Giuliani on waterboarding: 'It depends on who does it'
By Steve Benen Wednesday Oct 24, 2007 8:30pm 
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(Nicole: David Shuster on Countdown discussed Rudy's complete lack of knowledge or understanding of the terror threats surrounding 9/11 and I'm including the segment here as I think it brings even more to Steve Benen's post.)
At a town-hall meeting in Iowa last night, Rudy Giuliani did his best impression of a crazy person.
After noting that Giuliani ally Michael Mukasey, the Attorney General nominee, "fudged" his answer on waterboarding, a local woman asked if a presudebt can order waterboarding, even though it's torture.
Mr. Giuliani responded: “Okay. First of all, I don’t believe the attorney general designate in any way was unclear on torture. I think Democrats said that; I don’t think he was.”
Ms. Gustitus said: “He said he didn’t know if waterboarding is torture.”
Mr. Giuliani said: “Well, I’m not sure it is either. I’m not sure it is either. It depends on how it’s done. It depends on the circumstances. It depends on who does it.
This is the guy who claims to be an expert on national security and counter-terrorism? Seriously?
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Guiliani is going down.
It's OK if god fearing republicans do it!
"Mr. Guiliani, do you approve of waterboarding?"
"Umm.......Well, I tell ya, it depends on.........hang on, its the wife"
So Rudy, if you or someone you love gets waterboarded, is it torture? If it is for you, it is for everyone. Can't have it both ways.
Translation - If the USA does it, it's not torture!
This is the same kind of thinking Nixon had - If the President does it, it's not illegal!
Actually, Giuliani is entirely correct. Sorry, guys!
...
(Hint: It's not torture when Keifer Sutherland is at the helm.)
odanny @ 3:
"Oh, s-sorry. Thought it was the wife, guys - it was actually 9/11 on the phone."
Here's an idea on this "was it torture or not"-argument. The point is "abuse" is the standard, and it's illegal.
Here's the idea: If the GoP-Congress-WH-DoJ want to play the game of "see no evil," then do this: Determine which CEOs made inside trades on the assumption that the issues of Geneva violations would get swept under the rug.
Let's contact the SEC, encourage them to review the trades of all CEOs related to any firm that provided contracted-security for POWs at GTMO, Abu Ghraib, or in Iraq; then find out whether the CEOs made trades on their stocks in anticipation that that they would be immune to war crimes indictments/FISA violations.
Perhaps when the Inquisition did it, it was a sacrement.
Ghouliani is gonna' try to convince the Pope to become the head of the CIA.........
"Well, 9/11."
I'd like to Waterboard the whole f&%king Repug Party!
Just more pandering by Rudy -- like his NEW FORM OF ‘CROSS-DRESSING’
That is without a doubt one of the top ten most reprehensible things I have ever heard a Presidential candidate say. The Republicans have truly turned this country into their own open-air insane asylum.
Pfeh, as if getting caught in whoppers were any kind of liability in politics anymore. No such thing as bad publicity....
"It depends on who does it."
Is waterboarding "torture" if my dog does it? Because I'm tellin' ya, after seeing it demonstrated on CNN, my dog is JUST ACHING to waterboard the cat. I mean, he dragged an ironing board and water pail over to the cat's bed the other day, although he wasn't sure what to do at that point...
Oh, one last thing. If "Maryanne" from Gilligan's Island waterboards, is that torture? Because -- and I'll come out and admit to some sort of weird S&M fetish here -- picturing Maryanne waterboard some terrorist-lookin' dude, well come on, that's just totally hot.
You can't use "seriously" and "Rudy Giuliani" in the same sentence. They don't mix.
No, Rudy is the guy who will hasten the police state in the interest of
furthering his own political power. He's more a monster than Bush.
...
Someone told me The Joker dropped by Woodstock and gobbled a sheet of the brown acid.
And, apparently, thus was born Ghouliani.
slippytoad @ 17:
Oh yeah? How's this: "Rudy Giuliani is the candidate of the seriously fucked up mental cases who crave a strong authority figure to tell them what to do and how to think because of their seriously deficient parental relationships, which is seriously expressed in Giuliani's children's disassociation with him in their adult lives."...so, there...
