Condolences to Mr. Kucinich, sorry for your loss. Kucinich is my and should be every (sane) Americans candidate for president.

No chance though for him to become president.

http://americangoy.myblogsite.com/

It's sad about Dennis Kucinich's brother and our condolences to the Kucinich family and friends.

Too bad it took something like this for the media to mention Dennis Kucinich's name.

Talk by Naomi Wolf author of “The End of America: Letter of Warning To A Young Patriot” given October 11, 2007 at Kane Hall on the University of Washington campus...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RjALf12PAWc

Some of you may have seen the above, but this woman is amazing and I want to share it with those who haven't seen it yet.

Mr. Kucinich, please accept my condolences. My heart goes out to you and your family. May your brother, Perry, rest in peace.

Glen Beck talks about how he'd like to French kiss Ron Paul (seriously)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o0ul9q321o8

Bumped this over here, since site-monitor complained.

Ron Paul accepted $500 from the founder of Stormfront, a (if not the) nexus of white supremacist websites. Said founder was also the Grand Wizard of the KKK, who "left" the KKK and signed up with arch-racist David Duke's "New Orleans Protocol," which is all about making white supremacist racism 'mainstream.'

Candidate Ron Paul apparently wants to help Duke and Black, by publically acepting campaign funding from them. Is that where the relationship ends, at fellating the racists? Guess again.

Paul in LA @ 97 (thread below): The ONLY response that is acceptable is to refuse the money, and make a firm statement rejecting ALL money from white supremacist gangs.

noitaluspacne @ 89: "Did you even bother to watch the video? He explains his position quite clearly."

His 'position' is that he doesn't cheapen his cause by accepting donations from racists who are trying to mainstream their hatred.

The facts are otherwise.

Paul in LA @ 11:

Bumped this over here, since site-monitor complained.

Ron Paul accepted $500 from the founder of Stormfront, a (if not the) nexus of white supremacist websites. Said founder was also the Grand Wizard of the KKK, who "left" the KKK and signed up with arch-racist David Duke's "New Orleans Protocol," which is all about making white supremacist racism 'mainstream.'

Candidate Ron Paul apparently wants to help Duke and Black, by publically acepting campaign funding from them. Is that where the relationship ends, at fellating the racists? Guess again.

Paul in LA @ 97 (thread below): The ONLY response that is acceptable is to refuse the money, and make a firm statement rejecting ALL money from white supremacist gangs.

noitaluspacne @ 89: "Did you even bother to watch the video? He explains his position quite clearly."

His 'position' is that he doesn't cheapen his cause by accepting donations from racists who are trying to mainstream their hatred.

The facts are otherwise.

Gosh a hardline conservative has a racist streak?

Who'd have thunk it?

I have a new theory: Cheney is homosexual (not that there is anything wrong with that)

Paul in LA @ 11:

Bumped this over here, since site-monitor complained.

Ron Paul accepted $500 from the founder of Stormfront, a (if not the) nexus of white supremacist websites. Said founder was also the Grand Wizard of the KKK, who "left" the KKK and signed up with arch-racist David Duke's "New Orleans Protocol," which is all about making white supremacist racism 'mainstream.'

Candidate Ron Paul apparently wants to help Duke and Black, by publically acepting campaign funding from them. Is that where the relationship ends, at fellating the racists? Guess again.

Paul in LA @ 97 (thread below): The ONLY response that is acceptable is to refuse the money, and make a firm statement rejecting ALL money from white supremacist gangs.

noitaluspacne @ 89: "Did you even bother to watch the video? He explains his position quite clearly."

His 'position' is that he doesn't cheapen his cause by accepting donations from racists who are trying to mainstream their hatred.

The facts are otherwise.

Ron Paul is a racist??? No way!!!

anon @ 17:

Ron Paul is a racist??? No way!!!

Hard to draw the line between racism and states rights excuses for racism (or for that matter, anti-immigrant arguments which serve racists and 'soft racists' alike).

Apparently this is old news, just recently brought to wider recognition by the AP.

But there is a basic rule: Racists fall into two categories: those who admit it/brag about it, and those who take donations from the first category.

anon @ 17:

Ron Paul is a racist??? No way!!!

What a difference a day makes.

Right at this time last night I was engaged on a Huckabee thread here that devolved into some RonPaulTardBots demanding that I prove that Ron Paul wrote a racist newsletter about the 1992 LA Riots, and when I did present it to them they tried to call in doubt its authenticity and they then further telling me that Paul doesn't have a racist bone in his body.

Then this story breaks today.

Don't think we'll be hearing much from them on this, in a 'what's the matter, cat got your tongue?' sort of way.

What I find amazing is that it's just not registering with Paul's defenders that he's the kind of candidate that would appeal to the Stormfront organization, and others like it, to the point where its leader would send Paul a campaign contribution, and there's probably a very good reason that the founder of a white supremacist hate group likes him so much, so Paul's answer that taking and keeping the money is a drain on Stormfront's resources is completely irrelevant.

