John McCain says Gen. Sanchez was afraid to be fired
John McCain told Bob Schieffer that he feels retired Lt. Gen. Sanchez might have felt he would have met the same fate as Gen. Shinseki if he gave an honest opinion about the war in Iraq which is another indictment on the Bush loyalty doctrine. Sanchez came out hard against the war planning and is now being criticized by the right wingers...
Sen. McCAIN: And one of the reasons, in all due respect, my friend, is because General Shinseki gave his opinion and got fired.
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Transcript via Face the Nation (pdf)
SCHIEFFER: Senator, we don't want generals making policy. That's for the civilian leadership. But should they resign? Should they be willing to speak out when they don't agree with the policies? What should they do?
Sen. McCAIN: At the confirmation hearing of all senior--of these senior officers, the questions asked at the Armed Services Committee, `Will you give this committee your honest and candid opinion if there--and personal opinion if directly asked?' They always say yes, they will. That's number one. Number two is, if you think the country is going in the wrong direction, and it's going to cause the needless loss of American--young Americans' lives, then of course you should stand up and you should leave your position.
And I know that's a very tough decision for people to make. But first of all, I would start by giving my candid and honest and personal opinion when asked by Congress because--during their confirmation hearings, which means they are appointed to the rank that they are nominated for, then they should give that opinion at that time. Unfortunately, that doesn't happen very often.
SCHIEFFER: Right.
Sen. McCAIN: And one of the reasons, in all due respect, my friend, is because General Shinseki gave his opinion and got fired.
McCain's definitely right that the Bush administration doesn't like truth tellers, and almost always punishes them. Still, Spencer Ackeman has an interesting piece on Sanchez that questions many of his assertions:
Contrary to its billing, this was no mere attack on the administration. Sanchez's speech is perfectly positioned to accelerate the stabbed-in-the-back myth of explaining the war now emerging on the right. That corrosive idea, revived most recently by revisionist Vietnam historian Mark Moyar, holds that sybaritic and feckless civilians recklessly squander the hard-won gains of the military.
Can someone justify retire Lt. Gen. Ricardo Sanchez for me? Please. At least help me understand why he's suddenly an object of sympathy. I honestly don't get it. How does one wade through Abu Ghraib and come out clean? I read his speech to journalists that included a few lines on Iraq...
THE ADMINISTRATION, CONGRESS AND THE ENTIRE INTERAGENCY, ESPECIALLY THE DEPARTMENT OF STATE, MUST SHOULDER THE RESPONSIBILITY FOR THIS CATASTROPHIC FAILURE AND THE AMERICAN PEOPLE MUST HOLD THEM ACCOUNTABLE.
THERE HAS BEEN A GLARING, UNFORTUNATE, DISPLAY OF INCOMPETENT STRATEGIC LEADERSHIP WITHIN OUR NATIONAL LEADERS. AS A JAPANESE PROVERB SAYS, "ACTION WITHOUT VISION IS A NIGHTMARE." THERE IS NO QUESTION THAT AMERICA IS LIVING A NIGHTMARE WITH NO END IN SIGHT.
In my mind, Sanchez deserves prison time for his role in the ghost detainee policies and Abu Ghraib, plus a decade of public shunning once he's out. No body knows better than me that I can be full of shit...so if anyone can 'splain. I'd be grateful. Why should his voice carry any weight when he's so mired in indecency, badness, and sucking?
If no one has said 'Dirty Sanchez' on this thread yet, let ME be the frist:
Dirty Sanchez
Batocchio you're psychic. Brilliant article, steeped in facts. Thanks.
I wonder if McCain recognizes the implications of his statement that Sanchez did not speak his mind at the time it might have made a difference, out of fear of extreme professional retribution. THAT is the real crime here, that the b/c team created that sort of scenario between it and our top military minds, and NOT that some of the generals, inc Sanchez, did not tell the truth IN PUBLIC about how they felt about the whole running of the Iraq invasion and occupation.
