Romney Blasts Paul For Minimizing Iranian "Threat"
Download | play 
Download | play (h/t Heather)
At the FOX GOP snoozefest...er, debate, interesting moments were few and far between. But this moment does clarify exactly how disinterested the Republican party is on substantive discussion as opposed to mindless fear-mongering.
When Ron Paul points out that the whole trumped up Iranian speedboat threat in the Straits of Hormuz has a whole Gulf of Tonkin smell to it and that we need to be careful before posturing aggressively over a non-existent threat.
And Mitt Romney's reply?
I think Congresman Paul should not be reading as many of Ahmadinejad's press releases.
Nice. Why let pesky little things like facts get in the way, right, Mitt? Even though the Navy is backing down and saying the speedboats posed no threat and there's some question as to the voice on the recording, let's not stop fearmongering ourselves into a huge conflict with Iran too--all our dealings in the Middle East have worked out so well, haven't they?
(h/t The Aristocrats)
furst!
They are both creepy.
"no student visas from terrorist nations"-Ron Paul's immigration ad http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2T-iJKwskH4
It was only two debates ago that Mitt the Flip was whining to the other Republicans to stop the personal attacks.
Now Mitt launches personal attacks on Ron Paul. Flip-Flop!
For a supposedly brilliant businessman, this investment in the presidency is loss leader.
-GSD
Vampires for Mitt!
Iran is not a threat to anyone. When was the last time they attacked another country?
Republicans are liars and simply cannot be trusted.
The Mittens wants to nuke Iran. No doubt about that one...if we welcome Mitt into the White House...we can kiss our @sses good-bye.
I disagree!.
Romney is ACTUALLY....MINIMIZING the POWER of USA......
USA is the MOST POWERFUL NATION in the WORLD.......IF any......USA is MORE OF A THREAT to USA.
WE HAVE THE MILITARY MIGHT. WE HAVE THE BIGGEST ECONOMY IN THE WORLD THAT EXPANDS BEYOND THE BOUNDARIES OF OUR HUGE NATION.
FEAR has become the primary tool of the REPUBLICAN PARTY..........THEY ARE THE MESSENGERS of FEAR. THEY ARE THE COWARDS.
WE ARE THE a notion of the BRAVE and the FREE.
AMERICA .......act like it......
WE will not give-in to the power of FEAR but rather fight with the power by the willingness to do what is GOOD and RIGHT.
And Mitt Romney’s reply?
I think Congresman Paul should not be reading as many of Ahmadinejad’s press releases.
Ain't nobody reading Mitt's press releases anymore. I think he's jealous.
Proud American @ 8:
correction:
USA is more of a threat to IRAN than the other way around.
Bush the Liar @ 6:
Not in the last couple of centuries. It is certainly not out of the realm of imagination for a false flag attack "Remember the Maine"
The threat that don't exist?
http://www.docudharma.com/showDiary.do?diaryId=3710
Administration ‘Gets Smart’ on Claim of Iranian Speedboats
When will Mitt realize that echoing Chimpy's war will only make him look even more like the fool he is? He's nothing more than a
pompous stooge for the soon to be defeated republics.I kinda wish his 5 sons could be drafted,that'd shut his forever flapping
flip-flopping mouth.
Waving their oars at our battleships and mooning our sailors is going too far. How provocative can they get?
You can't really blame Romney, there's no way to win the GOP nomination without a little blatant pandering to the fear and loathing crowd.
Not that it seems to be doing him that much good.
Bush the Liar @ 6:
Actually Iran is a threat to peace everywhere. Don't get me wrong, we have no right to attack them. They do give money and arms to Hezbollah and they are financing insurgents in Iraq. The latter we've been told. But regardless if this administration has told us this or not it doesn't take a brain surgeon to know this. It's Iran Liberal or not. They want to see Americans dead. I'm liberal and I know this but but I think there are other ways to deal with Iran other than attacking them like conservatives want and making up stories. Something simple like...dialogue? Remember, we've had other enemies that we didn't use military force to gain a goal. But we still have conservatives in this country and they think the only way to deal things is death.
jitter @ 16:
exactly.
like any good comedien, mitt has to play to his audience.
Speedboat threat a fake? No problemo. Crocker and Petraeus report an increase in attacks using Iranian supplied weapons over the past 10 days. Squeezing the Bushies is like squeezing a water baloon.
Ron Paul is minimizing the threat that we pulled out of our ass? How un-American of him!!! Everybody is supposed to get on board, like the entire "liberal" media already has, and hype it up so enable us to bomb Iran when we want to. What??? Surely you don't want the smoking gun to be a mushroom cloud, do you?
Greg @ 17:
So they give money and arms to Hezbollah, which in the course of being attacked by Israel laid waste to large swaths of civilian neighborhoods and infrastructure in Lebanon, then they have their neighboring country of Iraq attacked and occupied by the United States, also seeing large swatchs of civilian neighborhoods attacked, bombed, and otherwise destroyed.
I doubt much of the world, and none of the Muslim world, views Iran and its allies as the threat. That (dis)honor goes to the United States and Israel.