God, I'm really, really starting to hate everything about this elongated Presidential S/Election process and I dread being around this coming October/November 2008 because I don't see it going any other way but to get way worse than it is already.

~Nyc

Impreachment is not a dirty word, it's a right for our democracy.

.

I thought Wexler was only seeking 50,000?

WHAT HAPPENED TO THAT NUMBER?

Wexler promised to move at 50,000. And now he changed his mind to 250,000.
When he gets 250,000 will he insist on a million?
Will C&L cheer for that million then, too?

MOVING THE GOAL POSTS FOR POLITICAL PURPOSES.

Wexler stated, "Congress has an OBLIGATION, not a choice."
Does he exempt himself from this "Congress"? Is he exempt from "THAT" OBLIGATION?

What good is a man who makes promises about tomorrow for the needed change of today?
Find me that man and I'll show you someone who made a promise, an Oath, to ACT TODAY, not tomorrow.

How is Wexler supporting and defending the Constitution, It's Laws and Principles when he TALKS about doing something... TOMORROW?

.

Capitalism at work in China.

Max-1 @ 26:
Fuck off.

Response to #18...

Don't thank me thank Naomi. What she says is something most people don't even realize or understand unfortunately. Please pass it on to those you know.

11 Paul in LA Says: Bumped this over here, since site-monitor complained.

Ron Paul accepted $500 from the founder of Stormfront

LMAO

1 donation out out thousands and thousands donated online?

That's all you come up with?

Go look where Giuliani's and Hillary's, or any candidate for that matter (Dem or Rep), donations come from. Go look over each and every one of them and them come back here and tell me what you find. Please...actually go do it.

Our sympathies with the Kuchinch family. It cannot be easy to deal with a family member with mental health issues, where love and empathy prevail. These tragic deaths of people way too young to be taken, leave us with no closure. We offer our best wishes and thoughts to the family.

22 Dustin de Wynde Says:

What a difference a day makes.

Right at this time last night I was engaged on a Huckabee thread here that devolved into some RonPaulTardBots demanding that I prove that Ron Paul wrote a racist newsletter about the 1992 LA Riots, and when I did present it to them they tried to call in doubt its authenticity and they then further telling me that Paul doesn’t have a racist bone in his body.

I have heard Ron Paul explain this several times already when some media have tried to smear him as some of you are doing here. In fact he was just asked about this letter yesterday or the day before and explained once again.

He DID NOT WRITE the newsletter BUT he denounced it and the person who wrote it and took responsibility for it because his name was on the letter.

When that guy on Hillary's campaign made the comment about Obama and his drug use, just because he had Hillary's name behind him does that mean she agrees with the person? NO

This happened HOW LONG AGO? and it wasn't even him who wrote it, yet people try and use it to smear him because that is all they got?

Must not have too great of a candidate yourself if you have to spread lies I guess ;)

yenehC hcaepmI @ 34:

That's all you come up with?

I have even more, besides the above and below:
Hey Rich Fucks! I Want You to be Able to Take it with You!

From the pen of Doctor Ron Paul.

Hell, the richest guys in the world, who this would 'benefit' most, disagree with him on this.

I Love the Fucking Pope, and Haters, Quit Dissenting About His Opinion; It IS the Word of God, After All

By St Ron Paul

Brown People-Could It Get Any Ickier? YES! Illegal Immigrants. And the Disabled as Well. Fuck taking Care of Those in Need

By Ron Paul

I've made my point. He damns himself.

Max-1 @ 37:

Thing Fish @ 30:

Max-1 @ 26:
Fuck off.

WOW, such resistance to such blatant truth.

I signed on, I've passed it around, I've been WITH this push for over TWO YEARS now.
He's been slow and resistant to move. Thank goodness he is moving... LIKE A SNAIL!

TWO whole YEARS now, huh? Democracy isn't anarchy. And while you whine about WAITING you can't help acknowledging progress is being made.

Now anarchy is great if you accept a higher level of violence and the risk you'll snuff it before your opponents. In the end, it's just a return to law of nature.

If NOT ACTING FAST ENOUGH is good for you

You know how the Bush administration got what they wanted? By forcing others to rush through decisions. Don't think you're right for using the approach.

yenehC hcaepmI @ 45:

41 miss_kitty Says: Fuck Universal Health Care
By Dr Ron Paul

Do some research and tell me what he did for inner city people when they couldn't afford health care. Please go and look.

Why did he give out so much free health care? Huh? tell me why?

He wants to FIX health care in America.

Read what he writes. One guy giving freebies in Faroffastan years ago-where ever he practiced-isn't going to help me or the majority of the poor. You Read what he wrote...he wants some presto changeo tax magic (It's all about not paying taxes with this guy-does he not realise we have to PAY for shit?)

