Thou Shalt Not Kill...
By Nicole Belle Sunday Oct 07, 2007 11:48am...except in a video game for Jesus.
NY Times: (h/t Rick)
First the percussive sounds of sniper fire and the thrill of the kill. Then the gospel of peace.
Across the country, hundreds of ministers and pastors desperate to reach young congregants have drawn concern and criticism through their use of an unusual recruiting tool: the immersive and violent video game Halo.[..]
Those buying it must be 17 years old, given it is rated M for mature audiences. But that has not prevented leaders at churches and youth centers across Protestant denominations, including evangelical churches that have cautioned against violent entertainment, from holding heavily attended Halo nights and stocking their centers with multiple game consoles so dozens of teenagers can flock around big-screen televisions and shoot it out.
The alliance of popular culture and evangelism is challenging churches much as bingo games did in the 1960s. And the question fits into a rich debate about how far churches should go to reach young people.
Far from being defensive, church leaders who support Halo - despite its "thou shalt kill" credo - celebrate it as a modern and sometimes singularly effective tool. It is crucial, they say, to reach the elusive audience of boys and young men.
Oh, I don't know....one would think the line has been crossed when one is encouraging kids to kill (even if only virtually) to bring them to Jesus. This is a whole new take on "WWJD" that sadly reflects more on our society than religion.
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The new Templar Knights have to come from somewhere.
It just shows that they will do anything to rope another generation of the gullible to support them in their pursuit to live well and only work one day a week.
Possibly Frist. The reason that the right wing idiots are getting crazier and crazier is that they are actually LOSING the big war......youth support for religion is down I think to an all time low, actually over support for homosexuals......also several other big trends and shifts in public attitude.....poverty is more important than the sanctity of marriage, etc...
V V
Sounds like those churches are taking some lessons from some of the most radical madrasahs
around the world.
Teach your young to hate.
Jesus must be so proud...
arrg.. what happened to the site layout?
Religion is death, death is religion. No game about Jesus would be complete without slaying of infidels.
[...] David Williamson Shaffer wrote an interesting post today onHere’s a quick excerptAcross the country, hundreds of ministers and pastors desperate to reach young congregants have drawn concern and criticism through their use of an unusual recruiting tool: the immersive and violent video game Halo.[..] … [...]
I don't see what the big deal is. Halo 3 is rated M? In the previous games, you are shooting nothing but aliens during the single player campaign, and multiplayer didn't even have blood. It's more like a paintball game than anything else.
I might not have gone athiest if my church had fun stuff like this when I was growing up.
Holy template change, Batman!
Umm, what just happened to the cool, old format?
What's with the new design? It's "cleaner" than the old one, but it looks really primitive - like one of the basic templates you get from WordPress or some such. It would have been nice to get a little warning or even put up a few examples and let people vote. Oh. Well.
Thumbs down on the new layout.....
Holy template change, again!
I remember not being able to play Goldeneye at a Baptist lock-in before. We argued that it wasn't really all that violent, but it was the right call in hindsight. We played Mario Kart instead.
Makes me think of a priest I know. He bought an Xbox and Halo either when he was in seminary or just finished. He loved it. I always found it as a strange and fulfilling irony. I'll have to ask him sometime if he ever plays anymore.
Oh, the old template's back. I'm keeping up the window with the new template just so that I don't trick myself later into thinking that it was my imagination.
(Hope it stays this way)
This is one step away from preaching a Christian version of Jihad. And if this fails, rest assured there will be a draft. The war machine needs ammunition .
I don't think Satan himself could come up with such trickery to bring Christians to evil.
wow talk about crazies. where's free speech? you think that by merely playing an outer-space shooter VIDEO GAME that makes someone a bad Christian OR a bad person? I generally agree with this site but this is bonkers. come on people. its not like they are endorsing violence, they are endorsing kids having fun together in a healthy environment.
It's a video game.
No one is dying, and no one is learning to kill.
Don't buy into the idea that a game is reality.
It's kind of creepy.
Let's see, we can't
recruitwin them over with our morals, ideals, lifestyle and teachings. So we'll give 'em Halo.I have to ask, when Jesus was crucified, did he "level up"?
ckerst - I don't think that's fair. I know the pastors at my church work very hard. Some may only see them on Sundays, but at least at my church they spend the week working doing hospice care, home visits, counseling, and any number of works projects including a project to give shelter to the homeless, food pantry, etc. My church also embraces responsible economics, open giving and sharing of resources, simplicity and care for the earth and the community.
Sadly, I know this is not the case in many other churches.
This story is disturbing. I am a member of the Mennonite Church, and we abhor violence in all forms. So, this goes against how I view my faith. To lure in kids with violent video games is really gross. It is also hypocritical. It makes me question what kind of message they are sending their congregations every week......so many people these days, who claim to be Christian, also support war in Iraq and the death penalty. It doesn't add up......but there are many of out here who are Christian, who don't fit the mold of "Christian Conservative"....."Religious Right"....or the new one, "Social Conservatives"....blech.