What should they do? Resign immediately, put in their retirement papers and when the retirement becomes effective immediately call a national press conference to expalin the reasons for resigning/retiring. The only honorable thing to do is not allow yourself to be used as a tool in a thing you believe to be wrong.
Fired or fired upon?
This confirms what I suspected. Career officers in the military at some point cease to be military, and become political appointees.
leave it to schieffer. even after he himself rails against the war and other boosh fuKKKups, bob has to be told by insane mccain that sanchez was trying to do his best without getting fired. sanchez was still blamed for abu ghraib though, so he bears some responsibility for the problem.
this just goes to show the piece of schitt that is petraeus, who went from one star to four by liKKKing the JacKKKboots of the NeoCon King.
so let me get this right, the generals in iraq fear getting fired for speaking up, when they retire many of them have given a bad (and similar) assessment of the administration and the situation. yet when the speak up after retiring guys like mc cain say that their assessment is not an accurate picture of the current situation and that things are progressing nicely and you can walk freely in the markets. there is a huge disconnect from reality here. here's the "straight talk", the admin and mc cain know this is a cluster-F but they have placed pride and political carreers above doing what is known by generals and the public to be what is right and call this what it is and get the troops home now. these repubes cant even get out of the way of their own twisted logic. and this statement by mc cain is proof of this. un-f-ing-believable.
Before the famous Hug with Bush McCain knew how to tell the truth too. But like Sanchez, McCain did as he was told with the promise that the Party would make him President. McCain has been lying every since then and still lying today. McCain knows what torture is but he caved in to Bush/Cheney bill for torture. All the GOP has to do is say the word and McCain becomes putty in their hand. McCain is part of the inter circle and his actions have shown it. McCain would say anything to get a buck and a vote.
Is there a rule that if a general feels the operation is going badly he can't say what he thinks might be the right thing to do to fix it.
Are they in a position to either agree with the civilian leadership 100% or lose their job? I'm asking these things because I just don't know.
If he was deeply involved in abu ghraib why is he bringing attention to himself now? Seems he would want to stay out of the spotlight when it comes to anything about this war.
As to what McCain said, history in this administration seems to prove him right.
Batocchio @ 1:
Batocchio ,
Dead on, man. If you want to read a book that cuts through all the revisionist BS about Vietnam, and squarely names all the players for what they were, check out Dereliction of Duty: Johnson, McNamara, the Joint Chiefs of Staff, and the Lies That Led to Vietnam: by HR Mcmaster. It's the vietnam war up to the beginning of the Nixon regime. History repeats itself in Iraq for pretty much the same foolish reasons.
No sympathy for sanchez from me. After WII, former Nazi's always used the excuse,"I was only following orders."
Dammit! Sanchez was GIVING the orders. And he was doing what cheney (via bush) wanted him to do. Can he spell W A R C R I M I N A L ?
mccain you better watch out that bus is heading for you again.
Not surprising he is blasted, look at the before and after the Free Republic did on Abizaid:
Before - http://freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1739270/posts and http://freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1756194/posts (post 15 and 21 are telling)
After - http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1904266/posts and http://freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1898075/posts
Then you might just get the distinction of being called a "phony soldier" and "unAmerican" Hey, I thought if you slammed a soldier who had the balls to fight in the Iraq War, you were a traitor!
Sanchez, like 99.9999999% of lieutenant generals, wanted that fourth star so he went along to get along -- now he's trying to rehabilitate himself.
When will we see an active duty general announce, "This is wrong and I will not be a part of it. I quit!" Let's not hold our breath. Career always trumps honor.
Did a reich-winger just speak the truth? Someone note the time and date.
I guess those magnetic yellow ribbon bumper stickers should read "Support the Troops...when they Support Bush"
Thank GOD we finally have generals like Patreaus to give us the unvarnished truth. No way HE'S lying to protect his job. Not like all the other generals who came before him.
