Open Thread
By bluegal Saturday Oct 20, 2007 10:30pm
From Group News Blog, (which incidentally is a terrific blog started by several of the late, great Steve Gilliard's regular commenters. The members of GNB kept Steve's blog going while he was hospitalized, and when he passed, they started their own, quote, "because if we didn't, Steve would totally kick our asses.")
We don't need any more heroes, no more white knights (pardon the phrase.) We need to change the party and we need to change the media. We need to run for party offices. Sunlight drives these people crazy. It galls them no end that they have to listen to all the Dirty F**king Hippies who post at Kos, and Atrios, and Firedoglake.
I really am much more concerned with the House seats and the Senate seats next year. The White House is just one job and a job that we seriously need to set limits on.
Open thread below, but also visit the GOP/FOX Debate Open Thread for that topic. Happy Sunday.
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Missing you Steve.
for karma, when the democrats take office in 2009, the new president should use all
the powers now ascribed and stolen by bush to use against him, cheney and the gop.
let's see how they like eating their own crap. a few rendition flights should be scheduled to germany for all their crimes against HUMANITY.
Since it is a well known fact now that the republicans don't think ahead, I often wonder when it will hit their peabrains that the next Dem President can spy on them?
Unrelated. I am a white irish catholic viet nam vet. Recently I've watched WW11 and a WW11 about Mexican vets. I am crying, what happened to this country? We cannot acknowledge the contributions of our fellow man. We will never achieve greatness untill black, white, brown, yellow, pink and blue are credited with the acheivments of a country that has a long way to go.
dadams @ 2:
Do you actually think this would ever happen?
We can start with crispus attucks and go from there.
gutemacht @ 5:
no, but then what's happening to us because of this administration was never
dreamed of either. we invade a country that was/is not a threat to us, our constitutional rights are violated by the president/vp and the pres/vp violate
many of our laws and international treaties. so, a dream, but a possibility.
Janet @ 3:
look at pelosi, reid, rahm and the DLC/DSCC/DCCC and tell me you think that's anywhere near possible.
Global warming is causing a drought in Georgia so bad, it's had to declare a state of emergency. Meanwhile, California experiences wildfires in late October.
dadams @ 7:
it was not just dreamed of, it was planned
BaScOmBe @ 10:
They've already got their intentions on Iran laid out as well: http://newamericancentury.org/iran-20050802.htm
Don't fear the terrorist. Fear those that invade a sovereign nation on lies.
http://www.opednews.com/articles/opedne_michael__071020_the_b_52_inciden...
I agree with BaScOmBe@10 regarding the planned destruction and take over of our country with the William “The Bloody” Kristol PNAC crowd (Cheney, Rumsfeld, etc.).
There is a sense of urgency now in the collective consciousness that something just isn't right. However, many want to strike out at the messengers because of the horrible messages that need to be addressed. As a 30+ year conspiracy investigator I can assure you it will take your breath away if you choose to open up to the reality of our existance...but you must, and now.
We are in the end result of hundreds of years of manipulation of the masses. However, there are answers and ways of beating these bastards. The very best thing we can do right now is to cut the head off...impeachment. If it takes weeks of huge public protests, not going to work or buying stuff to get our congress' attention, we need to suffer through it. A million dead fellow humans in Iraq demand it.
Impeachment will kill the NWO momentum before they pull off another "Pearl Harbor" event (PNAC words) to get control through martial law, we must act ASAP. They have our energy scattered with dozens of truely important agendas, but unless we impeach them and hold them responsible in a court of law for crimes against humanity, we will loose.
The public is addicted to the distractions they have provided from the #1 poison...your TV. Shut it off. Fuck the sports, soap operas, and other crap. We have the numbers. They only know about money and power. We need to take control and get our republic back. We need to show the world the American spirit may be asleep but it can fight back, just like the patriots in other oppressed countrys have.
That's my nickle.
WE R ALL HEROs at...