They don't want to be called evangelicals or the religious right anymore. They want to be social conservatives.
From the people that gave us the concept of the "worthy poor." Fuck Pure and undefiled religion visiting orphans and widows in their distress, feeding the hungry, sheltering the homeless.
ironicly, its the covenant (the bad guys) who are the fundementalists in the war. the alien preists even talk and spout religious propaganda in different levels.
Wow... the church's teachings are so good they require a bait and switch method to get people to join up.
Colin @ 19:
The problem with Americans who've never traveled outside of the U.S. is that they have never experienced what it's like to be directly affected by war and as a result, the majority, are desensitized. Video games enforce those feelings.
Halo is tame as far as video games go. The violence is fairly minimal and almost entirely directed at aliens, robots or alien zombies. It certainly doesn't teach anyone to hate.
The really interesting thing is, the evangelicals chose a game where the primary antagonists are religious fanatics. Of the three bad guy groups in Halo, the major one is "The Covenant", who are waging a holy war against humanity.
"It is crucial, they say, to reach the elusive audience of boys and young men."
I thought that what girls were for.
Sorry, but it reflects on religion. Religion was created as a means by which ignorant people could explain the mysterious world around them before they had modern scientific explanations. Now that they don't have the "truth" on their side, and the appeal of tribalism isn't working (most of the world knows the global tribe is inevitable), those still ignorant are now left with "hey, we're cool, see, we have cool games!" Problem is, they want them to stop playing the games and do something meaningful with their lives. So they lie.
What's next? "Walk towards the light...we have gays, abortion doctors, hippies, goths, Harry Potter books, uncut hip hop, XXX porn and a bag of pot!" Submit to temptation, for now anyway.
BTW, I'm referring to these recruiters specifically--I respect others right to believe in a God. But he doesn't exist, come on now, really....
Colin @ 19:
How much does a 30 second ad spot fetch these days?
Gotta suck in the future slack-jawed supporters of the christianist myth - and what better way than to scare the shit out of them.
After all, the fundies get to kill the non-fundies, and if you aren't one of the former, you just may get killed. Also it is a great way to prepare kids to want to join the army of god that will be keeping the US holy after theocracy settles in.
This is precisely why organized religion should be outlawed - it allows a few to control the many, simply by fear.
The current government has the technique down pat. Just control much of the media, and the rest is easy!
Let's not forget the "Left Behind" video game either:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Left_Behind:_Eternal_Forces
[disclaimer: i have no beef with halo, sorry]
notice that this is a story.
what is seldom (if ever) mentioned is the destructive effect of missionaries and the church on cultures and societies across the world for generation after generation.
personally, i think it is hypocritical for a church to use halo 3 as a way to lure kids into their lair. but i find the organized church's use of war and violence in their long term strategy as the truly reprehensible act. and for centuries we have tacitly yawned as civilizations worldwide have been decimated and enslaved in the name of Christianity. I like to think that Jesus would not approve. of course SOME that claim to speak for Jesus keep their mouths shut and watch what is being in the name of Chrisitianty.
read the bible
it is "thou shall not murder"
Actually, when I was a kid Jesus had the top score on space invaders.
AndrewK @ 24:
Sounds like the military. No wonder they love each other.
“Did not Moses give you the law, and yet none of you keepeth the law" (John7:19)
"It is easier for Heaven and Earth to pass away than for the smallest part of the letter of the law to become invalid." (Luke 16:17 NAB)
"Thou shall't not kill." (6th Commandment)
Amen.
Our minister preached about this article yesterday morning.
He essentially said that if that's what it takes to bribe kids to come to church, then it's better that they stay outside sinning to their heart's content.
This is just the latest repackaging of "in the world" secular merchandise as a Kristchun brand. Slap a cross on the outside of the packaging, get a Kristchun company to market it (thanks to the tax deductable donations of the faithful) and viola! The Kirstchun equivalent of you favorite worldly video game, or your favorite rock band, or T-Shirt or Burrito, or,..? Theology be damned, all this is is closed licensing for readily available products. Don't buy a "worldly" iPod; get your official, Jesus Approved "GodPod" today.
I'm waiting for the "Mary Magdalene: Unclothed and Horny" game to come out.
There are many good first-person shooters. Halo is one of the best, but it is also one that contains as its narrative subtext the clash of civilizations between the humans and the Covenant (there are of course others like the Flood). Anyone who has watched the Halo 2 cinematics should know that the game draws parallels between the humans and Christianity and, more tellingly, between the Covenant and Islam. Halo's creators have even acknowledged these original sources, and it is this parallel that gave me pause about this story, which is why these churches consider Halo to be a more desirable tool than another game.
That being said, the kids who play Halo at church would probably be at church anyway. It's not like kids have to go very far to play videogames, and what previous posters have said is true, that Halo is one of the milder violent games out there. It's also a good game that a lot of kids know how to play and that has excellent multiplayer capability, so it's not surprising that churches would use it, above and beyond any inherent message. The fact that Halo could convincingly be used as a tool to preach intolerance and the "civlization clash" presumes that these kids are playing the campaign mode, which in these settings they likely aren't.