The phony generals.
SCHIEFFER: "Senator, we don’t want generals making policy. That’s for the civilian leadership. But should they resign? Should they be willing to speak out when they don’t agree with the policies? What should they do?"
Hell. If Preznit Sack-of-Shit, cheered on by other sacks-of-shit, like the media, hadn't started this abomination in the first place, you dumb arsed pundits would not have to rassle with brain teasers like this.
John McCain sezzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz.
seriously how can anyone see the patreaus thing as anything more than a dog and pony show? The poor guy swore an oath to serve at the pleasure of the president and serve the office no matter how stupid the commander.
Rufus @ 17:
Sorry, buddy but that is 99.999999999% crap. Most of these brave men and women are honorable. They're working in tough circumstances, away from their families, for little pay or recognition. They are not all hacks. And shame on you for suggesting otherwise.
"Afraid to be fired?"
"Afraid?"
Does this mean that Sean Hannity can no longer predicate the word "troops" with the word "brave?"
Mccain raided Larry Kudlow's necktie collection.
Sanchez is getting hit by the left as well as the right. There are many valid points about his statments in both comments and coverage but speaking out in a negative fashion about the War by any retired general who served in Iraq can't be all bad. Whatever good his statements might have served has been undercut by all sides - not so good.
Dr. Matt @ 18:
Yeah , because the frequency of that occurring is equivalent to a sighting of Haley's Comet
ysbaddaden @ 8:
Maybe the "military" should think of becoming "human".
milkman @ 25:
Fair point. But let's not confuse the generals with the troops. The generals aren't the ones dying.
That's why we know Patraeus is betraying us. All the other generals knew then and know now the invasion of Iraq was wrong and the current occupation is a disaster. On one hand, I don't blame them for protecting their pensions. On the other hand, I expect honor from generals. Allowing Iraq to happen was dishonorable. They used Murtha to speak on their behalf, and he got smeared. I imagine Patraeus's soul is in a little box in a wall safe in Kennebunkport. Sanchez is too late. We don't need him anymore.
Oh. The military "leadership" was under fire.
I can't stand listening to his slow-talking, monotone voice. Is he on medication or has he already succumbed to Alzheimers?
McCain is so desperate to please every view.. its pathetic. Totally pathetic. I am sure he can not wipe his ass without consulting twenty people on beforehand.
Johnny2Bad @ 24:
I don't believe he said ALL, he said, Lt. Generals. I don't see many of them as the under class of the military, nor do they make teh same acrifices. I have served directly for a few two stars temporarily and they are pretty far removed from the truly wretched times actually had by the troops in the field, who really are struggling and making the biggest sacrifices.
In my twisted wet dream, I watch as the military honor of these brave men trumps Presidential bullshittiness and they stage a military Coup d'Etat. Chasing down all the miscreants like Cheney, Perle, Wolfowitz, Rumsfeld, Rice, Kristol et.al. and bring them to the harshest justice they deserve. A'la French Revolution.
And then they hold a new election where everybody - absolutely everybody in the country - who wants to vote, gets an unimpeded chance to vote, casts their ballot and then and every single ballot is accurately counted. I hold up MY PURPLE FINGER!
And the new President [_____________] fill in the blank...is inaugurated. And then all the rest of the war profiteering criminals are hunted down and dealt with appropriately.
And then I woke up in a fetid sweat.
SCHIEFFER: Senator, we don’t want generals making policy. That’s for the civilian leadership. But should they resign? Should they be willing to speak out when they don’t agree with the policies? What should they do?
McCain thinks they should just cower in the corner like the RePubs do. Just be afraid and keep your mouth shut.
It's sad when someone like john mccain, who I think is a decent human being, becomes so irrelevant.