Create A New World 4 U & Me see...
http://www.RogerART.com
... One Global Community... build it they R already here !
http://www.OneGlobalCommunity.com
... Earth Ball Homes and Greenhouses all over OUR Earth... Oh ya
http://www.EarthBall.org
... Earth Citizen NEWS... Earth Citizens R All Reporters, here
http://www.EarthCitizenNEWS.com
... U 2 can ALSO run 4 P.o.P.E.
http://www.PresidentOfPlanetEarth.com
Peace, Love & Later, Roger@RogerART.com
.
The article is right on. Change is coming, perhaps not really soon but we are seeing a lot of new people in the process (including me.) People are realizing that sitting around and complaining about our choices is not good enough. What Dean started, Obama continues and perhaps before I die we will see real change.
Andrea (Galileo’s student): "Unhappy is the land that has no heroes."
Galileo: "No Andrea, unhappy is the land that needs heroes."
---Bertolt Brecht, Galileo
nonny mouse @ 16:
Very well said.
Hi Nonny. :)
xoites defends Constitution @ 17:
Hey xiotes,I'm here too. Read the link to the commentazt #12.
Here is the thing about heros: they may or may not be who you think they are. Heros become leaders. Leaders can lead you to the Promised Land or over a cliff. There are far more cliffs than promised lands.
When a movement occurs the police want to find the leader. If they find him and nuetralize him or her they feel they have accomplished the destruction of the movement. If they have the movement had too many followers.
We do not need a spokesman, we can speak for ourselves. We do not need a leader, we know the way.
As Dylan said, "If you meet the Bhudda on the road, kill him."
We don't need no stinking leaders. In fact we need at least one less.
lkjs
Condor @ 20:
I could not agree with you more.
Or less.
Anybody got an English/Condor Dictionary?
xoites defends Constitution @ 21:
I
Know
Jack
Shit
I went to see "Rendition" (the movie) tonight. It was great. They did a good job setting things in the proper political context of the Middle East and showed the complexity of the issues revolving around the "War on Terror" and all that Bush-speak type baloney. Highly recommended.
gimmie mo @ 22:
Oh, ok, i guess that would include me too. :)
When you remove all impossibilities, however improbable, what remains must be the truth. So keep looking for it my children!
gimmie mo @ 25:
Ok, the first impossibility to get tossed out the window is you being our parent.
actually, we need one hero right now
here:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=0Nnph3zkHNw
xoites defends Constitution @ 26:
I was addressing MY children, not you!
gimmie mo @ 28:
You can stay in the dark for all I care! :-)
gimmie mo @ 28:
Oh, i did not see them. They must be concerned about having to communicate with you on public threads. Maybe you could share a phone call or perhaps an email?
Hi, Xoites. Got called upstairs for supper, missed you by that much...
xoites defends Constitution @ 30:
Still drinkin I see.
nonny mouse @ 31:
Hi Nonny. :)
Speaking of heroes and Bertolt Brecht (for those of us who were... um... talking about the topic at hand...), this site is interesting as well:
http://www.heroism.org/about.html
The Heroism Project
In Search of Heroes: An American Journey
(It also mentions one of my favourite books, Joseph Campbell's 'Hero with a Thousand Faces).
gimmie mo @ 32:
Wow! You are good! What will be the winning Mega Bucks number on Wednesday? Don't waste your vision!
The Stranglers - No More Heroes
You heard it here first, folks: Red Sox will beat the rockies in 6 games, winning the World Series on October 20 at Fenway Park! :D
nonny mouse @ 34:
The Heroism Project will engage people across America in thinking and talking about the changing values that define our culture and create our heroes.
Before talking about changing values how about identifying them? Ancient Romans had their list of virtues. What's America's top 15?
A hero is just a person who adheres to those virtues (for the most part) while amazing others that they ain't dead yet.
We had a hero - JFK. They murdered him. Then Martin. Then Bobby.
Problem with populist heroes is that they are mortal and our enemies are vile and effective.
They can't kill us all though, and when a million people march on Washington, it gets their attention - big time.