And what say you about his other musings? I find them quite disturbing. He's a nutbag.

LOL!!!

Kristol and Krauthammer booted off Time Magazine.

http://www.observer.com/2007/kristol-krauthammer-are-out-time

slovenia @ 43:

Can anyone tell me where I can see a list of which congressthings voted for and against the budget bill? Thanks in advance.

http://projects.washingtonpost.com/congress/

It's sad but I'm actually AFRAID to sign the petition, I fear retribution.

yenehC hcaepmI @ 53:

miss_kitty, there is no point responding to the others if you are going to interpret what you read into something it is not.

Wow. you guys don't even believe your own lying eyes...

Ha ha ha. That's sad laughter.

miss_kitty @ 56:

yenehC hcaepmI @ 53:

miss_kitty, there is no point responding to the others if you are going to interpret what you read into something it is not.

Wow. you guys don't even believe your own lying eyes...

Ha ha ha. That's sad laughter.

Actually, on second thought, sounds like you caved. :lol:

48 miss_kitty Says: It’s all about not paying taxes with this guy-does he not realise we have to PAY for shit?

Do you know how many different taxes there are and what each of them are supposed to be for?

He has said we can eliminate the multi trillion dollar foreign policy, eliminate the income tax and STILL TAKE CARE OF THE PEOPLE CURRENTLY DEPENDANT ON THE PROGRAMS.

Oh, you are right on one account miss_kitty...Everyone is paying taxes for A LOT of SHIT!

Condolences to the Kucinich family.

"....And personal insults mean you lost the debate and got nothing left."

pffft!

ROTFLMAO.

I'm not playing by your rules kid.

66 miss_kitty Says:

I’m not playing by your rules kid.

It's still a free country, do whatever you want. I'm not telling you NOT to do it. I'm just trying to point out to you what you sound like when you do.

What is your level of education if you mind me asking?

As a young adult I was a pretty rabid Republican, but over the years a lot of my political views have changed. One of the major ones is that I've become a big believer in a big, strong, and powerful government, past just having cops and fireman, because we need it to keep an eye on each other, and also to help each other out.

Done right, Big Government works. We see this with VA Healtcare, (the anomoly of Walter Reed notwithstanding), Social Security, our Public School system as it was 25 years ago before we started dismantling it, the WPA, which put hundreds of thousands of Americans to work when this country was in dire need of employment, since the Private Sector had collapsed at that point, and many of the projects from that era are still standing today, and I could go on with example after example. The myth of a rugged individual is just that, a myth, and anyone that believes in it would be well advised to go back and check their premises.

The other major one, that I've only come to as of late is that I've lost my slavish devotion to the Sacred US Constitution. I've really started to look at it in a whole new light, which is instead of seeing it as some sort of shining beacon, I not only find it flawed, through and through, but I see it as an indictment as a study of black and white as to just how messed up We The People are.

The case I make for this is is that if we had the kind of decency that we put on the kind of airs that we do, then it would not have been necessary to put prohibition in writing in it to cover things like not putting detainees through cruel and unusual punishment, or guaranteeing ourselves the right to speak or making sure that we are secure in our homes.

And not only is the Constitution flawed, but it's very much out of date, and given how much the world and the USA has changed since it was written it's long past due to revisit it and perhaps re-write the thing from the ground up so that it's much more in line with the 21st Century world that we now live in.

Because of these views of mine there are certain candidates for President that I in no way can support, especially those that want to limit the scope of the Government and hold the US Constitution out in front of them like it's some sort of Holly Shield, since I see their candidacies as a step backwards instead of forwards, and haven't we all had enough of that?

~Nyc

Speaking of racists, Tancredo cuts n runs from the race. Good, ya fuckin loser.

The neocons are not wanted anymore. Say goodbye to the Kristol, Krauthammer columns in Time magazine

yenehC hcaepmI @ 68:

66 miss_kitty Says:

I’m not playing by your rules kid.

It's still a free country, do whatever you want. I'm not telling you NOT to do it. I'm just trying to point out to you what you sound like when you do.

What is your level of education if you mind me asking?

I was reading at a college level at the age of 10. School bored me. I made it out of high school and have about 8 years logged at various and sundry universities, and private colleges and even community colleges. Mostly Art and Science. No degree.

Response to #70 Dustin de Wynde-

Excellent and well put together post Dustin but I have to disagree.

Everytime the federal government gets involved or a department gets bigger the quality of whatever it provides gets worse and $Millions, $billions or $trillions get wasted or go missing.

When you get a chance go up to #5 and watch the video of Naomi Wolf.

The current administration wants you to abandon the constitution, just like they are. Bush called it a "God damned piece of paper". The constitution is actually there to protect YOU!

70 Dustin de Wynde

Your insistance an rewriting the Constitution is vague to say the least. In what way would you like to see it changed?