Posters who believe that games are games and movies are movies should look into their naivete. I didn't like being what to watch and what not to watch, but the jury is very much out on whether this kind of exposure breeds acceptance of violence. In a church setting, it could breed God-sanctified violence, which is the last thing we need. My personal feeling is that exposure to violence does desensitize, but primarily in younger children than these. Ultimately, this is the least of the church's tactics that I would feel threatened by, although it does perhaps expose their opportunism and hypocrisy.
I still say churches would be more successful if their clergy wore garter belts.
I've put more money into garter belts than any collection plates.
Johnny2Bad @ 36:
I see in the background what appears to be Guitar Hero II being played. I don't remember that game having any Christian rock in the playlist. Weird...hmmmmm. :-)
I guess, whatever it takes.
Since when is the liberal community jumping on the bandwagon of trashing on video games, whatever their content? This post sounds conservative to me. I understand trying to call someone out on hypocrisy, but I didn't see in this post where this particular religious group had endorsed a candidate (like, ahem, HILLARY) who had explicitly been on the side of bashing violent video games. I know they're Christian, but have you all gotten to the point where you judge all Christians the same? Giving kids something fun to do in a safe environment just doesn't sound that offensive to me. In fact, by the outrage expressed in the title, I fully expected this to be about a video produced by the religious right where Jesus goes around mowing down Muslims and non-believers.
Good hell, it's just Halo. It's fantasy.
BlueMD @ 20:
almost spit my water out on that one....haha....
conservative protestants are realizing that their teachings don't make any freaking sense - except to those folks that require a great deal of external regulation in order to govern their lives..
Just think of Iraq folks......the biggest backers and supporters of Bush's war on Iraq and to invade Iran are in fact, Christian Evangelicals.....and as you have heard or not from day one Christian missionaries led by Franklin Graham have been inside Iraq in an attempt to "convert" Iraqis. Some of these Christian missionaries from America have been killed in the process. Not to mention those Christian soldiers from America who flush the Koran down the toilet and listen to Christian songs as they kill innocent Iraqis.....so actually, for Christians this is an "innocent game" compared to the evil they have brought on Iraqis. For Christians the wars in the Middle East are justified and exalted in their twisted view of life and the world.
Isn't it great that churches have to try and recrute young people by appealing to them in this way? Makes you wonder if they'll be trying tv ads with sexy women soon :)
Maybe they should have hookin' for Jesus for the older crowd. Get some call girls to get adult males into the church.
44 Sean Upinatem
The churchy lefemmes are against sex, not violence.
I like it when they're combined.
Dutch Delight @ 48:
Haven't you seen the Simpson's version of a Catholic church commercial set to ZZ Top's She Got Legs, complete with bumping and grinding women?
ysbaddaden @ 50:
Against sex? Tell that to Haggard, Robert's wife, Swaggart, and a shitload of Catholic Preists :-)
From the article The organization recently sent e-mail messages to 50,000 young people about how to share their faith using Halo 3. Among the tips: use the game’s themes as the basis for a discussion about good and evil. Remember kids, genocide/xenocide is wrong. Unless those aliens killed your dog. Then praise the Lord and pass the ammunition.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but don't we usually get bent out of shape when conservative groups shout about video games being violent and leading to sin and what-have-you?
Now, some groups are recognizing video games as simple fantasy (and on occasion, an excellent ice breaker) and holding events for kids... and we're getting all bent out of shape?
There's some interesting questions raised by the bribery element of the story, but it's hardly cause to shout about religious brainwashing.
I think it would be more up the church's ally to push fantasy sports.
Since when have Christians been against killing?
"When your faith is running low, grab a Bible Booster and reload."
Brianish @ 54:
It depends. I don't agree violence in games is related to much real behavior, but it doesn't mean I think violent games are brilliant entertainment. (Not most of them anyway.) They're usually the most boring games with little to do but point and click, and attempt to graft a story on to the ridiculous actions of the player that's laughable at best. So why would the Church think that sort of thing is suddenly good wholesome fun? They're that desperate to keep an audience I guess.
I tend to not want my younger children to play the violent video games because I don't care much for violence.
But, as an atheist, I'm often told my family values are out of whack.
Ricky Bones @ 52:
They're against anybody else having it.
Did anybody tell the Christian boys that the Satan's side gets to play with strippers and prostitutes? Kill 'em all, then back to your secret home base, in a men's public restroom. There you will receive coded instructions from the toe-tapping man...
It's pretty hippoctritical, but I was under the impression that only the idiot evangelicals seriously believed that video games cause violent behaviour, there are some games out nowadays with some pretty perversly violent content, but Halo is not one of them, essentially it's just a bunch of guys in brightly colored armor jumping around shooting each other and running each other over with big purple aircraft. The only way this game could cause violent behaviour would be if someone went to some pretty major extremes to make it cause violence.
Helloworld @ 58:
Agreeing, but I don't think the quality of the games is what most people are thinking about. And yeah, I think the bribery element should have churches thinking about better ways to make themselves relevant; not pissing everyone off. I mean, I doubt it will even work that well. High energy games like halo kick up adrenaline, and they probably end up with kids paying less attention to them than usual.