Also, neither of those links appear to work.
Greg @ 17:
I'm sorry but it seems like you are reading and watching too much of the MSM news. Lots of the media news about Iran has been disproven. It doesn't make it go away. You have to remember, they have been lying to us.
Shockers! A rare posting on C&L that portrays Ron Paul in a positive light. Maybe there's some semblance of fairness and balance in the liberal blogosphere, after all. We can cross our fingers and hope...
Not that he is one, but does Ron Paul have a sign on his back saying I'm really in the DNC.
What ever happened to the 11th commandment, Never speak bad about another rePUG.
These guys are start showing up to their little debates with hard hats and knee pads.
billy bob tweed @ 24:
He is still a creep!
Here's another version of events from The Navy Times.
And, here's the translated test of what was said in the Iranian's video.
I find what showed up on the MSM news very fishy. I think Bush shouldn't be making so many threats and doing so much posturing for something that is at best, patched together. At worse, manipulating propaganda. They have made no bones about the fact that this administration wants war with Iran. They didn't hesitate to lie us into Iraq. Why would anyone be surprised at the same tactics being used again..? The timing of this 'incident' is too convenient to Bush's trip. This isn't a game. This is deadly serious with deadly consequences.
#27: text, not test.
Proof positive that Crooks and Liars is a left wing gate keeper. Is some of the info they provide important? Yes, very.
They never post any of the positive messages about Ron Paul.... I come here every day hoping to see some of the great things he has accomplished. But no.... Just a negative post....
They never any talk about the unconstitutional money system that turns control of our gov to outside interests.
Dems are fake... Reps are fake.... The message of Ron Paul is real.....He was my hero WAY before the run for pres... He was talking about corrupt money system in congress way before I understood how they control our gov and lives... I will continue to come to this site........ But it is a puppet site..... Just like FoxNews..... Rep against Dem... Two sides of the same coin... People must be at odds.. Fighting each other on many levels.... Thats how they get away with destroying our country.
odanny @ 21:
I doubt your last statement. I am agreeing with everything else you said. Israel is as much to fault for the conditions in the Middle East as Iran is as is Hezbollah, Hamas and the USA. Iran is escalating the situation as is the USA and Israel. You're looking at my point the wrong way. To view Iran as a non threat to this world is simply naive and by calling them a non threat is pandering to the left. You're taking my post the wrong way. AS I said, they're other ways other than attacking Iran. You can be against military action and still see a country as a threat. The Soviet Union was a threat for how many years to all of Europe and the USA? We never attacked them but you can't say they weren't a threat.
John McCain said in the same debate that he was tired of "trading burkas" with Muslim countries when Ron Paul said he would treat every Middle Eastern country equal and trade with all of them. Fred Thompson said we should send them to their virgins. These are suppose to be the moderate Republicans!
Why does Ron Paul have the courage to stand up to 5 Republicans throwing insults at him for a hour while Fox News trying to discredit him, but our Congress won't impeach Bush? Our frontrunners don't even have the courage to tell the truth when they are surrounded by people that agree with them.
Ron @ 23:
As I said, as a liberal, you are being naive by thinking Iran is not a threat to peace in the Middle East. I NEVER said we need to attack them. But you cannot deny that this country is controlled by religious freaks (the minority of the country) who want nothing but the destruction of the USA.
Somebody needs to blast Romney for hyping the Iranian "threat!" Remember, folks, Romney is on the record stating that he places a higher priority on "his right to be kept alive" (his words) than he does on protecting America's constitutional rights.
I don't support Ron Paul, but I watched that debate, and Ron Paul was the ONLY person on that stage that showed reasoning skills and demonstrated knowledge of issues and how things work, and offered clear answers and solutions. He is the ONLY one who actually answered questions directly instead of going off on rhetoric, canned soundbites, personal attacks and the rest of the garbage the others on that stage spewed.
Especially on the question of what did or didn't happen in the Strait of Hormuz. If I had to choose from someone that was standing on that stage, I would have had to say Ron Paul.
I couldn't believe how unprofessional the questioners were, and how rude and undignified the candidates were (except for Ron Paul). I couldn't believe my ears when I heard Huckabee start spouting scripture about how women should submit, and then ask if he could pass the plate..
The lowest moment for me was when Mitt Romney turned to Paul and said that he should stop reading Ahmadinejad's daily press reports.. I couldn't believe my ears.. None of those men have the skills, wisdom, experience, or temperament needed to lead this nation (of the GOP, only Ron Paul).
Again, I don't support Ron Paul.
Gary H @ 29:
Gary H ask yourself why no libertarion has been elected beyond where Mr Paul is now. Could it be because most people realize the nation and the people of this country would go down the tubes very soon without attention payed to the common good of the nation. If you are a libertarian how do you expect to get the road with out a highway system or go without pure food laws or the Laws that protect individuals in society.
And he still is a Crook!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QKjhNa6PGLk
Includes the part FOX cut from the rebroadcast, where Ron Paul is asked if he is electable!
