there is no math?
I'm extremely disappointed by my usually reasonable Senators Mikulski and Cardin. Time to fire off a few emails...
.
Shuster parroted the concept, "If you hadn't done anything, the Senate wouldn't have spent their time arguing the ad. A valid point only to a certain degree. Shuster moved that point into the concept, "Get along and don't make waves. If the boat's a-rocking it's because your making waves."
I find it utterly sad that the Senate can not get it's act together and be consistent with it's duty and Oath. They much rather spend our tax dollars invading, killing, and maiming. They would much rather address their sensitivities to an ad than to what actions have sprung from their decisions.
.
Who are these idiotic Democrats who betrayed the people and helped to focus attention on an ad instead of the message. These people are not thinking about us. They are not thinking, period. We should all write to them and let them have a piece of our mind. Keith O. was correct when he said that the Repugs are g-u-i-l-t-y of attacking and politicizing our military. I will continue to donate my money to moveon. Post the traitors names so we can write them and chastise them for not focusing on the important issues, the message. They are wimps and not fit for the fight.
To office of Sen Patrick Leahy,
Respectfully, why was it necessary for Sen Leahy to vote along with the Republicans condeming the Mone-On ad re: Betrayus? Is the Senator afraid of being called on not supporting the troops? Why not refuse to vote on such silliness. I sent Move-On a $100 donation yesterday to show my support for their position and to encourage them to continue to FIGHT the repubs in Congress and the President. That donation would have gone to a Democratic presidential contender. No more. From now on I only support those who support my position, and the millions of like-minded citizens.
Sen Leahy was one of my heroes in the Senate. The operative word being "was." I look forward to his response. I am posting this message on all the progressive blog sites I frequent.
And finally, I flew from Los Angeles to Washington to participate in the Saturday demonstration and march on the Capitol. Too bad the Senator could not find the time to speak to the protestors. Every day my respect fot the Democratic party slips away.
They fall for Repubnant distractions ALL THE TIME. They had an opportunity to bring home the point of cherry picking of the data and THEY BLEW IT, just as they always do. These attacks are opportunities to make your points--not cave in to criticism. These lawmakers are useless and ball less.
Was I hearing correctly: David Shuster was taken in by the Beltway Pearl-clutcher's Bawling?
CONGRATULATIONS to MoveOn for having the huevos to not back down! Democratic leadership, take note! If the Democratic party is not careful, they will see a third party surface in politics, The Move On Party!!!!
I would like to stay and chat but I'm going over to MoveOn to sign-up and send a donation - bravery must be rewarded!!!
Joshdavis @ 24:
We want Shuster, We want Shuster, We want Shuster.
It was the best program during Tucker's spot I've seen since Shuster hosted the last Tucker show!
A very good showing by Eli. One thing he could have emphasized is that the advertisement in question was loaded with well-substantiated facts (not just someone's opinion), yet the Senate did not debate the facts.
Had they done so, we could have had a real debate.
Given that Democrats joined in this extraordinary staged move suggests that these same Democrats no longer deserve MoveOn's support.
Frankly, any Democratic Senator who cannot stand up, filibuster, and end this war is not worth our attention. Currently, none of them have the balls.
Doggiebobo @ 99:
I sent MoveOn another donation too.
The Dems. have become cocky and will do anything that the Repbulicans want them to do, because they feel that they are going to win the White House and quite possibly more congressional seats in '08 no matter what.
What a f***wad that guy who interviewed him was.
Eli is hot............so is MoveON..............I'm sending in ANOTHER DONATION since there was such an overwhelming response from the troops in favor of this ad.
Alecia @ 111:
Ummmm, this doesn't make any sense!!!
Can you fire the government for waste, fraud and abuse? Ths MoveOn thing is puerile. It was an ad expressing an opinion, in a country that purportedly has free speech.
Check out this site, to see there are other dissenting opinions in the USA too:
http://www.hatecrime.org/subpages/hatespeech/hate.html
WHO CARES WHAT THE DEMS THINK? They've proven they're inept. So 20 voted with the GOP. What else is new?
You need a third (and maybe 4th) party!!!! Very desperately!!!!
Cythraul @ 102:
(tee hee hee) And...
Where Dick Cheney comes from (hmmm... thinking about that-- scary) 50% + 1 = a clear majority and a mandate to do whatever the hell you want: shred the constitution, get in bed with big oil, bomb indiscriminately any nation you like (spin globe, drop bombs), imprison, torture, and basically do everything one can to un-Americanize America.
He so nailed it when he responded to Shuster's assertion that people think it was a mistake to run the ad. ONLY IN WASHINGTON does it matter more what an ad says than the fact that the troops are still in the hellhole of war!!
Why should they apologize for an ad that was rather tame actually. Why is it some people are more concerned with faux courtesies and than in the substance of an issue? My guess is that it was easier to focus on the ad and engage in feigned outrage than it was to actually do something meaningful about this war, our economy, lack of healthcare, etc. In fact, I'd go so far as to say it was a welcomed distraction.
Here is what I will be sending Feinstein: Move on better represents my position than you do. I will be sending them money, not you.
Yep. It's really that simple. 10 more years in Iraq so the Iranians don't get all the oil.
Bush and the Neo-Cons are pulling the biggest scam and pack of lies in the history of the United States.
Well, I personally think that the "Freedomswatch.org" commercial that I saw over and over again tonight on CNN was one of the most disgusting adds that I've seen in quite a while. After what we've lived through for the last seven years that they could even try to say that George Bush or General Petreus represent or stand for either our nation or our troops is almost laughable. How about getting back to basics..the truth, freedom of speach...basically America as number one and not the oil companies! The only difference with me being disgusted by their add is that I still do believe in freedom of speach, so I believe that you had a right to run their misguided load of crap.