In Iowa yesterday, GOP frontrunner Rudy Giuliani followed Bush Attorney General nominee Michael Mukasey in playing dumb on the subject of torture. It should come as no surprise that Giuliani would argue that whether waterboarding violates the Geneva Convention depends on what the definition of "torture" is. Even less surprising is that the same man who in May endorsed "every method they could think of" would now jokingly claim that he was a victim of torture himself.
For the details, see:
"Giuliani Flip-Flops on Waterboarding, Jokes About Torture."
George_Metesky @ 20:
If you put it that way . . .
Don't you understand. They take a tired person, put them on the spot, and then attack them with a specific question from any angle - both sides do it and all of you encourage it because you've never been put in the same situation.
If you had - you would have compassion and empathy. Instead, people criticize from their self-dug trench - and what does that help?
It depends on how it’s done. It depends on the circumstances. It depends on who does it.
Sigh.
Am I the only one around here old enough to remember when the Democrats were accused of being the party of "situational ethics"?
I guess if your rich and white you can do what you want, if your poor and brown - you are fucked!
Worst. President. Ever. @ 24:
Unfortunately, both the Democrats and Republicans are flip-sides of the same worn-out, rusty nickel.
The Democrats are less evil, but only slightly, and no one in their camp has the guts to lead like the last great American president, JFK.
It's understandable. No one wants to be a martyr, no one wants to die like JFK, MLK, RFK, Wellstone or even John Lennon.
But capitulation and acquiescence will only take us down a road darker than the road through the Black Forest, circa 1945.
My post earlier today on Think Progress is germane to this conversation. If it isn't torture, as the Rudys and the Mukaseys want us to think, then why are they bothering to subject the detainees to the conditions? If it isn't torture, how do they think they're going to get someone to talk? If it isn't torture, or it matters who's doing it, or why, then why bother. The people in a position to push back need a lesson in logic
RUDY is just another rightwing goose stepping zealot. Just another disgusting piece of humanity. POOR RUDY, the man is morally and spiritually bankrupt.
Rudy, take two Viagra and call me in the morning, you dumb sonofabitch. And bring your favorite wasrag. We're gonna party. You first. C'mon, lay right down. This'll be easy. It ain't torture, right? That's a boy, take a nice, deep breath. Her it comes...
Rudy is a power hungry putz that believes his own PR. This guy would sell his own mother to be president.
He is nothing more than a caricature of a scummy politician.
If he is elected as president he will make Boosh look good.
Dahgrostab'ph-r-i @ 25:
Its a rich poor thing... what color is condi? alberto gonzales? why are you starting this...we are all fucked. period....why race? I see bush doing big busines w Arabs and Latinos....(Mexico has oil) too Japanese and Chinese are doin pretty well now too!!! why race??
looks to me like if you got money or stuff (and or lack of morals) you can play the game (regardless of race)
I dare say take it (race) elsewhere...lets be poor and pissed of in unity
When asked why people should tolerate the US water boarding people Ghoullyani replied,, Why should it bother you, unless you have something to hide.
When Ghoullyani was then asked how do you tell if someone is lying when you are water boarding them, He answered, If they keep breathing after you have dunked them they are lying.
Dahgrostab'ph-r-i @ 25:
Well hopefully you enjoy it.
"street fighter"-Chris Matthews on Rudy
I love how the guest pronounces Rudy's last name "Julie Annie".
There was plenty of information on what a dufus Bush was before he was "elected" the first time. That didn't prevent it from happening. The Democrats could still lose this one to another unqualified selection. It's all about turnout.
We want Giuliani to get the nomination, remember he can't win the south.
It depends on who does it???wtf....OH That's right...they have to be certified by the repug school of torture...an accredited school where only the best need apply.And must possess a neocon right wing membership to the Repugnican Party. Experience not necessary ,will provide OJT.Conscience not required
Don't forget Kerick was his right hand man.....and that guy was a thug(with a badge)
Rudy thinks blind people should be able to carry guns:
http://www.gunguys.com/?p=2593
Let's strap Rudy up and give it a shot and see what he thinks then. What a dope.