Although I don't agree with everything Ron Paul says, he is the only republican candidate with any intelligence and much of what he says is correct and factual. The other republican candidates and fox noise hate him because he knows the facts, and as you know republicans can't stand facts. He owned that last Fox noise debate. He received the most applause and won the Fox polls (again) at the same time the fox noise chart spinner was turning the applause chart upside down after the debate trying to spin everyone into believing the lines on the graph went straight down when Paul answered the questions. Good for Ron Paul for standing up to them!
I teach music(guitar) on friday's in Dana Point California, and was chatting about Dr. Paul with one of my bro's at the school, when a young violen student, her father and her uncle came in. They perked in interest to our conversation. And it was obvious
that here in SoCal Dr. Paul's message is sympatheticly vibrating with people's dissatisfied overtones. When I mentioned some of the odd number's in New Hampshire they said "aww not this shit again..." so obviously more mainstream.
Mitt - "Come on Ron! We have to scare people to get them to vote for us. Get with the program!"
Ron Paul - "If I want to scare people all I have to do is talk about my domestic agenda."
Mitt - "True".
What did you expect from Mr. "Double Guantanamo?"
Romney is a douche bag.
natisman @ 26:
No shit!
Ron Paul is a racist creep.
John McCain is a straight-shooting maverick.
Rudy Giuliani is the hero of Sept. 11.
Mitt Romney is a member of a cult.
Hillary Rodham Clinton is a manipulative witch (who ordered a hit on Vince Foster).
Barack Mohammed Hussein Obama was tutored in a madrassa.
John Edwards is a $400 haircut.
Joe Lieberman is a Democrat.
Love these Fox News narratives! Keep 'em comin'...
What a bunch of deranged mofos. Every last one of them. And God botherers to boot. Where's all that smiting He used to do?
Gary H @ 29:
Ron Paul is still a Republican, no matter what his "message" happens to be.
Sarah @ 43:
Lieberman.
I am willing to bet that Obama's response would be identical to Romneys.
Fritz @ 37:
Ron Paul is a true Republican, which is why I shudder to think what would happen to this nation if he ever became President - and I'm talking on BOTH the international and domestic front. Libertarian philosophy usually doesn't translate into reality very well.
Sarah @ 43:
You've bought into Rupert Murdoch, Roger Ailes and Karl Rove's phony left-right paradigm. Nero's tuning up the fiddle, and I'm luvin' it!
Hahahahaha........heeheeheeheehee.......sorry...hahahaha....how can ANYBODY take ANYTHING seriously that comes from someone named MITT???!???
Brad @ 44:
Attacked for being a conservative Democrat, which is shameful.
prospero @ 47:
Uh, did you miss the debates or what? Ron Paul refuses to run as an independent and has declared himself a Republican time after time.
Sarah @ 46:
example?
Gary H @ 29:
I think John tries to be fair, and obviously everyone of us has a bias. He's said what he's for and it's his site soo....
Go to the Ron Paul Forums and you'll get a bit more deliberation on substanative issue's.
Controlled opposition groups riding the emotional tribalism of partisanship. People are seeing beyond it.
milquetoast @ 51:
"Libertarians are self-governors in both personal and economic matters. They believe government's only purpose is to protect people from coercion and violence."
Having said that, how can someone that is Libertarian run for President? It's against his beliefs.
prospero @ 47:
Did you use a dart board and darts with that last sentence, cuz it do not make too much sense. Oh I forgot your probably a Livertarian!
Sarah @ 46:
please tell us sharon what "usally" happens when libertarian philosophy "becomes reality"
Mitt is the plastic , phoney ,predictable , scripted , fear-monger , poll-watching , ....did I say phoney....you get my drift. IMPEACH the CHIMP NOW .
Allrighty...to all you Goebellian peep's that insist on calling Ron Paul a racist I challenge you to go to and listen to
any of his 3 minute monlogues on WHY RON PAUL IS NOT A RACIST http://www.youtube.com/profile?user=getonid
But if you wanna get your name callin on I'm down..
Democrat's=Capitualing Cowards
Democrat's=Sniveling Snipey Spineless Sellouts(FISA,MC,Kyle/Liebermna,Patriot Act's I, II, Funding for Genocide)
Talcott @ 58:
Um....libertarians do not believe in social programs or government programs that help entire groups and not themselves. So with that in mind, why the hell would someone that does not believe in that system, want to be top dog in that system? What, is he going to dismantle social programs? That would be a nightmare.
No surprise Romney would try to defeat reason with fearmongering nonsense. He's even more clueless and aggressive about the Middle East than Bush.
His "Nuclear terrorism" page on his campaign website looks like an attack Iran propaganda piece with a big map of Irans nuclear facilities in the centre. "The Romney plan" (I guess his Middle East policy?) is just a list of demands to Iran, Palestine and the Arab states to support USA and Israel or face the consequences. Not one word about Pakistan or IAEA
Scary, scary image of Mitt. http://www.myrtlebeachonline.com/724/gallery/307499-a307482-t2.html
While you're there, check out some of the other scary sandy republicans.