First, condolences to the Kucinich family. I have read Kucinich’s bio of his early years and it is apparent that he was his brother's keeper, and much of what he is today is a result of taking that responsibility.
And thank you ,bluegal, for reminding people of Wexler's effort to get the dem leaders to allow the impeachment bill to go to the floor. Like lefty, above, I am mystified as to why the 'left' blog are not all over this. Look around, no one else even mentions Wexler's petition. According to Glenn Greenwald, Dodd's filibuster effort was supported by and, to some degree, the result of A small group of bloggers who decided to make a big push re FISA and were able to get over 500K emails in a couple of days. Why these bloggers would make that effort about an amendment that does not go to the real problem with FISA (which is unconstitutional) and not make a similar effort wrt Impeachment makes one wonder about these bloggers motives. Are they afraid embarassing the dem 'leadership'? Has all the criticism of cheney just been for political effect?
her's a link to Greenwald's article. He seems very proud of what a small group of bloggers was able to effect wrt their readership, but I wonder, how many of these bloggers or their readers ever read the FISA bill w/ and w/o immunity? Personally, I don't think whether or not a few execs get immunity is as important as the problem w/ the star chamber aspect of the underlying bill.

http://www.salon.com/opinion/greenwald/2007/12/18/victory/index.html

Now, bluegal, maybe you could email some of the other influential bloggers and ask them to push for their readers to sign Wexler’s petition and keep track, on a daily basis, it’s progress. If the same effort that was put into the FISA thing is expended here, we will see cheney impeached in ‘08.

79 xoites defends Constitution Says: yenehC hcaepmI @ 68:

66 miss_kitty Says:

I’m not playing by your rules kid.

It’s still a free country, do whatever you want. I’m not telling you NOT to do it. I’m just trying to point out to you what you sound like when you do.

What is your level of education if you mind me asking?

Unwilling as i am to go through how this statement came up, may i at least state that Miss Kitty has been posting here for quite a while and has clearly shown her intelligence and ability to grasp concepts, her education is besides the point.

Yes I know. I have been coming here for quite some time myself and I have seen some of her posts and she does have some great input. If you read her posts in this thread she thinks insults work but they don't unfortunately.

I asked her level of education because she was using insults and ended that last one with kid.

I haven't used one insult with her, but she keeps going on and on with them as if trying to bait me into doing the same.

...oh...and yeah...I love that Naomi Wolf ;)

xoites defends Constitution @ 80:

70 Dustin de Wynde

Your insistance an rewriting the Constitution is vague to say the least. In what way would you like to see it changed?

I'm glad you asked.

Equal Rights for women is a good place to start, barring the use of money in our elections for Public Office, (when over a billion dollars is being spent in a Presidential election where the job nets $1 million after 4 years, it's proof that the current system is broken beyond repair), guaranteed, free, education, health care and more importantly a guaranteed minimum income for all US Citizens, as we've already done with the Alaskan Fund as a model, (and which Brazil and Portugal are already well on their way to creating), removing all bars to marriage between couples, regardless of their sex, elimination of the death penalty, switching the emphasis of the Second Amendment toward it being more geared to establishing a well regulated militia instead of it emphasizing the right to bear arms, converting the position of the Presidency from it being the job of just one person by granting the Cabinet more authority...

These are a just few items on my wish list, for now.

~Nyc

As far as Naomi Wolf is concerned, it seems to me we need to get our act together very soon. I watched "Sir, no Sir!" tonight and it brought home how much the war in Iraq is a repeat of Vietnam albeit with less opposition. The war in Vietnam cam to an end because many very different people chose, in many diferent ways to oppose it. Time for more of us to think creatively about how we can oppose this attack on our freedoms and the war and torture and all the rest of it.

Miss Kitty @ 61: I enjoyed this one. Also your entry @ 73.

yenehC hcaepmI @ 67: Wow, you actually compared abortion to torture. That's really pretty appalling.

If your main point is about language, as Miss Kitty's pointed out, abortion is indeed a medical procedure, even if you don't think that language is graphic enough. But look at what you're actually comparing. There's something called consent. A fetus, an embryo or a blastula is not a human being. In our society, a woman getting an abortion has chosen to do so. In contrast, a torture victim does not chose to be water-boarded or the like.

Look, you've got a right to your feelings, and if you're discomfited by abortion, fine. But the old Clinton line was safe, legal and rare. It you want to work to make abortion rarer, by, say, increasing funding for accurate sex education and providing birth control, or even offering universal health care, sounds great. But don't make abortion illegal and dangerous all over again.

There's a saying, that "conservatives' commitment to life ends at birth." It's quite true, and applies to most abortion rights opponents. It's striking how almost all of them will go on and on about fetuses but rarely talk about the woman, her feelings, and least of all the fact that she can make a rational decision on her own, even if it's one with which they disagree.