Keep that in mind, because the day is very near when we all will have to make some hard choices.
thing fish - if you read the site, that's part of their questioning; identifying the 'hero with a thousand faces'. What would be America's top 15 values or virtues? Would be even be able to define them if we could list them, for example, the word 'freedom' is bandied about like America invented it, but I'll give you dollars to donuts that most Americans would find it rather difficult to define what 'freedom' is in our country anymore.
The longing for a 'hero' to 'rescue' us is very dangerous - it gave us a hollow strawman like Bush who posed for the cameras with codpieces on aircraft carriers and bullhorns on wreckage. My dead cat was more of a true hero than he ever was. But there's a longing for a 'hero' on the left to come save us from the villains of the right that is going to present us with a dilemma - everyone expected huge things from Pelosi, but the shine went out of her secret superhero decoder ring pretty damned fast.
I'm not looking for a hero to save the world single-handed; not in Pelosi, or Ron Paul, or Edwards, or even Al Gore. Heroes can stay in the comic books, where they belong. I'm looking for a goddamned leader, someone who takes point, knows how to be part of a team who has respect for his followers - rather than a despotic king handing down royal decrees to his cringing slaves - and gets us all moving again before we drown in the swamps.
I agree. Challenging DINO's in the primaries is job #1. The party must be deloused.
nonny - Read a bit of the site. I still found the "things are different now" view... wrong.
For example: Then came Vietnam, the Civil Rights movement and Watergate. Black and white truths gave way to gray areas of question and disillusionment.
As said one old comic book hero of mine "Twas ever thus!" If the site is earnest they'll need to dig a little deeper.
Heroes only exist in history and fiction. And in both cases are used to prop up a society's view of itself after the fact.
Guess what that says is you can't look for heroes; only be one.
"No More Heroes" is an upcoming game for Nintendo Wii, a very entertaining prouduct to be sure!
Cheney is always talking about "restoring the power of the presidency". What was taken away. The Executive is a thrid and equal branch of government, subject to checks and balances. It's like Nixon took power that didn't belong to him (the office), and Cheney thinks that is the rightful power which ought to be restored? I'm a bit young (la-- who knew ;) ) to have followed that 'live'. But what power is he talking about restoring, if not that???
It doesn't matter who is in the Senate or in the House now. The precedent has been set that the president can ignore the law with no repercussions. In failing to impeach Cheney and then Bush, the current Congress has rendered all future Congresses impotent.
Harry Reid and Nancy Pelosi, stand up and take a big bow. And those in the GOP I'm sure will enjoy Hillary Clinton with all the powers that Cheney and Bush have arrogated to the presidency. I know I won't.
As for the media--they are owned the same megacorporations that own George Bush, Dick Cheney, Hillary Clinton, and, in fact, most of the Congress. They are hardly going to say anything negative about their own lackeys.
UnEasyOne @ 39:
Every government since the beginning of time has been mortally afraid of a/the mob. That's why they want to keep you in the dark, placated and distracted with anything they can.
-
A very totalistic view of what it is all about, and how to fill the House and Senate to make sure-as-we-can that it is all about us, is spelled out in this recent 'heroic' speech.
The Song That Is Irresistible: How the State Leads People to Their Own Destruction -- by Robert Higgs (Posted on 10/16/2007)
So, like, we are the 'it' that is all about us.
Your neocon government at work: NASA is refusing to reveal the results of an air safety survey, and they are telling the contractors that did the survey to destroy the information so that it doesn't get out!!!!! http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20071022/ap_on_re_us/air_safety_secrets
It seems that flying is NOT as safe as the government wants you to believe and in fact it is so dangerous that they are hiding their own study so that the public "won't lose confidence and THE INDUSTRY WON'T SUFFER.
I'm sure that Malkin, O'Reilly and Limbaugh will regale us with why we don't need to know how unsafe it is to fly. I'm sure they never fly.