Ron Paul is not likely to get any votes from Democrats so why all the hating? All he is doing with his foreign affairs stance is speaking the truth.
Sarah @ 50:
Uh, did you miss the last election? Joe Lieberman ran as a VP candidate and has declared himself a Democrat time after time.
Gary H @ 29:
"Left wing gatekeeper." Libertarian meme, it's wearing thin. Worn out. It's like canned music. Same crap over and over again.
This is not a Libertarian site. And if you'll actually take the time to read the policy on commenting, there IS a claim in there that this is not a neutral site. And there's not much positive to post about Ron Paul-other than he walks upright-if that's a plus.
Here's a thought-why don't you Paulbots take all the energy you're flinging willy-nilly around the internets and start your "Nothing but positive posts about St Ron Paul" website. You could call it "Schnooks (as in the people who follow RP are 'Schnooks') and Buyers" (as in the people who follow RP are 'buying into the bullshit')
"Schnooks & Buyers." You can have that one. You can also razz and insult anyone who drops by to disagree and post long rambling tributes to the dude.
grab up some Decartes. You might not figure out why any Cartesian thinker would call bullshit on Ron Paul, but maybe you'll get just enough insight and or common sense to figure out why non-Libertarian sites aren't posting that the sun shines out his backside, and why some sites have banned you crybabies outright.
You're (Paulistas) annoying and have little to add to the conversation. Can't say fairer than that.
Take it easty on Mitt. He's the one we want on the republican ticket.
Concerned Canuck
Your paradigm is false, Does Ron have to behave in a way that is congruent with your interpetation of a political philosophy?
It seem's to me that no one is as strict adherent behavioraly to any one system we are free moral agent's and it is our decisions
in the now that matter most. People whom I have exposed to his interview's in non hostile enviornment(like the recent
Paul/Kucinich program sadly not covered by C&L) typicly comment( and the majority of these people are relatively uninformed)
"wow that guy make's sense".
Speaking of 'threats' to the US, why is no one discussing Monaco's demand that if they don't receive $1.625B immediately, they're going to cut off our ambassador's credit in the Casino?
prospero @ 41:
You might have added that Dennis Kucinich shook hands with space aliens.
I don't normally resort to ad hominem attacks, but ... I'm sorry I can't help myself this time. Romney's an idiot.
Miss Kitty
Is this your site?
Last time I checked it was John Amato's,
why do you never engage any Paul supporter's in a conversation on the issue's they raise?
Proud American @ 8:
No Fear :)
milquetoast @ 56:
I think the livertarian thing is to say a few feet ahead of every one else when de livertarian thing becomes becomes reality.
Mitt will say anything to get elected, Ron Paul is approaching the danger (see senility) age (I can't stress enough that everyone remember Reagan).
Who gives a shit what either of them has to say?
Well, this is all the Repukes have to offer, FEAR! Mitt, Rudy won't be happy until all American's cower in fear. After all it worked for Bush and Chaney in.2004.
link is down again.
[Thanks. I just let the link fixers know-Sitemonitor]
ConcernedCanuck @ 59:
I don't think it's fair that you are using extremist examples of libertarian philosophy in order to support your points.
that's like saying all liberals want to have social programs for everything from how to eat to subsidies for simply being nice to people.
Your example gives absolutley no thought to the money individuals would save if the people were allowed to keep their money, rather than give it to the government in order to waste on "USELESS" programs... like the dept of education, or the IRS. It's not about stripping people in need from necessary programs, it's about making the requirements for these programs tighter... so the people who need them have them, and the people who pay taxes to support them, save more money.
but I guess it depends on which economic theory you subscribe too... i personally am more laissez fair, and I believe that the market should be left alone, unregulated, and it will end up working itself out. I disagree with the Kensington theory which states that the market should have oversite by the government.
Swear Bear on Ron Paul
An Aussie Wombat who's had enough of Ron Paul spammers. (Warning: Vulgar)
Gary H @ 29:
Gary, surely you jest. This is not a news organization. It is a web site that debunks the phoney news that the MSM puts out. Since the MSM puts out more negative news against the dems, this site debunks mostly news in the MSM. Wake up and try to figure it out.
i guess mitt gets confused with a non-threat near iran and his stooping more than one wife at a time.
Bush the Liar @ 6:
Look. The bigger danger is when Repubs become sure to lose the coming elections they will turn fear mongering into actual bombing. And that will be goodbye to peace for generations to come. What Mitt accused Ron Paul was not so dreadful as the applaud it earned from the crowd. Unless God has signed in the neo-con column He should instil some sense in the these morons.
Sarah @ 43:
And your opinionion is collectivist, whish is same philosophy racisim and anti semitisim stems from.
There is a difference between a republican and a neo-conservative. Bush is a Neo-con, rudy is a neo-con, Mitt is a neo-con, paul is a republican.
How can anyone take anythign Bush says seriously?
Is our collective memories that short? Never mind iran, Cuba, N Korea or Iraq as target for Bush and his false fear mongering and bravado.
We can look at his record with China and see how tall he really stands..