What exactly is your position? What's the pitch? "Yes, if we ban abortion, women will die again, painfully, from illegal back alley abortions, but that's a price we as a society must pay to end this evil practice." I mean, it's not a persuasive argument, but it would be an honest one, at least. It's not as if this stuff is theoretical. That's what did happen in the past. That's what would happen again, unless you have some astounding plan you're not sharing. But unless you acknowledge the dire consequences of the policy you seem to be advocating, I really can't take your stance seriously. (Especially after the torture comparison.)

As to your comment @ 81, most liberals but not all Democrats (not exactly the same thing) support reproductive freedom as part of a wide range of civil liberties. It's both logical and moral. Keeping abortion legal is right.

I'd further argue that forcing a woman to bear a child against her will is deeply immoral, much more so than abortion itself. There are abortion rights opponents who would not even grant exceptions for rape or incest. That's abhorrent, and cruel. Banning abortion makes little sense except in context of the true agenda, social control, specifically of women. That ain't very libertarian, come to think of it. ;-)

85 xoites defends Constitution Says:

We all have bad days. I have been angry here several times myself and said things i wish i had not. I am not saying Miss Kitty did not mean what she said, but she may just be pissed off.

Oh...for sure. I have no hard feelings towards her. This is the internet. I've seen worse. I've been to right-wing blogs and forums you know. LOL You should see how they act when I talk about the need to end the Iraq war and bring the troops home.

That is why I don't go down the insult road. It's pointless. The internet has created a faceless society so people find it easy to do those things.

You don't walk up to a complete stranger in a coffee shop you hear talking about someth9ing you don't agree with and start insulting them. LOL

miss_kitty is ok in my books, but I don't have to agree with her on everything. If she's married I bet her husband isn't even that whipped LOL

yenehC hcaepmI @ 92:

You don't walk up to a complete stranger in a coffee shop you hear talking about someth9ing you don't agree with and start insulting them. LOL

No, YOU don't. When it comes to hateful speech, I have bodily chased people down the street.

We are under no contract to put up with racism, for instance. In highly integrated Los Angeles, the racists are the only people not welcome here.

May i politely point out that if, as intended, we participate in our Democracy then we are the governent? And since there are around 300 million of us that makes us pretty big?

90 Batocchio Says:

If your main point is about language, as Miss Kitty’s pointed out, abortion is indeed a medical procedure, even if you don’t think that language is graphic enough

So, is water boarding only "enhance interrogation" and not torture because someone says so?

That's the only point I'm making.

As an Athiest i believe life is sacred. Why? Because after life lies cremation or embalming and burial. Worst case scenerio? Your body could be eaten by dogs or Christians who were your fellow passengers in a plane crash in the Andes. With that in mind i believe fighting for the lives of people who are here is deeply important. Not just their lives but their quality of life. That is why i oppose prisons and torture. It is why i oppose war. It is also why i oppose forcing women to give birth. I know from personal experience that once you are born the Catholic Church could not give a shit. My mother divorced my father before i was born. Officially the marriage was anulled thus saving my mother's immortal soul.

So i was born. She went to her Monsegnior and asked for help. His help came in advice. He advised her to put me up for adoption.

He was a very compassionate man.

My mother, however, was much more compassionate. As hard as it was for her on so many levels she kept me.

Abortion was not even the issue but the Catholic Church can go to hell.

yenehC hcaepmI @ 101:

94 Paul in LA Says:

No, YOU don’t. When it comes to hateful speech, I have bodily chased people down the street.

We are under no contract to put up with racism, for instance. In highly integrated Los Angeles, the racists are the only people not welcome here.

Huh? Did you read the posts?

Meaning what?

Paul in LA @ 103:

yenehC hcaepmI @ 99:

93 Paul in LA Says:
It is ONLY the woman’s choice. Who she decides to share that choice with is her decision.

The father has ZERO rights because in fact the woman’s health is endangered, not his.

Do you really believe that?

That's the actual truth. The father is not the one with MEDICAL rights being threatened by pregnancy. Paternity confers no power over the woman's INNATE right to control her own body.

Now, perhaps you could sue for some sort of lost property, but there are a wide range of situations in which a woman may choose not to carry conception to birth (or viability).

As it should be.

Perry Kucinich, about 10 years younger than his well-known congressman brother, lived by himself in an apartment above Becker's Donuts, a bakery in a two-story brick building on Cleveland's southeast side.

My deepest sympathies, but it seems clear to me it would be a suicide.

100 xoites defends Constitution Says: As an Athiest i believe life is sacred. Why? Because after life lies cremation or embalming and burial. Worst case scenerio? Your body could be eaten by dogs or Christians who were your fellow passengers in a plane crash in the Andes. With that in mind i believe fighting for the lives of people who are here is deeply important. Not just their lives but their quality of life. That is why i oppose prisons and torture. It is why i oppose war. It is also why i oppose forcing women to give birth. I know from personal experience that once you are born the Catholic Church could not give a shit. My mother divorced my father before i was born. Officially the marriage was anulled thus saving my mother’s immortal soul.