If Benito Mussolini was known as Il Duce, then Benito Ghoulinai should be known as Il Douchebag.
Let's
pretendrudi is a liar and we want to know about his mafia ties. Put rudi in his garter belt, fishnet stockings and red pumps and waterboard his ass.Imagine rudi's legs flailing as he is waterboarded.
Pure comic relief.
well i think i could endure the repukes waterboarding me , but i draw the line at sister Guiliani circumsiseing me with thoes horse teeth of his!!!!1
Dahgrostab'ph-r-i @ 25:
Correction:
if you're poor and/or brown then you are fucked.
Canuck Stuck in Muck @ 27:
Good point.
Oops. No one could have predicted that that document would be released.
.
Trudy Julie-Anne: "It's not torture when America does it.
It's not a war of aggression when America does it.
It's not fascism when America does it."
.
TC-14 @ 16:
Dude, you need help. But thanks for the smile.
Torture for Giuliano is when his wife asks him to commit to a lifelong bond in marriage...to love and cherish to honor and obey...etc.
Waterboarding is what you do on a warm and sunny summer day at the beach.
Anyone who thinks waterboarding is not torture should be waterboarded. New Attorney General not sure about waterboarding? Waterboard his ass right there in the hearing room on live TV. We should have an answer in about 4 mintues MAX. No, wait, that's too kind -- let him drown for about 10 minutes.
More proof that Giuliani is an authoritarian, an idiot and an ass**le.
When Pol Pot did it, it was torture. So maybe Americans need, once again, a historical reminder:
Waterboarding was one of Pol Pots favorite techniques. It is also one of Bush's favorite techniques.
Come one, kids, connect the dots.
As far as the "extraordinary rendition" program being a state secret, what's the secret? There's a best selling book out about it for crying out loud.
"It depends on who is doing it".
The only "depends" about it is the ones G-man probably wears at night to keep from wetting his bed.
Simple question, tortured answer.
Rufus @ 51:
I agree, there is no point in playing the semantics game. If in doubt, try it out on whoever is being asked.
"Ms. Gustitus said: “He said he didn’t know if [gerbils up the rear] is torture.”
"Mr. Giuliani said: “Well, I’m not sure it is either. I’m not sure it is either. It depends on how it’s done. It depends on the circumstances. It depends on who does it."
Actually, Giuliani has a point. Imagine this scenario:
The broad he's married to wraps his head in a towel, jams it in the toilet, flushes it while giving him a blow job, and records the whole thing on her video-phone.
Is that torture?
Maybe for him; certainly not for the rest of us YouTube watchers.
Depends on how it's done!?!? Is he frickin nuts? Waterboarding is waterboarding. The effect is the same. It causes psychological trauma AND physical harm. Anyone but a sadistic jackass would tell you waterboarding qualifies as torture. Guess that makes all the republicans sadistic jackasses.
Further into the question and answer period a woman questioned him about what constitutes rape, whether having sex with a woman without her consent was, in fact, rape.
Mr. Giuliani said: “Well, I’m not sure it is either. I’m not sure it is either. It depends on how it’s done. It depends on the circumstances. It depends on who does it. It depends on whether she really means no. It depends on whether she's drunk."
I think any politician who claims he/she doesn't believe waterboarding is torture should allow himself to be subjected to watertorture. I heard that when some FBI/CIA interrogators did just that, they only lasted 14 seconds.
Amoral? Check.
He'll be a perfect GOPer candidate.
Can anyone get me Rudy on the line? Here's my offer: I'll do it. I'll do it to Giuliani. And after I've done it to him, he can tell the world whether it was torture or not.
(Is the bastinado torture? Is the strapado? Well, senor, it really depends on whether we do it for Jesus or just for our own pleasure.) ;-)
Who says these guys didn't believe in cultural relativity? Clearly they do....
"It's not torture when WE do it"
Rudy has left fact-based reality and entered the realm of the NAKED EMPEROR
Question to G. ---- Would you mind if our soldiers were waterboarded as a form of interrogation by the enemy?
The mantra of the U.S. Administration: It's evil unless we do it.