Funny, at beginning of the Shurbs term, I seem to recall china holding americans soldiers captive after their spy plane had to make emergency landing after a chinese fighter clipped its wing playing cat mouse with it over international waters.
The two years ago off of Taiwan, a chinese sub surfaced provocatively within strike distance of an American aircraft carrier, effectively telling America we are not afraid of you.
Both of these were more provocative than what Iran is accused of in its own waters.
How that war with China coming?
Oh yeah, they are financing our war with Iraq.
ConcernedCanuck @ 59:
Our american social security system is already a (dismantled)nightmare.
Americans social security fund has been plundered (for foriegn wars)and is empty...(so is fort knox)
The dollar is losing value so fast when i'm eligible to collect my social security check a loaf of bread will be five bucks...
I used to be more socialistic but now?
social programs...from my federal govt?...I dont trust the governmet to do shit anymore...I dont think they are here to help us...
I quit payin my taxes... they are just used for war anyway (I'm gonna take care of myself now)...
IdahoMoe @ 2:
Are any candidates worthy? The repuglickends should be kicked in the balls for all eternity for the hurt they have brought on this nation. The Spinelesscrats should be pimp slapped until the next millennium for allowing the Repug’s get away with it. I say divine intervention is needed; sink Washington into the Ocean and let’s start fresh.
Philip @ 82:
Ahhh I get it now!!!!!Kucinich and Gravel are democrats and Hillary Obama and Edwards are Neo libs right!
milquetoast @ 84:
See, social programs wouldn't be a bad thing, if they were properly instated like france's health care system.
But here, in america, where we have useless govt programs like homeland security, that do everything short strip searching old women before they board an air plane... we need to do MAJOR restructuring... which is why I am going to be voting paul.
If america was a computer... we'd be freezing and locking up right now... all of our resources taken up, and instead of cleaning out the useless crap, we just borrow more resources.... Paul is the reset button which will allow us to start over.
milquetoast @ 86:
not at all, but I still wouldn't trust anybody from the CFR to run the country... every time we elect a member of this group we always get the same shit in a different color, and find out that we've been lied to just for our vote. I'm sick of it. I actually like Obama's and edward's Ideas, I just have no idea how they plan to finance them... we are flat broke... so it just doesn't make sense to me, therefore makes me suspicious.
Hear that crowd? An audible portion of that *Republican* crowd saw the similarity between the recent 'incident' with Iran and the Gulf of Tonkin. These guys are really against the ropes if they can't get a mandate from the people who still call themselves Republicans.
If you watch and listen to the debate, Romney was roundly booed for making this remark.
Philip @ 87:
I like that...
...a constitutional reset button....!!! ...that should be a slogan...
push the contitutional reset button! vote for Ron Paul...
I like it!
Philip @ 88:
I think Edwards and Obama both have said that they would cut military spending. That in itself would provide plenty of money for universal health. Why don't you go to his website and educate yourself on his programs. You might just be surprised.
mitt is a titt!
Ron @ 92:
But they still would not commit to bringing our troops home before 2013... I don't think there are any suprises about it. Paul is the only one, aside from Kuchinich and Gravel, who would commit to bringing the troops home immediatley.
As soon as we move an aircraft carrier close to Iran shore, the Iranians will make an aggressive move with their squadron of paper airplanes, and BANG!!, before you know it, NUKULAR WAR.
We've got to make sure all the religiously fanatical, irresponsively aggressive, unlawful, despotic governments, are prevented from acquiring nuclear weapons, or, if they possess them, are disarmed.
We should start with the US and Israel.
Philip @ 76:
Enron, Worldcom, Tyco. And before them there were the robber barons the Rockefellers, JP Morgans, and Vanderbilts.
Yes the "market" worked itself out just fine...
Thing Fish @ 96:
Enron, Worldcom, Tyco. And before them there were the robber barons the Rockefellers, JP Morgans, and Vanderbilts.
Yes the "market" worked itself out just fine...
typical kensington subscriber... wants all results to be immediate, and then provides examples of greedy companies. You can't stop greedy companies from emerging, you can however expect them not to last in a market free from govt interference.
So here is exactly what many "liberals" would be saying about the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan verging as well on Iran and yet Dr. Paulis so often attacked here. In fact he is in a perfect position to debunk the whole Republican warminging myth precisely because he is Republican. Any liberal like Dennis Kusinich, who Dr Paul spoke glowingly of as someone if integrity who has stood by him on many issues, can easily be discredited as "just a liberal", but with Dr. Paul there, the excuse for war looks shakier and shakier every day. I expect the powers that be are very uncomfortable with that message being repeated by Dr Paul.
Incidentally, yesterday Dennis Kusinich applied for a Democrat recount and a little known black candidate for President, Albert Howard I believe, applied for a recount of the Republican numbers. Kusinich identified the anomolies between polls and results as the reason for his application, he felt the integrity of the vote was central here and needed to do this even though he wouldn't benefit personally.