It was a perfect world, one where snakes could walk and talk.
Helloworld @ 58:
Your playing the wrong games then, some are fun as hell, and that coming from an Atheist.
Let's not confuse the issue of 'videogame violence' with a church that is willing to sell out its values in order to reach 'a new market.'
Remember that BattleCry and other 'teen outreach' programs talk of 'becoming stalkers for Christ.' It's clear they are being indoctrinated for the Rapture, or failing that, the 'Left Behind' scenario (most likely, as I don't see these bozos getting beamed up or out or sideways by anything, least of all God) ... wherein the forces of good shall band together to smite the wicked, since God Must Have Left Them Here For A Purpose.
But it's really nothing new. After all, America is being led by self-righteous prigs declaring that they don't practice torture, while they're busy paving a legal defense in secret.
I think the fact that there are more comments on this topic than the post about a veteran speaking up against the war is a sign of a problem in our culture.
I agree with PopaSmurf and wonder what you mean when you say that sadly reflects more on our society than religion.
I mean, when was a dividing line created between the two in any society? Clerics oversee religions. Societies define them. Clerics constantly reinvent the religions to meet contemporary ideals and passions while some dig their heels in and are labelled 'orthodox'.
Religion is a reflection of society, in most cases. One may attend one church because it promotes an active, compassionate community. Or one may choose the church that reinforces their hatred of others. The use of video games does not strike me as promoting violence. But it also does not advance the lessons Christ advanced. It's a gimmick. Love, mercy, compassion and the other elements of loving thy neighbor are the gift and video games are just tawdry wrapping paper designed to entertain, instead of to enlighten.
I'm not alarmed by this stuff. I simply don't trust vendors claiming to offer Truth if they resort to bait more apropos to carnies.
I think the comments on this post are more a reaction to its premise. The veteran pretty much covered what most of us would say.
Plus, any post related to religion is going to draw comments.
navyswan @ 67:
You think maybe there's a problem with our culture?
if they can do this, than it's only fair that joe camel gets to come back.
dude @ 71:
No way. Smoking is bad for you.
seevee @ 70:
Ughhh....yes.
First, I would like to say that I love going over to my friend's house when he hosts Halo parties. A house full of 15-20 adults having a good time this way isn't all that bad. Personally, put in the right context of "this is fake and in real life, guns kill people and they don't come back", kids can handle it too - I did.
Second, what the hell is up with churches constantly using gimicks to try to get people to come? They want the government to enforce their dogmas as well. Is their belief system so weak that it can't bring the people in on its own? Their God seems pretty weak to me.
I also remember hearing a couple weeks ago about military recruiters hosting booths at stores so people could play Halo 3 before the game was released at midnight. They would then, without asking the kids age, proceed to give them information on the military. They didn't even bother to check if the kids were of age before they played a game rated M for 17+ players.
Appealing to titillation is soooo old-school. The problem is that most modern parents are so consumed with making the jack to pay the bills that the kids are in free-fall. Parents, step the Fuck up! Your children are the future, will it be inbreeding versus compassion, or WHAT?
navyswan @ 73:
The foundation of Christian doctrine is blood sacrifice. The god of the Abrahamic religions has always demanded the spilling of blood for its appeasement.
Even the Institute on Religion and Democracy understands that this isn't Christian entertainment what's wrong with these Pro-Halo Churches?
ysbaddaden @ 76:
LOL
CD @ 78:
I thought all Christian churchs are "pro-halo".
Hmmm .... got to be Seventeen years old eh ... just the right age for joining the military.
Take away these peoples Tax privileges and see how fast they come under tow.
None of this is a real stretch for church leaders who supported the invasion and occupation of Iraq. Now they're OK with teenagers making virtual kills. That's better than the enormous number of real lives lost in Iraq.
Don't worry, those people might be "christians", but they are NOT Jesus Followers.
Bob-in-Northern-Thailand @ 81:
the IRS only goes after those who are against the boosh wars.
Max Power @ 82:
just remember that in all european exploration, bibles and guns were the primary tools. I'm still amazed at how they could 'discover' places where people were already living.
Meh . . . I think this is misdirected outrage. I've been playing video games since I was around 12. Some of them were violent, but even at the age of 12 I was smart enough to realize the characters in Mortal Kombat were just a set of data represented by pixels on the screen, and it made no difference to me if those characters produced blood sprites when hit or not. It never made me into a bloodthirsty murderer. In fact, I never even got into any fights in school, and I'm very anti-war, I was against the Iraq invasion from the beginning.
Wait a minute! Where does this leave Hillary and her video game crusade???
I, too, play a lot of violent video games and as of this year, at thirty, have yet to go all Hitman on anyone.
I'm amused, considering what the church had to say when I was a bit younger about music, violence and ssssssay-tan (any other ex-Southern Baptists here?), that churches are currently using video games to reach kids. I think that the church could have timeless values (values they don't need to tart up and try to sell as barely eighteen), given that they are consistent in them and actively aiding their community. You know, by helping the poor whose aid programs have been gutted by the shrub and the war.