So i was born. She went to her Monsegnior and asked for help. His help came in advice. He advised her to put me up for adoption.

He was a very compassionate man.

My mother, however, was much more compassionate. As hard as it was for her on so many levels she kept me.

Abortion was not even the issue but the Catholic Church can go to hell.

Life is what makes us who we are and where we get our beliefs. We are all unique in who we are and what we believe. You and I probably agree on many things, and like I mentioned before, there are no two people in the world than can agree on all the same things.

xoites defends Constitution @ 100:

As an Athiest i believe life is sacred. Why? Because after life lies cremation or embalming and burial. Worst case scenerio? Your body could be eaten by dogs or Christians who were your fellow passengers in a plane crash in the Andes. With that in mind i believe fighting for the lives of people who are here is deeply important. Not just their lives but their quality of life. That is why i oppose prisons and torture. It is why i oppose war. It is also why i oppose forcing women to give birth. I know from personal experience that once you are born the Catholic Church could not give a shit. My mother divorced my father before i was born. Officially the marriage was anulled thus saving my mother's immortal soul.
So i was born. She went to her Monsegnior and asked for help. His help came in advice. He advised her to put me up for adoption.
He was a very compassionate man.
My mother, however, was much more compassionate. As hard as it was for her on so many levels she kept me.
Abortion was not even the issue but the Catholic Church can go to hell.

Where I'm sitting typing this is about 2 minutes by foot from the NYC High School where Frank McCourt had one of his first teaching jobs. His Angela's Ashes was instrumental in having me re-examine the role the church plays in dictating the lives of its flock, to the point where I have grown to loathe, and have nothing but contempt for, its leadership. Your story sounds like more of the same. After their decades long child-rape scandals finally came to light it amazes me to no end that these monsters that feed on creating human misery so as to enhance and expand their empire over the minds of the public still have any say in what's the moral life of Americans is supposed to be. Last Valentine's Day they went so far as to try and stop a free condom give away by the City of New York. What's it going to take for people to see these hateful, life-hating, vermin for what they truly are?

~Nyc

110 Dustin de Wynde

What’s it going to take for people to see these hateful, life-hating, vermin for what they truly are?

One possible solution would be for all humans to be born into Catholism. It actually works in most cases. :)

Looks like Arnie might be quitting politics.

Tequila @ 114:

Looks like Arnie might be quitting politics.

I knew he wasn't all bad!

This link is for anyone who still fantasizes about an impeachment of Cheney and Bush:

Ralph Nader: "Things Are a Lot Worse than We Thought!"

It'll never happen.

yenehC hcaepmI @ 92:

You don't walk up to a complete stranger in a coffee shop you hear talking about someth9ing you don't agree with and start insulting them. LOL

They are being racist I have and will, especially if they are younger than me.

Hazy @ 120:

yenehC hcaepmI @ 92:

You don't walk up to a complete stranger in a coffee shop you hear talking about someth9ing you don't agree with and start insulting them. LOL

They are being racist I have and will, especially if they are younger than me.

I admire your guts. In the past when confronted with racist remarks by coworkers i have said, "Excuse me, i am opposed to racism."

That usually ends conversations for quite a while.

xoites defends Constitution @ 119:

It MAY but only if more and more people become more informed and if people once becoming informed maintain the spread of what they know and come to terms with what their responsibilities are.

Education is certainly the path to freedom, without a doubt.

But these bastards haven't beaten the law. It's going to bite their pants off something awful. There has NEVER been as large an informed group of opponents to any criminal conspiracy in history. Has never happened before.

Their glory days are mostly over. There is no statute of limitations on most of their crimes. And they have been quite sloppy in covering their tracks on a great many counts -- which show of impunity is needed on the way up to cow people, but which is the wrong stuff on the way back down.

xoites defends Constitution @ 122:

In the past when confronted with racist remarks by coworkers .

That's a different case, coworkers. Extending ENDA to GLB, for instance, as the House did some months ago, is an example of how a strong government can handle your coworkers if necessary.

I'm talking about public acts of intolerance, not employment related.

Paul in LA @ 124:

xoites defends Constitution @ 119:

It MAY but only if more and more people become more informed and if people once becoming informed maintain the spread of what they know and come to terms with what their responsibilities are.

Education is certainly the path to freedom, without a doubt.

But these bastards haven't beaten the law. It's going to bite their pants off something awful. There has NEVER been as large an informed group of opponents to any criminal conspiracy in history. Has never happened before.

Their glory days are mostly over. There is no statute of limitations on most of their crimes. And they have been quite sloppy in covering their tracks on a great many counts -- which show of impunity is needed on the way up to cow people, but which is the wrong stuff on the way back down.