This I would subscribe is a massive issue, yet I don't see any indication of this story in CrooksandLiars anywhere. Why is that? If my post gets pulled, it will make me very curious of whether this site is as much an influence shifter as it is information source, picking and choosing items to focus on that fit its agenda. Isn't this what it accuses Fox and other "right wing" programming, but I guess if they do it, it's OK. If it doesn't get pulled, people should be checking this story out and ask why the mainstream media, and CrooksandLiars, are not mentioning this at all. Could it be that the story really doesn't fit with the plotline desired? By either side?
Greg @ 30:
No. The Soviets were never a threat. They simply wanted security after three motherfucking invasions in a row, which happened to come through Eastern Europe allthreetimes. The United States was a nation that was (and still is) stuck on a war economy, and it needed a threat to justify keeping the economy on a wartime basis. There was old Joe Stalin, the mustached Russkie (never mind that he was Georgian) and he was attempting to secure the USSR's borders and he had a huge army. The Russians are scared to death of the former Warsaw Pact having joined NATO, and Barbarossa has left a deep scar in their country, nearly as deep as the War of the Triple Alliance did in Paraguay. The Russians don't like us, and they have reasons.
What happened? We made the Soviets our enemies. We divided the entire world, held it in a balance of terror, damn near provoked the USSR into nuclear war twice, once under a Democrat, once under Reagan, and then when the USSR collapsed, we applauded ourselves, yet there was still the little issue of the wartime economy.
Hence Islamic Fundamentalism became the bugaboo.
Watch how in 10 years it will be Red China as the bugaboo and old Cold War rhetoric will return.....
It's like that some low-level Iranian sent that message as a joke and it was clearly used by the admin to generate anti-iranian news. Are they our friends? No. Are they supplying Shiites in Iraq with weapons and stoking ethnic cleansing? Probably. Are they above supporting an attack on US forces through a proxy force? Probably not.
But youve got US ships a few miles off the Iranian coast, not Iranian boats cruising Lake Michigan (after occupying Canada and Mexico) so you need a pretty solid casus belli before starting a pissing match.
Okay NOW the fucking clip works, thanks for that.
Well, I get so goddammned mad to not hear spontaneous applause from the audience, I seriously do not understand how any of the people in that audience do not understand the importance of what Paul is saying. To hear Romney come on with that retort and smirk, to say nothing of the shot of McCain groaning (thats good camera work, its nice to see John is disgusted by reality) shows that the ignorance goes out far beyond the Beltway. Where is the media in reporting the shrieks from Bush AFTER he knew of the NIE report (not released to the public) which stated Iran had no WMD/Nookes and only Olbermann talks about this?
We want to stop WWIII!!! (heh heh heh.....smirk......shrug)
Philip @ 97:
typical kensington subscriber... wants all results to be immediate, and then provides examples of greedy companies. You can't stop greedy companies from emerging, you can however expect them not to last in a market free from govt interference.
What is "Kensington theory"? Or who/what is Kensington?
Fear, fear, fear fear. Be fearful, be fearful. You are scared now, you are scared now. Be very very afraid! Be very very afraid.
This is the only thing these assholes have up their sleeves.
Talcott @ 70:
Did I say it was my site, either directly or by implication?
Am I not allowed to express an opinion here?
Am I required to engage in certain discussions? Because you or someone else says I must?
Is it YOUR site? Last time I checked it was John Amato's, and I've seen nothing in the commenting policy that requires I engage with certain people. Have you taken over and made new rules?
Do tell.
Talcott @ 70:
Probably the same reason as everyone else. He doesn't have a snowball's chance in an oven of being elected. His own party hates him. Sooooooooo.......why bother?
Moose @ 102:
I'm probably misspelling the hell out of it... but it's an economic theory that macro economics take presedence over micro economics and that active govt policy should manage the ecconomy. I believe the market should be a free market, unlike the one we have.
Philip @ 106:
No problem, Phillip. I just wanted to point out that you had no clue what you were talking about.
ConcernedCanuck @ 105:
Bingo! And I have. I gave it up. Not a lick of common sense among the lot of them. JMHO. I have better things to do with my time.
Is it ok that I say that Talcott, or have you got a rule against it?
Moose @ 107:
no problem, glad you failed :)
miss_kitty @ 108:
It's tragic that RuPaul is getting so neglected by the media, not to mention Edwards, not to mention Kucinich, not to mention................etc, etc.........but if they don't have a chance of winning at all, why bother harping about them constantly? You aren't going to convince voters if that is what they are trying to do.
Philip @ 109:
and yes I misspelled the hell out of it... it's Keynesian
Fear, fear, fear, fear, fear, and ..... for good measure, fear. I am more afraid of rightwing Republicans than I am of any terrorist.
ConcernedCanuck @ 110:
Yeah. If I were to have a life changing epiphany about Ron Paul, it would be that he's worse than I thought. I don't care to discuss stupid crap with people who use stupid crap as a bludgeon.