Jesus H tap dancing Christ. WTF
I just wanted to post my appreciation to those in the know who continue to maintain their integrity in spite of it all- which eventually led a like-minded me to this wonderful site and similar sites like Kos. The immeasurable hope that these sites offer to those of us who can cry out and listen at the time hearing the truth for what it is in its vast simplicity to outshine the puny lie of the opposing force while managing not to experience this from a "soap box"- has been a wonderful realization for me and I am grateful and doing my best to prove my gratitude by not buying into the seemingly inevitable depressing fear that eventually this and like sites like it will be infiltrated and corrupted finally losing the battle in the end.
This gives me hope because I heard you and you have heard me... and we are still here- this causes me to laugh at the realization of the massive scope of their self reinforcing delusions!
It must really suck when anyone of the opposition realizes they have crossed over the threshold of free will- that place where there is no turning back- then even a chance back glance reveals true regret at choosing to become an automaton of evil- This must suck so badly that it only inspires them to be pissed off and attack little insignificant people like me and my kind!
Thanks for reading my longest run-on-comment in gratitude ever! I will be quiet now and read. The reward is in knowing- at least for me.
I also wanted to point out a movie titled, "Martian Child" is about to be released:
http://www.apple.com/trailers/newline/martianchild/
This one may be worth watching. I will be getting the book soon!
I have spent a good part of my time this weekend reading and thinking about the Air Force report on the nuclear weapons mishandling and subsequent disciplinary actions.
The ball is in your court C&L. The Marsden article, the CLG coverage of both the incident and subsequent deadly events as well as an official report that needs airing out. How about sorting out the Crooks from the Liars.
chazaroo @ 4:
Shouldn't the green people be included? ;)
Can't sleep. Just got home from a friend's house in San Marcos, CA after being evacuated due to wildfires. There are seven fires burning in San Diego alone tonight. The firefighters are overwhelmed and they keep evacuationg to shelters, only to have to evacuate from the shelters as the fires follow everyone towards the coast. And it's just getting started. We are all safe but the burn unit at UCSD is flooded with victims (17 thus far). The winds are howling at up to 70 MPH and the air is thick with smoke and ash all over San Diego county.
Daily Reading pt 1....
Will the GOP Election Theft Machine Do It Again in 2008? - by Bob Fitrakis and Harvey Wasserman
- http://freepress.org/departments/display/19/2007/2857
With record low approval ratings for the Bush/Cheney regime and the albatross of an unpopular war hanging from the GOP's neck, do you think that a Democratic presidential candidate will win the White House, get us out of Iraq, and end our long national nightmare? Think again – the mighty election theft machine Karl Rove used to steal the US presidency in 2000 and 2004 may be under attack, but it is still in place for the upcoming 2008 election.
Expert: Warming Climate Fuels Mega-Fires - http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2007/10/18/60minutes/main3380176.shtml
Featured last night on 60 Minutes
The Future Is Drying Up – Vanishing Water - http://www.nytimes.com/2007/10/21/magazine/21water-t.html?_r=3&oref=slog...
Picture of Hoover Dam....very telling
Scientists sometimes refer to the effect a hotter world will have on this country’s fresh water as the OTHER water problem, because global warming more commonly evokes the specter of rising oceans submerging our great coastal cities. By comparison, the steady decrease in mountain snowpack — the loss of the deep accumulation of high-altitude winter snow that melts each spring to provide the American West with most of its water — seems to be a more modest worry. But not all researchers agree with this ranking of dangers.
Oil Wars now....that way...the super rich will be able to afford life's most precious commodity...water....Water Wars are already here...
The hypocrisy of the GOP/Free Marketist-Corporatists: With water supplies rapidly shrinking during a drought of historic proportions, Gov. Sonny Perdue declared a state of emergency Saturday for the northern third of Georgia and asked President Bush to declare it a major disaster area.
- http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20071020/ap_on_re_us/southern_drought;_ylt=Aj...
What do Republicans that 'hate government' do...when they run into trouble....well...they run to the federal government to bail them out of their own stupidity...