As for me, what would be worse than being waterboarded would be to endure a Giuliani presidency: watching him double the number of Americans in jail from 2 million to 4, start WW III, and the whole time wear a blonde wig and a red evening gown accented by a big diamond swastika.
This alone disqualifies Giuliani for the presidency. Torture is a war crime pure and simple. Waterboarding is torture. Anyone who approves of or engages in waterboarding should be tried for war crimes. I am just sickened by what the Repubs have turned this country into.
Here's what I think needs to be done. Ask candidate for (supreme court, elected office, attny gen) "Do you support the use of water boarding is appropriate in the case where the extremely important information, vital to the american way of life is at stake? Say in the case of someone reluctant to provide that information?"
Insist on a YES or NO.
Its probably going to be "yes"
Then, instruct the security personnel to bring out the water board and proceed to use it, very publicly, on the person who just said YES, and get the very important, answers which MUST be true because no one would make stuff up to avoid that sort of thing, and clearly its really all ok.
Over the recent years, I've thought that maybe we should incorporate lie-detector tests for Presidential wannabees - just to get a good idea if they have any relationship with the truth before they get annointed. But Rudy has a point. If they look marginally okay on the detector test, but it's not decisive, then we should move to waterboarding to ascertain the candidates' view on important issues.
Someone finally tells the truth: It depends on who does it.
American soldiers and mercenary forces: Freedom fighters.
Arabs: terrorists.
US water boarding: enhanced interrogation.
Nazi Verschärfte Vernehmung (enhanced interrogation): torture.
Anyone other than the US or ally of the US water boarding: torture.
Democrat lies about blow job: impeachable offense.
Republican lies about weapons of mass destruction to con public and Congress into support of illegal war: Impeachment off the table. Nothing to look at here. Move along.
Christian says all jews should become Christian (perfected): Good Christian.
Good Christian and former US president says that the Israel government is practicing what amounts to apartheid: anti-Semitic.
Public interest group calls general a hack: must be condemned by Congress.
Fat loudmouth right wing radio personality calls soldiers opposing the war "phony soldiers": should be commended by Congress for his unwavering support of the troops.
I could go on, but I'm have to go vomit now.
Giuliani is so uneducated, like Dumbya, that it's scarey. He doesn't even have a chance in Hell of winning musical chairs.
Its a very gentle torture... after which, they are lightly killed, and sealed in a succulent, Swiss, quintuple-smooth, treble-milk chocolate envelope, and lovingly frosted with glucose.
Spoken like a criminal. I mean, sure, rape, murder, torture. Hey, you have to look into the guy's heart to see whether he's a really good person before you get all judgmental and everything.
They may not know torture when they see it, but they sure as hell know pornography when they see that.
Gerbils up the rear may or may not be torture for us, but you can be assured it is torture to the gerbil. The poor gerbil is being analboarded!
"It depends on who does it."
That statement perfectly sums up America's attitude towards its own foreign policies. There are many things we do in other countries that, if the shoe were on the other foot, we would call terrorism, torture and crimes against humanity.
John Dean warned against Rudy saying he would be worse than Dubya.
If the electorate puts Rudy in the Oval Office, or sits passively while he orchestrates another Republican coup, the world will come to the conclusion that Dubya was the new American norm, not an aberration. Americans traveling abroad will be at increased risk because of Republican policy.
Stop calling it Waterboarding. Start calling it "repeatedly drowning and reviving prisoners".
Wayne Barret has been covering Guiliani for years. He's a great investigative reporter. The "resume padding" that Guiliani is now engaged in is nothing short of a lie and a complete slap to all of the people who died in NYC on 9-11. He was not concerned about bin Laden during his administration — he was too busy hassling taxi drivers, nickel bag sellers, street vendors, squatters, UN delegates, and museums that displayed art he didn't like.
What's the difference between Sadistic Abuse and Torture?
Answer: The extraction of information.
Torture is sadistic abuse with the added bonus of getting some information from the tortured/abused. Sadism is for the pure enjoyment of inflicting torment upon another person.
I say give the Salem which test. Anyone that says a practice is not torture must undergo it.
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