Moose @ 107:
It's Keynesian economics, and it is what led to the economic boom in the 1950s-1960s, and as a corollary, stagflation from the bust of the market due in part to Detente, due in part to 'Nam, due in part to the aftermath simply of a long economic boom and the fact that nothing lasts forever, and a whole raft of other things. Since Ford and Carter happened to be in office while the worst of it hit, they got the shaft.
The real problem with the US economy is that it's run on a wartime basis, has been since 1941, and there's no enemy to fight, and that any attempt to demilitarize the US economy would cause us to slip right back into the Depression.
Philip @ 97:
typical kensington subscriber... wants all results to be immediate, and then provides examples of greedy companies. You can't stop greedy companies from emerging, you can however expect them not to last in a market free from govt interference.
Where did I state I "wants all results to be immediate"?
I gave you example how people behave when greed is a motivating factor. And then you fall back on the canard that the greed and corruption exhibited by those in the market wouldn't happen if the government didn't interfere.
A true free market is as much a fantasy as a communist worker's paradise. Or do you have an real world example beyound economic theory that it would work?
Ron Paul only sort of got it right on the Gulf of Tonkin incident. At the time America was already in Vietnam. America had been in Vietnam since the mid-50's. The Gulf of Tonkin provided an excuse for increasing America's involvement.
Philip @ 97:
typical kensington subscriber... wants all results to be immediate, and then provides examples of greedy companies. You can't stop greedy companies from emerging, you can however expect them not to last in a market free from govt interference.
immediate results? capitalism, my friend, has been around for more than a century.
can't stop greedy companies? it is in the NATURE of a corporation to be greedy. Otherwise, their greedier rival would kill them off.
oh wait, that already happened.
at the very, very least, thank goodness for whatever government interference there is to put at least some of those crooks in jail.
bah.
General_Rennenkampf @ 114:
Refer to post 111
and demilitarization causing a slip into depression is based on the assumption that we would have the same expendatures demilitarized as we do now.
natisman @ 26:
Very intelligent. Just call someone a creep. Nice.
Thing Fish @ 115:
I'll give you one when you can give me an example of when centralized control of a nations economy has ever resulted in anything BUT political repression.
Romney managed to show once again just why people do not like him, trust him, or more recently vote for him. The guy is a classless yuppie who reminds me more and more of a Lexus dealer then a presidential candidate. I am no Ron Paul fan but what the man has gone through, at the hands of his fellow GOP candidates is sick. Mitt will lose in Michigan, and it will be a safe bet that his run will be all but done with.
www.HyerStandard.com
reyvn @ 117:
People who give up liberty for a little bit of security deserve neither liberty nor security. I'd prefer if people stood up and boycotted a greedy company's products, rather than relying on the government to solve all of our problems.
reyvn @ 117:
and why the hell are you assuming that I don't know the origin's of capitalisim? I was originally defending laziese fare: free trade and no intervention.
Philip @ 120:
And now I'm wanting "centralized control of a nations economy"? Where did I say that?
I compared a truely free market with the communist ideal. Both are utopian and unrealistic. Why should I need to provide a example of something I held up as an example of a state that has not, and in my opinion can never exist?
In every language, the first word after "Mama!" that every kid learns to say is "Mine!" A system that doesn't allow ownership, that doesn't allow you to say "Mine!" when you grow up, has -- to put it mildly -- a fatal design flaw.
It's also a fatal design flaw not to keep this human drive in check.
This is exactly why Michigan Democrats should vote Ron Paul in the primary on the 15th just this once, since Michigan's delegates have been stripped away and it'll be the best way to influence the Republican race. Even if you don't like Ron Paul, if he wins it'll mean in 2008 a choice between an anti-Iraq war Repub and an anti-Iraq war Dem. Either way that means out of Iraq.
Thing Fish @ 124:
I agree moderation is necessary... where we are diverging is our opinion on economics. I am confused as to how a free market would not keep that human desire in check? you are limited by the amount of resources you have, and your resources are directly proportional to your contributions to society, this is why you have different prices.. you're not going to pay the same for a shoe as you would for a computer. As I said, allow the market to work it out... you're assuming that's an idealistic approach, by polarizing communisim with capitalizim. If you are going to polarize communisim with something, do it with fascisim.
Philip @ 120:
1941-1981 in the USA. Shabam!
General_Rennenkampf @ 127:
yea nevermind the civil rights movement lol.
Philip @ 122:
That may work. People could get together as individuals. Vote on issues and elect personss to present and promote their views and protect themselves from the excesses of a few.
Something like a representative government...
without sounding like too much of a conspiracy cook, what are the odds that the Fox people were turning down Ron Paul's monitor intentionally? I'd probably wager at least 5 bucks...
Thing Fish @ 129:
That may work. People could get together as individuals. Vote on issues and elect personss to present and promote their views and protect themselves from the excesses of a few.
Something like a representative government...
that would be GREAT if lobyists were purged from existance.
golly-gee @ 68:
Mike Huckabee is Gomer Pyle.
Some people can not make themselves look good unless they can make others look bad.
Mitt,, what does he do when someone tells the truth? Tries to make them look bad.