John Linder (R-GA) "global warming & evolution are myths", the biggest moron under the sun does what every republican does...slams the endangered species act...instead of condemning the overdevelopment of surrounding lands that require water sources to be redirected to compensate the disgusting overdevelopment by corporatist construction cabals...no zoning, no restrictions...the real reason for the problems
More than a billion gallons of water is released from Lanier every day. The Corps of Engineers bases its water releases on two requirements: The minimum flow needed for a coal-fired power plant in Florida and mandates to protect two mussel species in a Florida river.
GOP & Republicans slam environmental groups that try to prevent this from happening...then...ask the tax payers to 'conserve' when their policies created the problem in the 1st place....hypocrisy...the foundation of any republican
Oceans Are ‘Soaking Up Less CO2 - http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/7053903.stm
There are two major natural carbon sinks: the oceans and the land "biosphere". They are equivalent in size, each absorbing a quarter of all CO2 emissions.
Daily Reading pt 2...
Inch by Inch, Great Lakes Shrink, and Cargo Carriers Face Losses - http://www.nytimes.com/2007/10/22/nyregion/22oswego.html
California will sue the Bush administration next week to demand action on a long-stalled request to let the state limit auto emissions of gases linked to global warming, Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger's office said Friday. - http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/c/a/2007/10/20/MNU2ST4SS.DTL
Gas prices up a nickel in past two weeks according to national survey and are up 60 cents from the same time a year ago; more increases expected. - http://money.cnn.com/2007/10/21/news/economy/gasprices/index.htm?cnn=yes
Energy Traders Avoid Scrutiny & Regulation, Even Though They Impact Us All - http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/10/20/AR2007102001203.html?hpid=moreheadlines
Edwards warns of 'corporate Democrats' - http://www.usatoday.com/news/politics/election2008/2007-10-20-edwards-un...
Letterman Lampoons Bush's Historically Low Approval Rating, Inability to Speak - http://www.alternet.org/blogs/video/65537
Female shuttle commander to meet female station skipper for first time - http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21382744/
"About 30 million low-income American households who will need help paying heating bills this winter from a U.S. government program will be left in the cold because of a lack of funding for the program." All Bush has is OUR tax money to be used for war and death and oil.
- http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20071019/pl_nm/poor_usa_winter_dc;_ylt=Ak.CwjYMjjjFR8gUDAvsArWs0NUE
Destruction of Evidence – Ohio’s 2004 Ballots - http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/HL0710/S00300.htm
Georgia recognize that the historic drought had created a disaster for 85 counties. Next thing you know these anti-government aid white southerners will be beseeching Washington for federal aid. - http://www.ajc.com/metro/content/metro/stories/2007/10/20/perdueweb_1020...
Higher food bills squeezing working families in America - http://www.suntimes.com/news/nation/612788,CST-NWS-stretch21.article
To all idiot selfish republicans that say...they should find a better job or 'work harder'...pray tell...where are these great jobs you speak of??? Work harder?? What...2 jobs...3 jobs is 'uniquely american'??
Dumbledore is gay and the right is pissed.
"One major anti-Potter crusader is Laura Mallory, a mother of four from Georgia, who made headlines earlier this month when she told the Gwinnett County Board of Education that the series was trying to indoctrinate children into the Wicca religion....Mallory told ABC News that the Potter series has 'an anti-Christian agenda...'"
She went on to say, "A homosexual lifestyle is a harmful one," she added. "That's proven, medically."
"Not surprisingly, conservatives at Saturday's Values Voters' summit in Washington also had some thoughts on the now controversial wizard.
"I feel like children's books shouldn't be political -- they shouldn't have political ties, they're entertainment," attendee Katie Beach said. "I think it's pretty ridiculous for her to say that or to do that."