As an Athiest i pray you are correct.

Paul in LA @ 129:

Hazy @ 120:

They are being racist I have and will, especially if they are younger than me.

Well, there you go, Xoites. Three liberals who will walk the walk of their values, even at some risk.

Brownshirts need groups. Individually, bigots are generally cowards.

People of strong moral values walk the talk everyday and make no bones about it and probably not enough noise either, but then that would not be within their moral values, would it?

Wow... Mr. Kucinich... I know having an anonymous person on a blog you may never read say "I'm sorry about your loss" probably means jack squat to you...

But in all sincerity; you've got my every sympathy. Be well sir, your country needs you, but take as much time as you can for yourself too.

121 xoites defends Constitution Says:

On the other hand do you feel comfortable walking up to anyone face to face and just telling them what you think on the street?

I doubt it.

I'm 6' 7" and 250 lbs and not afraid to do anything if it was necessary. I talk about any beliefs I want in earshot of whoever I want. I have never had anyone walk up to me and insult me like happens on the internet and I can bet none of you have either. It just doesn't happen.

I have busted up guys who have made racist comments towards innocent people on the street, I have busted up guys being disresepectful to girls in the bar, but I'm not going to walk up to people and insult them because I hear them talking about something I don't agree with.

Sorry, you are talking about isulting people. You prefer "busting them up?"

yenehC hcaepmI @ 134:
<blockquote
I have never had anyone walk up to me and insult me like happens on the internet and I can bet none of you have either. It just doesn't happen.

Guess it depends on where you live. I've had prople come up and insult me just for living.

Hazy @ 138:

yenehC hcaepmI @ 134:
<blockquote
I have never had anyone walk up to me and insult me like happens on the internet and I can bet none of you have either. It just doesn't happen.

Guess it depends on where you live. I've had prople come up and insult me just for living.

Yeah i have to admit i have been insulted on the street a few times myself. Then again i am not 6 foot 7.

If i was into insulting people on the street i, personally would stick to older women (preferably using walkers). I would only do it from the window of a stollen car in an area i have no intention to return to. I would use a wig and make up and fake an Irish accent and make sure no one else could hear what i said.

Other than that i think i could be a typical "street insulter" given a little time.

I don't insult people like that; but I do shoot them down with logic. Which usually leads to their screaming at me. Its actually kinda fun to me - watching a nutjob go flying off the handle, screaming, right in front of a ton of people; because I politely contradicted their bizarre "Blacks should go back to Africa!" commentary.

It does 3 things.

1) It shows the obvious racist that they are NOT welcome. The majority of Americans really aren't racist. They may have some racial reservations - which I can understand, and try to educate people away from; but very few are actual racists.

To give an example, someone with racial reservations would be someone who doesn't actively dislike any particular group of people... but feels extremely 'funny' around them; tries not to form close relationships with people of differing races, and generally speaking tries to keep with 'their own'.

These people aren't racists however - they don't HATE others, they don't want to get rid of them; they're just nervous; and they have a lot of learned reasons to be. The learning is of course false; but for example, if you grew up in the 1950s, when racism was rampant, it'd be fairly natural to have some long lasting imprint on yourself about these things.

This isn't an excuse mind you; but one can educate someone who's just got a bit of a reservation about these things, rather than someone who's an out and out KKK nutbar.

2) The second thing confronting a racist does is expose them, not just as a racist (because this is likely already obvious) - but also as a loony. Not all racists are crazy mind you - there have been more than a few who've honestly 'seen the light' as it were... but; more than a few are genuinely unhinged, and most of them WILL fly off the handle when challenged.

This helps reinforce the negative view of racism most people have; because watching a guy running around yelling and screaming without making a lick of sense is a damn fine way for an opinion to invalidate itself.

3) It shows the non-racist way, by contrast, as being much more healthier and well adjusted. So long as you don't succumb to the urge to yell and scream back, you by contrast look rational, logical, and very in control.

In a sense you become a verbal matador.

There's also another reason for the matador reference:

If you are willing to confront someone over an issue like this; and I feel we do need to do this on the whole - you MUST know your footing.

For example, if your in a place you've never been in before; this might not actually be a good idea. For all you know this might be the local white supremacist hotspot. However if its a place you frequent, and are known in, if it comes to blows you can most likely be sure that at LEAST you won't have everyone else piling in on you; and you may even have some assistance.

So I guess my point, is that confronting racism and hatred is a duty every one of us should take up when possible, especially because it has a lot of possible benefits for those around you.

But just the same, the people you'll encounter are not going to be thrilled with your interference; especially because your going to be sticking a big old branch of 'logic' between the spokes of their apple cart. Violence is a possibility, but something to be avoided at all costs.

Nevertheless thats why I mention about knowing where you are; confronting hate is important, having the guts to do it is critical - but being stupid about it won't help anything.