When Paul tells the truth all the other candidates get this hateful demonic look on their faces and then deride him. When people ridicule the truth,,, you have to wonder how much truth is in them.
Give A Shit
Vote Mitt.
I'm not gay, but I'd totally do him.
Ian McGarrett @ 116:
Except there WAS NO Gulf of Tonkin incident.. It was just a made up fabrication, to as you said provide an excuse to get fully into the arms sales,,, I mean war.
Smoke Gets In Your Eyes @ 132:
lol @ Fox calling Ron Paul a racist creep.
Like Black people watch Fox news? lmao
having Ron Paul on a Fox debate was excellent. Fox arranged skewed questions that were also swipes at Paul but he manage to answer them truthfully and honestly and made Fox look stupid in the process and exposed allot inconvenient truths to Fox viewers.
yarply @ 133:
Lot of that ridiculing the truth going on on this site too, seems to me.
Hillary, Edwards and Obama all look like Bush lite (No options off the table with Iran, fund all Bush wars, no impeachment, etc.)
I knew this post would become a Paulbot circle-jerk.
I'm going to be so happy when Racist Ron doesn't get the nomination and drops out. I'm going to build a raft that day, and sail upon the blood and tears of the despondent Paulbots as they realize their horrid little dream of a corporate-run, misogynist, racist, demi-anarchist country is over.
I'm going to just LOVE that day. The tears of Paul cultists taste like sweet, sweet candy to me.
So, Paul cultists, have you owned up to your idol being a racist douchebag yet? OR is that too close to reality for you?
Think it is time for Mitt the Nit Wit to go door to door! Maybe Huckster could go along!
Philip @ 136:
But it's not African-Americans or other minorities foaming at the mouth and throwing racism grenades at Paul and his supporters. It's mostly finger-pointing eager-to-be-offended rush-to-judgment white liberals and neocon attack dogs. Check youtube for the numerous testimonials from minorities in support of Ron Paul, and be sure to read Stewart Rhodes' "I am a Mexican-American, I worked for Ron Paul in the 1990’s, and I Know that Ron Paul is No Racist!"
.
Miss Kitty
Why come to thread about Paul and bitch about their being Paul supporter's there.....?
MK:Did I say it was my site, either directly or by implication?
Yeah by commanding people whom you disagree with to go elsewhere.
MK:Am I not allowed to express an opinion here?
Did say that or imply that you couldn't....no.
MK:Am I required to engage in certain discussions?
No, but since your not interested in civil discourse, so be it
Because you or someone else says I must?
No bossing around here, I believe a question was poised a WHY, why is a query do you get that?
Is it YOUR site?
Nope, and I have nor ever will TELL someone else what to do here.
MK:Last time I checked it was John Amato's, and I've seen nothing in the commenting policy that requires I engage with certain people. Have you taken over and made new rules?
Once again who is the Authoritarian? Please point me to the "rules" I have posted.
I get that you loathe, deeply, and currently the object of hatred is Dr. Paul and the people that care to support him.
I would rather have a conversation and if it is with someone whom I disagree with so the better I may learn something
I do not fear diversity of opinion. I do not enjoy silly poo throwing, which is what oft happens at C&L by a small portion
of regulars, not the majority. Soooooooo if you come to a thread about Ron Paul and whine about their being people whom
support him there, and start bossing them around then I will take umbridge with that.
So what will the Dem's do this fall for the 4th amendment this year?
Do tell.
ConcernedCanuck @ 105:
Becuase I believe many of his idea's need to be in the public forum.
That debate was more like the night of the living dead. And Mitt, go eat shit you absolute fake mother fucker. If you're the Repub candidate Mitt, it's a fucking white flag. When you do tell the truth, I don't believe your ass! Nab Rudy as your VP..... Perfect combo.
miss_kitty @ 108:
Seek Help
Tell me, Paulbot, what will Paul do for the 16th amendment?
OH, right, he's going to repeal it. As part of his plan to set this country back a hundred and fifty fucking years.
Racist Ron is RACIST.
Sarah @ 43:
Exactly! Why go to the effort of actually examining candidates and issues when you already know, right?
Still, it seems that thimble deep analysis of the issues and candidates is failing many, and coupled with election irregularities -- which could indicate electoral fraud which has happenned in the past -- just think of John Kerry in Ohio, 2004 -- many are looking for more than just fixed positions and wafer thin analysis based on pre-determined political spin. You, however, represent that remaining 20% who could watch Obama or Hillary killing babies and you would still support them "because at least they aren't Republicans."
But that just highligts how narrow minded, intellectually lazy and intolerant of others views you are, and as twisted in your own way any neocon even is. And as well, you represent what is wrong with America today. Until the American people can have open and honest discussions where people are even able to hear each other, America will never deal with all the issues facing it.
billy bob tweed @ 24:
You do realize we know he is up against a bigger douche here right?
Mitt's shtick is SO PLAYED OUT. Typical 4th grader pandering with 4th grader logic aimed at... yes... you got it, folks, most of whom have about a 4th grade education....
calhouba @ 130:
As a sound engineer it was obvious the mixing board was being played like piano.
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