But they will mess it up. Even if you believe that everyone who does not agree with you is going to hell, they still have to be allowed to make a choice. High pressure sales (especially in terms of religion) frequently have a discouraging effect, which is fine if it's a one time deal, but not so fine if you want them to keep coming back.
We've seen this before, it's the same old "if you can't beat 'em, join 'em" tactic. They bitch how something is corrupting our youth, but as soon as they figure out that there's a buck to be made, there’re all for it, just like for rock music, cable TV and women wearing pants.
Oh, and war. That’s a classic
So when are they going to start playing The Passion of the Christ: The Video Game?
What passes for "the Christian Church" today is more than sad, it's a warning right out of the Bible. The poor, blind sheeple don't even see it. Can anyone say false prophet?
Jesus sanctions killing, war and guns. Jesus sanctions hate and brutality. Jesus hates the poor and loves the rich. Faith is overrated, let's prove the existence of god by censoring science. And when all god's children say "Amen," they're really saying "Satan Wins!"
Matthew 7:15,16 - Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravenous wolves. You will know them by their fruits....
Acts 20:29-31 - For I know this, that after my departure savage wolves will come in among you, not sparing the flock. Also from among yourselves men will rise up, speaking perverse things, to draw away the disciples after themselves . Therefore watch, and remember that for three years I did not cease to warn everyone night and day with tears.
2 Peter 2:1 - But there were also false prophets among the people, even as there will be false teachers among you, who will secretly bring in destructive heresies, even denying the Lord who bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.
Colossians 2:8 - Beware lest anyone cheat you through philosophy and empty deceit, according to the tradition of men, according to the basic principles of the world, and not according to Christ.
ysbaddaden @ 91:
That's more of a role playing game like D&D.
This is a whole new take on “WWJD” that sadly reflects more on our society than religion
You need to read up on some Baptists in this country of this looks "new" to you.
Shouldn't that now say Who Would Jesus Whack?
Fanon @ 92:
It'd be a really bad RPG, though.
Player: "What do you mean I get crucified! I'm a level 11 Messiah!"
GM: "It's part of the plot!"
Player: "Screw that! I use Magic Missile on Pontius Pilate!"
Nick @ 95:
And PP would say, "Is that a rocket in your pocket, or are you just glad to see me?
It's not religion, it's ideology.
So now we can count on the Christians to corrupt our youth. Those games have an M rating for a reason. I guess it's ok to go beyond reason in order to recruit. Pathetic.
seevee @ 80:
:lol:
I remember people from both sides getting bent outta shape when our church brought in new technology the keep us kids entertained; it was the Beta-max! The righteous side suggested it would distract us from our prayer-time, while the secular folks called it a cheap tactic to keep us in church. The truth, as per usual, fell somewhere in the middle. As kids, we saw it as a great way to watch Tron for free, while eating popcorn (along with that terrible orange-drink) while flirting with girls our age. It also gave us something to do on the boring nights in our little town, and kept us out of trouble.
Now I agree that perhaps there are better things for kids to do than play video games, and frankly they probably play too much already without their church adding more game time to their lives. But video games do NOT mold children's minds, no more than Tron made me want to kill other abducted hackers in gladiatorial games. Nor did these church-held events keep me in the Catholic fold.
This is simply a popular game with cartoon-ish violence, and there is no way on Earth these kids are picking up any subtle messages us adults project into the game.
OUR ANGER FOULED
Let us take steps to confront our butchered age;
Cross the plains of reason, peering over the chasm.
Do not now upon time’s ripeness wait. It is here;
Black and bleeding, pulsing malevolence most foul,
Most ready… Take heed! Take heed! It is near!
Do you not sense its lunging forth of breathing
Like some blood-worn madman stalking gloom?
Bringing hair to mount in mockery our withered will,
Kicking our heels apace in pursuit of indifference,
Chiding our conscience, spurring us toward hell?
How can we learn of journeys taken upon this world
If we’re wholly numb inside our vacuous ideals?
How can we be so empty of splendor, we sever this;
Our very thoughts to spite the deadness, rotting flesh?
It is here! Our fetid love! Our anger-fouled civilization!
It is here! Goddamnit! It is here!
Holding our linens bleached of blood’s residue
We don the slippery and soiled scabbard of our end…
Copyright © 2006 mrp
johnnyRocketpants ,
This is simply a popular game with cartoon-ish violence, and there is no way on Earth these kids are picking up any subtle messages us adults project into the game.
Really? Do you honestly believe that? It may not be the game itself that they are getting the message of "Thou shall Kill" and if that is inded the case then it is the leaders of that church and that my friend is so much more influential than just the game. I will have to disagree with you about "no way on earth", I mean for heaven's sake...
Anyone who thinks Christianity is not steeped in violence has never read the Bible. Crusades, anyone?
The Christian god clearly states that he is full of wrath, vengefulness, spite, enmity, anger, jealousy and so many petty emotions you'd think he was a spoiled school girl rather than the omnipotent creator of the universe.