Yes, children should never be exposed to the reality that lies ahead of them. They should just grow up to be intolerant conservatives who refuse to listen to ideas that violate their world view wheather it is right or wrong.
in case you havent been paying attention,and still believe we will finally have an election thats not been rigged, thoes diebold voteing machines are still waiting for you on election day! thoes repigs that purged the voters that would vote democrat are setting at thier desks gettingready to fuck us again, they know wich states they have to fix and they know they rigged the last to presidential elections and came out smelling like a rose! so i wouldnt be so overjoyed that the pepigs are low on the totem pole and 08s a sure thing, and before you pooh poo the thought that they can get away with it one more time ,they know you wont do jackshit about it when they screw us again in 08, these repigs are vicious bastards who believe they are the only party that knows what you need , and if they feel that hiller an under the covers repig suit the bill and will further thier agenda they will use her , democracys only an illushion at this point!!!!kucinich 08
xoites defends Constitution @ 55:
<blockquote"One major anti-Potter crusader is Laura Mallory, a mother of four from Georgia...'"
Hey, xoites,
How've you been?
I wish they would stop giving these redneck retards airplay. It's bad enough I have to live amongst these idiots without being reminded of their 15 minutes of undeserved fame. Naive me, I thought moving to Florida would help. HA!
GOP Mantra: The only good hero is a dead one.
The Dixie Mafia - Cronies, Killers, Dealers, & Traitors
Hannah Montana To Announce As A Republican
Edwin @ 44:
The Constitution is not just a piece of paper. And by some considered a brilliant document that was created by the founding fathers. Yet, some would consider it is obvious that at certain times in motion the political pendulum swings right back to tyranny opposite to the very reason it was constructed.
To have three balanced areas of government clearly is not happening today. Imagine our founders took all those qualities and governing powers of the King of England and created sections in the Constitution called executive, legislative, and judicial. Isn’t it interesting how this political triangle is being challenge by the minority triangle of Latinos, Blacks, and Gays. Here power and money is about to change, and those that have compared to the have nots are not going to give up easy.
My point is, War is a very immoral way to profiteer money and power through fear. All, which is happening right now by Bush and company as the “DECIDER” yet close business partners with the very enemy America is fighting. For decades Bush has been close business partners with the Bin Laden Arab ruling class in the oil rich country Arabia where America buys its oil from. Incredibly you can be sure Bush and Company move their family fortunes with influence from the very Arab family that ironically is the primer financer to Al Qaeda and other terrorist groups around the world. Since this has never been challenged in open media debates one can only deduce the media is in the same profiteering funnel covered up through the use of “National Security Secrets” classifying any intelligence that would lead to Main media own profiteering. No way can a balance of power happen with this going on.
The true problem our founding fathers did not anticipate is the technology that has developed and most disappointing is the upper educated class elite have taken to using this technology in American mainstream Media with deliberate corruption chaos, greed, and disregard for humanity. Its sad and scary far worse than the extremist Islamic terrorist that surround us.
The Group News Blog rocks
Remember the "sex sting" that cost NW Florida US DA Roy Atchison his life (by "suicide")?
WHITE HOUSE EXECUTES ANOTHER DEADLY CAMPAIGN AGAINST PROSECUTORS
Another in a long line of specious suicides involving potential whistleblowers.
Tin-Foil Hat? Or not...
Dr. Know @ 62:
Thanks for that link. Frightening coincidences abound. Our government scares the hell out of me.
There is a group out there that has already begun the work of re-aligning the Democratic Party. Your participation is welcome.
It was originally called Dean for America but as of February 2004 is known as Democracy for America and it is building an army of "on the ground" organizers armed with the skills and tools to take back America from the ground up. If you are still thinking that you can turn this country around by focussing your efforts on on who is elected President or Senator from Maine, I am here to disabuse you of that notion. Any real, lasting change must start at the precinct level. Your precinct in particular. So, get to work on your neighbors. Get them writing letters to the editor, calling into talk shows, and, most importantly, voting early and often and then holding those people accountable for their actions while in office.
Find a DFA group near you here or start your own!
dadams @ 7:
I agree too that it IS a possibility. One that actually looks more likely the more that is learned of the truth of this administration. I don't think it's going to be easy to make them accountable but I think it can and should happen.
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