"(...pathetically fallen for by some 20 Democrats)" -- Logan
"Fallen for"? Most of those Senators 'fell' for Bushco YEARS ago, and have voted with the Republicans over and over.
But it is clear to anyone that the resolution backfired. It gives the head of Move-On clear rein to appear on the tele for YEARS now, with this mark of the beast. It sent a LOT of fundraising to Move-On, which they will be bragging about in 3, 2, 1....
And it helped expose the reason WHY impeachment is off the table.
heil hannity is going to be doing a 4 part series on moveon.....should be a laff riot
hope john posts it, cuz i have blocked faux on my tv....porn upsets me
What no one seems to realize is that the Bushes have again taken the focus away from the facts and Have got the MSM to carry the water for them.
Tucker still sucks but at least we know MoveOn’s Executive Director Eli Pariser has a head on his shoulders, the courage of his convictions and he can certainly disassemble a pompous talking points talking head.
Good for Pariser and good for MovOn!
Geraldo @ 1:
Agreed completely.
Also, I'd like to say good on Eli!
These are the idiots who voted for the resolution. Tell them what a mistake they made and how very ANGRY you are.
Baucus
Bayh
Cardin
Carper
Casey
Conrad
Dorgan
Feinstein
Johnson
Klobuchar
Kohl
Landrieu
Leahy
Lieberman
Lincoln
McCaskill
Mikulski
Bill Nelson
Ben Nelson
Pryor
Salazar
Tester
Webb
The best that Schuster (of course, with his wingnut boss holding a figurative knife to his neck) could do is claim that MoveOn is responsible for the Senate wasting time over an ad? Or to ignore the positive polling data for MoveOn's position because "some people" think it was bad politically? Are we in the twilight zone?
jkb @ 129:
I sure hope so, because if this is real...
MoveOn has sent Janet a letter which i think is a MUST READ!
I just cannot hardly accept that Leahy voted for this dispicable resolution.
I thought he was one of the good guys? Everyone of these people should have to face a Democratic challenger in their next primary. Lets try to make that happen. Lets not forget their names.
Bush is the one who is pathetic.
The Global Internet Community (We The People) is metamorphosing our Body Politic faster than the Corporatist-driven propagandists can keep up. They cannot stop us. Increasing numbers of us are getting clear about corporatism and its myriad shills, e.g. Fox, ABC, CBS, NBC, CNN, Bushco, Congress, et. al.
To those of you who have hinted at Revolution, I wonder if you can't see the forest for the trees. We The People ARE in the initial throes of our revolution, as one can clearly see by what we're accomplishing via the Internet. This revolution will be much bigger than any before--and different from ANY we've seen before. We will be faster, smarter, and more adaptable given the challenges we face and the tools we have at our disposal. AND, the Corporate Megalomaniacs will continue to underestimate us (I suspect they see ALL of us sitting on our fat asses watching their vidiot boxes while they take over our world...stupid, stupid mistake on their part!)
In 1789, the French Imperialists had to learn their lessons the hard way. I am confident that the Corporatists are doomed to make the same mistake.
Daisy Zimmerly @ 132:
Leahy's vote is as meaningless as the rest of them.
If you think Senators can be faced with primaries you don't understand the Senate.
Leahy as an example (not that we need to worry about replacing Leahy), he first gained the Senate in 1974, has solid support in Vermont, and is not up for reelection until 2010. He will be 70, so he probably won't be retiring instead.
Here's his last race:
2004 Race for U.S. Senate
Patrick Leahy (D) (inc.), 71%
Jack McMullen (R) 25%
So, good luck if you want to replace him EVER. He will retire when he wants to, and until then, he's untouchable. And, he's also doing very good work for the country -- he's a main reason why Gonzales is working at a 7-11 instead of at the Justice Department.
Chervilant @ 134:
That's hilarious. Sure thing.
Civic institutions like moveon.org seems like our last great hope to finally push back against the insidious "congressional industrial military complex".
DeToqueville (Democracy in America) said that civic institutions had tremendous power to express the people's will if government and big business ignored it.
The Blue puppet will not correct the Red puppet when there is one master holding sway over them. We need to organize ourselves behind those organizations that will take on the great democratic struggle of our time. American history is replete with such civic organizations moving progressive change forward, Unions, women's organizations, Civil rights groups and so forth. each a champion of its era. Web organizing in the age of isolation is the key in our time and our votes, creativity, money and time, our power.
I'm glad to see some people waking up to this and helping the alliance that MoveOn.org is a part of fight back against the Imperialization of America.
Democracy Matters.
I sent an email yesterday to Sen. Casey in PA and reminded him that he was elected to *replace* Rick Santorum, not *become* him.
Most Democrats in congress are pussies. Pelosi is a traitor to the party and Reed has about as much charisma as overcooked spagetti. Where the hell is Bill Clinton. He made mince meat out of the Republicans and their attempted ambushes (with one large exception). Why didn't Democrats make the Repugnants take a vote on condemning the attack ads on Max Cleland or the Swiftboat ads? WTF. We need more bills like the Webb ammendment so the military can see who is really on their side. How much do the mercenaries fighting in Iraq get paid by the US govt. compared to our armed forces? Its a new world order.
IraqIsDisaster @ 139:
He's around. Unlike Speaker Pelosi, he got out of politics without raising a whisper about the stolen race in 2000 'giving' power over to the Bushco coup. Not exactly fighting back like you suggest.
Speaker Pelosi has fought for this country in the House since 1987. She, unlike you, counted the votes in the Senate BEFORE going along with idiotic idea of an impeachment with no conviction and removal. And you can see from all of these votes this week why.
So stow your slander and look to what you can do for your country other than blame the wrong people.
redcat @ 23:
how true......how true
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