There are examples in the Old and New testaments of the violence they preach.
Even Jesus turned over tables at the temple in his rage and urged his followers to "sell their cloak and buy a sword".
People are drawn to that which reflects themselves. No surprise there.
Give me a break. Halo 3 is the most popular game out right now, it sold over two million units in a week. The Church is taking advantage of this because they know kids will want to come and try it out. It's a method of garnering interest. It also gets people together to do something competitive in a group setting and that's not necessarily horrible. Perhaps they'd be better off in most peoples' eyes with Wii Sports or something, but the key demographic here (largely teenagers) simply won't care.
I'm not saying it's not questionable or outright weird. It is an odd choice. I do not, however, think that a church having kids come and play a game of Halo is telling them that somehow "thou shalt not kill" is irrelevant. It is really just incredibly specious reasoning.
thepoetryman @ 102:
If I didn't honestly believe it, I wouldn't have posted it. And you seem to be arguing my point for me, in that there are many more things to worry about in terms of the church's influence over kids,... this video game is simply not one of them. Anyone who's followed the tactics of the 'video games are evil' crew know how dishonest they are (see Jack Thompson).
If video games truly affected kids behavior, wouldn't they all be murders and car-jackers by now?
Sean Upinatem @ 45:
This is fairly pathetic. The videogame is not the issue. The context under which it's being used is. If you're going to troll you have to pretend to be a little smarter than that. Because even I don't believe that a troll is this stupid to not understand the context of this article.
As I used to say on /., the only difference between a troll and an idiot is that the troll is pretending, and the rest of us, we can't tell.
slippytoad @ 106:
What's pathetic is how quickly some of us whip out the troll card when they disagree with a poster. The fact is, Sean Upinatem @ 45 makes a good point. Hillary, as well as Tipper Gore, have continued to push for censorship for decades. It has not gone completely unnoticed by every single progressive out there, as it apparently has for you. And you are pulling your 'context' out of thin air.
Oh for the love of... Seconding all above who think this OMG VIOLENT GAMES IN CHURCH?!?! is a completely bogus line of criticism.
For one thing, violent video games don't cause violence - most studies show zero correlation, and the best evidence in favor of the proposition boils down to the observation that kids get keyed up for an hour or two after playing. Big deal, I remember getting pretty wild after watching Indiana Jones or even playing a spirited game of tag when I was 12, it hasn't done me any lasting harm. Heck, I've been playing video games (violent and otherwise) damned near every day since the Atari 2600 was the very pinnacle of awesome, I intend to play one or two tonight, and I'm no more aggressive than any other citizen you're likely to encounter. Probably a lot less so.
For another, there's nothing in Halo 3, gore-wise, that comes close to competing with Judges, Exodus, or Revelation, so accusations of hypocrisy are really off the mark. A close read of the Bible makes it pretty clear that the promised Peace on Earth comes after the unbelievers have been gotten rid of, one way or another - the message of the New Testament taken as a whole is not pacifism, it's delayed vengeance. For my money it's the modern pacifist Christians and ecumenicalists that have forgotten (or are valiantly trying to paper over) the original message.
The one line I've seen on this that I did like, and thought was valid, is courtesy of PZ Myers' Pharyngula - that this is more a sign of how far religion has fallen. Once upon a time, Christianity inspired cantatas, cathedrals, and other beautiful works of art. Nowadays it's crappy rap-metal, big-box suburban eyesores and a LAN party for the kids. At least they're providing some kind of service for kids whose parents can't afford an Xbox 360, I guess. I just hope nobody's leaving the priests unchaperoned.
K. Signal Eingang @ 108:
Plus a service for the parents,... free babysitting!
A troll? what, because I disagreed with Hillary on an issue? Good hell I find that offensive.
I don't post much on here, but I read this damn site every day. I love it. I'm not pretending to be anything, let alone smart.
I don't believe the video game is the issue either. That's just my point. A church running a program to give youth something to do in a safe environment, even if it is a fantasy-violent video game, is far from some terrorist training camp. There are plenty of people on this thread who, along with me, have found no problem with a church doing this. I don't belong to a church that does this. I've never heard of it before today. I just don't think it's a big deal. Of all the shit the religious right has done to make me pissed, this is just not one of them. If that makes me a troll to you, then I am a troll.
Thank you good sir.
I take much offense at anyone assuming I'm some undercover neocon just because I don't agree with an opinion. Click on my link, which is my punk band's website. Read what I've written there, and decide if I'm some troll, jackass.
johnnyRocketpants @ 107:
Oh, c'mon, Nicole. It's just a Halo tournament! Secular groups have them all the time, and they're not accused of condoning murder. You're making a mountain out of a molehill.
WWJP
What Would Jesus Pack. Hey, it's called, "peace through superior firepower".
It's stretching to make this hypocrisy, unless you paint all religions with the same brush. It's true some church groups have a problem with the line between fantasy and reality (but some conservatives and liberals do as well, Tipper Gore anybody?), but obviously you can't criticize all churches—some C&L readers actually go.