Oh, also - I hinted at it, but I didn't get explicit about it:

When confronting someone's racism: Do NOT get angry and start throwing around insults. This is what they EXPECT; and will NOT benefit your case at all. You need to be the calm at the center of the storm - going in screaming will make you look every bit as dumb as they will; in fact probably worse, since you're going to be instigating the situation.

Remain calm and rational. When the enemy states a demonstrably false point - counter it quickly, and with facts; no insults at all, merely the facts. Truth is the ultimate weapon against lies, and all that bigotry is is a giant pack of lies sold to people desperate to blame someone else for their problems.

And that was a lot of yammering; sorry. (If you can't tell, I've done this a few times myself; thankfully I've not been struck yet; and hopefully that trend will continue. But eff me if I didn't think it'd happen at least a couple of times.)

136 xoites defends Constitution Says: Sorry, you are talking about isulting people. You prefer “busting them up?”

Totally different circumstances and situtations. There is a BIG difference in what we were talking about.

No matter how easy it would be for me to walk up to every single person I hear TALKING about something I don't agree with and insult them, it's just not going to happen.

But, if I feel someone is in danger, like a girl being harassed in a bar, you can bet I'm going to bust the guy up. you don't prefer I let the guys do whatever they want to the girls.

That is why I find insults absolutely useless online. Most people that use them do so because they can't in real life and it gives them a feeling of power here.

By the way, I was wondering if anyone gets as many e-mail petitions like I do to sign? I must sign at least 3-4 or more petitions from unrelated groups a day for various causes. I ususally sign them all when I get home from work and then the next day, I'll have more to sign. It kind of makes you feel like a member of Congress after a while with everyone hitting you daily to support various causes.

yenehC hcaepmI @ 98: So, is water boarding only “enhance interrogation” and not torture because someone says so?

That’s the only point I’m making.

Well, I think you were trying to make more points than that, but okay. Water-boarding is torture. Torture is torture, regardless of what you call it. Abortion is abortion, and yes, it is also happens to be a medical procedure. Besides the issues of taste and consent, your analogy doesn't really work because proponents of reproductive freedom aren't claiming that when a women is getting an abortion she's "getting a routine exam," for instance. That's a little different than the Bush administration trying to lie to obscure their violations of the Constitution and the Geneva Conventions, but I hope I don't need to elaborate.

Really, what is your position? I'm a bit unclear, but you seem to be advocating that abortion should be made illegal. If so, please address the consequences of such a decision, as I mentioned earlier, that women will die as a result, as they did before, since they will still get abortions, for a variety of reasons. If making abortion illegal is not your position, please elucidate.

As for your comment @ 87, other commenters have already responded, but have you seriously never heard that response before? Of course it's the woman's choice, and hers alone. It's really the only practical decision, and the moral one as well. If she's part of a couple, ideally she will discuss it with her partner, but that's not something that can be legislated. Not only is it her body, but if the relationship is abusive, if she was raped, if she was a teen and her father raped her, she could be put in danger. It has to be her call.

As for your comment @ 117 about insulting language: do you realize you essentially said, back @ 47, that abortion is murder? I don't doubt you believe that. But you must be aware that many liberals strongly disagree. You've argued, essentially, that a woman shouldn't have control of her own body. If we go to consequences again, as I've mentioned before, you don't seem concerned that making abortion illegal again would result in the death of women, since you didn't respond to that part of my comment. Please elucidate if you're not arguing to outlaw abortion. Personally, as I've said before, your response or non-response to that question tells me how seriously I should take you. You've told Miss Kitty she has a choice to not get pregnant, despite the obvious fact that many women get pregnant without choosing it (rape, failure of contraception, etc). I'm not trying to be mean, but really, I'm a bit bewildered that you're either unaware of that fact or are choosing to ignore it. These are pretty central issues and facts to the whole abortion debate. Furthermore, making abortion illegal or keeping it legal is not a neutral decision like picking a flavor of ice cream. You're talking about significantly, intrusively affecting women's lives. I would suggest that it would be horribly for the worse, yet you seem blasé about that aspect. You've received plenty of substantive responses, even when mixed in with ad hominem language. Your tone on abortion has often been one of moral condemnation. Again, you're entitled to your feelings. But do you realize how that might come across, or has? Do you realize how it might come off that you yourself have marched up to someone you don't agree with and insulted them? Perhaps your own approach has been rather rude, or at least perceived as such?

Look, abortion is a hot button issue. It stirs up extreme emotions. I don't have the time to comment at C&L as much as I used to or would like, but by and large this is a community that respects reason and good argument (as well as good snark). Please understand that I'm also not claiming rhetorical purity here on my own part, and others can speak for themselves. But I would suggest that your approach yielded the results it did for a reason.

In any case, this comment is far too long, and it's far too late. I'll try to check in on the thread later, but Peace, all.