Linda @ 5:
Exactly!! Thanks for saying it out loud!
what an asshole, I guess when you get old enough you just become a raving idiot. I would love nothing more then to have an active general speak out against the Bush Crime Family and their War Machine, but really, that will NEVER happen, no matter how bad it gets, our military is not ready for that kind of indecency, and god help us when they are. I love how they can't dispute the facts of what General Sanchez said they can only attack him because he said it now and not then, of course if he said it then he would have been slammed for that too, so he couldn't have won. But it shows you who the republicans really are and how well they support our military.
Ricky Bones @ 35:
Good points but I'd assume at least some two stars have served in combat at a lower grade...And ok, he didn't say "all" Lt. Generals. He is saying only .0000000001% are the least bit honorable. That's a f'd up view.
Look, I'm a progressive from a long line of Marines and I'm sick of seeing so much military bashing go by unchallenged here. Its Cheney's war afdter all. Come on, that post begged to be slammed.
(BTW, thank you for your service)
Is McCrazy supposed to actually have any credibility? I don't get it.
McCain is out of his mind.
Nice compliment for Sakozy though - McCain admires his "leadership on this role".
SCHIEFFER: Senator, we don’t want generals making policy. That’s for the civilian leadership.
Ok. I guess I'm a dumbass so someone is going to have to explain this to me. Who knows more about running a war, the generals actually there or the chickenhawk draft dodger civilian in the W.H? Why does he get to make decisions about something he knows nothing about? Many generals spoke out within the first few months of the occupation, mostly about Bremers fuckups, and were ignored by this civilian leadership.
ysbaddaden @ 8:
It's when they make full colonel and they know they're going to get their bump if they just live long enough.
Insane McCain is a guilty thug for buying into the lies and failed policies of the crime family. Nothing will ever change the fact that the GOP bent over and grabbed their ankles and allowed these crooks to damage our constitution and to go to war for the profits fo the military industrial complex. The GOP is over.
shoo mccain
It is not a general's job to be afraid to be fired. His job is to be terrified of getting his men killed stupidly. His job is to avoid being a fool for anybody, ESPECIALLY a politician. On all most important jobs of being a general, Sanchez failed miserably. Give him his fucking Medal of Freedom and get his ass off the public stage.
Paul @ 13: Sorry, checking in much later, just wanted to say thanks for the book rec!
My god, McCain - I feel like your mother - that tie has GOT to go!
*
Johnny2Bad @ 24:
I think the writer limited his comments to the active duty "General" ranks. To which I somewhat agree with his assessment. I didn't take his remarks as a dump on the lower ranks, who possess no decision making power.
old warmongers never die never die ,old warmongers never die they just fade away!
If you don't think most generals are careerists, you haven't been around many generals. And, by the way, they are a big bell curve: Some are superb, most are average, and some are so bad you can't figure out how they made it past first lieutenant. How do I know? Been there, done that.
Geee, John,
You think there aren't troops in Iraq that don't wan't to be court martialed for refusing to go?
Way to support the troops !!
Did McCain vote for that condemnation of the moveon AD ? Hmmmmm>
Regardless of one's political party (and I am a Democrat) it must be said that John McCain earned his country's respect. So it is with some pain I observe that these days he seems determined to dis-honor himself.
As regards the above discussion of the nature of Generals:
The American military has been an institution worthy of honor for more than 200 years - despite the often glaring lapses of its commanding officers - ALL of whom are politicians, and ALL of whom are careerists. None of them would ever have worn their stars if they hadn't been those things, and it's important to remember that those things aren't necessarily bad.
What is bad behavior in the General class is craven abandonment of one's honor and one's men - especially when it is only for ambition's sake. That is what we've seen among more than a few generals in the Bush/Cheney Pentagon. It is those lick-spittles who disgust me. I wish that Sanchez had had the guts to resign and speak up earlier - had he done so, he'd be a more credible witness now. It's a hard thing to do, but when your men are dying how can you do anything less?
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