However, if you look at it from a military recruitment angle, trying to influence kids to join a cause using a game with a monk chorus for a soundtrack, it's downright wrong.
Common people, don't be reactionary on this. Halo is a video game and I strongly question the link between video game violence and real-world violence. If you think that this is the first step on a slippery slope to Christian jihadists, you're completely paranoid.
This is just more anti-Christian sensationalism from Nicole. I can't believe she still has posting privileges here. Halo tournaments are evil? Really? You must seriously have a bone to pick with Christians if you are willing to take your extremism this far. I even remember one time our youth group went paint-balling and guess what, nobody who went on that trip has thus far killed anyone.
To be honest, I'm more than a little tired of the whole WWJD milieu.
The more pressing question is NOT "What Would Jesus Do?",
... but "What Would Scooby Doo!"
Being a Protestant minister, I believe that violence has no place in the church I was called to serve.
Having preached against torture and the Iraq war, there are some in my church who believe otherwise. I'd rather take the hit for not attracting kids because I refused using this kind of carrot. I'll also willingly take more hits from the people who don't want me preaching against pre-emptive war and "alternative interrogation techniques", aka torture.
Who knows, maybe the fabled rapture is more about God taking up the few that really gave a damn and stood up against violence and refused to promote violence. Hmmm, what a concept....the Prince of Peace!
Wonder if I can market that?!
"This is a whole new take on “WWJD” that sadly reflects more on our society than religion. "
Or more to the point, the religion that exists in our society.
Video games are not violent. They are not violence they are not in fact the act of killing.
I am saddened my the ignorance that I am reading here at crooks and liars and even greater so knowing that my reply will be read by next to no one. History has spotlighted many games were one in fact actually does kill an animal or a human for sport. To look down on the churches for playing video games with young adults only shows your own ignorance of reality. No one goes out and sleeps with prostitutes because of the hot coffee mod. No one goes out and kills people with guns unless they in fact already own or have access to a gun. If anyone here can not see that this is harmless fun. Then they need to get a grip. Because these are nerds sitting in living rooms. Were the actual threat comes from kids with guns stealing your valued possessions wile your at work, you know the kids with guns and not controllers in their hands?
I heard no one complaining about the old Quake3 servers for the Dreamcast, What servers am I talking about? The Christ service that only ran one map “Church”, whats my point here? Halo3 is making a lot of money and their for those who are interested in cashing in on this (lawyers, reports fishing for some main stream fodder that you gladly consume.) Will hook on to this and try and sell add space on it. Sad really. That your focusing on a video game when the current state of the entire Christian religion is based on a lie and no one in charge can keep their hands off of small boys…. Were is your moral center, why are you so focused on this?
PS: You are aware that we’re fighting a never ending war against people who can do little else then die by the thousands for no reason, aren’t you?
Jesus, for Gods sake pay attention to whats really important people. Anyways I’m going to go see if my Son wants to play Some F.E.A.R combat.
You can find the free download links here: http://clan427.joolo.com/ you know for those terrible games that corrupt the souls of those poor innocent children.
PSS: this article sucks big juicy orbs.
djtyg @ 112:
I know, exactly. It's little different than Bingo night or a Church having a bunch of people over to play Monopoly or something.
Halo is a game. Nothing more. Millions of people play it every day without being turned into conditioned, amoral, desensitized killers. Why? Because it is a game.
It's a safe, fun activity that's guaranteed to be attractive to many young people. Other than the distasteful evangelical organizations behind it, there doesn't seem to be much of a problem here. Heck, it sounds like a good idea. If my Catholic school had us play a few rounds of Doom II deathmatch instead of the dull "group togetherness activities" they ran, I might still be Catholic.
This whole, "Free speech is great, except for those video games!" thing really bugs me. If we on the left want to attract the youth vote, we cannot bother with scare-mongering nonsense about "murder simulators."
You are now mud....
http://forums.gametrailers.com/showthread.php?p=5020832#post502083
stop harshing on the kids, or we'll all become republicans!!!! are you scared yet???/
Whats going on here? are you refusing to post my comments? is this site really that cowardly?
No. You were stuck in moderation, and no one was checking it. Quit with the paranoia. It's very unattractive-Sitemonitor]
Wow, I get it now, you didn't like what I had to say and now you've chosen to block me from commenting? is that it? How childish.
[No. Your conclusion is childish-Sitemonitor]
Johnny2Bad @ 36:
Nicole said>>"This is a whole new take on “WWJD” that sadly reflects more on our society than religion."
Sorry ma'am and you other misinformed commenters, but you need to reread the game's manual. No not Halo,the other game, Christianity. Killing aplenty in the good E manual, and it was manual labor at that. Stone 'em for cursing God, stone 'em for their sexuality,for working on the Sabbath, and for the fairer among them, stone them if the hymen, the sacred veil to that other holy of holies had suffered a prenuptual parting.
Logic, my friends, calls for the realization that if not the smallest part of the law is invalid, we should stack our rocks, circle round, and commence to lay the law one upon another.
WWJD? Read revelations. He's gonna kill em all and let God sort em out, with exceptions for, of course, the.......(surprise) Christians.
They say no anti smoker holds a candle to an ex smoker.
The same for ex-Fundamentalists.
Wow, you guys have been running some weak stuff here recently.
I play Battlefield 2. There are many servers labeled "Christian Server"
While you are running around killing people in the game, proverbs scroll in green at the top.
While you are running around killing people in the game, if you happen to type to someone and use a swear...
you get booted from the server.
Thou shalt not swear at people while thoust killith them....?
It's so amazingly.... ... scary.
proverbs flashing at the top....
while hunting virtual humans.
Nick @ 120:
Exactly. If they were playing the Left Behind game, I'd be worried. That game actually condones killing in the name of Jesus.
But this is just Halo 3. It's a game that millions of kids play. The church is just using it as a social activity. I don't see anything wrong with it.
Besides, I love playing Halo :).
"Halo is a game. Nothing more."
When are they going to switch over to Left Behind 'Eternal Forces' ?
[[(from game website-)
When we started Left Behind Games 5 years ago, we had a dream. It was a noble dream, to build the most successful “inspirational and family” video game publishing company in the world. Everyone knows that the entertainment industry, especially video game publishers, create dark content…and the idea to create games with positive morals and values is an aspiration almost everyone can get behind.]]
It is a game where the community has decided it is the rapture and they have to convert everyone to Christianity or kill them, while seizing all the assets of every town and city the churches belong to. you actually can walk into a bank and claim it in the name of Christianity, and than its your church's money. if anyone protests, you kill them.
"the idea to create games with positive morals and values is an aspiration almost everyone can get behind."
the demo is online if you wanna interesting trip. its much worse than i allude to.
"Play multiplayer games with the Tribulation Forces or the AntiChrist's Global Community Peacekeepers with up to eight players via LAN or over the Internet!"
Very trippy. www.leftbehindgames.com
Charlie @ 25:
The other thing Americans who've never traveled outside the US don't understand is just how violent Americans who don't travel are. They just can't fathom the idea that 90% of the rest of the world is full of peaceful people. The day to day level of violence in the US is mind numbing. Don't buy into the idea that spending hours of senseless killing doesn't effect people in a really adverse way.
I remember Ronald Reagan said that video games were training the next generation of fighter pilots. He actually got something right!
dmhlt @ 117:
Shouldn't that read, "Who Would Scobby Doo?"
I applaud their choice of video games. Halo is great fun.
But I think people should be more worried about their practice of planting religious zealots in the Air Force academy and in the other armed services. Those aren't video games they're playing aboard those F-16s.
Erik @ 18:
I agree. This is the dumbest article I have ever seen from C&L... and there have been plenty. C&L is fox news for the left. I want the truth not some biased wing nut side. C&L, you're dead to me.
JustSickOfIt @ 126:
Buh? Wha?
Huh?
Man, and here I was thinking the Left was the more rational side of the US. And yes, I have lived outside of the United States and no, I do not think that the US isn't chock-full of peaceful people. It might be somewhat more violent than other industrialized countries, but it was that way before video games. And, of course, those same countries play video games as well. So logically, the cause is probably something else. Like, I dunno, social and economic inequity or something along those lines.
I have, after all, spent a significant fraction of my life senselessly killing demons, aliens, poorly-rendered human beings, mutants, robots and monsters. I can't say I was adversely affected except with regard to my attention span and occasionally my grade point average.
Listen, better they frag their little brain out, then see .02 seconds of Janet Jacksons Boobie!
Or read a Harry Potter novel!
Yup, those Evangelicals, they sure have their moral priorities straight!
[...] This article from Crooks and Liars should make someone who tries to be a disciple of that man from Nazareth, Jesus, be amazed, saddened and terribly disheartened. It should. It even might if it weren’t for the fact that the daily diet of religious news from the Christian right in the USA has long ago rendered my brain in a state of permanent disbelief. How can one believe that churches that back war and capital punishment (state sponsored first degree, premeditated murder) perfectly acceptable actually have anything to do with Jesus of Nazareth and his life and teachings? Nothing that people who call themselves Christians do surprises me any more. [...]
I think this was a good catch by C&L. Back in the 80s the church wouldn't have "rock bands", video games and other secular things going on within it's community or by it's members. But in the 90s, no doubt with the coincidence of declines in membership, the church has seemed to open up to these ideas as long as they are spun with Jesus in mind. I think "church" as we know it in the U.S. is dying, slowly though over decades. The church is desperate to become relative and maintain that hold over people. People today, youth especially, are less inclined to vote with god in mind than the fact that they are more educated and independent thinking, though still brainwashed by the church.
This is recruiting souls, plain and simple. It's sad too. Christianity's fundamentals do not appeal to people enough to want them to be better people through the religion so it's had to alter it's strict dogma to court members.
I also think that some in the church support our overseas actions and can't wait for the day when the great apocalypse happens and the great war between good and evil happens. The bible is full of war.
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